lots of talk about the rossi/stoner incident at jerez

some pretty tough actions/words out of stoner on sunday. it reminded me of an incident in 2006 (over-shadowed by a much discussed other incident in that same race) involving stoner's own ambition/talent ratio: i wonder if stoner remembers that incident. it wasn't for the lead, and it didn't affect the championship... but sete ended up with a broken collar bone, if i remember correctly. it's just racing, boys. may as well quit yapping about it, get back on the bikes and go chase those points next time around.

I agree about the "stuff happens in racing", but in that clip Stoner went down and Sete had nowhere to go. Different from a failed pass IMO.

I agree different scenarios. Plus I think Stoner was upset about the all help that Rossi got to get going again....and even Lorenzo agreed.

stoner is a waste of brightly coloured leather.

alright then... here's a different angle on the marshals (watch out for the sound, it's loud and bloody awful): maybe it's easier to get a running GP bike back on the track than it is to bump start one? maybe the spanish marshals are die-hard rossi supporters with a hate on for kangaroo-land? the point i'm trying to make is that arguing about the details is more likely to reflect who you support.... and none of it really matters. race long enough and you'll end up on both sides of it, at one point or another. hop back on and win those points back.

[image: View Post]superchode, on 06 April 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

race long enough and you'll end up on both sides of it, at one point or another.

Good point. Stoner was screwed over, but he'll bounce back.

I just want to know where the Melvis Report is? :cheerleader:


PS - The Honda is a bitch to bump-start, to fire it up on the grid they need to insert two pins into the clutch (part of the weirdness that makes it such a fast shifting gearbox). By the time the marshalls had him rolling he was already going into the racing line and they quite understandably bailed out.

I have volunteered as a track marshal in my racing days and from this angle it looks like marshals did their best, considering bikes flying by at high speeds and dropping like flies they really did not have to push him at all! Their job is to pick up bike and move it away from a track, push staring it is not in their job description. Perhaps Honda will redesign their slipper clutch after this incident, somehow incorporating those special pins in to a basket? They should learn from Ducati, no more busted clip-ons!

Just wait till they switch to AMA rules where you have to pit for an inspection after any fall and then add red flags and debris cautions, mandatory pit stops, engine changes...

As for personalities, I happen to like most Aussies, even whiny ones. In fact I can only think of one I really disliked, long before his AMA domination, always thought Mladin was a tosser.
I like most Italian riders, even Biaggi is ok in my book (not capital OK) also Brits, Americans, come to think of it, the only current racers I really dislike are both Spanish: Alonso in F1 and Jorge in MotoGP, both suffer from superiority complex. I remember Alonso's interview after he clinched world title "I got here all by myself, nobody helped me" He said that with an entire Renault team standing behind him... These days he would probably blame it on bad English but I can still see him for what he is, because of him I no longer cheer for Ferrari.

Quote

lright then... here's a different angle on the marshals (watch out for the sound, it's loud and bloody awful):

Looked to me like the marshalls did their best to give Stoner a push start.
Rossi was away in a second or 2. Just racing. :biggrin:

Watching the race live I was struck by how every marshall rushed over to Vale to help him up and get him going while stepping around Stoner. I am not a huge Stoner fan but I said to my son, wow! Couldn't believe that.

Regarding the clutch on the Honda, I think it is a DCT not a slipper clutch....I didn't think about how difficult it would be to bump start that one and had no idea about the pins they insert on the grid for the starter motor.

Because of the clutch Stoner was probably screwed as soon as Vale lost the front and left him with no where to go.

That's racing, at least they weren't team mates with two races left and one of them leading the championship. :fing02:

[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 06 April 2011 - 05:48 PM, said:

stoner is a waste of brightly coloured leather.


Hah - Rossi is the waste of brightly coloured leather. He's a total media manipulator who has managed to get all his fans think he's such a god that he can never be wrong, and to suggest so is unacceptable.

Like his little stunt of walking over to Stoner's pit with camera crew in tow? Could have apologsed later privately but no, had to do it with the media present so that he could maintain the best image.

Personally I like this guy's opinion.

Stoner speaks with his riding. Nothing more, nothing less.

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 06 April 2011 - 10:21 PM, said:

Stoner speaks with his riding.


so 9 world championships is manipulating the media?

:lurk:

I was rooting for Colin Edwards and Ben Spies and was sad to see them both crash out...Ben seemed to really be doing well in the wet and Colin had a chance to get 4th at least.

Rossi is not the lovable jokester that his public persona would suggest - many of his rivals have alluded to him being a bit of a bastard on and off the track, and if you take the rose-tinted spectacles off and have a good look at some of the things he has done over the years it is hard to disagree. Unless you are absolutely parochial about him, of course, and wish you were Uccio helping him out of his leathers after each race [image: Posted Image]

He is also prone to making at least one or two absolutely stupid moves per season, but usually the only person he affects is himself.

But his talent is undeniable... it's just that in this case he ran out of it :laughing6-hehe:

Quote

Regarding the clutch on the Honda, I think it is a DCT not a slipper clutch...

DCT is banned in MotoGP. The gearbox has some tricky stuff in it but it has been verified and found to be legal by the MotoGP stewards.

[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 06 April 2011 - 11:15 PM, said:

so 9 world championships is manipulating the media?

I love this. Every argument about Rossi always falls back to "oh well he's won 9 world championships, therefore A) he's awesome and B) he can do whatever the hell he wants".

Rossi is a combination of many factors:

1. Italian, son of a racer. Gets the best sponsorship and best bike
2. Showman. Gets the best sponsorship and best bike
3. Raced against guys with less talent for years

I suppose it's convenient to forget that Rossi demanded he gets Bridgestone tyres, and the hole f*cking FIM kisses his golden boots and changes the entire series rules because Rossi can't win on Michelins. Nobody bitched when Bridgestones were shit and were uncompetitive, but you can bet your ass if they DID, the FIM would tell them to "suck it up, princess". But oh suddenly Rossi comes along and the whole freakin' world changes just for him.

And then, anyone who DARES say it's unfair gets immediatelty told by all the Rossi fans to "suck it up, princess". HYPOCRISY!

The lengths that Rossi fans will go to defend him disgusts me. Sheeple, all of you.

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 06 April 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

I have volunteered as a track marshal in my racing days and from this angle it looks like marshals did their best, considering bikes flying by at high speeds and dropping like flies they really did not have to push him at all! Their job is to pick up bike and move it away from a track, push staring it is not in their job description. Perhaps Honda will redesign their slipper clutch after this incident, somehow incorporating those special pins in to a basket? They should learn from Ducati, no more busted clip-ons!

Just wait till they switch to AMA rules where you have to pit for an inspection after any fall and then add red flags and debris cautions, mandatory pit stops, engine changes...

As for personalities, I happen to like most Aussies, even whiny ones. In fact I can only think of one I really disliked, long before his AMA domination, always thought Mladin was a tosser.
I like most Italian riders, even Biaggi is ok in my book (not capital OK) also Brits, Americans, come to think of it, the only current racers I really dislike are both Spanish: Alonso in F1 and Jorge in MotoGP, both suffer from superiority complex. I remember Alonso's interview after he clinched world title "I got here all by myself, nobody helped me" He said that with an entire Renault team standing behind him... These days he would probably blame it on bad English but I can still see him for what he is, because of him I no longer cheer for Ferrari.


So true!

[image: View Post]2thdr, on 07 April 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

I was rooting for Colin Edwards and Ben Spies and was sad to see them both crash out...Ben seemed to really be doing well in the wet and Colin had a chance to get 4th at least.

