Thinking of a flipup modular helmet?

Who has one and what do you like about it or dont?

HispanicSlammer, May 15 2006, 11:41 PMWho has one and what do you like about it or dont?

I had a Bieffe. As it 'broke in' it got larger until it was too big.

Then had a Nolan. They don't 'break in'. Buy the size you need. The newer ones have a one hand opening latch. The older ones say they take two hands, but with practice you can do it with one.

Then had a Schuberth Concept. Great helmet. I liked the internal visor. Absolutely great for dealing with sunshine. It was noisy. It had a real thick neck roll that gave me a huge headache on my ZX7R.

Then had an HJC Symax. Still have it. Actually have two of them. Works well for me. Fairly quiet on a VFR. The only thing I would change is to add the internal visor like the Schuberth.

hth,

Motor Ref, are you a bike courier? goofy.gif

I've worn a flip-up (think it was a Nolan) while riding as a pillion, and I quite enjoyed it. However, as pillion, wind noise is not quite the deciding factor that it is as a rider, and also I had both hands free to lift the chinbar at will.

I think I'd seriously consider one as my regular lid, though - it's very practical.

I'd look at the BMW System 4 (or are they up to 5 now?) before I committed to buying one.

[quote=The Phantom,May 15 2006, 11:54 PM]
> Motor Ref, are you a bike courier? goofy.gif

[/quote]

No. I used to be an official for the United States Cycling Federation or USA Cycling or whatever they call themselves now. Same for the ACA or whatever it is called now that used to be the Bicycle Racing Association of Colorado.

Once in a while it was necessary to "address" someone about their riding. 491.gif

>I've worn a flip-up (think it was a Nolan) while riding as a pillion, and I quite enjoyed it. However, as >pillion, wind noise is not quite the deciding factor that it is as a rider, and also I had both hands
> free to lift the chinbar at will.
>
>I think I'd seriously consider one as my regular lid, though - it's very practical.
>
>I'd look at the BMW System 4 (or are they up to 5 now?) before I committed to buying one.

[/quote]

I don't think you get BMW System helmets in the US anymore. But I think you can still get them in Germany. I also think that they are made by Schuberth. Schuberth is now on their Concept 2 or something like that. I saw one in a BMW store last weekend. I still remember the pain from the headaches so I didn't touch it. sad.gif

I had a HJC Symax. It's was a descent helmet. Wind noise was pretty bad (not that it really matters with earplugs in, but it was noticeable).

I read a review somewhere about flip-up helmets and the problem with theirr tendacy to "roll-off" your head. Since modular helmets are basically 3/4 shell helmets, they don't have the check padding that you find in full face helmets. Therefore, you need to check the helmet for "roll-off" when trying them on. You'll probably find some helmets are quite snug and others that aren't. Just make sure you check them for "roll-off".

Here's the review I read: http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/accessori...met_comparison/

My only extended experience with "modular" helmets is with my System 2 BMW/Schuberth helmet I bought for riding my Hawk GT in 1988. It served me OK, and I found it very convenient being that I wear glasses. The flip up front feature makes it easy to put on and remove my glasses at any time. I did worry a lot about the seemingly flimsy construction of the flip-up jaw section of the helmet and the questionable stregnth of the latching mechanism if I ever got into a crash. The Helmet was also very heavy and could present some problem with possible neck hyperextension in a crash IMO. The shield material was also too thin to provide any protection of objects penetrating the helmet through the front if you do a head plant type of crash as Lauren Hutton the model found out a few years ago with a borrowed BMW System 2 helmet. She rode her bike off the road in the Vegas desert and badly injured herself in the crash and when her co riders rescued her, her helmet was full of gravel which tore up her face and almost suffocated her.
I considered switching over to the Shoei Syncrotech when they came out, but I still found the swiveling front part of that helmet to be flimsy compared to non-modular full face helmets. It was also heavy.
I checked out the Schuberth Concept 1 when they first came out in the states and found the overall structure and front locking mechanism to be a big improvement but the enormous size of the helmet shell and the very heavy weight again made me pass on it.
Despite of some major improvements in modular helmet design by the manufacturers, I think modular helmets will never be able to perform as well or better than regular full face helmets because of the inherent weaknesses in their designs and the heavier weights. Anyway, If you could just get used to regular helmets, you shouldn't bother with them. That what I ended up doing. I shifted wholly to regular full face helmets and I don't think I'll ever look back to modular helmets. I want the highest levels of protection for my head when I ride out there. JMO!

