Shorai Lithium Battery

Hi,

I own an 02 VFR and have been having problems with both a slow electrical drain that I can't find and a battery that didn't seem very strong. I got tired of charging it every week so I started looking for replacements.

The stock Honda battery is pretty expensive, and the auto parts store batteries have been tried before but are slight smaller and don't seem to have the same juice. After researching the topic, I decided to try out the Shorai Lithium Iron battery. I didn't find too many comments or reviews of the battery online but couldn't find anything negative either. The Lithium Iron batteries hold approx. 14% less capacity than the Lithium Polymers in your laptop. However, they don't suffer the fire hazards issues and have much longer recharge cycles. These are the types of batteries that are going into new power tools, the Chevy Volt, etc.

The Shorai website lists two batteries for all VFR 800 models, the LFX14A1-BS12 14 amp hour and the LFX18A1-BS12 18 amp hour. Compared to the stock replacement battery, lead-acid YTZ12S rated at 11 amp hour.

I decided to pull the trigger on the larger of the two. I settled on BatteryStuff.com after reading good reviews and couldn't be happier. They shipped it out quickly an emailed tracking numbers as well.

When I received the battey, the first thing you notice is how light it is. This think is a little over 2 lbs, more than 7 lbs lighter than stock! It is the same length but about half the width. Shorai includeds several foam inserts with double-sided tape that allows you to fill up the extra space. This is a drop-in replacement with no other changes necessary.

I installed the battery and cranked it up. The bike fired up quickly! The starter spun up noticeably faster than with even a new lead-acid battery. No more holding the start button for several rotations now. The bike even seems to idle more smoothly as well.

The main draw back to this battery is the price. I paid $180.00 for the battery, shipping was included. The smaller of the two sells for around $150. For people who are on a budget and are fine with there current battery, you may want to hold off. However, this battery is said to last 7-8 years in normal operation. Essentially double what the "average" motorcycle battery does. If you figure the YTZ-12S goes for around $75 and you would have to replace it twice during that 7-8 year period, you would be paying the same as the LFX14A1-BS12 14 amp hour in the end.

So, if you need to replace your battery soon, I would highly recommend the Shorai. Light weight, plenty of juice and (theoretically) twice the life. Now if I could just find that damn short.....

Todd

Sounds promising. Out of habit, I keep mine on a auto trickler (po man's, battery bug wired also). But am thinking of moving to that newer lighter type when the time comes. Haven't researched it fully, do you know if can/should be maintained by a trickler?

It ashame that the bike can lose 5pds faster than I can...

Keep us posted (although the elec short may effect Your findings)

BattBug.pdf

Funny that this topic should appear just as some of us bought MOTY's Li batteries yesterday...

I wonder how do the ones offered by MOTY compare to Shorai?

Anyone?

bayarearider

Sounds promising. Out of habit, I keep mine on a auto trickler (po man's, battery bug wired also). But am thinking of moving to that newer lighter type when the time comes. Haven't researched it fully, do you know if can/should be maintained by a trickler?

Keep us posted (although the elec short may effect Your findings)

I don't have any electrical outlets in the parking structure at my complex so a trickle charger is not an option (although I did connect it to an inverter and my car battery from time to time). The manufacturer claims that trickle chargers are fine. The only exception are those DeSulfate type of chargers that apply a quick high voltage charge and then step down. Those can cause damage. Other than that, no differences.

Todd

tdmp

bayarearider

Sounds promising. Out of habit, I keep mine on a auto trickler (po man's, battery bug wired also). But am thinking of moving to that newer lighter type when the time comes. Haven't researched it fully, do you know if can/should be maintained by a trickler?

Keep us posted (although the elec short may effect Your findings)

I don't have any electrical outlets in the parking structure at my complex so a trickle charger is not an option (although I did connect it to an inverter and my car battery from time to time). The manufacturer claims that trickle chargers are fine. The only exception are those DeSulfate type of chargers that apply a quick high voltage charge and then step down. Those can cause damage. Other than that, no differences.