The texas tornado didn't crash, his yammie just didn't want to see the checkered flag!

I am always happy to see Rossi wreck, never really liked him, even back in the 250 days. He seems to have this air about him that he can do no wrong.

Don't forget #4 J Burgess.

He has always come across as holier than tho, every mistake he makes is always chocked up to a racing incident. Now, he has talent in bucket loads and is blessed with divine luck, can't take that away from him, but I do so love to see him go down. :cheerleader:

Stoner went down because of Rossi, Rossi got up and could keep racing, Stoner was out of the race through no fault of his own, and most people comment on his(Stoner's) bad attitude, go figure... :rolleyes:

[The above footage of stoner taking out sete, remember it was his first season in Moto gp??? AS all the rossi fans point out he is a 9 times champ so should know better, he had the pace and would of passed shortly if he had of waited.

I cant believe all the hate on Stoner, he is a racer, he doesnt have to be nice or respectful or win fans, I think he is by far a more decent human being than Rossi will ever be. He is married and a family mans that shuns the public lifestyle as much as possible. He respects his fellow riders and rides in a way that is not dangerous to others, unlike win at all cost Rossi. To me that is sportsmanship, I like Casey sticking it to Stoner he knows what Rossi is really about , he Knows him!!! not like all us side chair critics, he is not bluffed and blinded like everyone else.

Lorenzo knows, Pedrosa Knows, its just the Rossi Idol worshipers that Dont !

Everyone cries because Rossi had no competition, and when a guy comes along to challenge him and show that he is not in awe of this guy and realises he is just a human being nothing special, they get their nose out of joint and call him disrespectful, spoilt a whinger.???

If a boxer is over awed by the 9 time world champ he is competing against how well will he do???

He minds his own business until golden boy gets in his way then everyone hates on him because he didnt say the right thing or do the right thing??? come on.. can anyone here do what he does??? i thought not

I think we should just appreciate their talent , guts and skill and not comment on what we think we see happen... as if we know, were we there, do we have all the facts????


I do remember mr perfect sportsman having a slap fight with biaggi after a race??? or we could ask Sete if he thinks Rossi is fair rider? (dont confuse talent)


I like sportsmanship and I dont believe Rossi has it, its how you conduct yourself on it not off it which counts.............


If you listen to the after race apology again, you will hear Casey say .... thats racing.... he didnt seem upset at that time to me at all as i recall he shook Rossi's hand (that means he accepted the apology)

how stoner became the bad person out of this is beyond me.... Just imagine the hate he would be getting if he had of taken Rossi out ...... I would dread to think!!!

Now if Rossi wins on the Ducati is it the superior BIKE or the RIDER??? as it was the bike when Casey rode it but you watch if rossi wins on it it will be the Rider... I wonder how well he would do without JEremy holding his hand all the time???

[The above footage of stoner taking out sete, remember it was his first season in Moto gp??? AS all the rossi fans point out he is a 9 times champ so should know better, he had the pace and would of passed shortly if he had of waited.

I cant believe all the hate on Stoner, he is a racer, he doesnt have to be nice or respectful or win fans, I think he is by far a more decent human being than Rossi will ever be. He is married and a family mans that shuns the public lifestyle as much as possible. He respects his fellow riders and rides in a way that is not dangerous to others, unlike win at all cost Rossi. To me that is sportsmanship, I like Casey sticking it to rossi he knows what Rossi is really about , he Knows him!!! not like all us side chair critics, he is not bluffed and blinded like everyone else.

Lorenzo knows, Pedrosa Knows, its just the Rossi Idol worshipers that Dont !

Everyone cries because Rossi had no competition, and when a guy comes along to challenge him and show that he is not in awe of this guy and realises he is just a human being nothing special, they get their nose out of joint and call him disrespectful, spoilt a whinger.???

If a boxer is over awed by the 9 time world champ he is competing against how well will he do???

He minds his own business until golden boy gets in his way then everyone hates on him because he didnt say the right thing or do the right thing??? come on.. can anyone here do what he does??? i thought not

I think we should just appreciate their talent , guts and skill and not comment on what we think we see happen... as if we know, were we there, do we have all the facts????


I do remember mr perfect sportsman having a slap fight with biaggi after a race??? or we could ask Sete if he thinks Rossi is fair rider? (dont confuse talent)


I like sportsmanship and I dont believe Rossi has it, its how you conduct yourself on it not off it which counts.............


If you listen to the after race apology again, you will hear Casey say .... thats racing.... he didnt seem upset at that time to me at all as i recall he shook Rossi's hand (that means he accepted the apology)

how stoner became the bad person out of this is beyond me.... Just imagine the hate he would be getting if he had of taken Rossi out ...... I would dread to think!!!

Now if Rossi wins on the Ducati is it the superior BIKE or the RIDER??? as it was the bike when Casey rode it but you watch if rossi wins on it it will be the Rider... I wonder how well he would do without JEremy holding his hand all the time???

OK, Rossi bashing time??

He is a master of mind games, but that's what it takes to win world titles, he gets paid to do it and he delivers! It's like a defense attorney, you pay him to represent you in court and even if you guilty he must do his best effort to defend you! This is no different, Valentino makes more money than anyone on the grid, I'm pretty sure, and he works harder than anyone. Mind games are part of the sport, can't handle it, get out! Look at Sete, I always liked the guy and he suddenly came good, seemingly inspired by Daijiro's fatal accident, but just as he suddenly "got it" he lost it just the same once the Rossi put a curse on him. You know what they say about nice guys, there is no room for it in professional sport, it's a cut throat business of selling bikes and entertaining fans. Don't get me wrong, I like nice guys, but I also know what it's all about

As for "gets best of the best" it's not true, look at Yamaha when he joined the team, it SUCKED! Rossi is a great development rider, he was able to get that bike where it is today, they won a bunch of championships and even Jorge's current #1 plate is in part due to Valentino's development of the bike.

Wait a year and that Duc will be winning races, especially when they go back to a liter size engine so guys like Colin and Nicky will not be disadvantaged. Did you hear some interviews with Nicky or there was one with Robers Jr, they both could not believe when Honda rolled out 800cc bike after a rule change, it was custom tailored for the midget Perdosa and normal sized riders were disadvantaged, Pedrosas manager had his hand in it and that's all it was, even after Nicky won the title despite Danny taking him out in next to last race Honda put their money on Perdrosa and Hayden got screwed because Pedrosa's manager has lot's of pull with Honda.
Last 990cc bike to win a race was a D16 with Troy Bayliss on board, while everyone was watching the title fight between Rossi and Hayden, Bayliss who was just visiting for one race after wining the WSBK title quietly ran away with a win. I expect Ducati will be right back where they left off with a rule change in 2012

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 07 April 2011 - 04:57 AM, said:

Rossi is a combination of many factors:

1. Italian, son of a racer. Gets the best sponsorship and best bike
2. Showman. Gets the best sponsorship and best bike
3. Raced against guys with less talent for years


I don't follow GP, I'll occasionally catch a race and marvel at the skill.


Not one of these arguments holds a drop of water... It all sounds like the fat kid whining why the tall guy made the basketball team and he didn't.



