Away from the track, Rossi again grabbed the headlines by declaring he may now leave Yamaha when his current contract expires at the end of 2010 after Lorenzo resigned his Fiat Yamaha contract to continue as Vale�s teammate next year.
A disgruntled Rossi said, �Usually the big manufacturers have just one top rider each. In Yamaha, there are two of us, so this is a different strategy that can bring good results, but also big disaster! I always try to make a great job of developing the bike and usually just do the work for me, but now I am also doing it for my worst enemy! Sincerely, I don�t think I deserve this after what I have done for Yamaha, but this is the Yamaha choice. I have to now decide about my future with motorcycles at the beginning of June next year � whether I continue with Yamaha, or maybe I change. Before I never thought of going out of Yamaha, but now with this situation with Lorenzo I have to make a decision.�
Personally this reminds me of the Shaq/Kobe power struggle a few years back. I think Rossi shoud suck it up and beat Jorge fair and square on a level playing field!
Well you could look at it both ways... it's an opportunity for him to show he is the maximum exponent.. beating Jorge on the same bike... although "developing the bike for Jorge" isn't altogether true... Jorge must learn to ride a bike developed for another rider... it would be totally unfair ifRossi had to learn to ride a bike developed for Rossi... although that would raise the envelope even further... and if he beat him under those conditions then he truly wold be the GOAT.
I can understand it's somewhat degrading for him... I'll bet he wouldn't be saying the same things if Jorge wasn't literally snapping at his heals on the same bike... so is the problem that he's developing the bike for both or is it because Jorge is actually a real threat...
The plot thickens...
Tune in next week when you'll hear Miss Piggy say: "There's another one gooone to the dogs"
I can understand what he is saying. I think he should go to suzuki or kawi and show he can win with anyone. Hell of a risk if he did, but he wouldn't have to worry about this issue anymore and solidify his being the GOAT.
I read his autobiography a few months back (Melvis has the book right now). This is the same deal when he left Honda - he wanted to show Honda that the rider was more important than the motorcycle.
Well, Mr. Rossi, wake up and smell the coffee. Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki/Ducati/etc's goal is not to make you world champion - it's to sell motorcycles. They sell motorcycles by racking up World Championships - not by pampering an Italian high school drop out.
I think Rossi has a valid point, but in racing it's "What have you done for me lately?" It's about winning right now, not last season or your career history. As Ricky Bobby's daddy said, if you're not first you're last.
What's funny about many sports is that potential counts as much as or even more than past results. That's why top draft picks get millions before even playing one pro game.
Yamaha sees great potential in Lorenzo. I can't blame them for not ignoring it, even at the expense of angering Rossi.
Thing is Rossi doesn't probably isn't thinking straight... but if you really think long and hard... What risk is there in changing to another manufacturer?
If he doesn't win in his first year with his new team, no biggie, as his straight set of wins was broken by Hayden several years ago and since then Stoner has also taken 1st place from him... so if he really is the GOAT he should be able to take any make of bike and win... (Jeremy Burgess by his side of course)... and if he does pull it off, either in the first or second year with the new manufacturer, he will prove a much bigger point... he doesn't ahve so much to lose now... he's just about cleaned up all the records to be had...
He should take the leap... maybe Lorenzo's bike would then be at a disadvantage (no Jeremy Burgess or Rossi development advances)...
TimC, Sep 12 2009, 12:50 PMI think Rossi has a valid point, but in racing it's "What have you done for me lately?" It's about winning right now, not last season or your career history. As Ricky Bobby'd daddy said, if you're not first you're last.
What's funny about many sports is that potential counts as much as or even more than past results. That's why top draft picks get millions before even playing one pro game.
Yamaha sees great potential in Lorenzo. I can't blame them for not ignoring it, even at the expense of angering Rossi.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/+1.gif) Well said. Much like any other professional arena, racing is all about results and the potentional for results, period. Racers will come and go but sales need to go up. Sales of bikes, shirts, and pretty much anything you stamp Yamaha on. It is a business and businesses exist to provide a service and to make money...