Todd

:fing02:

I'm pretty sure for most LiPo and LiFePo batteries, trickle charging is a big no-no. Besides, they can hold their charge for years, so I don't really see why you would need one on the battery anyways.

Rice

Funny that this topic should appear just as some of us bought MOTY's Li batteries yesterday...

I wonder how do the ones offered by MOTY compare to Shorai?

Anyone?

They look like they use the same battery chemistry as the Shorai batteries so I would imagine that they will have similar performance. Only time will tell.

Rice

Funny that this topic should appear just as some of us bought MOTY's Li batteries yesterday...

I wonder how do the ones offered by MOTY compare to Shorai?

Anyone?

I wouldnt freak over not getting the Shorai - I would think they are comparable since the technology is the same.

-That group buy was a great price! I got my MOTY for $160 -- although I do like the quick disconnect.

BTW -- These batterys require no trickle charging -- a big plus in my book.

There are guys on the ZRXOA.com (Kawasaki ZRX1100/1200) board that have been using this particular brand battery for the last month with great results. One member is selling them...

http://kwickstand.net/Hyper-Formance.com/Welcome.html

http://kwickstand.net/Hyper-Formance.com/Shorai_Batteries.html

Doesn't riding the bike recharge the battery to some extent?

I know that the bike/cars charging system doesn't restore a battery to a fully charged state, but?

I've been researching the Shorai batteries since I saw them at the NYC show, and talked to the rep. I really like them and have read nothing but good stuff about them. Too bad my battery is only a little over a year old, or I would've bought the Shorai already. But then again, the MOTY looks good. I like that these new tech batteries are significantly lighter, take up less space, require no trickle charging (it's actually advised against), and I love how green they are. They don't need any special disposal procedures.

bryan217

I've been researching the Shorai batteries since I saw them at the NYC show, and talked to the rep. I really like them and have read nothing but good stuff about them. Too bad my battery is only a little over a year old, or I would've bought the Shorai already. But then again, the MOTY looks good. I like that these new tech batteries are significantly lighter, take up less space, require no trickle charging (it's actually advised against), and I love how green they are. They don't need any special disposal procedures.

Here is info on trickle charging from the Shorai website:

Q. Should I use a battery tender?

A.The short answer is "only if you really need to". Most powersports enthusiasts have gotten used to hooking up a tender to their lead-acid batteries, all the time. Shorai LFX have much slower self-discharge than the best lead acid do (1/6 to 1/7, on average), they do not sulfate as capacity drops, and they are the ultimate "deep cycle" battery, which means that they can still crank your vehicle even if the remaining capacity is quite low. Therefore most riders will not need to use a tender at all. Even a charger or tender uses energy you have to pay for, and there is always the possibility that a charger or tender can fail in some way, so if not really needed the best practice is to not use one.

A fully charged LFX can sit for a year or more and still retain adequate starting capacity, without damaging the battery. As such, any vehicle which has no current flowing when the key is OFF should never need a tender. At most it should be charged every 6 to 12 months, depending on the average storage temperature (cool storage is much better for any battery). Many older vehicles and most dirtbike/atv fall into this category.

Newer vehicles may have a significant draw even when the key is OFF, to maintain clocks and computers, etc. In this case we expect that a few hours of riding per month will be all that is needed to avoid tending. If you know that you will go a number of weeks or months without riding, you can either attach a tender, or disconnect the negative cable from the battery. In any case, during storage you may use the voltage chart above and an accurate voltmeter, and consider recharging when the battery is around the 50% capacity remaining mark, or above.

Batteries Plus. $80. It will last you 5 years or more. Simple. Yuasa is worthless.

Goosechef

Yuasa is worthless.

That flies in the face of (almost) everything I have ever heard anyone say in person, or on any forum. It also doesn't hold true compared to my own experience with two bikes over the last three years. Sounds like you had an rare negative experience.

