To all that own a pair, will the Sidi's break in and expand a bit? Here is my dilemma: I always wear a size 13 but these Sidi's are quite tight on the front and my toes feel cramped. I had a pair of Oxtars that wear a 13 and fit great. I also have a pair of timberland boots in a 12 wide so go figure. After doing some research (should have done more in hindsight) it would seem the 14 Sidi will not help my wide feet. I measured my feet and at the base of my toes at the widest spot is right at 4 1/2 inches and my feet are 11' in length. Hopefully somebody on here has had a similar issue
JBY28, Aug 19 2006, 07:43 PM
To all that own a pair, will the Sidi's break in and expand a bit? Here is my dilemma: I always wear a size 13 but these Sidi's are quite tight on the front and my toes feel cramped. I had a pair of Oxtars that wear a 13 and fit great. I'm trying to decide if I should get some 14's...of course they will probably be too big with my luck.
What european size did you get? 48?
JBY28, Aug 19 2006, 08:01 PM
Yes euro 48/USA 13.
According to Sidi's own sizing chart, a 48 should fit up to 13.5.
I would think that they'll stretch a little, but not a whole lot.
No personal experience here, but I'm fairly new to biking so I've been doing a bit of reading on gear and it seems like the general opinion is that Sidi's and Setup (size D width) tend to be a bit on the narrow side where as Oxtar's tend to be a bit wider...almost an E width. Maybe the boot is just too narrow for you even though the length is right?
JBY28, Aug 19 2006, 06:43 PM
To all that own a pair, will the Sidi's break in and expand a bit? Here is my dilemma: I always wear a size 13 but these Sidi's are quite tight on the front and my toes feel cramped. I had a pair of Oxtars that wear a 13 and fit great. I'm trying to decide if I should get some 14's...of course they will probably be too big with my luck.
I have a pair of Oxtars and a pair of Sidis. The Sidis run one size small re the Oxtar - and I think it was the newenough.com site that confirmed this in one of its writeups. I wear size 44 Oxtar, size 45 Sidi.
Jack
JBY28, Aug 19 2006, 05:43 PM
To all that own a pair, will the Sidi's break in and expand a bit? Here is my dilemma: I always wear a size 13 but these Sidi's are quite tight on the front and my toes feel cramped. I had a pair of Oxtars that wear a 13 and fit great. I'm trying to decide if I should get some 14's...of course they will probably be too big with my luck.
European boot companies all use their own last. So the shape may vary a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer. Some are narrow in the front and wide in the back. Others are just the opposite.
Gotta try them on to be sure.
I have several pairs of Sidi boots. I wouldn't expect them to stretch too much.
My experience with the Vertigo boot is that you will get very little, if any, stretch in the upper material.
I'm so glad I noticed this thread. I must get a pair of these things. So many boots out there sufficate the foot.
What materials are these Sidis made of? Lorica was mentioned somewhere. According to
the wiki it's like chain mail.. that can't be right.
This site has me thinking it's like a European version of aramid (aka kevlar). I've been looking for an air mesh kevlar boot - I believe this is the closest thing to it.
JBY28, Aug 20 2006, 07:43 AM
Take the original inserts out and replace them with a thinner odour eating variety...
The original inserts in the sidis and oxtars I have were quite thick and after making a mistake with size once I actually take the inserts out when I try the boots on at the shop
Hope this idea helps ya
PS: unrelated advice off topic but I also stuff boots with newspaper when I take them off absorbs the moisture, keeps em nice stops em smelling... everyone should do this
I just got my pair of Vertigo Airs today and agree that the Sidi's are definitely a narrower fit boot....certainly narrower than my A-Star SMX plus'.................I don't have wide feet so they're fine for me, but if you do the, Sidi's may not be the best choice???