1) If I was the son of an Italian racer I wouldn't get the best sponsorship or bike. Why? Because I can't ride at the highest levels of performance.
2) If I were a tremendous showman and looked good in leathers I couldn't get the best sponsorship or bikes. Why? Because I can't ride at that level or win races.
3) Of course he raced against guys with less talent for years.... He is better than them. I guess because his father was Italian. (Damn my luck to have German ancestry)


As for all the other thoughts on why you feel the world bends to Rossi's whim.... the answer is much easier to explain than your convoluted "conspiracy theory"...... Follow the money. Where is all that money coming from? From the guy that can be relied on to bring home world championships and haul in the fans. Is he bringing in all those fans with their dollars and winning those races because he looks good in leather and had an Italian father while racing on the same tires as everyone else? You're going to have to bring a better argument to convince me of that.

Rossi was getting a bit cocky after he saw that his pace was much faster than most of the grid. Saw his chances of getting on the podium improve. Got a bit impatient and made the move on stoner, couldn't hold i, and lost the front. Rossi made the smart move of holding onto the bike and pulling the clutch in. Stoner didn't really have a choice what he did, and fell off the bike. Marshalls run to Rossi first because A) the bike was on him, and B) Stoner managed to lift his bike up before they got there. The pat on the back was for trying to tell Rossi to get on the bike instead of doing whatever he was trying to do, not because they were cheering him on/up or whatever people thought. Once Rossi was on the bike, Stoner yelled at them for help to push, and everyone did. Did ALL of them have to run to Rossi. No.

And that's part of the technology game. Have a really awesome gearbox, but impossible to bump start. Not much different than buying a fancy new car with all sort of electric gizmos. If something breaks, no way you're going to fix it on your own.

I just remembered the famous incident when Shumi (Not a son of any Italian) had spun out and his Ferrari and high-centered on the curb, still running but with rear wheels in the air, marshals came over and gave him a push and he rejoined the race. It was easier than waiting for a cherry-picker to pull him behind the wall.

Now because this happened in Germany, and German marshals helped dominant German driver get back in the race in a Ferrari, that seemed unstoppable at the time, the huge shit storm erupted about accepting help. Regulations do state that drivers are not to be aided by marshals, unless they are in dangerous situation, which this was, an outside of the turn, and they did resolve it best way they could. Conspiracy theorists were going nuts about how Schumi gets all the lucky breaks, while simplest explanation is that he makes his own luck: He never gives up, thinks ahead. Most drivers shut the engine the moment car gets stuck in gravel, 7 time world Champion Michael Schumacher doe not, even in the last place on the track he pushes it to the limit, like every second counts, and it pays off, more than once he scored points when everyone else would have given up. Rossi much the same, he was outside the points and in GP that is where you stay, almost impossible to catch up, but he just kept on pushing and finished 5th, and that is a true Champion.

I've seen that video several times and don't see how anyone can say Rossi was shown favoritism. It doesn't look to me like he was.

Over the years, a lot of people have bashed Pedrosa for the mistake he made when trying to overtake Hayden (everybody knows the incident I'm talking about.) What these same people fail to mention is that Pedrosa was still in the points race and still had a chance at winning the championship. However slim the chance may have been, it was still there. All these guys are professionals. They are literally the best in the world and are highly, highly competitive people. Pedrosa knew he still had a chance. He was doing everything within his ability to win (just like everybody else.) Just like the Stoner / Sete and Rossi / Stoner incidents, Pedrosa made a mistake (and it certainly wasn't done on purpose.) Stuff like this happens in racing. Plain and simple.

Let's not forget that when Rossi and Lorenzo were teammates, Rossi saw early on that Lorenzo was a serious threat. What did he do? He did everything he could to keep Yamaha from sharing any of his track data with Lorenzo. Rossi's position was that although Lorenzo was his teammate, he was still a competitor. Just like Hayden was to Pedrosa.

Going back to Pedrosa, I get sick and fuc*ing tired of people bashing him over that incident in 2006.

The Pedrosa/Hayden incident happened in Estoril (the second to the last race of the season –Valencia being the last.) Going into the race, these were the standings:

1) Hayden – 236 points
2) Rossi – 224 points
3) Melandri – 209 points
4) Capirossi – 205 points
5) Pedrosa – 202 points


Going into Estoril, consider the facts:

1) There were two races (Donnington Park and Brno) where Hayden didn’t even finish in the top five.
2) Rossi had crashed three times that season (Shanghai, Le Mans, and Laguna Seca.) He got 0 points in each of these races.
3) Melandri and Capirossi were just barely having a better season than Pedrosa. Melandri had seven points on him while Capirossi had three.
4) Pedrosa had two 1st place finishes, two 2nd place finishes, and four 3rd place finishes.

First place is worth 25 points, second is worth 20, third is worth 16, fourth is worth 13, and fifth is worth 11.

When you consider the above, any number of scenarios could have played out in Pedrosa's favor. The championship was within striking distance for Pedrosa. He knew this and did what everybody else would have done: He went for it.

Pedrosa does not deserve all the $hit he’s taken from people over the years regarding this incident.

MotoGP?

Motorcycles?

Stoner who? :mellow:


I watch MotoGP for the












[image: Posted Image]

[image: Posted Image]


[image: Posted Image]


:biggrin:

They have announced an investigation into the marshall's behaviour. Though looking at that second vid I (haven't watched the race yet) there isn't as much of all to Rossi and then to Stoner as I had the impression of from comments everywhere.

The riders better watch out, a possible result is that FIM declares marshall's aren't to help restart bikes and help riders to rejoin...

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 07 April 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

Wait a year and that Duc will be winning races

Wait a year for that Duc that that won three of the last six races in 2010 to be winning races.

Fixed that for you :laughing6-hehe:

[image: View Post]2FAST4U, on 07 April 2011 - 12:35 PM, said:

Going back to Pedrosa, I get sick and fuc*ing tired of people bashing him over that incident in 2006.

The Pedrosa/Hayden incident happened in Estoril (the second to the last race of the season �Valencia being the last.) Going into the race, these were the standings:

1) Hayden � 236 points
2) Rossi � 224 points
3) Melandri � 209 points
4) Capirossi � 205 points
5) Pedrosa � 202 points


Going into Estoril, consider the facts:

1) There were two races (Donnington Park and Brno) where Hayden didn�t even finish in the top five.
2) Rossi had crashed three times that season (Shanghai, Le Mans, and Laguna Seca.) He got 0 points in each of these races.
3) Melandri and Capirossi were just barely having a better season than Pedrosa. Melandri had seven points on him while Capirossi had three.
4) Pedrosa had two 1st place finishes, two 2nd place finishes, and four 3rd place finishes.

First place is worth 25 points, second is worth 20, third is worth 16, fourth is worth 13, and fifth is worth 11.

When you consider the above, any number of scenarios could have played out in Pedrosa's favor. The championship was within striking distance for Pedrosa. He knew this and did what everybody else would have done: He went for it.

Pedrosa does not deserve all the $hit he�s taken from people over the years regarding this incident.



Pedrosa is still a dick although not as prickish as Alberto Puig.

I am truly overjoyed with Stoner on the now dominant Honda and Super Sic up and coming and Jorge doing so well on the Yamaha. Overjoyed that the great midget hype that is perdrosa will most likely never win a premier class championship.

He was in 5th place 34 points down on the first place rider with two races left in the season. A total of 50 poiints availabel to him IF HE WON BOTH REMAINING RACES. Those 50 points added to his total would have meant that the points leader would have to finish below 8th position in each of the final two races for him to win the championship.

Honda was over a barrel, they had been screwing Nicky as the development rider for the shitty 800cc clutch all year (contributing to his "two races where didn't even finish in the top five) knowing that they had developed the 800 cc bike for someone who just happens to be 5' 1" tall and weighs 103lbs (probably with wet leathers on).