Whatever happened to being a team player? I'm not that old and I remember the days when it was about doing what's best for the team, not making oneself as big of a star as possible.
Whore Hay is a definite threat, although last race didn't show it. Beating your biggest rival on an identical bike would make him the best in my books but seeing him winning on yet another less developed bike would sure be interesting. I'll watch either way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .
Maybe I'm not up on the details, but I've gotta say: You're part of a team, and that's what your contract says. Too friggin' bad if you wanna be a prima donna. Start your own team with your millions. What's wrong with having a successful teammate? Seems to me that shared success is a win-win situation. Does this take money or prestige or anything away from you? Shut up & ride.
I think Rossi's #1 skill is setting the bike up each race. He's a fantasic rider no doubt, but his advantage is that he always seems to have more tire left than the others. He can burn up the pack and catch the leader after a bad start and still have good rubber to burn. So, if his team shares the bike settings which I take it from his quote they do, there is something to his arguement.
A few weeks back the two of them are out front fighting like cats and dogs until Lorenzo washed the front tire out after taking the lead from Rossi. If I'm Yamaha, I'd have to real them in. It's just a matter of time before they take each other out. Rossi is Jordan and Lorenzo is Pippen. You would never allow Pippen to upset MJ to the point of wanting to leave da' Bulls. No, no, no! Scotty, pass the damn ball to MJ or we're trading you to the Clippers. LOL
I am going to be the minority who says Rossi is doing the right thing. I think its a great business decision on his part. He is arguably the greatest racer ever and he has earned a place to throw his weight around. He can win on anything, who cares if Yamaha won't bow to his wishes. He is in a great position to say whatever he wants and if Yamaha doesn't like it, he can jump ship to another GP team, WSB, or even F1.
Valentino Rossi brings more value to the MotoGP brand than anyone else by a long shot. If he said "I'm done with MotoGP", I bet Dorna would pull crazy strings to keep him riding.
Why should Rossi continue to develop the I4 when it helps his biggest rival???
"I always try to make a great work for developing the bike, and I usually make the work just for me. But now I am also doing it for my worst enemy," stated Rossi
Why should Rossi work harder on a I4 when the V4 will afford him unrestrictive power???
"We have to work, because our bike is fantastic, but we don't have enough horsepower," stated Rossi. "What I mean is the setting is good in the corners, but we need some extra power because we lost a little bit from Brno."
BusyLittleShop, Sep 12 2009, 02:34 PMWhy should Rossi continue to develop the I4 when it helps his biggest rival???
"I always try to make a great work for developing the bike, and I usually make the work just for me. But now I am also doing it for my worst enemy," stated Rossi
Why should Rossi work harder on a I4 when the V4 will afford him unrestrictive power???
"We have to work, because our bike is fantastic, but we don't have enough horsepower," stated Rossi. "What I mean is the setting is good in the corners, but we need some extra power because we lost a little bit from Brno."
Ron Mexico, Sep 12 2009, 02:20 PMI am going to be the minority who says Rossi is doing the right thing. I think its a great business decision on his part. He is arguably the greatest racer ever and he has earned a place to throw his weight around. He can win on anything, who cares if Yamaha won't bow to his wishes. He is in a great position to say whatever he wants and if Yamaha doesn't like it, he can jump ship to another GP team, WSB, or even F1.
Valentino Rossi brings more value to the MotoGP brand than anyone else by a long shot. If he said "I'm done with MotoGP", I bet Dorna would pull crazy strings to keep him riding.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/+1.gif)
Perhaps Rossi, winning though he is, does not want to read the writing on the wall. He's entering the golden years of his racing life. For a top manufacturer to place all of their eggs in that basket could leave them in a lurch in short order. Time to start bringing up the next one and so on.