I've got the Vertigo Corsa Air model. Mine fit perfectly right out of the box. They show no evidence of stretching after several long tours that included a lot of walking. I actually hadn't planned to walk much in them, but they are so comfortable that I didn't bother to change to sneakers when I got off the bike. If yours feel tight, you should probably exchange for the next larger size.
JBY28, Aug 19 2006, 07:43 PM
To all that own a pair, will the Sidi's break in and expand a bit? Here is my dilemma: I always wear a size 13 but these Sidi's are quite tight on the front and my toes feel cramped. I had a pair of Oxtars that wear a 13 and fit great. I'm trying to decide if I should get some 14's...of course they will probably be too big with my luck.
Get the 49 (14)... I usually wear a 13, but the 14 SIDI fit me like a glove. I have worn them for over 1000 miles of riding and a few miles of walking and they haven't stretched much at all.
dry.gif I only wish I knew this before. The oxtars are much wider and as some of you have guessed I have a wife clubfoot tongue.gif So I will try the 14 and hopefully that will work, otherwise I will buy a pair of A-Stars which hopefully will be on the same size wavelength as Oxtar is!
I hate buying shoes currently I have: 2 nikes size 14, timberland boots size 12W, Danner boots 13E, Work boots 13, and a pair of narrow Sidi's 13~!
headstart_ca, Aug 19 2006, 10:21 PM
My experience with the Vertigo boot is that you will get very little, if any, stretch in the upper material.
+1.gif
I have ridden about 3000 miles since I got my Sidi Vertigo boots and they do not feel any different than the day I bought them.
If I am not mistaken most of Sidi's boots are made of a synthetic material called Lorica...
http://www.sidisport.com/eng/motorcycle/ar..._ID=MVVERTIGOCARecommended for warm, sunny weather.
Produced in breathable Lorica for enhanced breathability.
Tecno VR System
Air intake
Shock absorbing heel
Replaceable nylon shin deflector
Rubber sole
Lined with air Teflon mesh
All boot components are replaceable.
From
http://www.motonation.com/sidifaqs.htm
Does Motonation carry any boots that are not manufactured with leather?
Many of the Sidi boots are available in Lorica a synthetic material that Sidi believes actually out performs leather in most applications. Please note the specs on each model for its base material. Models constructed with a Sympatex waterproof membrane and constructed with top grain leather outer as it works best in conjunction with Sympatex.
What is Lorica?
A small town in western Pennsylvania.
Actually, Lorica is a synthetic material used on many models of Sidi boots. It has better abrasion protection than leather; it also stretches a bit less over the long run.
See also: http://www.loricasud.com/
Just received a pair of the Sidi B2. Nice boot but they do feel a bit narrow, and my toes are slightly crowded in spite of the fact that the size feels correct otherwise. My Oxtars are far more comfortable. For what it's worth, I wear a size 10 shoe. My Oxtars are 43's and the Sidi's are 44's.
Thanks for the replies.....as my frustration grows....well I'm not convinced a size 14 Sidi is my answer since my feet are more wide vs. long. So looks like I will be going with a pair of Alpinestars.....gheesh. And of course most of their boots only go up to 12.5 which may or may not fit. What a PITA
SEBSPEED, Aug 20 2006, 12:06 AM
According to Sidi's own sizing chart, a 48 should fit up to 13.5.
I would think that they'll stretch a little, but not a whole lot.
FYI, The Sidi Airs are most likely made out of the synthetic leather material called Lorica. It might not stretch at all as leather does through wear. At least not enough to make a difference in comfort.
Beck
95 VFR
Beck, Aug 20 2006, 06:33 PM
FYI, The Sidi Airs are most likely made out of the synthetic leather material called Lorica.
I am suddenly unimpressed with these boots.
I noticed two different European companies are using the same "Lorica" brand name, both for textiles. I'm surprised the European trademark laws allow it.
Thanks to rjstaaf, we know an Italian company makes a synthetic leather called Lorica (
http://www.loricasud.com/). A British company makes an aramid (Kevlar) analogue called Lorica (
http://www.lorica-research.com/vest.htm). Consumers buying motorcycle armor could easily get the two mixed up and think they're dealing with the wrong material.