Additionally if Nicky were to win the chaomionship he would cause them to look like asses for canning him in favor of Dani. Additionally they had agreed to a clause in his contract that stated if he won the championship then he could keep his championship winning RC211V (what do you think a real factory MotoGP ride would cost to purchase? >$1,000,000?)

You don't have to be a Hayden fan or know how much he sacrificed to get where he is. You can read Rossi's comments on loosing the championship to Hayden in 2006 for some insight into what kind of person Nicky is.

But this question, if asked and answered honestly, will tell you more about the character of the two involved than anything else:
If Hayden had been in 5th place, down 34 points to his TEAM MATE with 2 races to go, would he have had his head so far up his ass that he hit Dani so hard that the impact tore tissue in his shoulder? I am not talking about a racing mistake, loosing the front with an "optimistic move" I am talking about a move that could never work, has never worked and will never work. This may be the most damning evidence that Nicky will never win another championship in MotoGP (even with a return to liter bikes and reduction in electronic nannies), he simply would not have done to Pedrosa what Pedrosa did to him. You sound as though you think that is what it takes to be a champion.

Over the past few years I have cooled a bit in my animosity towards Dani but it is because i think Alberto was whispering in his ear. I don't think Dani makes a decision on which of the 3 Repsol primary colors to select as his scivvie choice for qualifying, much less whether or not to put another man's life's work and career in jeopardy by trying what could only generously be called an idiotic move.

I hope to see you at TxMac so we can continue to discuss this over a pop in the parking lot. :fing02: I promise not ram into you so hard that the impact wrenching the bars from your hands tears your shoulder.

[image: View Post]The Phantom, on 07 April 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 07 April 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

Wait a year and that Duc will be winning races

Wait a year for that Duc that that won three of the last six races in 2010 to be winning races.

Fixed that for you :laughing6-hehe:


All the indications are that last year Yamaha was still the best bike on the grid.
If Lorenzo was going all out and not worried about points and Rossi was healthy, those 3 race wins would have been none, just saying.
Jorge dominating the last two races once the championship was decided is a proof to that.

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 07 April 2011 - 08:22 PM, said:

[image: View Post]2FAST4U, on 07 April 2011 - 12:35 PM, said:

Going back to Pedrosa, I get sick and fuc*ing tired of people bashing him over that incident in 2006.

The Pedrosa/Hayden incident happened in Estoril (the second to the last race of the season –Valencia being the last.) Going into the race, these were the standings:

1) Hayden – 236 points
2) Rossi – 224 points
3) Melandri – 209 points
4) Capirossi – 205 points
5) Pedrosa – 202 points


Going into Estoril, consider the facts:

1) There were two races (Donnington Park and Brno) where Hayden didn’t even finish in the top five.
2) Rossi had crashed three times that season (Shanghai, Le Mans, and Laguna Seca.) He got 0 points in each of these races.
3) Melandri and Capirossi were just barely having a better season than Pedrosa. Melandri had seven points on him while Capirossi had three.
4) Pedrosa had two 1st place finishes, two 2nd place finishes, and four 3rd place finishes.

First place is worth 25 points, second is worth 20, third is worth 16, fourth is worth 13, and fifth is worth 11.

When you consider the above, any number of scenarios could have played out in Pedrosa's favor. The championship was within striking distance for Pedrosa. He knew this and did what everybody else would have done: He went for it.

Pedrosa does not deserve all the $hit he’s taken from people over the years regarding this incident.



Pedrosa is still a dick although not as prickish as Alberto Puig.

I am truly overjoyed with Stoner on the now dominant Honda and Super Sic up and coming and Jorge doing so well on the Yamaha. Overjoyed that the great midget hype that is perdrosa will most likely never win a premier class championship.

He was in 5th place 34 points down on the first place rider with two races left in the season. A total of 50 poiints availabel to him IF HE WON BOTH REMAINING RACES. Those 50 points added to his total would have meant that the points leader would have to finish below 8th position in each of the final two races for him to win the championship.

Honda was over a barrel, they had been screwing Nicky as the development rider for the shitty 800cc clutch all year (contributing to his "two races where didn't even finish in the top five) knowing that they had developed the 800 cc bike for someone who just happens to be 5' 1" tall and weighs 103lbs (probably with wet leathers on).

Additionally if Nicky were to win the chaomionship he would cause them to look like asses for canning him in favor of Dani. Additionally they had agreed to a clause in his contract that stated if he won the championship then he could keep his championship winning RC211V (what do you think a real factory MotoGP ride would cost to purchase? >$1,000,000?)

You don't have to be a Hayden fan or know how much he sacrificed to get where he is. You can read Rossi's comments on loosing the championship to Hayden in 2006 for some insight into what kind of person Nicky is.

But this question, if asked and answered honestly, will tell you more about the character of the two involved than anything else:
If Hayden had been in 5th place, down 34 points to his TEAM MATE with 2 races to go, would he have had his head so far up his ass that he hit Dani so hard that the impact tore tissue in his shoulder? I am not talking about a racing mistake, loosing the front with an "optimistic move" I am talking about a move that could never work, has never worked and will never work. This may be the most damning evidence that Nicky will never win another championship in MotoGP (even with a return to liter bikes and reduction in electronic nannies), he simply would not have done to Pedrosa what Pedrosa did to him. You sound as though you think that is what it takes to be a champion.

Over the past few years I have cooled a bit in my animosity towards Dani but it is because i think Alberto was whispering in his ear. I don't think Dani makes a decision on which of the 3 Repsol primary colors to select as his scivvie choice for qualifying, much less whether or not to put another man's life's work and career in jeopardy by trying what could only generously be called an idiotic move.

I hope to see you at TxMac so we can continue to discuss this over a pop in the parking lot. :fing02: I promise not ram into you so hard that the impact wrenching the bars from your hands tears your shoulder.


I think you need to recheck your facts.

You state that Pedrosa will most likely never win a premier class championship. Maybe you're unaware he won the MotoGP championship (125 class) in 2003 and in 2004 and 2005 he won the MotoGP championship (250 class). In 2006, his first year in the full-sized class, he finished 5th overall. In 2007 he finished 2nd overall. In 2008, 2009, and 2010 he finished 3rd overall. Although he hasn't won the championshiop in the full sized class, he certainly has what it takes.

I never said or implied that Pedrosa was going to win the final two races of 2006 (although, since he got first place in both Shanghai and Donnington Park that season, it was possible.) Hayden finished 7th at Donnington Park and 9th at Brno (average = 8th).

Pedrosa is 5'2" and weighs 112 lbs. His ability to handle the size and immense power of a full sized MotoGP bike speaks volumes.

Hayden has indeed sacrificed a lot to get as far as he's gotten. What MotoGP participant hasn't? MotoGP is the world's premier championship of motorcycle road racing and only a select few are good enough to race in it. Every single one of them has sacrificed a lot to get there.

You refer to Pedrosa's move at Estoril as idiotic and something that could never work. I think you need to go back and look at the video of the crash again. I've seen it a dozen times and all 12 times it was a case of Pedrosa low siding into Hayden. Pedrosa's bike was completely on the ground as it slid into Hayden's bike. This is exactly what Rossi (undeniably the greatest motorcycle road racer to ever live) recently did to Stoner. They were accidents and nothing else.

Regarding the surgery Hayden required as a result of the Pedrosa/Hayden crash at Estoril, you said Hayden will never win another championship again because of it. If that were the case, it's funny how he actually won the championship two weeks later in Valencia.