The sentimental favorite would be for him to help tune and bring the Ducati beast more glory, if not for Casey's recent championship. Not seeing Nickey gettin'-r-done.
I don't think you'll see the likes of a "Rossi" for a long time. WSB is great but way beneath him at this stage. F1, well that's just a different breed isn't it?
As "Golden Joe" Montana went to the Chiefs and Farve goes to....where the hell is he now anyway?
I tend to think Rossi knows exactly what he's saying, when and why. A couple of weeks ago, it was "I want to end my career in MotoGP with Yamaha", but that was before Lorenzo put pen to paper. Maybe Rossi thought Lorenzo was really going to jump ship? Maybe Rossi wanted to give him a little push... All I'm saying is that I seriously doubt Rossi was complaining for complaining's sake: He always has a reason!
(And AFAIK, there's already a wall in the Yamaha garage.)
OTOH, maybe this is somehow related to the Ben Spies puzzle? Speculation is rife on sites like www.motomatters.com that despite what Ben was quoted as saying, he really will go to Tech3 next season if he wins WSB this year. I can't see anything left for him to prove in WSB if he does win the title, so why not get to MotoGP whilst the GOAT is still there to be challenged? Go Ben!
Pete McCrary, Sep 12 2009, 09:37 AMI read his autobiography a few months back (Melvis has the book right now). This is the same deal when he left Honda - he wanted to show Honda that the rider was more important than the motorcycle.
Well, Mr. Rossi, wake up and smell the coffee. Yamaha/Honda/Suzuki/Ducati/etc's goal is not to make you world champion - it's to sell motorcycles. They sell motorcycles by racking up World Championships - not by pampering an Italian high school drop out.
He did in fact show Honda exactly that. That the rider made the Championship, not the bike. He showed everyone on several occasions.
Mr. Rossi is the GOAT. That is the coffee he smells everyday of his life. He knows it and we know it and Jorge knows it and Yamaha knows it. Nobody made Rossi a multiple World Champion. ROSSI made Rossi a multiple World Champion. Rossi could leave racing right now and Jorge and the rest of them will never even come close to his winning record.
They sell motorcycles by racking up World Championships. They rack up World Championships by having Rossi, not the other way around. Yamaha should kiss his ass with big fat smile on their face, all while giving him a friendly reach-around.
So, they can piss off Rossi, and lose the Championship next year to..... you guessed it...ROSSI. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)
Brown81, Sep 12 2009, 07:38 PMThey sell motorcycles by racking up World Championships. They rack up World Championships by having Rossi, not the other way around. Yamaha should kiss his ass with big fat smile on their face, all while giving him a friendly reach-around.
So, they can piss off Rossi, and lose the Championship next year to..... you guessed it...ROSSI. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif)
Well played sir, 'win on Sunday sell on Monday' has not changed at all.
JZH, Sep 12 2009, 05:16 PMOTOH, maybe this is somehow related to the Ben Spies puzzle? Speculation is rife on sites like www.motomatters.com that despite what Ben was quoted as saying
Ciao,
They announced in the last race at sansring that Ben had resigned with Yamaha for 2 years!
Well guys he IS beating Yor-Gay on the same equipment, proven time and time again he is the better rider - so thats not the issue never was! Imagine Rossi on a Duc? Would they give him a yellow one - Marlboro be damned?
My prediction: If Rossi leaves Yamaha Jeremy Burgess will retire. That was one of the signficant things I learned from his autobiography. When he jumped to Yamaha from Honda, Rossi had to beg Burgess to come. Burgess had to think about it for a couple of weeks or so until he made the leap. After all, between Doohan and Rossi, he had a lot of years in at Honda. JB has to look out for himself too. I'm sure he has a nice 401K even by today's standards but he is no spring chicken.
No, there may never be another Rossi for many years - maybe within our lifetime. But he is getting in the twilight of his career.