If the Vertigo Air is really just the (untested and unproven) synthetic leather from Italy, it's suddenly much less appealing to me. Since boots can easily get trapped under the weight of the bike sliding on asphalt, fake leather doesn't cut it. For all we know, this artificial leather could melt - since it does contain polyurethane.
...back on my search for Kevlar mesh boots.
jgombos, Aug 19 2006, 10:34 PM
I'm so glad I noticed this thread. I must get a pair of these things. So many boots out there sufficate the foot.
What materials are these Sidis made of? Lorica was mentioned somewhere. According to the wiki it's like chain mail.. that can't be right. This site has me thinking it's like a European version of aramid (aka kevlar). I've been looking for an air mesh kevlar boot - I believe this is the closest thing to it.
From Sidi's website:
"LORICA is high-technology material based on a remarkable combination of ultra-fine micro-fibres. This mesh of micro-fibres is then treated with special resins to create a microporous structure which, like the col-lagen in natural leather, gives Lorica a high degree of durability, softness and breathability."
It's basically a synthetic leather.
Cheers,
Rob
jgombos, Aug 20 2006, 11:14 PM
Thanks to rjstaaf, we know an Italian company makes a synthetic leather called Lorica (http://www.loricasud.com/). A British company makes an aramid (Kevlar) analogue called Lorica (http://www.lorica-research.com/vest.htm). Consumers buying motorcycle armor could easily get the two mixed up and think they're dealing with the wrong material.
If the Vertigo Air is really just the (untested and unproven) synthetic leather from Italy, it's suddenly much less appealing to me. Since boots can easily get trapped under the weight of the bike sliding on asphalt, fake leather doesn't cut it. For all we know, this artificial leather could melt - since it does contain polyurethane.
Sidi boots are worn racers from every series and I can't imagine how you can say they are untested and unproven.
It is your money and your call though but, I think you are jumping the gun....
Here is a pair of those untested, unproven boots on the feet of Loris Capirossi from the recent MotoGP race in Brno biggrin.gif
[image: IPB Image]Do a search of your own, you will find Sidi boots on riders in every series. I can't iamagine a better place to test a boot...
Here are a couple of links to Motonation with more information on Sidi boots..
http://www.motonation.com/vertigotechnology.asphttp://www.motonation.com/vertigo.aspFYI, Sidi boots are CE approved. Not just in terms of one component of a boot(i.e. armor etc.) but the entire boot. There aren't too many manufacturers period in which the entire garment is CE approved.
I'd say Sidi is the best made boot on the market......too bad for me not engineered for a wide foot. Hence forth I will end up with a pair of A-Stars which are also well made.
JBY28, Aug 21 2006, 11:42 AM
I'd say Sidi is the best made boot on the market......too bad for me not engineered for a wide foot. Hence forth I will end up with a pair of A-Stars which are also well made.
FWIW, as I mentioned above I've got a pair of SMX+'s too which I would definitely recommend........In general I'd say they are a superior boot to the Vertigo airs I just got(only worn them once to be fair) in terms of comfort and overall protection. wink.gif
rjstaaf, Aug 21 2006, 12:25 PM
Sidi boots are worn racers from every series and I can't imagine how you can say they are untested and unproven.
When I said "untested and unproven", I was thinking in terms of tear strength and abrasion resistence.. not so much performance. If they are commonly used on track racing, then that's adequite proof for me that they function well under normal circumstances (that is, when not sliding on asphalt at 100 mph pinned under a bike on a 110 degree day).
But what about when they are crash tested? There are a bazillion ways to crash without getting useful test results on a boot. The test I was looking for was an abrasion and tear test on the material itself. Here are the numbers for natural leather (competition grade):
Pounds of force to tear: 80-110
Abrasion cycles on pavement until fabric fails: 1200-1700
I'd like to know how the Lorica used on the Vertigo air boot compares to those numbers. Couldn't find a single number. I only found propaganda like "very high abrasion resistence".