For the record, I think Nicky Hayden is a great person through and through. For the record, I was rooting for him in 2006. And for the record, he most certainly has what it takes to win another championship.

[image: View Post]hondarv4, on 07 April 2011 - 05:12 AM, said:

[image: View Post]2thdr, on 07 April 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

I was rooting for Colin Edwards and Ben Spies and was sad to see them both crash out...Ben seemed to really be doing well in the wet and Colin had a chance to get 4th at least.

The texas tornado didn't crash, his yammie just didn't want to see the checkered flag!


I forgot about that...with everyone running off the track it was hard to keep them straight! Wish the conditions hadn't been so bad...

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 07 April 2011 - 07:49 AM, said:

As for "gets best of the best" it's not true, look at Yamaha when he joined the team, it SUCKED! Rossi is a great development rider, he was able to get that bike where it is today, they won a bunch of championships and even Jorge's current #1 plate is in part due to Valentino's development of the bike.


Bollocks. You guys go on and on about how "Rossi made the bike go fast". YAMAHA made the bike go fast by building the world's first long crank inline 4.

Once again, this is perfect demonstration of the "perception" of Rossi rather than the reality. Yes, you need a rider who can tell you what they feel is wrong and be *correct* so that the right mods are made, but that is all.

Also this is really disrespectful to the engineers of these bikes, who really are the talent behind making them go fast. The rider is a feedback mechanism to the engineer! Get a sucky rider, have sucky feedback and the bike goes slow. Have a sucky engineer and you get the same problem.

In 2007, Preziosi - the Ducati lead designer - stated that Stoner was riding the Ducati exactly as it was designed. They simulated the braking points, turn in points, lean angles and where to get on the gas; Stoner nailed it lap after lap, race after race. This is an example of the engineer and rider to a level of harmony where both can achieve their aims. The next few years - health issues aside - the problems were that the engineering went in a direction which made it difficult for the rider to extract performance from the bike.

Funny how Stoner still managed to make the bike go fast, but nobody else could. Still nobody wanted to say Stoner is talented. Nope, instead we get fluffy reasons why he's shit, a whinger, a prick, a loser, etc and Rossi must be worshipped.

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 07 April 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

As for all the other thoughts on why you feel the world bends to Rossi's whim.... the answer is much easier to explain than your convoluted "conspiracy theory"...... Follow the money. Where is all that money coming from? From the guy that can be relied on to bring home world championships and haul in the fans. Is he bringing in all those fans with their dollars and winning those races because he looks good in leather and had an Italian father while racing on the same tires as everyone else? You're going to have to bring a better argument to convince me of that.


The FIM have shot themselves in the foot by building their entire business model around one guy. The day Rossi leaves they're going to be in financial trouble.

And I disagree that my argument is wrong. Sure he wouldn't get any money if he wasn't talented, but the argument that he's the best of all time because of his skill is a fallacy. He is both good and lucky.
I'm not saying there is anything inherently wrong with that; the point I'm making is that people believe he is the best using reasons based on a fallacy, and anyone who speaks against him is immediately ridiculed and hated.

I will bet that if Rossi with the Ducati doesn't develop into an awesome bike, this year OR next year, the fans will have a "perfect reason" as to why it's not Rossi's fault. However if you take the exact same situation but replace the word "Rossi" with "Stoner" there would be a bunch of reasons as to why it's all Stoner's fault.

Witness all the crap from the last few years:
- Stoner is only winning because the electronics are the best. Can't possibly be his talent.
- Stoner is only crashing because he's a shit rider. Can't possibly be the bike.

So when he wins, it's the bike being awesome, and then when he crashes he's a shit rider?

[image: View Post]Frogfoot, on 07 April 2011 - 02:29 PM, said:

The riders better watch out, a possible result is that FIM declares marshall's aren't to help restart bikes and help riders to rejoin...

I agree - this is the only possible workable solution for fairness. No rider is allowed assistance to lift or start a crashed bike. Honda will be worse off here because their bike is notoriously difficult to bump start.

All those things you say people are saying about Stoner isn't what I read or hear in the United States. Overall, we have a favorable view of him.

[image: View Post]2FAST4U, on 08 April 2011 - 12:31 AM, said:

All those things you say people are saying about Stoner isn't what I read or hear in the United States. Overall, we have a favorable view of him.


Mainly UK racing fans, he seems to get due respect in continental Europe. They whinge about Stoner being a whinger hehehe. Think they need to get out and get some sun.

[image: View Post]The Phantom, on 08 April 2011 - 01:22 AM, said:

[image: View Post]2FAST4U, on 08 April 2011 - 12:31 AM, said:

All those things you say people are saying about Stoner isn't what I read or hear in the United States. Overall, we have a favorable view of him.


Mainly UK racing fans, he seems to get due respect in continental Europe. They whinge about Stoner being a whinger hehehe. Think they need to get out and get some sun.

Maybe it strikes too close to home, because there are a bunch of Aussies saying he's a whinger too. Rossi fans, of course.

To be honest I think part of the reason I get so fired up about Rossi is that it's connected with people who consider themselves "riders" but have a bad attitude in general. I see a lot of what I consider Squids with Rossi merchandise and it's like taking the two things I have an issue with, then handing me gasoline and a match.

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 07 April 2011 - 11:28 PM, said:

In 2007, Preziosi - the Ducati lead designer - stated that Stoner was riding the Ducati exactly as it was designed. They simulated the braking points, turn in points, lean angles and where to get on the gas; Stoner nailed it lap after lap, race after race. This is an example of the engineer and rider to a level of harmony where both can achieve their aims. The next few years - health issues aside - the problems were that the engineering went in a direction which made it difficult for the rider to extract performance from the bike.

Funny how Stoner still managed to make the bike go fast, but nobody else could. Still nobody wanted to say Stoner is talented. Nope, instead we get fluffy reasons why he's shit, a whinger, a prick, a loser, etc and Rossi must be worshipped.

It may not be Rossi' s fans who acknowledge Stoners talent, at least Rossi himself does:

Rossi said:

"Casey is very good at opening the throttle and straightening up the bike, but I understood this without looking at the telemetry. This is something that, especially with the spec tires which give less performance, is important for going fast. It's a trick, but it's a difficult one that Casey knows how to do pretty well. It's also important because riding like that puts the bike in less trouble, so we may need to learn it..."

Some comments from other riders who have seen Stoner's telemetry:

Andrea Dovizioso said:

I saw Stoner's telemetry, and his throttle control is incredibly delicate. He also uses very little traction control.
It's not that you get discouraged by how fine his riding is, but it does bother you a bit. Casey is able to use the best 'angle,' meaning that he can open the throttle with the bike as straight as possible. It's not true that he is leaning more than others in the corners: he is leaning his body very far, but the bike is staying more upright.

Loris Capirossi said:

“Looking at Stoner's telemetry with the Ducati, you can understand that he rides it very well, but it's also true that his style cannot be replicated; he really uses the rear brake a lot, and he's applying a lot of pressure on it in situations where it's difficult to do so. In situations where I'm not able to do the same. On the contrary, he is very smooth on the front brake, using constant pressure with it.
GPone.com

[image: Posted Image]
:happy:

[image: View Post]Dutchy, on 07 April 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

MotoGP?
Motorcycles?
Stoner who? :mellow:
I watch MotoGP for the..
John Hopkins was glad to be back with Suzuki too :laugh:
[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]YoshiHNS, on 07 April 2011 - 08:45 AM, said:

Rossi was getting a bit cocky after he saw that his pace was much faster than most of the grid. Saw his chances of getting on the podium improve. Got a bit impatient and made the move on stoner, couldn't hold i, and lost the front. Rossi made the smart move of holding onto the bike and pulling the clutch in. Stoner didn't really have a choice what he did, and fell off the bike. Marshalls run to Rossi first because A) the bike was on him, and B) Stoner managed to lift his bike up before they got there. The pat on the back was for trying to tell Rossi to get on the bike instead of doing whatever he was trying to do, not because they were cheering him on/up or whatever people thought. Once Rossi was on the bike, Stoner yelled at them for help to push, and everyone did. Did ALL of them have to run to Rossi. No.

