13 years ago went for my motorcycle license, bought an old FZ600. Sold it after 3 years and never bought an other bike because life was leading me elsewhere. I had to make a choice and at the time snowmobiling was giving me more thrill(adrenaline) with less fear since I grew up on a snowmobile, not on a bike.
Did not like the bike too much though. A bit small/low for my height, tiny seat, almost no passenger space and hard clutch. Quality: relatively light and easy to handle.
A year before stopping ski-dooing, started flying, been doing it for 8 years now, instructing for 3 and tempted to also go back to the crawlers' bunch of people. At least when not looking at them from up above.
Would use the bike as utility like going to work and have fun while doing so. Going to the flying club which is a 100km/62miles for home. Holiday short trips like a few days. Not much of an adrenaline seeker anymore and luckily I survived to the young fool I was. Now more oriented towards increasing slowly/surely my flying skills in a technical way. I guess i'd apply the same philosophy to riding now but still with the occasional agressive ride/stretch.
So I am right in the targetted group of the VFR marketing people. A sporty but made for riding bike. Not much of a racer.
Last week I was going for a VFR, but saw the F800S and ST on Motorcycle TV show. Now I'm all mixed up.
I was hooked to the ST because of the touring ergo and mostly the belt drive. Being more look oriented at the time, I remember that I hated greasing the chain often and clean it and around it to keep the bike looking good. A belt, yeh, almost maintenance free !
I read everywhere that those BMW boxers are leakers. Weird, my 200000km Subaru flat 4 is still running flawlessly. So the Rotax comforted me and I had so many of their 2 strokers just a feet or 2 in front of my.
Reading you all about BMW reliability issues makes come to the the conclusion that I should rather stick to the VFR and the price would also be better since I could get my hand on a new grey05 or black06. Not sure about black though since would keep more heat from sun. But, it could be a good thermal generator for my fellow glider pilots.
So a few questions:
VFR: - Is it torky enough not to play to much with your left foot/hand on twisty roads. - Is it comfortable for long rides while sight seeing. No back pain or neck pain trying to keep you head up on the road instead of the instrument panel. - I could have a new 05' grey ABS model for 11000 CAD$ (USD*1.17 from xe.com). new price was 13999$. What do you think about that ? - I could have a new 06' black ABS model for 12500 CAD$. - saw a few videos and engines sounded like having some mechanical friction at idle. Is that typical of that engine ? - anyone knows if an 05' VTEC can be reconfigured to react has the 06'. Would it be a good thing ?
F800 - Is it the 1st year of manuf. Thought 07' was the 2nd. - Anyone knows ->for sure<- if the transmission noise prob will really be solved as I read on ths forum. - The position is upright but the seat does not look very wide to me. Do you think it will be comfortable on long rides. - the USD base price without ABS is 10900 which would be around 13000$ in CAD and surely no previous year new/demo/low mileage units available on the market. Can you usually discuss price with a BMW dealer. I'm afraid that discussion with a 1st or 2nd model year bike that might well be popular would be hard to conduct. What do you think ? - FYI: the bump on the seat is suppose to keep the passenger from slipping down towards the rider/driver/pilot which is sometimes a problem on certain seats.
In a blink, which one would you pick ?
In a reasonable way, which one would you pick ?
Go a head with your advice. I must make a decision I won't regret (IMG:style_emoticons/oldemoticons/unsure.gif)
Hmmmm.......don't know much about the BMW. If you get the VFR and want to do some long rides you will likely have to get an aftermarket seat. Stock one is not very good. The riding position may take a little getting used to, but I know of many who have used the VFR for long trips with no issues. If you get the VFR you will not regret it......great all around machine.
SilentFlyer, Feb 14 2007, 12:51 AMGo a head with your advice. I must make a decision I won't regret (IMG:style_emoticons/oldemoticons/unsure.gif)
Hate to add another choice but if I were you I would 1) V-Strom DL1000 2) VFR 3)BMW
V-Strom DL1000 has tons of torque, upright riding, big seat, and still can be fun on winding roads - its my SUV bike- can be bought for least $$
VFR also has plenty of torque, is great fun for winding roads and also is quite comfortable stock, not IMHO quite as comfortable two-up for the rider, however, as the V-Strom, but VFR will go all out faster than the Strom if that's your thing
BMW - I like several BMW's but have never parted with the $$ to own one - I just feel for overall vallue, you can't beat the Japanese bikes (see my garage list - you will se I am biased!) (IMG:style_emoticons/oldemoticons/fing02.gif)
SilentFlyer, Feb 14 2007, 12:51 AMGo a head with your advice. I must make a decision I won't regret (IMG:style_emoticons/oldemoticons/unsure.gif)
Hate to add another choice but if I were you I would 1) V-Strom DL1000 2) VFR 3)BMW
V-Strom DL1000 has tons of torque, upright riding, big seat, and still can be fun on winding roads - its my SUV bike- can be bought for least $$
VFR also has plenty of torque, is great fun for winding roads and also is quite comfortable stock, not IMHO quite as comfortable two-up for the rider, however, as the V-Strom, but VFR will go all out faster than the Strom if that's your thing
BMW - I like several BMW's but have never parted with the $$ to own one - I just feel for overall vallue, you can't beat the Japanese bikes (see my garage list - you will se I am biased!) (IMG:style_emoticons/oldemoticons/fing02.gif)
Welcome to the forum.....what he said above is good advice. Let us know what you end up with.