"Das Bone"
FYI, Sidi boots are CE approved. Not just in terms of one component of a boot(i.e. armor etc.) but the entire boot. There aren't too many manufacturers period in which the entire garment is CE approved.
That
sounds good, but I don't know the first thing about what CE approved means, and googling gets mass false positives. What's involved in a CE approval?
Das Bone, Aug 21 2006, 05:24 PM
FWIW, as I mentioned above I've got a pair of SMX+'s too which I would definitely recommend........In general I'd say they are a superior boot to the Vertigo airs I just got(only worn them once to be fair) in terms of comfort and overall protection. wink.gif
I noticed the SMX Plus is also made with Lorica. Why do you say they protect more? And how are they more comfortable? Do they breathe better?
I'm suspecting that one of my feet will be too wide for the Vertigo Air since the OP mentioned that they're narrow, so I'm trying to keep an eye out for boots that are forgiving on wide feet.
jgombos, Aug 21 2006, 05:29 PM
When I said "untested and unproven", I was thinking in terms of tear strength and abrasion resistence.. not so much performance. If they are commonly used on track racing, then that's adequite proof for me that they function well under normal circumstances (that is, when not sliding on asphalt at 100 mph pinned under a bike on a 110 degree day).
But what about when they are crash tested? There are a bazillion ways to crash without getting useful test results on a boot. The test I was looking for was an abrasion and tear test on the material itself. Here are the numbers for natural leather (competition grade):
Pounds of force to tear: 80-110
Abrasion cycles on pavement until fabric fails: 1200-1700
I'd like to know how the Lorica used on the Vertigo air boot compares to those numbers. Couldn't find a single number. I only found propaganda like "very high abrasion resistence".
That sounds good, but I don't know the first thing about what CE approved means, and googling gets mass false positives. What's involved in a CE approval?
I don't find those statistics even relevant to boots. If you look at most well designed boots they use hard composite at the typical abrasion points like the toe, ankle, heel and calf. Personally I think you are over analyzing things. You aren't going to find some magic chart that is going to tell you what boot is best. You are going to find a lot of boot manufacturers going with Lorica. Sidi and Alpinestars are two of the best out there.
Here is some more "propoganda" to read...
http://www.motonation.com/Moty%20pg.pdfCE is an EU attempt at standardizing product safety standards. You might have more luck finding information on it if you search for "CE Marking". Here is a good place to start
http://europa.eu/index_en.htm. Not sure another standard even exists for motorcycle safety gear other than helmets.
jgombos, Aug 21 2006, 02:39 PM
I noticed the SMX Plus is also made with Lorica. Why do you say they protect more? And how are they more comfortable? Do they breathe better?
For one thing, they have a more substantial bracing system along the sides of the SMX+'s that negate virtually any side to side movement of the ankle area....more in line with the Sidi Vertigo Corsas. They also have an inner speed lace system that allows more of a custom fit.
I find them more comfortable for my feet.....i.e. for "ME" they are more comfortable....don't know for you?
I don't have the perfed version of the SMX's so compared to the Vertigo Airs...no, they do not breathe better for obvious reasons. There is a perfed version of the SMX's as well so my guess is that they would be very similar in terms of venting/breathability to the Vertigo Air's.
Owning both, I would say that the SMX+ is more of a "race/track boot" while the Vertigo's are more of a street boot......both great boots obviously but different. For example, you'd be hard pressed to get a pair of jeans over the tops of the SMX's while that would not be a problem with the Sidi's..........
rjstaaf, Aug 21 2006, 05:47 PMI don't find those statistics even relevant to boots.
Actually, those weren't statistics, but rather measurements. There's a range because leather varies with age, thickness, and type of animal.