To get back to topic, I'll probably go Shorai or something similar just for the weight savings - when my OEM Yuasa eventually gives up the ghost. :fing02:

carlitos92

Goosechef

Yuasa is worthless.

That flies in the face of (almost) everything I have ever heard anyone say in person, or on any forum. It also doesn't hold true compared to my own experience with two bikes over the last three years. Sounds like you had an rare negative experience.

To get back to topic, I'll probably go Shorai or something similar just for the weight savings - when my OEM Yuasa eventually gives up the ghost. :fing02:

OEM Yuasa batteries are usually made in Japan for the Japanese bikes, while the replacement on-the-shelf Yuasa batteries are made in the USA, and never seem to last as long as the OEM ones. I have heard many stories about that.

From Yuasa: Yuasa Battery, Inc. has been manufacturing motorcycle batteries in the U.S.A. to uncompromisingly high standards since 1979. Most of the large capacity Powersports batteries are manufactured in our Laureldale, PA plant. All other Powersports batteries are produced in a Yuasa state-of-the-art manufacturing facility in various countries throughout the world. Each Yuasa facility follows the same rigorous manufacturing processes to ensure the highest Yuasa quality standards are met.

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/about.php

carlitos92

Goosechef

Yuasa is worthless.

That flies in the face of (almost) everything I have ever heard anyone say in person, or on any forum. It also doesn't hold true compared to my own experience with two bikes over the last three years. Sounds like you had an rare negative experience.

To get back to topic, I'll probably go Shorai or something similar just for the weight savings - when my OEM Yuasa eventually gives up the ghost. :fing02:

You had a negative experience? Shocking attempt at a battery pun. computer-noworky.gif laughing6-hehe.gif

btl68

OEM Yuasa batteries are usually made in Japan for the Japanese bikes, while the replacement on-the-shelf Yuasa batteries are made in the USA, and never seem to last as long as the OEM ones. I have heard many stories about that.

Well, as they say, YMMV... Maybe I hang around lucky people. But that was the first time I ever heard anyone say Yuasa was "worthless."

Jmmymc750

You had a negative experience? Shocking attempt at a battery pun. computer-noworky.gif laughing6-hehe.gif

Glad you got a little spark of humor out of that. :goofy:

It's funny how some batteries are better than others.

For example, I have a Deka brand battery in my Cavalier that was installed in May of 2003. That battery has never failed to start that car once in almost EIGHT YEARS. Cheap battery. Go figure.

My last battery in my VFR was an Autozone replacement battery. I think I spent about 70 bucks. Battery lasted about 19 months. Jeez, you would think even a cheap battery would go 3 years. Kinda why now I'm swearing off the lead acid type for bikes.

My OEM went 5 years. The cheap ($60) Advance Auto replacement lasted a year and 8 days (came with a year warranty). I went back to a Yuasa that I think I got for about $75 and it has been in there over 4 years now. I just ordered a MOTY and it can sit on the shelf for a year before using if I need it to.

wera803

My OEM went 5 years. The cheap ($60) Advance Auto replacement lasted a year and 8 days (came with a year warranty). I went back to a Yuasa that I think I got for about $75 and it has been in there over 4 years now. I just ordered a MOTY and it can sit on the shelf for a year before using if I need it to.

I got about a year from my last Yuasa and I'm on 4-5 years from my Walmart replacement!

Who really knows...

The two things that keep me from going with a litium battery are the cost, and the operating temps. If I thought it would last 4X longer than a good AGM I might be tempted, but I know it gets much hotter down under that VFR seat than 125° in the summer, and that will likely cause the lithium battery to fail prematurely.

I really like the idea of saving several pounds using a new high tech battery type. The other stated advantages are also very attractive. I don't 'currently' need a new battery and will keep reading the info. However. I've used Westco sealed AGM, gel cell batteries for 9 years, (the oldest one). With very little care at all they continue to function as new. I live in New England. 2 of the bikes get very little riding, yet start instantly on the rare occasion I ride them. Just a very satisfied customer, with nothing to gain. Good fortune, R~ [size

I've got about 1-1/2 years on my Wal-Mart battery (made by YUASA), and so far so good. I signed on for one of the MOTYs, though, which should arrive shortly. I'm going to take it along on long trips as a spare until my Wally World unit croaks.

strange, after my oem battery died i put a yuasa in it. that battery is now 7 years old and still works perfectly. i do keep a battery tender on it 24/7 though.

