My 6th gen journey

Been a long time since I posted so I wanted to catch up. 

2002 6th gen that I purchased with just over 36k on the clock. After about 2 years of riding it as a commuter almost entirely I decided to have some fun. Fast forward to now and here we are. Bike currently has just under 71k. I track this bike regularly now and it doesn't see much if any street miles anymore. 

Current setup:

Sebspeed custom triple trees 

2006 Yamaha R1 front end (trees cut for stock width so no spacers)

DMr built forks to my weight with all the add-ons possible

EBC prolite rotors up front

Brembo RCS 19 brake master

Brembo RCS 17 clutch master cylinder with braided line

Brembo remote brake adjuster

Vfr 1200 clip ons 

Switch pod delete on both clip ons with custom 3 button Ducabike pod for start/fuel pump on throttle side

cbr1000rr throttle with quick turn cam

Domino grips

Oberon slave cylinder

Core moto braided lines front and rear on a de-linked system

Vesrah pads

Vented pistons in front calipers

Ducabike Carbon brake vents

Ti predrilled for safety wire hardware on entire front end: all pinch bolts, banjos and standard bolts/nuts

Sebspeed windowed clutch cover

Sebspeed rear set adapters with Woodcraft CBR 954 rearsets

Laser exhaust with delkevic headers

Rapid bike tuner w/autotune and single wideband o2 - tuned for MS100 and 91 octane

111hp, 64ftlbs on MS100 

1 down, 3 up Vortex sprockets with 520 chain

Healtech QS

Healtech speedo healer

Healtech gear indicator

F4i rear shock with remote res built to my specs by Jamie at DMr

Few carbon pieces for fun; dash surround, chain guard, front fender, filler pieces between seat and subframe arms. 

Keyless fuel cap

As3 silicone hoses

Water wetter coolant

VFRness harness

Antigravity battery with Li reg/rec wired direct

5th gen stator

EBC clutch with heavy duty springs

4 complete sets of wheels;

6th gen rear/R1 front in hot pink

6th gen rear/R1 front in Fluo Yellow

CB1000R rear/R1 front in Fluo Blue

8 spoke rear/R1 front in Fluo Orange

Custom front upper with headlight delete for the track. I run a 55mm projector when I want to run on the street that I got from MotoForza. 

The final piece is almost finished. Honda RS125 tail with custom aluminum subframe from Sebastian. 

I'm sure I've missed a few things!

Now for the downside...

Engine is done! Toasted it Sunday at the track. 3 laps in coming down the back straight and starting to downshift I could hear it and it sounded very hurt. Set up to take the turn and as I started to lean in the rear stepped out a bit. Instant pucker, stood it up and went off track into the dirt to avoid a lowside because I had passed 3 on the brakes and I didn't want to end anyone else's day. Nursed it thru the dirt and back around, stopped to see what was going on and noticed smoke coming from the exhaust. Waved at the corner worker and he came over as I shut the bike off. Told him there was a good chance I had leaked oil on track cause I could see it on my left lower fairing, swing arm and my rear tire was shiny on the left side. 

Crash truck towed me back to the pits and sure enough catch can was full of oil. Inside of fairing was soaked, rear set, kickstand, swing arm, tire were all soaked. Thankfully there wasn't noticeable oil on track. 

So here's my question. 

5th gen swap?

Newer 6th gen replacement? 

What do you suggest and why?

Here is a shot of the bike. If you'd like to see more detailed shots of some of the mods let me know...

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5th Gen swap. Bolts straight in. “Corner Carver” did it. IIRC on how, the VTEC crap needs to be ziptied in the bike, so the ECM recognizes it. Otherwise, it’ll run as normal. 
 

5th Gen swingarm is ~20mm shorter and you can shim the upper shock clevis, as well. Both should really help turn-in. I have my rearend jacked up to where the lower shock eyelet almost contacts the linkage and have the wheelbase setup for a 180/60 rear. The handling is amazing. 
 

I’d really like to see an extensive write-up on your bike, as I originally built my 5th Gen fit the track. However, life hasn’t gone to plan. 

7 hours ago, ducnut

5th Gen swap. Bolts straight in. “Corner Carver” did it. IIRC on how, the VTEC crap needs to be ziptied in the bike, so the ECM recognizes it. Otherwise, it’ll run as normal. 
 

5th Gen swingarm is ~20mm shorter and you can shim the upper shock clevis, as well. Both should really help turn-in. I have my rearend jacked up to where the lower shock eyelet almost contacts the linkage and have the wheelbase setup for a 180/60 rear. The handling is amazing. 
 

I’d really like to see an extensive write-up on your bike, as I originally built my 5th Gen fit the track. However, life hasn’t gone to plan. 