When selecting motorcycle armor, I always start by deciding on the material. Material is a very significant factor in both the protective qualities as well as comfort. It was actually trivial for me to decide on my pants and jacket once I ruled out Cordura and leather in favor of Kevlar.
Lorica is new to me, and I haven't been able to get a handle on its protective qualities, or get an idea of how well it breathes. I'm approaching it with caution, because all synthetic leathers I've handled in the past have been weak, like cotton. I could tear the stuff with my bare hands, and it would melt in a small low temperature flame.
rjstaaf, Aug 21 2006, 05:47 PMIf you look at most well designed boots they use hard composite at the typical abrasion points like the toe, ankle, heel and calf. Personally I think you are over analyzing things.
The fact that there are hard materials in the boot makes the strength of the Lorica less important - but it's still relevent.
If I begin to see Lorica appearing on armor that doesn't supplement with hard composites, the tear strength and abrasion resistence will be paramount.
rjstaaf, Aug 21 2006, 05:47 PMYou aren't going to find some magic chart that is going to tell you what boot is best.
I did find the following magic chart to tell me what materials are best warranty.gif
http://www.motoport.com/saveyourhide.pdfBut it's incomplete because Lorica was not tested. From there, knowing how the different materials compare to each other is half the effort in assessing the overall quality of a product.
In an attempt to determine what we're dealing with here, I dug up the following warranty information on the Sidi boots:
http://www.motonation.com/faqs.htm
Sidi boots are covered by a lifetime warranty on workmanship and materials. Now, we aren’t saying your lifetime, but the life of the boot, which can average anywhere from 3 years to 10 years. It depends on how well they are taken care of how much they are ridden on. Also, if the boots do fall under warranty, Motonation and Sidi will cover the repair or replacement of the boot. Crash damage is NOT covered under warranty!
Is that silly, or what? The warranty is dynamic, and lasts for as long as the boot lasts. Sounds like the most generous way of saying that there is no warranty.
Well I am going to take the Sidis on a quick ride just to review their form/function but they are going back to NE. I am looking strongly at the SMX-R not the plus....the SMX plus looks like a something a space man would wear..lol.
http://www.newenough.com/alpinestars_smx_r_boots_page.htm smile.gif
JBY28, Aug 22 2006, 03:39 PM
Well I am going to take the Sidis on a quick ride just to review their form/function but they are going back to NE. I am looking strongly at the SMX-R not the plus....the SMX plus looks like a something a space man would wear..lol. http://www.newenough.com/alpinestars_smx_r_boots_page.htm
smile.gif
Don't know how NE will take getting a pair of boots back that you've ridden in???
The SMXR's might be good for you(menat to mention those to you) as they're suppposed to be a bit wider.
So you're saying my feet look like spaceman's goofy.gif
jgombos, Aug 22 2006, 12:09 AM
I did find the following magic chart to tell me what materials are best warranty.gif
http://www.motoport.com/saveyourhide.pdf
But it's incomplete because Lorica was not tested. From there, knowing how the different materials compare to each other is half the effort in assessing the overall quality of a product.
I have to wonder where that test even came from, who did it, what was the methodology? Funny there is no mention of any of this. Aren't you even a bit suspicious of statistics like this from someone who has a vested interest in the numbers going their way? Show me something that confirms these numbers???
In an attempt to determine what we're dealing with here, I dug up the following warranty information on the Sidi boots:
Is that silly, or what? The warranty is dynamic, and lasts for as long as the boot lasts. Sounds like the most generous way of saying that there is no warranty.
I don't believe I have seen anything other than a warranty against defects in craftsmanship from any boot manufacturer.
Here is a quote from Motonation which is a Sidi distributor...
What kind of Warranty do Sidi boots have?
All Sidi products have a two-year from purchase date warranty on workmanship and/or materials. Warrantee covers the original buyer only and is not transferable. If the item in question does fall under warranty Motonation, at its discretion, will cover the repair or replacement of the item. Crash damage or improper motorcycle starting procedures are NOT covered under warranty!