Monk

Doesn't riding the bike recharge the battery to some extent?

I know that the bike/cars charging system doesn't restore a battery to a fully charged state, but?

LiPo and LiFe batteries recharge very differently to lead acid - once the battery hits 4.20 volts per cell (in LiPo anyway - LiFe is a lower voltage per cell), the battery is charged. Therefore it is much easier to determine the fully charged state on a Lithium battery than on lead acid.

The important thing is to ensure the battery has a charging control circuit inside it that will cut the charge to the cells when they are full. Overcharging LiPo batteries is bad - like start a fire under your ass bad.

MBrane

The two things that keep me from going with a litium battery are the cost, and the operating temps. If I thought it would last 4X longer than a good AGM I might be tempted, but I know it gets much hotter down under that VFR seat than 125° in the summer, and that will likely cause the lithium battery to fail prematurely.

LiPo battery cells are generally good to 56 degres centigrade per cell, after which they degrade, but that's normally a number related to how fast you discharge the battery. The faster the discharge, the more heat generated.

So they're really saying "a hot battery means you discharged it too fast and that causes the battery chemistry to degrade". It's not the heat which is the problem, the heat is a symptom.

I have some 6-cell LiPo batteries I used in my electric RC jet and they put out something like two kilowatts of power, for about three minutes, and then they're flat. If you went full throttle the whole time they would get pretty hot, and the two cells in the middle of the pack suffer the most because they have nowhere to vent their heat. I would hope that any Lithium based motorcycle batteries use spacing between the cells using some form of material which conducts heat away from the cell.

kaldek

Monk

Doesn't riding the bike recharge the battery to some extent?

I know that the bike/cars charging system doesn't restore a battery to a fully charged state, but?

LiPo and LiFe batteries recharge very differently to lead acid - once the battery hits 4.20 volts per cell (in LiPo anyway - LiFe is a lower voltage per cell), the battery is charged. Therefore it is much easier to determine the fully charged state on a Lithium battery than on lead acid.

The important thing is to ensure the battery has a charging control circuit inside it that will cut the charge to the cells when they are full. Overcharging LiPo batteries is bad - like start a fire under your ass bad.

Thx for the reply........ Sounds like I'll be staying away from them for a few years, just on the heat issue.

Monk

kaldek

Monk

Doesn't riding the bike recharge the battery to some extent?

I know that the bike/cars charging system doesn't restore a battery to a fully charged state, but?

LiPo and LiFe batteries recharge very differently to lead acid - once the battery hits 4.20 volts per cell (in LiPo anyway - LiFe is a lower voltage per cell), the battery is charged. Therefore it is much easier to determine the fully charged state on a Lithium battery than on lead acid.

The important thing is to ensure the battery has a charging control circuit inside it that will cut the charge to the cells when they are full. Overcharging LiPo batteries is bad - like start a fire under your ass bad.

Thx for the reply........ Sounds like I'll be staying away from them for a few years, just on the heat issue.

I believe above was referencing the LiPo batteries, not the LiFe

My experience so far has been that since I put foam around the battery, the battery box area seems to be the coolest area under the seat after I run the bike awhile. That area under the seat gets pretty fricken warm, so my guess is that I am insulating it from the heat as opposed the battery generating heat. As long as the bikes charging system is in reasonable condition, it will be fine.

I still think I'm gonna wait to see how these batteries perform before pulling the trigger. Maybe the price will come down a bit in the meantime.

Monk

Thx for the reply........ Sounds like I'll be staying away from them for a few years, just on the heat issue.