Beck
95 VFR

I had an HJC (I think) one for me and my lady and have since switched to standard full faces. They were very noisy, and after reading about their test records, and how Snell won't rate them, I was concerned from a safety stand point. The noise was caused from were the shield met the top part of the helmet, when it clicked down there were still some places around the top seal that didn't touch, letting wind and water in. The water thing goes even further, around the whole seam, water came in unless you were traveling pretty quick.

Now the good parts, very easy to put on and get off, and when cruising through slow small towns, you could click the face up and get a full face of cool refreshing air.

For me, I couldn't justify it for the good parts over the bad parts, not even mentioning about price.

I have a Caberg Justissimo on order from Aerostich. Similar to the Schuberth helmet, with an internal sun shade, yet less expensive. I did a significant amount of research prior to making this choice and I expect to be pleased as long as the fit is correct. I have not used a modular helmet though I have looked at a number of different brands and spoke to people who have used them. I should have it in hand tomorrow and I will add a comment after a couple of days of use. BTW, my current helmet is a Shoei XSP (a handfull of years old).

I had the HJC, and I liked it.

If I was to buy another one, I would get a Roof.

The Roof flip-up helmet is not something most people on this site would go for, but it looks really different (fighter pilot style).

It would be good for city commute style riding.

For me, my Arai is to good to seriously think about get something else.

I have a HJC Symax Modular helmet. I wear glasses so that is the main reason I purchased modular. The fit is excellent, however there is wind noise and a neck curtain can't be fitted because the helmet "flips up". I like the removable liner and the ear pads. I used the ear pads as a base for speakers and that puts the speakers close enough to my ears to allow me to wear ear plugs and still catch some tunes. Reports I've read sure trash the in ear combination ear plug / speaker set up. The volume always needs to be increased to hear tunes over the wind noise, and hearing damage results. Getting the speaker out of your ear reduces hearing loss potential.

I wish the helmet provided as much safety as a true full face, but noting how many times I put the helmet on then remember I need to put on my sunglasses the flip up sure makes it easier.

Another nice feature is HJC has supplied me with repair bits and spares at no charge. They even paid the postage. Yippee..

HS...I have an HJC modular that I've had for about 2 years. No significant issues with it. Like Chris said, you can flip it open and get a full face of fresh air now and then. It's also nice to be able to talk to other riders without having to yell loud enough to be heard. I wear ear plugs when riding, so noise isn't a factor for me.

Regarding water entry at the seam, I've never really had a problem with it... some minor leakage is to be expected but it's no more than what I've experienced with a regular full face around the visor. I rode late Sunday afternoon during an hour long downpour here in Michigan (trying out my new Aerostich Roadcrafter beer.gif ), and no major leakage then either.

The only downside I see is I don't know how well the locking mechanism would hold up in a crash.

I also have a Scorpion EXO-700 that I'm very happy with, but they don't make a modular...at least not yet...a rep at last January's Detroit bike show said they may come out with one next year. Ron

I personally want to try the KBC FFR. The flip up mechanism is metal and I like the looks of the helmet.

I tried one on and it was pretty nice, but the dealer wouldn't let me "test drive" it.

My favorite is Schuberth C2.

[image: user posted image]

Plus: aeroacoustics, sun visor,
Minus. weight

Used to have a BMW System 4. I like the C2 better.

I've been using a Nolan N100 flip up face helmet for about 3 years now. I like it enough that if I replace it I'll get another one. It works great if you wear prescription glasses or even sunglasses; you don't have to remove your glasses to don the helmet.

My only dislikes are that the vents don't do much and it is somewhat noisy. I wear earplugs anyway (especially now that I have your old D&D!). goofy.gif These features have probably been improved in newer models...

Miguel,

I wore an HJC Symax for three seasons when touring.

The ability to more easily communicate with riding partners, grab a gulp of cooler air at stoplights and take a sip of water are nice features. I parked it in the helmet box because the seal at the top of the visor(s) leaked in heavy rain allowing water to run down the inside of visor, not good.

I would consider a Shoei Syncrotec for touring if the face shield seals and functions as well as my Shoei RF 1000.

Regards,

VFR_ATL

I've used a Nolan N100 for a couple of years (plus a Scorpion EXO-700 and a Vemar). The Nolan is fantastic if you wear glasses; there is just no comparison with standard full-face helmets for ease of putting on and taking off the helmet. I've ridden in torrential downpours without any leakage issues. The Nolan is a average weight and OK as far as wind noise goes (I wear ear plugs, so this is somewhat of a non-issue). The venting is nothing to write home about.

I really like the Nolan helmet strap latching (a ratcheding buckle); I wish more helmets had this. Standard D-rings suck by comparison.