And that's part of the technology game. Have a really awesome gearbox, but impossible to bump start. Not much different than buying a fancy new car with all sort of electric gizmos. If something breaks, no way you're going to fix it on your own.


Cocky for sure, but maybe a bit desperate too? Everybody was sliding around (and crashing) but to me, Rossi seemed more out of control than the rest.

[image: View Post]2FAST4U, on 07 April 2011 - 10:22 PM, said:

I think you need to recheck your facts.

You state that Pedrosa will most likely never win a premier class championship. Maybe you're unaware he won the MotoGP championship (125 class) in 2003 and in 2004 and 2005 he won the MotoGP championship (250 class). In 2006, his first year in the full-sized class, he finished 5th overall. In 2007 he finished 2nd overall. In 2008, 2009, and 2010 he finished 3rd overall. Although he hasn't won the championshiop in the full sized class, he certainly has what it takes.

I never said or implied that Pedrosa was going to win the final two races of 2006 (although, since he got first place in both Shanghai and Donnington Park that season, it was possible.) Hayden finished 7th at Donnington Park and 9th at Brno (average = 8th).

Pedrosa is 5'2" and weighs 112 lbs. His ability to handle the size and immense power of a full sized MotoGP bike speaks volumes.

Hayden has indeed sacrificed a lot to get as far as he's gotten. What MotoGP participant hasn't? MotoGP is the world's premier championship of motorcycle road racing and only a select few are good enough to race in it. Every single one of them has sacrificed a lot to get there.

You refer to Pedrosa's move at Estoril as idiotic and something that could never work. I think you need to go back and look at the video of the crash again. I've seen it a dozen times and all 12 times it was a case of Pedrosa low siding into Hayden. Pedrosa's bike was completely on the ground as it slid into Hayden's bike. This is exactly what Rossi (undeniably the greatest motorcycle road racer to ever live) recently did to Stoner. They were accidents and nothing else.

Regarding the surgery Hayden required as a result of the Pedrosa/Hayden crash at Estoril, you said Hayden will never win another championship again because of it. If that were the case, it's funny how he actually won the championship two weeks later in Valencia.

For the record, I think Nicky Hayden is a great person through and through. For the record, I was rooting for him in 2006. And for the record, he most certainly has what it takes to win another championship.



You need to recheck your facts. There is no series called MotoGP 125. There is a 125 Grapnd Prix series just as there exists no series called MotoGP 250. There used to be a 250 class in grand prix motorcycle racing, since replaced by the Moto2 class. None of these three classes is the premier class for grand Prix Motorcycle racing, the former 500cc GP class and the current MotoGP class are the only premier class in GP motorcycle racing. Pedrosa has NEVER won a championship at the Premier level. Max Biaggi, a 4 time 250 GP champ and current WSBK champ has never won a premier class GP championship. Those are the facts.

Pedrosa's move at Estoril was IDIOTIC. I have watched it dozens of times, 10 times the day of the race and three times as many as that since the race. I have an annual subscription to the MotoGP videos and just watched it again. You can choose to see it as simply a case of Dani lowsiding into Nicky only if you are not in the least bit objective. Everyone on the paddock interviews afterwards indicated otherwise, as does the video. Nicky passed Pedrosa on lap 4 because Edwards had gotten aback by Dani and was letting Vale get away. The first 4 laps the announcers were talking about the way Edwards was helping Vale and how Dani could help Nicky. IT was all about how close the points were between the top two riders Rossi and Hayden and how the race would shake out. There was also discussion about how crappy the Honda of Hayden (who was testing the small clutch needed for the 800 next year) had gotten the past 4 races and that had tightened up the points race.

On lap 5, seeing red at Hayden having passed him Dani got in way too deep, from three bike lengths back he took a much altered line straignt into the apex, clipped the rumble strips, crapped his pants, and plowed into so hard in Hayden that it wrenched the bars from his hands and tore tissue in his shoulder. Idiotic move. Those are the facts. Listen to the annoluncers on lap 4 talking how much teramwork was being displayed by CEII and Vale on the Yamaha team compared to how hard Dani was making for nicky to score points or move up.

I wasn't clear in why Nicky will never win another MotoGP championship, it is not because of the damage to his shoulder sustanined in that idiotic move. It is because he is not the type of person who would run over his team mate to move up from 5th to 3rd in points.

Even next year when they are back on 1,000cc bikes which favor Haydens riding style (and which he and Rossi laid down some laps on today) i don't think he has the talent to get to that consistent level that is displayed by Stoner, Rossi, Lorenzo and (with a 1000cc bike next year) Spies.

He has the work ethic, the training regimen, the desire and everything you can bring to the table but he may be only one of the top 8 or 9 riders in the world at this stage. Just as I think that Pedrosa's window has been closed by Casey returning to the dominant (again) Honda and the emergence of Spies and Simoncelli along with the Yamaha/Lorenzo package I am not lacking in objectivity enough to say that Hayden can win another championship. The odds are even more against him than they were in 2006.

5'2" 112 lbs is an 11 year old soccer player, female soccer player but if you can post a picture of Dani tipping the scales at a beefy 112 I will buy you a pint a TxMac. your choice on the beer.

BTW, Pedrosa finished 6th at Qatar, 14th at Turkey, DNF at Catalunya, 15th at Philip Island, and 7th in Japan....any of which in the final two races would have had him dropping from 5th in points at Portugal and even mathematically out of the championship discussion.

Love the pic of Hopper :laughing6-hehe: I was very happy to see him back on the GSXV and hope we see him on it again. He did a hell of a job at Jerez - there's no-one (that could have stepped up to take the ride) who could have done it better than he did.

Hayden has also commented on Stoner's throttle control. It does seem to be one of the things that elevates his riding to the 'alien' level. His dad Colin has said that Stoner intends to retire at 30, so we have 4-5 years left to see just what level he can reach. He's certainly not afraid to turn it up to 11 so he might be pretty fearsome on a 1000cc bike.

As for Pedrosa - very bad move on Hayden in 2006 for sure, but Hayden took the title so maybe we can forget about it now? I've never thought Pedrosa to be at the level of the other three (not swayed by the Hayden incident) but since the start of the 2010 season my respect for him has grown race by race. He is truly a serious contender these days and is one of the few riders who races as fairly and cleanly as Stoner - Estoril 2006 was most definitely an abberation. Give him another chance guys - save the vitriol for Albert Puig.

I really don't think I'm not being objective. If I had been rooting for Pedrosa, that would be different. But I wasn't. I wanted Hayden to win because A) he's American, and B) he was racing a Honda.

The incident in question was not particularly unusual. Does anybody recall the crash earlier that season (at Sachsenring) when Roberts got into a turn too hot and took Tamada out? It was Tamada’s best race of the season. The real difference was they were on different teams. Both were fighting for a top 5 showing around mid-season, however.