All that was only relevant to LiPo batteries - LiFe batteries (particulaly A123 cells) are a totally different kettle of fish.

In comparison to LiPo, LiFe batteries (Lithium-IRON) are much better. They can deliver way more amps, can be charged much faster, and don't overheat anything like LiPo technology. They also last a very long time.

MBrane

I still think I'm gonna wait to see how these batteries perform before pulling the trigger. Maybe the price will come down a bit in the meantime.

I pulled this from Moty site, and this is their largest battery the $250 one

Pulse discharge @ 10 seconds = 360 Amps <LI>Continuous discharge (MAX) = 210 Amps <LI>Cycle Life (DoD spec) = 1,000 cycles <LI>Dimensions (L x W x H) = 10.5cm x 7.5cm x 7cm / 4.13" x 2.94" x 2.75" <LI>Weight = 958.21g / 2.11lbs <LI>Rating = 6.9Ah <LI>Operational Temperature Range = -22 °F to +140 °F

This for the $180 battery

<LI>Pulse discharge @ 10 seconds = 240 Amps <LI>Continuous discharge (MAX) = 140 Amps <LI>Cycle Life (DoD spec) = 1,000 cycles <LI>Dimensions (L x W x H) = 10.5cm x 5cm x 7cm / 4.13" x 1.96" x 2.75" <LI>Weight = 766.57g / 1.69lbs <LI>Rating = 4.6Ah <LI>Operational Temperature Range = -22 °F to +140 °F

YtZ 14 yuasa

230 cca

11.2 AH - Near double to both Motys

looks equal to me ?

kaldek

Monk

Thx for the reply........ Sounds like I'll be staying away from them for a few years, just on the heat issue.

All that was only relevant to LiPo batteries - LiFe batteries (particulaly A123 cells) are a totally different kettle of fish.

In comparison to LiPo, LiFe batteries (Lithium-IRON) are much better. They can deliver way more amps, can be charged much faster, and don't overheat anything like LiPo technology. They also last a very long time.

which is why in my first post. in the other battery thread i said id rather have a Shorai battery

Regarding lead/acid batteries: ALWAYS give new batteries a full charge (overnight), before installation, regardless of what the seller claims to have done. If you're adding the acid this should be obvious. Many dealers will claim they have fully charged the battery you're buying. Consider it BS, and do it yourself. Good fortune, R~

For the benefit of all:

Shorai has NO batteries in the US (haven't since just after the Indy Dealer Expo) & the last update I got from their sales/service weiner was that no new batteries are expected in the US until mid-April of 2011. But they are making some update in the interim...

So, early May your local parts house may have Shorais. If they pay up now & wait patiently.

What are the reprucutions of these new tech batties on a reg/rect. that already has problems? In simple terms, if I understand correctly, the reg/rect. burns the extra juice off in form of heat among other duties, well if the battery requires less of a charging state the reg. has to burn that much more right? won't this shorten an already short life of the 5th gen. reg/rect.? Sorry to high jack, I just want to get an educated answer on this before ordering one of these.

hawglet

What are the reprucutions of these new tech batties on a reg/rect. that already has problems? In simple terms, if I understand correctly, the reg/rect. burns the extra juice off in form of heat among other duties, well if the battery requires less of a charging state the reg. has to burn that much more right? won't this shorten an already short life of the 5th gen. reg/rect.? Sorry to high jack, I just want to get an educated answer on this before ordering one of these.

I think it goes without saying that we know that the VFR charging system has its "issues". It's probably a good idea to go through your bike -- i.e. replace the stator connectors, check stator condition, move to a MOSFET or series (compufire) R/R. (Ditch the OEM)

A effed up charging system can hose any battery whether its the classic lead acid or the new tech lithum iron. That's why I'm going thru mine to make sure it's 100%. (I bought the MOTY)

Motorcycle Consumer News just did a write up on Shorai. I haven't seen it myself, but heard about it on my local forum. But it sounds positive.