Motonation reserves the right to repair or replace, at our discretion, any valid warranty claim. All warrantee claims must be accompanied by a copy of the original invoice from where the item was purchased.
In addition to providing complete warranty repair or replacement for your item Motonation also offers comprehensive repair services at reasonable prices (cost varies with work required). This added service is helpful when you experience a difficulty that is not covered under warranty.
A Return Authorization Number is required in order for us to begin processing a warranty claim or repairing your item. To obtain an RA# or discuss a problem that you may be experiencing with your boots you may call us at 619-401-4100. You will be responsible for the cost of shipping the boots to us: If your problem is covered under warranty Motonation will pay for the return freight. It will be sent UPS Ground unless you request more immediate handling. Motonation will then charge the customer for the difference between UPS Ground and the requested handling.
This thread is getting out of control.....I think the SMX plus look funky....they are more protective though...but funny looking IMHO:-) And I'm only going to take the boots down the road then take'em off and sad.gif em back. Well see how it goes. Too bad Sidi doesn't offer a wide to their sizing.....makes me
I have a pair of black perfed SMX-R's. They are pretty comfortable and afford pretty good protection. I do not think you will be disappointed in them. smile.gif
rjstaaf, Aug 22 2006, 07:08 PMI have to wonder where that test even came from, who did it, what was the methodology?
It would be useful if a credible, objective third party conducted the tests, and published the results. If you find such a publication, please point it out to me.
I doubt Motoport did those tests, because they cannot be performed by just anyone with a grinder and scissors. The test is standardized, and there are very specific guidelines with how to perform the test. For example, the tester has no choice about how wide the grinding wheel is, or how wide to cut the material. The equipment alone would be cost prohibitive for a mom and pop shop like Motoport, because the grinder has to be calibrated, and have a mechanism for counting revolutions. I believe Motoport did their homework on what materials are favorable in their predesign phases, and were clumsy about keeping track of the source of the information that was given to them.
rjstaaf, Aug 22 2006, 07:08 PMAren't you even a bit suspicious of statistics like this from someone who has a vested interest in the numbers going their way?
To be fair, you have to notice that Motoport also sells Cordura and leather armor. They also advertise that their best selling jacket is made of Cordura 620, which is about five notches down from the top performing material.
rjstaaf, Aug 22 2006, 07:08 PMShow me something that confirms these numbers???
I wish I could. I do accept those numbers, however, because it's commonly known that Kevlar is the strongest fiber known to man. [Or I should say, strongest fiber available, since some university in Texas supposedly recently invented a fiber that has 10 times the strength of Kevlar (perhaps using nanotubes); it'll be many years before we see it]. We also know that skin doesn't hold up too well on an asphalt slide, and that's the stuff leather is made of. There's only so much you can do to leather to harden it. So I'm not surprised that Kevlar (which can stop a bullet) outperforms leather.
rjstaaf, Aug 22 2006, 07:08 PMI don't believe I have seen anything other than a warranty against defects in craftsmanship from any boot manufacturer.
Here is a quote from Motonation which is a Sidi distributor...
Where did you read that? The quote I posted from Motonation came right out of their faq:
http://www.motonation.com/faqs.htm (Scroll to the bottom)
It essentially states that they only warrant against defects in workmanship and materials for as long as the boot lasts - which translates into no warranty at all.
offtopic.gif SINCE my thread has been hijacked I will chime in on the subject. There is a reason why m/c racers wear leather gear instead of motoports stuff. There was a study (and when I find it I will post it) done in England about abraision resistance etc etc. What they concluded was although kevelar and similar materials help up longer, they also had more resistance and drag factor, what that means is they would cause a human body to enter a tumble, vault, or fall much faster than leather. Now am I saying motorport is bad stuff.....no, but a body wearing leathers would be less likely to enter a vault or tumble. I need to post that study soon... idea3.gif
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