I have a VFR and love it. Yes, the stock seat will cripple most people in less than an hour. Lots of solutions though - I have a Corbin and a happy bottom. I take the bike on one long ride every year 3-5000Kms and find the bike comfortable, reliable and fun. No brainer for me - VFR works.
Don't know very much about the Beemer, but the power looks a bit low. Belt Drive -YES!! I have a Harley and over 300,000 miles I have replaced 1 set of pulleys and 3 belts. Not because they broke, just preventative maintenance. A bit of a pain to change a belt, but it's all done in one sitting and then the occasional check for tension and look-see for embedded rocks.
V-Strom.......Don't know the bike well enough for comment.
Comments:
VFRD offers support for all (newbie to the experienced rider - 8/10ths) and you can always find someone in your backyard to ride with. An excellent reason to buy VFR if everything else is equal.
A Silver 2005 will ALWAYS BE FASTER than a black 2006 and the price is better.
Welcome to the forum. You seem quite precise in your thoughts (not an engineer are you? seems as is many on this site are (IMG:style_emoticons/oldemoticons/fing02.gif) )
Anyway, I cannot speak to the other bikes, but the VFR has been all I could ask for. I have an '03 with corbin seat and givi windscreen. I am 6'2" and 260, so both of these made a big difference in ride comfort. I have the WORST joints in the world and yet I can ride the VFR for hours without significant trouble. 2 hours without a stop on twisty roads is no big deal. i have never ridden it for long stretches on the slab, but would assume that would be even better. I have NEVER had any issue with my back.
The VFR is not the fastest, it is not the most comfortable, nor is it the most useful, but if you just want one bike for around town, medium distance traveling and also for having fun in the curves, then the VFR would be my choice all over again.
Regarding pricing; I am not sure about your area, but the prices you showed seem typical to high. This is one of the best priced dealers around and he is $1k US less:
I think you should be able to get a better deal...
Regarding cleanliness...yes you have to clean a chain. however, not sure what you used to put on a chain, but now they have sprain on chain wax that is not messy to apply, it does not drip off and maintains your chain. again, to get it off you have to clean with a brush and kerosene or some other cleaner (my chain brush actually came with some kind of enviro friendly stuff that seams to work well)
regarding noise, there is a normal noise that occurs when you release the clutch in neutral. it is not super loud, but definitely occurs.
the 05 to 06 change is purely opinion based. i assume you are talking about the vtec dropping from 7k rpm to 6.4krpm while just cruising around, i never hit the vtec, so it is not an issue. the lean spot that occurs around 5.5k to 6.5k is a bigger deal than the vtec. when hitting it on the twisties, i am generally above 7k rpm so it doesn't impact me much either. i actually LIKE to hit the vtec just to hear the beautiful V4 sound ratcheted up a notch!! some people will tell you they HATE the vtec no matter what, but my personal experience has been that it really doesn't impact things much on a daily basis. oh, after all that, i don't THINK you can do the switch...
i am a daily rider/ enjoy the twisties rider. i do not drive my bike from TN to FLA. This being said, if I was planning on thousands of miles at one time, I would opt for the ST, but if I wanted a single bike to use for everything, VFR is my baby.
IMO-the vfr can be quite comfortable depending on your physical characteristics. If you are in moderately good shape then the VFR will become comfortable enough for very long days after a few months of casual riding or maybe a few weeks of hardcore riding, it is all about developing the smaller muscles of the lower back and shoulder blades. I'm a shorter guy but after enough riding I find the stock seat is fine. I average about 15k a year of mostly week long trips. I have not tried an aftermarket seat, so maybe I'm missing out. As far as BMW reliability, I'm not familiar w/ Rotex's engine building quality, but I think BMW bikes are as reliable as Hondas (ducking). I just bought a bmw car and love the quality. If you like the Beemer more, get it and buy the extended warranty.
Personally I do find the chain slightly irksome, but it would not prevent me from getting another VFR or chain driven bike. If you don't think you'll be driving as aggressive then maybe the V-strom, but you maybe surprised after a year-personally I thought I'd limit my aggressive driving to cars but sold the cruiser after a few months. My Dad's a pilot also, and I think you might find yourself enjoying some spirited riding after a few months. Good luck.
If you are looking at owning the bike a long time then BMW. They support their products longer than the other brands.
After that, how the bike fits YOU is what I would be looking for. No one else will be riding it. If it does not fit you well then it is more money to make it comfortable for longer rides. Then there is the possibility that it can not be made comfortable for long rides. Luggage and storage options abound on most motorcycles.