Motorcycle Consumer News did a flip-up helmet comparison a few years ago; you might want to try to dig that up.

I have a Nolan N100 & I like its fit and comfort, It is great on the Goldwing. But on the VFR...its too damn noisy, even with ear plugs. The VPS shield (sunscreen) when in the up position whistles very loudly. It works great and can be taken off... but its a pain. Same same on the chin strap systems, its great.

I am looking for a comfortable, quite full face for the VFR, and one that vents well ..a necessity down here in the summer heat/humidity.

However I like the ability to flip up the helmet in parking lots and certain other situations where I feel that I have a better situational awareness and require less head turning.

Ah well, gotta get a full face for track day anyway!

OK guys I have 3 helmets now, my Aria which is very old and smelly - needs a new shield and rachet system cause it is wore out, I never wear it anymore. My scorpion ex 700 which I broke the ratchet for at the Texasmac ride, I have not been able to source the part for it, but I am sure I will soon, its in excellent shape other than the part I broke.

I ended up getting a Nolan fliptop midrange expensive

Nolan X-Lite X-1002 Metallic Black Large $319 at

Extreme Supply

The dont charge shipping for over $100 in purchases and where a good $50 cheaper than helmet harbor where I got my Scorp. It was the only helmet they were that much better on price though.

With 3 helmets I think I am relatively covered for riding, OH yea I have a motocross helmet too for the XR forgot about that. 4 helmets now.

I read a review on it and tried one on at the local dealer - who is way too expensive for me, I bought 4 bikes from them and other gear so I have no problem passing on a helmet they marked up too much. I tried on the KBC yesterday and it fit too tight on my forehead, I have a rather large neck and roundish head, the Nolan seemed to fit me better, its all about comfort. I like the flip down visor too, but dont know how long it will be till I scratch it, I can can scratch a visor in 60 seconds or less without even trying!!

I dont know if I like that wratcheting strap either but I guess you just have to learn to use it, I have an old stainless steel strap alternative too. If I hate it, I will just put that on instead - it just snaps together no messing around, I used that for years on my Arai, I bought it when the chin strap started to unravel and there wasnt enough strap left to get into the D ring, so I just bought that click device and it worked for another year. Stainless steel and dead secure spring loaded device one click and its locked the strap to your chin.



stay tuned for my full review.

I've had an HJC cl-max for about a year; previously arai's and shoei's. It's more comfortable than my last arai (haga repli) and slightly less noisy. Just like cell phones or microwave ovens, you never know how convenient a flip up is until you have one. Last summer while in England/France, it seemed everyone had one. I rarely take mine off at gas stops, stores, short errands, etc. Thumbs up.

I read that "one" report of roll offs and quite frankly found the "reviewer" suspect and the report nothing more than an opinion (just like this one). Properly fastened there's no frickin' way mine would roll off. I tried and damn near choked myself. That "reviewer" probably had the wrong size or it improperly fastened. Just my 2 cents.

I used my Nolan N100 helmet for about 9-10 years and I have just bought a Scorpion 700. The first thing I noticed was that Nolan was the louder helmet. Second, the Nolan had less ventillation on the top of the head than the Scorpion. As others mentioned there is more windflow around the chin in the Nolan. The Nolan's helmet strap latching (a ratcheding buckle) advantage becomes disadvantage when you try to lock the helmet to the bike, because you cannot. Also because ther is no SNELL certified flip up helmet on the market so far, you probably cannot wear it on track days as they usually required SNELL certified helmets.
However, I do not want give an impression that the flip up helmets are bad. Even though the Nolan was louder then my Scorpion it was not that annoying and with diferent head shape you might get different loudness. Also, I use some kind a chin wind blocker thingy with the Scorpion.
The Nolan's helmet strap latching has never given any problem to me because I do not like to leave my helmet outside, because UV is not a good thing for the shell. If you still want to have a old double D ring helmet strap you can buy a thing for $5-$10 that converts the strap latch into double D ring.
All in all, I loved my flip up helmet. There was a reason I used it for that long. smile.gif I liked the fact that I was able to talk with people face to face. I felt that it was easier to breathe when I was on foot. At the fuel station it was easier to look down to my tank bag and find my wallet with the flip up helmet. It was always easier to take the helmet on and off. Oh, yeah and you can have a bite of food or sip some drink without doing the whole glasses out (if you wear), unstrap helmet, helmet off, earplugs out, bite and sip, earplugs back, helmet back, strap helmet, glasses back. It saves a lot of time on long or timed trips. My Nolan helmet did not have any leaking problem. However, fogged more than the Scorpion. Oh, the new flip up Nolan 102s come with built in (actually the sun shade is outside) sun shade. I was never able to roll off my Nolan from my head, so I agree with FotoMoto.

oyamaI do not like to leave my helmet outside, because UV is not a good thing for the shell

Just thought I'd throw in here too - you also shouldn't leave a helmet in the garage or shed as solvent evaporation from things like fuelcans, oil, cleaning products etc. will also attack the shell and the liner adhesives.