As for the delay, Shorai says they're redesigning the batteries a little due to feedback. http://blog.shoraipower.com/

hawglet

What are the reprucutions of these new tech batties on a reg/rect. that already has problems? In simple terms, if I understand correctly, the reg/rect. burns the extra juice off in form of heat among other duties, well if the battery requires less of a charging state the reg. has to burn that much more right? won't this shorten an already short life of the 5th gen. reg/rect.? Sorry to high jack, I just want to get an educated answer on this before ordering one of these.

The actual charging required shouldn't change...the R/R bleeds off the overhead not used by the lights etc, and this amount increased once the battery is fully charged. I suppose under that auspice, using a battery tender makes your R/R work harder to bleed off the excess...interesting.

I am looking forward to more data as these batteries become more popular and widely used.

Tightwad

hawglet

What are the reprucutions of these new tech batties on a reg/rect. that already has problems? In simple terms, if I understand correctly, the reg/rect. burns the extra juice off in form of heat among other duties, well if the battery requires less of a charging state the reg. has to burn that much more right? won't this shorten an already short life of the 5th gen. reg/rect.? Sorry to high jack, I just want to get an educated answer on this before ordering one of these.

The actual charging required shouldn't change...the R/R bleeds off the overhead not used by the lights etc, and this amount increased once the battery is fully charged. I suppose under that auspice, using a battery tender makes your R/R work harder to bleed off the excess...interesting.

I am looking forward to more data as these batteries become more popular and widely used.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding or if I'm being misunderstood. I guess that what I'm thinking is that these batteries don't drain out like conventional lead acid, right? Now, if understood right, the bike doesn't require cranking repetitively to start as the amperages are higher and better sustained/delivered with the Lith. tech batteries. So once started the battery is charged quicker, for speculation purpose say 1/2 or maybe more realistic 3/4 of the time at a giving rev. than a conventional. So the R/R will be burning that extra juice up that would have otherwise went to the acid battery. Over the course of the season this could be the little bit extra to replacing the R/R on a semi-annual basis, not? Btw: I'm lucky enough so far to not have had to replace my R/R at 2x,xxx miles but I plan on getting one soon to have it readily available when the inevitable happens., when I get to this I'll be looking for some "NESS" to add as well.

Any risk or considerations before putting one of these Lithium batteries in a 4th gen VFR? (1997 VFR750 - i.e. carbs not FI)

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Shorai 18 Amp Hour (now back in stock at batterystuff.com - https://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/LFX18A1-BS12.html )

pwensAny risk or considerations before putting one of these Lithium batteries in a 4th gen VFR? (1997 VFR750 - i.e. carbs not FI)

No, just use it as you would a normal lead acid battery. You seriously don't need the 18 amp hour unit - why do you think you do?

Remember it's 18 amp/hour "equivalent" which means it's actually about 6amp/hours in the battery. This is not a problem because it's almost impossible to get the full 18 amp/hours out of a lead acid battery before the voltage crashes, whereas the Lithium batteries will deliver nearly all of their full 6amp/hours before the output voltage drops. Also the Lithium battery will not self-drain anywhere near as fast as the lead acid, so you can leave it for weeks without the battery going flat.

kaldek

pwensAny risk or considerations before putting one of these Lithium batteries in a 4th gen VFR? (1997 VFR750 - i.e. carbs not FI)

No, just use it as you would a normal lead acid battery. You seriously don't need the 18 amp hour unit - why do you think you do?

Remember it's 18 amp/hour "equivalent" which means it's actually about 6amp/hours in the battery. This is not a problem because it's almost impossible to get the full 18 amp/hours out of a lead acid battery before the voltage crashes, whereas the Lithium batteries will deliver nearly all of their full 6amp/hours before the output voltage drops. Also the Lithium battery will not self-drain anywhere near as fast as the lead acid, so you can leave it for weeks without the battery going flat.

I did in fact read the battery stuff.com description page for the 14 AH version (the smaller version), but I was discouraged by their language:

"We recommend using this battery in your regular commuters, your frequent play vehicles, and anything that may require that extra punch to start."