Pedrosa was never given instructions from HRC to let Hayden win. I've read that in several places. Maybe it's because going into the race they knew Pedrosa still had a mathematical chance at winning the championship. After Estoril (when Pedrosa now had no mathematical chance of winning the championship) is when I'd bet HRC instructed him help Hayden (and rightly so.)

Nobody denies that Pedrosa made a mistake (but to be bashing him for it, given all the facts, is uncalled for.) That's all I'm saying.

Let's hope we get to see some good racing this year. It would be way cool if I could catch the race at Indy. :fing02:

Cornercarver - I can't make T-Mac this year. Maybe one day we can meet up at Deals Gap, though. I've never been and have always wanted to go. I'll buy you a beer! :beer:

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 06 April 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

As for personalities, I happen to like most Aussies, even whiny ones. In fact I can only think of one I really disliked, long before his AMA domination, always thought Mladin was a tosser.


Check the timing sheet below:

[image: Posted Image]


Gawd how BADLY I wanted to see Mladin replace Bautista on the Suck-zuki at Qatar.

My ultimate fantasy was to see him get hizazz handed to him by both Abraham and Barbera. :laughing6-hehe:

Dammit anyhow. :pissed:

They all make mistakes, they are only human and in the heat of the battle when adrenalin is pumping a banzai pass from 3 bike length back might seem like a good idea.
Any of you ever been there, I mean in the race (not track day) fighting for the lead? I have and things look different!

What I'm trying to say enough Stoner-Rossi-Perdosa etc. bashing, I'm not a Pedrosa fan but I'm not gonna bring up that incident to defend Rossi, water under the bridge.

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 08 April 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

They all make mistakes, they are only human and in the heat of the battle when adrenalin is pumping a banzai pass from 3 bike length back might seem like a good idea.
Any of you ever been there, I mean in the race (not track day) fighting for the lead? I have and things look different!

What I'm trying to say enough Stoner-Rossi-Perdosa etc. bashing, I'm not a Pedrosa fan but I'm not gonna bring up that incident to defend Rossi, water under the bridge.


:+1:

No one is going to always make the best decision in every single circumstance. The results can be unfortunate, but it's a simple fact.

And shame on SamW for saying "I am always happy to see Rossi wreck"

This isn't nascar, I had hoped that people who watch motorcycle racing do so for the thrill of seeing riders balancing on a razors edge, not sitting and waiting for a huge crash. As much as I dislike some riders, I'd never say that I wanted them to crash and risk serious injury. That's just an ignorant statement.

[image: View Post]Veefer800Canuck, on 08 April 2011 - 09:32 PM, said:

Check the timing sheet below:


A little off topic, but some inportant info on that sheet: Twice the number of riders on the starting grid!!

No worries on Pedrosa, I have actually come to resepct him more the past year as he has actually fought for wins. I felt before that he was handed everything because he is Spanish and Repsol is as well so he was groomed for this and given more than every opportunity but last year from mid season on he actually won or podium races where he was pressured by other riders. In those instances yearas past he seemed to always crumble fall or have a moment and lose half a second.

The first thing I noticed about that timing sheet (well, second after noting that Mladin was almost 5 seconds down on pole) was there were 34 bikes on the grid...we struggle to reach 15 now...did anyone hear the Ducati 1000 GP12 exhaust note today?

Amazing.

Those names on the timing sheet bring some memories...

I remember watching the Italian race and commentators were going on and on about Rainey, "... surely nothing can stop him now from winning another Championship title..." were the words I remember, just as he crashed, marshals came over and he was not getting up, they got those movable hay bales while they tried to get him on the stretcher or something. I watched that race only once, no DVR back then, so details are vague, but I remember that moment thinking "something is wrong" and couple days later it was made public that he had suffered a spinal cord injury that left him paraplegic.

Where are those great american riders now? for a while it was US domination with Roberts, Lawson, Spencer, Rainey and Schwantz taking titles back to back.
Roberts Jr did it one year on Suzuki and Nicky most recent but that's 2 championship titles in almost 20 years

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 08 April 2011 - 11:28 PM, said:

Where are those great american riders now? for a while it was US domination with Roberts, Lawson, Spencer, Rainey and Schwantz taking titles back to back.
Roberts Jr did it one year on Suzuki and Nicky most recent but that's 2 championship titles in almost 20 years

Spies will take the title in the next year or two. :ph34r:

cornercarver, on 08 April 2011 - 11:02 PM, said: did anyone hear the Ducati 1000 GP12 exhaust note today? Amazing. Here is a small clip:

You all got it wrong. See Dutchy's post.

Dutchy > Rossi + Stoner :cheerleader:

:fing02:

Personally, I wouldn't want to see MotoGP go back to twice as many riders per race. Rather, I'd like to see twice as many manufacturers. I realize fielding a MotoGP team is expensive but I still wouldn't mind seeing MV Agusta, Aprilia, BMW, Triumph, and Kawasaki out there. I'm sure British and German racing fans would be thrilled to see their country field a team.

[image: View Post]MadMike, on 08 April 2011 - 10:36 PM, said:

[
And shame on SamW for saying "I am always happy to see Rossi wreck"

This isn't nascar, I had hoped that people who watch motorcycle racing do so for the thrill of seeing riders balancing on a razors edge, not sitting and waiting for a huge crash. As much as I dislike some riders, I'd never say that I wanted them to crash and risk serious injury. That's just an ignorant statement.


Geez, come on, grow a pair, this ain't Disney Land. I have been watching MotoGP and WSBK racing since the Rainey Days, been to my fair share of AMA races, I never said I wished any harm on Rossi, I just like to see him take himself out of races so the camera will follow someone else. I have been a Biaggi fan since the 250 days, so it is natural to dislike Rossi. And it is easy to miss read wrecks and have the general population see a wreck the way they want to. Had a huge argument about the Haga Biaggi wreck a few years ago in WSBK, everyone blames Biaggi for that, but watching the Video, Haga hit Biaggi mid bike heading to an appex from the outside of Biaggi, but the front wheet of Biaggi's was in front and he was till on two wheels.

wow such passion lol

I don't care too much about the bagging Stoner gets from people who don't like him for one simple reason, everybody has favorites in any sport & people follow the team or individual they prefer with passion, but if you take the team or individual out of the sport you don't like then there isn't going to be much entertainment.

I happen to admire every rider on the motogp grid for one simple reason, they have reached a level that us arm chair critics will never achieve.

I support Stoner not just because I'm Australian, but because of his level of commitment to the art of motorcycle riding & the way he achieved it which allot of people are unaware of because people you don't support you don't bother looking into there history.

Stoner is only were he is today because of his parents commitment to there son & sold there home to finance his dream as there is more or less zero backing for our motorcycle sportsman in Australia, can anyone point out any other rider in motogp who's parents needed to sell there home to support there son & take the gamble he would reach a level that would support his & there future. Stoner because he is Australian & a country boy shoots from the hip & what he thinks he expresses which in my world is refreshing, to many people over time have been programmed to believe the media hype & want everything to smell like roses. Those that bag Stoner have you ever met him or even Rossi, probably not so you take your views from media hype, now who is the pathetic one then.

I can't believe some of the stuff people bother to post about Stoner just because he speaks his mind at the spur of the moment, you would rather the PR & carefully worded scripts. You can't speak to Rossi unless you go through his boy friend & believe me Rossi is a wanker in real life just go into any establishment that has housed or served him & ask the staff, you know people like us who have real jobs & work from pay check to pay check. Stoner on the other hand is directly approachable & you will be surprised how down to earth the guy is.