HS

I really wanted one a few years ago so I got the best most expensive one on the market, Schubert (sp?) I rode cross country in it and almost went deaf even with ear plugs. It now sits in my closet and only comes out on days I teach, it is a great teaching helmet for I can keep it up and talk to the students and my ride to the range is only a couple of miles.

I will never own a another flip up helmet due to the noise.

The Phantom, May 16 2006, 05:22 PM

oyamaI do not like to leave my helmet outside, because UV is not a good thing for the shell

Just thought I'd throw in here too - you also shouldn't leave a helmet in the garage or shed as solvent evaporation from things like fuelcans, oil, cleaning products etc. will also attack the shell and the liner adhesives.

And let's not forget our furry little mouse friends too. Had one entirely shred a helmet one winter. Mine stays in the house now. . . where they can't find it.

The Best thing about Flip-ups is the ability to pull up to a Hot Chick at a Stop light, flip up and say "Hey Baby"! goofy.gif
I've never owned one though! unsure.gif

baileyrock, May 16 2006, 01:40 PMThe Best thing about Flip-ups is the ability to pull up to a Hot Chick at a Stop light, flip up and say "Hey Baby"! goofy.gif
I've never owned one though! unsure.gif

......right before you put yer foot down in a pool of oil, and dump it!!!!! wink.gif

baileyrock, May 16 2006, 09:40 PMThe Best thing about Flip-ups is the ability to pull up to a Hot Chick at a Stop light, flip up and say "Hey Baby"! goofy.gif
I've never owned one though! unsure.gif

For some reason your pick-up approach reminds me of the "Mr. Microphone" ads from the 80's. goofy.gif

Beck
95 VFR

I found the following write up on the website of a real motorcycle fanatic that has tons of information on it. This is his comment on flip up helmets and a friends accident.


"I have never owned one of these new flip-open helmets, most notably the HJC, Nolan, and Schuberth. None of the flip-open helmets have been submitted to Snell for testing. I now believe this is because the manufacturers know that the helmets will fail the test. I have heard several stories now about people crashing in flip-open helmets and getting eye socket damage and concussions - in one case, a personal friend of mine. My friend had what seemed to be a relatively minor side impact on his head - the helmet was barely scarred at all. However, at the hospital he fell into a coma for three days, and was confused for another couple of weeks. He required two surgerys to repair his eye sockets so that his eyes would stay in his head. Frankly, his story really shook me up and I started investigating these helmets much more closely. I was not impressed with what I learned.

The shell of the flip-open helmets apparently work just fine. I have no indication that these helmets tend to open in a crash and expose your face. However, the hinge mechanism in flip-open helmets takes up space that in any other helmet would be shock- absorbing EPS styrofoam protecting your temples. The hinge mechanism intrudes into the impact-absorbing liner in the temple area. If you hit the side of your head on the ground (quite common in a fall) the hinge mechanism can hit your temple hard enough to break your skull. As they say in Ghostbusters, this would be bad.

I spoke at length with the people at the Snell institute about this topic (7/04). They have never had a flip-open helmet submitted to them for certification, and therefore have never tested one, nor have they paid much attention to them. They found my statement, that flip-open helmets can cause temple damage, quite interesting. I learned from them that essentially all helmet manufacturers have in-house testing facilities and do a very good job of this. They named three companies in particular who do a superlative job; all three make flip-open helmets. I was told that the manufacturers can perform the Snell certification tests just as well as Snell can, so they know well in advance if they are going to pass.

Snell and DOT testing is performed with a magnesium dummy head in the helmet. The magnesium head has one accelerometer located at the center of gravity. This means the accelerometer cannot test for twisting forces, and it can only record the average impact force on the head, the force averaged over the entire surface of the magnesium head. There is no way this device could record a sharp impact on a small area, such as might occur if the hard plastic hinge mechanism hit the magnesium skull. The Snell and DOT tests have separate tests for the shell, to see that they resist penetration by sharp objects. The tests are not designed to record if a small hard object already inside the shell hits your head. So, it turns out that Snell and DOT tests are not very sensitive to an impact from a hinge mechanism.