HispanicSlammer, Sep 12 2009, 09:06 PMWell guys he IS beating Yor-Gay on the same equipment, proven time and time again he is the better rider - so thats not the issue never was! Imagine Rossi on a Duc? Would they give him a yellow one - Marlboro be damned?
Rossi on a Duck is the logical progression of things IMO. There should be an law against it because he would wreck shop. Only issue with that is Nicky was just resigned and they aren't going to bounce Casey unless his sickness becomes a long term thing. It will be interesting how this plays out.
JZH, Sep 12 2009, 05:16 PMOTOH, maybe this is somehow related to the Ben Spies puzzle? Speculation is rife on sites like www.motomatters.com that despite what Ben was quoted as saying
Ciao,
They announced in the last race at sansring that Ben had resigned with Yamaha for 2 years!
2 years or 1? If it was 2 years, does that include on option to move to GP?
Spies and You're Hay on Yamahas in '11 & Rossi giving Suzuki a GP title??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
If il doctore' decides to move I would love to see him on the zook, actually, he seems to like power and I'm not really sure the duc would suit him all that well.
Is it just me or does it seem that actually lunitico ( i prefer this moniker, it seems to fit his riding style better, or lack of finesse at times), is going for a little too much too fast? The qualifying disaster at Laguna seca comes to mind. He may be one of those "what if" riders if he gets hurt really badly, and he just looks like he is heading for a bad one to me. (He seems to forget at times he aint on a 250 anymore) I think he needs a bit more time on the big bike, and get a little better grasp of it.
On a side note: Yamaha, given their near bankruptcy status at the moment would be well served to do what ever they have to to stay in the winners circle. (the only thing is that this does help sell their sport bikes, However, their star line and dirt bike lines outsell the sport bikes about 8 to 1, and the star line is where the money is)
To say that Rossi is part of a team is rubbish in my opinion. Once the lights go out it is every man for himself & may the best man win. He (& all the others) is trying to win the race & the championship for himself - not the supplier of the bike he is on.
Think of athletics. A runner in the 100m race in US colors; is he running the race to win it for himself or for the US? Is it any different on a solo motorcycle?
I have big sympathy for Rossi in that he is giving all his hard earned experience in bike development as feedback to Yamaha so that they can provide the best of all bikes. Now his main challenger for the title he is trying to win is benefiting from the input Rossi is providing. That is his complaint & it is entirely valid.
Lorenzo is the future for Yamaha - except there is also Spies. They seem to have got 3 of the best 4 riders riders on their books right now (well that is if Stoner is not permanently washed up).
Rossi on a Ducati would only work if Ducati would listen to him & develop the bike as he suggests. That, in my opinion, is why the Yamaha bike is exceptional right now. Brilliant engineering but he has provided the extra to make it outstanding.
GP Paul, Sep 12 2009, 03:51 PMSeriously, if your "biggest rival" is your teammate, get out. So long, it's been good to know ya.
According to Kevin Schwantz, the one guy you want to beat at the track is your teammate. Mladin and Spies. Hayden and Pedrosa. Edwards and Toseland. And so on.
I'm wondering if Rossi is a bit nervous that Yamaha may put him out to pasture and give Jorge the better stuff, kind of like Honda's treatment of Hayden.
Ryanme17, Sep 12 2009, 02:42 PMWhatever happened to being a team player? I'm not that old and I remember the days when it was about doing what's best for the team, not making oneself as big of a star as possible.