Motogp is a business pure & simple & Rossi is there draw card, last year they lost 1000's of viewers simply because Rossi wasn't racing when he hurt his shoulder, Stoner or anybody else simply can't replace the draw power of Rossi because he is a 9 times world champ & comes from Italy so all of Europe follow him. This is also why Rossi gets away with things others wouldn't even under the catch cry "it's racing".

As far as I'm concerned if you have to have an opinion on the events that unfolded last race, Rossi had a major brain fart. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see Rossi was never going to make that corner, even if he has made such a pass before for two simple reasons, the very slippery track & his own admission the duc has a front end problem, maybe he might have made that pass stick on the M1 but he is on the duc now. It also depends what media you read or believe but he has come out & said he wasn't passing Stoner but trying to avoid him which means he really should have gone straight ahead & run off track but took the inside because Stoner gave him room. In a way I'm happy it happened because Stoner in current form & on the Honda doesn't have to win every race just be consistent but now he has points to make up & will push & ride the way that makes watching him out weight what comes out of his mouth.

I close with a simple statement that the designer of the Duc GP11 said when asked what do you fear 2011 "STONER"

My opinion:

I hear you kaldek. And, agree with most of what you are saying.

It has taken poor Pedrosa a looooong time to be forgiven for what he did to Hayden. We all (well, most of us Americans) wanted to see Nicky kickass so it sucked when Pedro wrecked him. However, Ped was in contention, and I think most sane people would agree he was in the top 3 for outright speed for that season.

I think the little guy has shown he has the heart of a Champion!! The only person who'd deny that is just a hater who isn't worth listening to.

Good 'ol 46 can torpedo a different guy every race and folks would be talking about his "passion", and his "mindgames" and "mental fortitude" or whatever. Imo, he's the greatest of all time (gonna put this in bold for the fanboyz), but damn he gets away with murder frequently.



It all still comes down to this: That is racing. Rossi clearly f*cked up. He brought the media parade in with him to apologize like a doofus, but he did take responsibility. Stoner has made mistakes, too. It happens.

But, If Rossi and Sic weren't out there banging off everyone's fairings like bulls in a China shop then it would be fairly boring. Sheesh, the whole grid rode like that back in Rainey's time. God forbid you get outside of Kevin Schwantz, because he'll use your leg for a berm as he goes by.


This year I'd like to see a good clean fight between the little guys. Pedrosa, Stoner, and Lorenzo. These guys have proven at least to me that they are the fastest guys out there, statistics or whatever else be da**ed. Mix in Spies, Rossi, Sic and it should be an interesting season.

Lorenzo will be hard to beat. My money is on Stoner though. He is just such an awesome rider. When he is dialed in he kicks everyones as%es.

[image: View Post]Brown81, on 09 April 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

Imo, he's the greatest of all time (gonna put this in bold for the fanboyz), but damn he gets away with murder frequently.



I'm a big Rossi fan, but I have to disagree with you on this statement, IMHO Mike the Bike and Giacomo are front runners for the title.

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 09 April 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

I'm a big Rossi fan, but I have to disagree with you on this statement, IMHO Mike the Bike and Giacomo are front runners for the title.


chalk up another vote (from me) for mike the bike.

Go Stoner~

C'mon, it's obvious: people hate Stoner not because he's a whinger, but because his bird's a stunna... What's Rossi got? Uccio? :491:

Ciao,

[image: View Post]JZH, on 10 April 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

C'mon, it's obvious: people hate Stoner not because he's a whinger, but because his bird's a stunna... What's Rossi got? Uccio? :491:


Seriosuly, I'm majorly concerned that Rossi is gay and won't admit it publicly. I mean I have ZERO problems with him being homosexual, but it's just so weird that he supposedly has all these girlfriends but they NEVER show up in his pit box....ever! Is he doing a George Michael?

If it turned out much later that yeah, he's gay, I'd be even more pissed off because it would be one more example of image control / PR spin.

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 10 April 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

[image: View Post]JZH, on 10 April 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

C'mon, it's obvious: people hate Stoner not because he's a whinger, but because his bird's a stunna... What's Rossi got? Uccio? :491:


Seriosuly, I'm majorly concerned that Rossi is gay and won't admit it publicly. I mean I have ZERO problems with him being homosexual, but it's just so weird that he supposedly has all these girlfriends but they NEVER show up in his pit box....ever! Is he doing a George Michael?

If it turned out much later that yeah, he's gay, I'd be even more pissed off because it would be one more example of image control / PR spin.

I don't think so...

http://www.twowheels...in-good-company

!!NSFW!!

Adriana Stoner is way hotter:

[image: Posted Image]

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on 10 April 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

I don't think so...

http://www.twowheels...in-good-company

!!NSFW!!

Yeah I've seen those!

Maybe Rossi has some superstition about chicks in the pits?? We do know he's a supersititous lad, what with all the bending over by the bike before he gets on.

I am as gay as the day is long, but nobody is writing about me...............................

[image: View Post]timmythecop, on 10 April 2011 - 11:51 PM, said:

I am as gay as the day is long, but nobody is writing about me...............................


I've seen your videos. It's time for you to step it up to Sundance levels. So when are you going to motorcycle version of Brokeback Mountain? Will you call it Switchback Canyon?

[image: View Post]kaldek, on 10 April 2011 - 09:32 PM, said:

Maybe Rossi has some superstition about chicks in the pits?? We do know he's a supersititous lad, what with all the bending over by the bike before he gets on.


I think he prays when he's bent over, not to be mistaken with his "crotch" ritual.

Remember watching Laguna race the first time they did this extended live coverage, so on the warm up lap they cut to a camera on the back for Rossi's M1and get a screen full of his ass and him readjusting the package on ABC or whoever was doing the broadcast. Commentators were quickly out of words and director did not cut to another camera for a while. Awkward pause...

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 08 April 2011 - 03:01 PM, said:

if you can post a picture of Dani tipping the scales at a beefy 112 I will buy you a pint a TxMac. your choice on the beer.

I don't think adding alcohol to this conversation is a wise thing to do...

:laughing6-hehe:

[image: View Post]beavers, on 11 April 2011 - 09:51 AM, said:

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 08 April 2011 - 03:01 PM, said:

if you can post a picture of Dani tipping the scales at a beefy 112 I will buy you a pint a TxMac. your choice on the beer.

I don't think adding alcohol to this conversation is a wise thing to do...

:laughing6-hehe:



Double :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe:

[image: View Post]Dmitry, on 09 April 2011 - 10:02 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Brown81, on 09 April 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

Imo, he's the greatest of all time (gonna put this in bold for the fanboyz), but damn he gets away with murder frequently.



I'm a big Rossi fan, but I have to disagree with you on this statement, IMHO Mike the Bike and Giacomo are front runners for the title.



I wouldn't argue that. Although, I'd like to see either of those fellas take a crack at Rossi in his prime. I think they might lose, but wouldn't be surprised if I were wrong. :fing02:

[image: View Post]Switchblade, on 11 April 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

[image: View Post]beavers, on 11 April 2011 - 09:51 AM, said:

[image: View Post]cornercarver, on 08 April 2011 - 03:01 PM, said:

if you can post a picture of Dani tipping the scales at a beefy 112 I will buy you a pint a TxMac. your choice on the beer.

I don't think adding alcohol to this conversation is a wise thing to do...

:laughing6-hehe:



Double :laughing6-hehe: :laughing6-hehe:


I'm sure we're both mature enough to set aside petty differences and have a beer and talk about what we both agree on: motorcycles are fun to ride.