None the less, it's interesting that none of the flip-open helmets have ever been submitted to Snell for independent testing. Some of the companies that make these helmets pay to have essentially all of their other street helmets certified, but not the flip-open in particular. I find this exceedingly suspicious.

I recommend you avoid flip-open helmets if safety is a concern. Side impacts to your head are quite common in motorcycle accidents. The temple area is the weakest part of the skull. Injury to the temple area can cause substantial brain damage and substantial vision impairment. If you have a side impact in a crash I believe flip-open helmets will likely cause temple fractures and concussions far in excess of what you would have from a full-face or open-face Snell helmet. I believe you're safer in an open-face helmet than in a flip-open. "

Last summer I had a first hand experience in a crash, using a Schuberth C2. Hitting a dog, at aprx. 80 km/h, I went head first over the bike and landed on my left temple, as first contact.
Sliding for about 60 meters, I came to a halt at the roadside, with a broken wrist, left collarbone and some ribs. The windshield got torn off at impact, but I got no injuries to my head nor my face. The helmet gave good protection, and I've now bought my second Schuberth C2.
As I wear glasses, I find it problematic to remove the eyewear every time I'm putting on my helmet.


[image: user posted image]
The helmet.

I remember that article last year that showed that snell rating isn't always better. DOT and Euro ratings were softer and diverted more of the impact energy then the snell helmets. Now I love my shoei that is snell rated, but I wouldn't base my selection on that alone. Some how we American's have become Snell Snobs, and it isn't always the best helmet. I've heard other people talk about that article on this site and if I'm remembering correctly, a cheap $80 DOT helmet was better at the impact then the $300 Snell helmets. Might not be as refined in paint and looks, but when it came to hitting the testing lab, it came out on top. Anyone remember which mag had that article?

I had the Nolan x1002 with the built in visor..ordered from Moto Accessory Warehouse...
helmet fit fine when I had tried it on in a store for up to 15 minutes, but when I got it and went for a ride, after about 30 minutes I was in excruciating pain. Man, it was torture. My head just didn't fit the Nolan shape.

I guess I have a Shoei head. So I returned the Nolan and got a Shoei RF1000, which is just as great as the Rf900 I had before that, and the RF???? I had before that.

Having a flip-front would have been great, but really, putting my glasses back on after putting my helmet on isn't that big a deal.

The point of my post? Make sure your helmet is compatible with your "head shape". (Please note, the size was right, just not the shape. Nolan and Shoei are waaay different in this respect.)

Ride safe!

I've got a silver HJC Sy-Max, and I love it. It gets darn hot here in southern New Mexico, and being able to flip it up at stops/slow speeds really helps. Unfortunately, the bug population here is kinda high, so having the option of a full face at highway speeds is a life saver. If you're considering getting a flip-up, really think about getting a "one-hander", if you can find one you like.

S~!

Tim

EDIT: I forgot to mention the vents, which are pretty useless unfortunately. Also, so far the Sy-Max seems waterproof... I've been in many a rainstorm and I've never had any problems with leakage. If the top vent actually worked, I'd recommend this helmet to anyone!

cianciar, May 17 2006, 04:54 PMI remember that article last year that showed that snell rating isn't always better.  DOT and Euro ratings were softer and diverted more of the impact energy then the snell helmets.... Anyone remember which mag had that article?

Motorcyclist...October or possibly September issue. Great article, it inspired the wrath of Snell and quite a bit of flack from Arai (which I have always ridden) and Shoei.

I have a Shoei, syncrotech and absolutely hate it. It is loud and feels like tornado-like winds are blowing across my face. But the kicker is that the strap digs deep into my jaw, almost like it's choking me up above the adams apple. I try never to turn my head left otherwise it digs deeper into my throat. My advice is try one before you buy. I have an x-11 which I will swear by.

Everyone here should take the time to read that Motorcyclist article on helmet standards. It is on their website. What an eye-opener. It basically exposes Snell as being dangerously arrogant, as well as some BIG name helmet mfr's, who subsequently jerked all advertisng, put their hands over their ears and went pouting off into the sunset.
I bought one of the helmets that was DOT that they found to be best for safety for my girlfriend. The kids at the shop acted like I was the stupidest, most uncaring boyfriend since Charlie Manson. "Don't you want her to be protected when you crash? Don't scimp out."
I them asked them what the testing criteria for Snell approval was. "Uh, I don't know, but EVERYONE knows Snell are better".

It should be noted that Motorcyclist lost ALOT of advertising revenue over this, and has stood it's ground nicely. A MUST READ. fing02.gif

Oh yeah, for the record I wear a snell helmet mostly. It just fits the best!! My next one with be a cheap Z1R DOT, which is the helmet the produced the best results.