I don't follow motorcycle racing that much, but from what I've seen it's less team oriented than auto racing, especially NASCAR. Heck, even rival non-team drivers in NASCAR will help each other sometimes. Motorcycle road racing seems to be mostly 'Me first, who cares about the team?"
trickster, Sep 13 2009, 12:47 AMOn a side note: Yamaha, given their near bankruptcy status at the moment would be well served to do what ever they have to to stay in the winners circle. (the only thing is that this does help sell their sport bikes, However, their star line and dirt bike lines outsell the sport bikes about 8 to 1, and the star line is where the money is)
Hmm...so maybe we'll see a new series of pro racing soon to help sell Stars, Vulcans, Boulevards and VTXs? Cruiser racing, yeah! Categories will be beginner bikes (250-500cc), middleweights (650-900cc), power cruisers (1300-2000cc) and baggers. The series will be dominated by v-twins, of course, but Triumph will apply for an exemption for the Rocket III. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
Ryanme17, Sep 12 2009, 02:42 PMWhatever happened to being a team player? I'm not that old and I remember the days when it was about doing what's best for the team, not making oneself as big of a star as possible.
I don't follow motorcycle racing that much, but from what I've seen it's less team oriented than auto racing, especially NASCAR. Heck, even rival non-team drivers in NASCAR will help each other sometimes. Motorcycle road racing seems to be mostly 'Me first, who cares about the team?"
Well, that's probably because MotoGP isn't a "team sport". (There is actually a "team championship" in MotoGP, but it isn't even as important as the manufacturer championship...) Riders are usually grouped into teams, but that appears to be mainly about economies of scale, not anything to do with "playing as a team". What sport are you guys watching, anyway? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
JZH, Sep 12 2009, 04:16 PMI tend to think Rossi knows exactly what he's saying, when and why. A couple of weeks ago, it was "I want to end my career in MotoGP with Yamaha", but that was before Lorenzo put pen to paper. Maybe Rossi thought Lorenzo was really going to jump ship? Maybe Rossi wanted to give him a little push... All I'm saying is that I seriously doubt Rossi was complaining for complaining's sake: He always has a reason!
I'd agree with this as Rossi is the master of the psych head games. He seems to think everything out very clearly and does always seem to have a specific rational for what he says and does.
He's very sneaky (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Racing is an interesting animal - you need a team to win as an individual. But when the lights go out, it's like Tok Tokkie said - every wanker for hisself. That said, Rossi is the reason Yamaha has acheived Championship glory in this century, however there is a tide of talent rising - a surfeit of riches, if you will, and Lunatico is undeniably the real deal. So, Yamaha hedges their bets and gives their uber-talented suqadron of aces equal footing and of course Rossi is gonna go all cazzo di puta and rattle his saber and threaten to leave and so I say andale! Go on, you bad ass linguini munching mofo and grab another challenge by the scruff of the neck and make it do your biding. The racing world will be the better for it... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
As much as we all like to go on about the 'sport' of motorcycle racing it's the 'business' of motorcycle racing at play here. Lorenzo has until now been on inferior hardware to Rossi - we're talking split hairs here, but nevertheless Lorenzo's bike has been 'slower' than Rossi's. So, it's fair to say that Lorenzo has gone a long way towards earning the better quality gear.
And Rossi doesn't like that as it takes away that fractional advantage, which is all he needs to win. Rossi has almost always had superior power/chassis/tyres during his stellar career and it's a big part of his success, much like Stoner's breakout season in 2007. He (and Stoner) have undeniable talent but racing at this level is simply about all of the little pieces making one big piece. Yes, he can win a race on a slower bike, but it's not really feasible to win a title on one.
Anyway, Rossi still has JB, which is like having an extra 5hp on any given Sunday (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I agree that he would not be making these statements without a good reason (which may or may not be to take attention away from the announcement that he is being pursued for over 2 million Euros in payment from the accounting team that brokered his tax deal with the Italian tax office in 2007...)
On Spies - his two year signing with Yamaha seems to be fairly open as far as conditions go - it's believed that if he takes the WSB crown this year he may be with Tech3 alongside Edwards next year, otherwise he takes another tilt at the WSB title next year with a move to Tech3 in 2011. His future will be fascinating to watch, I want Haga to take the WSB crown this year but I also want Spies in MotoGP tomorrow!!!