Keywords being REGULAR and FREQUENT. Unfortunately some months I only get out on my VFR once a week for an hour or so.

Do you think that's a concern with the smaller AH version? I just want to make the right choice given the price of these lithium batteries...

Link to 14 AH page:

http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/lfx14a4-bs12.html

ericlwstrange, after my oem battery died i put a yuasa in it. that battery is now 7 years old and still works perfectly. i do keep a battery tender on it 24/7 though.

Man, you must have a LONG extension cable.

:laugh:

I've had a Shoria battery in my Guzzi Daytona for nearly 2 years. I was interested at first due to the light weight and a better fit than any lead acid batteries 'currently' available. The Daytona carries its' battery in the tailpiece. It's always good to lower the CG (~-6#'s), and centralize it. The Shoria works great. Another advantage for me is that I don't ride that bike often. Details I've read include 'lightly' pre-loading the battery for several minutes before starting. The claim is that this re-structures the molecular chemistry in the battery and you will get greater voltage for starting. Seems to work for me. (+1 on the non-desulfating chargers).

BTW: I was replacing an 11 year old Westco AGM that is still performing well! Good fortune, R3~

Shorai batteries are great! I have them in my dirt bikes (510cc) and am super hard on them, dozens and dozens of starts per ride, occasionally a month or more between rides. The only time I've ever had a problem was when I left the headlight on all night after a ride and blew my charging fuse. One fuse and 20min on a 10amp charger later: Instant start!

Roebling3

Details I've read include 'lightly' pre-loading the battery for several minutes before starting. The claim is that this re-structures the molecular chemistry in the battery and you will get greater voltage for starting. Seems to work for me.

Oddly enough, 'pre-loading' is more important in cold temperatures and/or if the battery is low. If it's close to freezing, I leave the headlight on for a couple minutes while I put my helmet and gloves on, then kill the light and start the bike. It has noticably more cranking amps after the load.

From the Shorai FAQ page 'Cold Weather Performance Expectations' section (bold added by me):

Down to about 20 degrees Fahrenheit (-7C) most users find that they can start normally on first crank. If your headlight comes on at key-ON, it is good for the batteries to flow some current before cranking in cold weather. The suggested headlight-on time before cranking depends on the temperature. If starting at 40F/5C, 30 seconds will help wake the battery and increase cranking performance. If at 0F/-17C, leave the lights on for 4~5 minutes before cranking. The result will be a better first crank, and longer battery life.

On the Li Iron batterys - ie MOTY -- - I have had one for 3 years and it has performed with no issues. But you still have to keep in mind the cold soak issue. These dont like to be cold for start up.

I have a voltmeter on my 5th gen and typically the battery will charge to 14v after a ride and over a few weeks it will settle around 13.3 v and stay there till your next ride. - But, I forgot about a cold shot we had down to around 40 Fahrenheit, and the battery sat for 24 hours. Voltage dropped to 12.2. That's the only time I have seen it there.

-- The thing was weak but the bike fired up. -- The thing with these still, is bring it inside if you know is going to get a cold temp soak. Mine has the quick connect on it and installing or uninstalling the MOTY is about as hard as plugging in a wall charger, so its not a hassle. But still gotta remember about cold. For the winter season, its just bring it in the house until next season. The moty sat for near 6 months and went from 13.5 to 13.4volts for the time. I like this, unplug it, bring it house and forget it. No fooling with a charger.

A note for fun.... my OEM Yuasa on my Valkyrie lasted 10 years before I just decided I was pushing my luck on the thing. :cool:

On the VFR, Ive had about 3 agm batteries, all have lasted more than 40,000 miles before weakening or developing flakyness. Sometimes I wonder what in Hell is wrong with everyones bikes. Kronic electrical problems.

For me I dont have time for 2 oz batteries that may or may not work in all conditions, but the AGM 14z batteries built for the fz1 and st1300, are the best for the vfr.