I have chosen to ride BMW's primarily. They are sporty enough for me to enjoy riding every day and comfortable enough to to 600 to 1000 mile days.
I also have a sport bike. I ride it even on longer rides of up to 600 miles a day. It is not my every day bike. Between my fiancee and I we own 6 motorcycles.
With all the above advice, if I could only own one bike it would have to be my BMW. It is worth the bit extra and holds resale value better than all other bikes. Its integral luggage and storage are great. The power from the alternator allows me to run my electrics and anything else I want, within reason.
Thank God I have a significant other that enjoys the sport as well so I can have several bikes.
Your riding - most ( all ? ) one up - either would be fast enough, sounds like. If You're planning 2 up, by modern standards the VFR may be considered a little small / underpowered . . . even more the BMW. As mentioned, the Suzuki Vstrom is an excel commuter / trip type bike, If ya see one check it out. 1000 or 650 version. 650 probably suits 90 % of people 95 % of time. Also, I guess you've considered already, the SV 650, Yamaha FZ 1 / FZ 6. And, the new Tri 1050 Tiger is in the $10,000. new price range of BMW 800.
I have read rumors in 2 or 3 English cycle mags that the BMW 800 has a tramsmission problem, can't comment on if that's a fact, or just a couple 'stories'. Does BMW have a history of quickly fixing possible problem ? The rotax engine - obviously it's a new design, but I think the V Twin Aprilia engines are considered very reliable ( Mille, Tuono, Falco.) and they're built by rotax I believe.
One thing - this irritates me, just on principle - I'm sorta looking for a new sport tour type also --- Price of BMW 800 : In English cycle mags - the price of BMW 800 is noticably less than the Tri. 675 ( Tri - 7200 pounds, BMW 800 , 6000 .) SOMEHOW in U.S.A. , the BMW becomes noticably more expensive than the Tri. 675 - $9900. for BMW, $ 9000. for Tri. So , seems to me that's some 20 % of pure price gouging.
Funny, I sold my Arctic Cat ElTigre5000 to purchase my first sport bike, an FZ600! Yes, it was everything you say it was! Mostly my ass remembers the terrible seat!
You sound like a sporty guy, I think the VFR would look best parked next to a plane on the tarmac! BMW is very nice, too. Great ergo's, just seems a bit underpowered.
Brown81, Feb 14 2007, 01:31 PMFunny, I sold my Arctic Cat ElTigre5000 to purchase my first sport bike, an FZ600! Yes, it was everything you say it was! Mostly my ass remembers the terrible seat!
You sound like a sporty guy, I think the VFR would look best parked next to a plane on the tarmac! BMW is very nice, too. Great ergo's, just seems a bit underpowered.
Thanks everybody for the advice. My feeling is that i'll go with the VFR and pretend the chain is not there (IMG:style_emoticons/oldemoticons/huh.gif)
I will go anyway to the 2 minutes away BMW dealer just to see/sit on the ST.
V-Strom, cool, but a chain and no ABS I think.
The VFR will serve the occasional twist rage and will certainly be more comfy than the old FZ. Not to mention the "still not dealed" price of a new 05'. Would like the 06' also, but black could be a bit hot under the summer sun.
By the way, we had around 40cm(18-20 nches) of snow in the Eastern townships today and they say still 20cm to go tonight. That is when I remember why I own a Forester. It was interesting coming back from Valcourt and go around those front wheel only traction cars !
If all winter were like that I would use my employee rebate and jump back on an MX-Z 600 with HPG shocks. Hmmh or maybe a summit !?
As far as motor, I think it's about perfect for the street. If it had 150 horse it would just eat more fuel and you'd be riding on the rear wheel everywhere. But the motor will lazily cruise at 100 mph in putt mode.
Set up has alot to do with comfort, I would assume that someone would buy a VFR because they need a sportbike but dont want the agressive positioning of an RR bike. I mean if you need a true touring bike there are better choices comfort wise, and by the same token there are better options for a pure track bike.
There is leg crunch syndrom from the bike, but far less than an RR bike.
I'd go for the VFR. I'm biased. I have not seen the F800. But i have played with the other BMW's and have been impressed. The F bikes look quirkey in pics to me, but that should not matter.
IMO, it is tough to beat, the value of the VFR. Good deals can be found, and with few year to year changes, it is easy to find parts, not that you will need to buy many. You will find as you research that the VFR is allways on the Moto Press radar, and typicaly gets good marks.
One thing that is included with the VFR is access to a great community that is willing to share the joy of the riding. But you already found us.
My personal pics would be 1. VFR, 2. V-Strom, 3. BMW. I read BMWON (Owner's News) every month and I don't think I've ever read an edition that didn't include at least two letters to the editor concerning reliability. The other issue that keeps popping up every issue that would concern me the most if I were a BMW owner is that dealerships keep closing down. People in the "letters" section complain about having to drive long distances to find a dealer when one or two used to be reasonably close.
End of thread · 16 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 25 Feb 2007