Away from the track, Rossi again grabbed the headlines by declaring he may now leave Yamaha when his current contract expires at the end of 2010 after Lorenzo resigned his Fiat Yamaha contract to continue as Vale�s teammate next year.
A disgruntled Rossi said, �Usually the big manufacturers have just one top rider each. In Yamaha, there are two of us, so this is a different strategy that can bring good results, but also big disaster! I always try to make a great job of developing the bike and usually just do the work for me, but now I am also doing it for my worst enemy! Sincerely, I don�t think I deserve this after what I have done for Yamaha, but this is the Yamaha choice. I have to now decide about my future with motorcycles at the beginning of June next year � whether I continue with Yamaha, or maybe I change. Before I never thought of going out of Yamaha, but now with this situation with Lorenzo I have to make a decision.�
Personally this reminds me of the Shaq/Kobe power struggle a few years back. I think Rossi shoud suck it up and beat Jorge fair and square on a level playing field!
Jorge was quoted as saying he signed back up with Yamaha because they apparently promised he'd get the same engine as Rossi next year. Whaaaa?!!! Jorge hasn't been getting the same equipment and is keeping up? If that's the case, no wonder Rossi's doesn't like the deal. Why make his main competitor better?
quote name='trickster' post='645524' date='Sep 13 2009, 12:47 AM']On a side note: Yamaha, given their near bankruptcy status at the moment would be well served to do what ever they have to to stay in the winners circle. (the only thing is that this does help sell their sport bikes, However, their star line and dirt bike lines outsell the sport bikes about 8 to 1, and the star line is where the money is) Hmm...so maybe we'll see a new series of pro racing soon to help sell Stars, Vulcans, Boulevards and VTXs? Cruiser racing, yeah! Categories will be beginner bikes (250-500cc), middleweights (650-900cc), power cruisers (1300-2000cc) and baggers. The series will be dominated by v-twins, of course, but Triumph will apply for an exemption for the Rocket III. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
OFF TOPIC BUT.
I would pay serious money, to see real wsb, gp.... riders going hammer and tong at Laguna seca on baggers!
vfrcapn, Sep 12 2009, 11:25 PMSpies and You're Hay on Yamahas in '11 & Rossi giving Suzuki a GP title??? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
That one's got my vote! Anything but Kawasaki. They couldn't build a competitive bike if they borrowed an M1 and slapped kawi stickers on it. It's sad but true. Rossi on the other hand has proven time and again he's the champ. He's consistent, cold, calculating, and puts so much pressure on a person until they make a mistake running on the ragged edge. Jorge is good, but he's standing on the shoulders of a greater rider while he's riding for Yamaha. For all who doubt I offer this, who's riding on who's setups? Any rider would be mad if he worked hard with his team to get his bike just right and then the owners of the team handed it over to your biggest rival (who's never proven he can compete with you on anything but your setup). Rossi's proved his worth and superiority, Jorge will always be in his shadow. You don't see the stands packed with white 99 flags all over the place do you? No! You want to call MotoGP headquarters, the phone number is 46
P.S. While I think Rossi is the Greatest MotoGP rider of all time, my hat goes off to Joey Dunlop. The Isle of Mann is a daunting task that he conquered 25 times. That's real riding!!!
Fascinating discussion here. My take is this: Last year Jorge was just the next heinous crash waiting to happen. Everyone lives and learns and maybe Jorge has too. On the other hand, maybe he's just this year's Casey Stoner/Sete Gibernau. #46 on the other hand, will win (what) his 9th world championship this year? At the tender age of 30 Doctore' is a seasoned vet who has already stated his disapproval of all the MotoGP electronic wizardry and certainly insinuated WSB as an option. While there has been talk of F1, I don't see it as Rossi himself has stated a preference for rally car (but just has too much left in the 2 wheeled world IMO). I hope he stays in MotoGP long enough to do battle with the next real deal whose name is not Lorenzo or Stoner, but Spies!
End of thread · 46 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 18 Sep 2009