I really want to do a 5th gen swap!

I had a clevis custom made that raises the rear 12mm. 

I'd be willing to answer any tech questions and would love to do a real write up. 

Now that I'm home with a good connection let's see if I can post some detailed pics

RS125 tail on Sebastians bike as he finalizes fitment 

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Cockpit view

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Aluminum subframe from scratch (Sebspeed is a mad scientist!)

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Switch pod

Red is power, black is start and green is headlight

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Front view of the fairing with the 55mm projector. When I track the bike I remove this and have a hose setup that I connect to the mount port. That hose spilts and directs air to both radiators. Very simple setup using duct hose from home depot that works perfectly

[image: 20210514_055431.thumb.jpg.3b00ac1a54674e6bb43bf274377741db.jpg]

Probably one of my fav trick parts. Remote brake adjuster. Allows me to dial in the lever while I'm riding. 

[image: 20210303_172720.thumb.jpg.f3ba69dd6c17786e18827a08498b1709.jpg]

Since I'm running an F4i rear brake master I didn't want to do the typical "hose with a bolt in it" for a reservoir. Found this really trick hard mounted reservoir that connects directly to the master. Only downside is it is a process to bleed because it only holds about 2 tablespoons of brake fluid!

[image: 20210207_182517.thumb.jpg.39ff9a1d77d657f65a5389c64ccb39f7.jpg]

Nice I put the headlight in the turn signal.   Did the 5th Gen swingarm do anything?  If we could lose 80lbs more our track bikes would be fun. How much does yours weigh?  I can hardly move mine in the garage compared to my other bikes.  

I find myself thinking about taking the VFR off track days and getting a dedicated track bike. Unfortunately there's aren't many V4 tracksters available - Aprilia RSV4 and Ducati V4 come to mind but I don't want a 200hp track machine. Other V4s - RC30 and RC45 are too valuable for track duty. NC30 and NC35 probably are as well. Are there other track day type V4s that I'm forgetting?

And this thread pops up. How much weight can one reasonably remove from a 6th gen VFR? Especially considering that by adding a better front end from an RC51 I've added a few pounds? Could it ever be a 400lb machine?

22 minutes ago, jim v

I find myself thinking about taking the VFR off track days and getting a dedicated track bike. Unfortunately there's aren't many V4 tracksters available - Aprilia RSV4 and Ducati V4 come to mind but I don't want a 200hp track machine. Other V4s - RC30 and RC45 are too valuable for track duty. NC30 and NC35 probably are as well. Are there other track day type V4s that I'm forgetting?

And this thread pops up. How much weight can one reasonably remove from a 6th gen VFR? Especially considering that by adding a better front end from an RC51 I've added a few pounds? Could it ever be a 400lb machine?

With two heads and two radiators, two exhausts, and all the associated plumbing, it's never going to be as light as an equivalent modern I-4 GSZXYZBR-1000RdeRR.  Even the RSV4, R1 etc, are about 450 lbs curb weight, but you can rid yourself of a lot of weight with fiberglass race fairings, a different subframe that is built for a single rider instead of two riders and hard luggage, removal of unneeded things like lights, turn signals, center stands, going to a single exhaust, etc.  There used to be threads on here about this very subject and several have posted their track bike weights, via weighing what came off vs what went back on.  

1 hour ago, tbzep

With two heads and two radiators, two exhausts, and all the associated plumbing, it's never going to be as light as an equivalent modern I-4 GSZXYZBR-1000RdeRR.  Even the RSV4, R1 etc, are about 450 lbs curb weight, but you can rid yourself of a lot of weight with fiberglass race fairings, a different subframe that is built for a single rider instead of two riders and hard luggage, removal of unneeded things like lights, turn signals, center stands, going to a single exhaust, etc.  There used to be threads on here about this very subject and several have posted their track bike weights, via weighing what came off vs what went back on.  

What I find crazy is a Yamaha MT-10 is nearly 470lbs, wet, which is about what a 5th Gen weighs, dry. There’s nothing to an MT-10. 

9 hours ago, jim v

I find myself thinking about taking the VFR off track days and getting a dedicated track bike. Unfortunately there's aren't many V4 tracksters available - Aprilia RSV4 and Ducati V4 come to mind but I don't want a 200hp track machine. Other V4s - RC30 and RC45 are too valuable for track duty. NC30 and NC35 probably are as well. Are there other track day type V4s that I'm forgetting?

And this thread pops up. How much weight can one reasonably remove from a 6th gen VFR? Especially considering that by adding a better front end from an RC51 I've added a few pounds? Could it ever be a 400lb machine?

IDK about 400, but with the VFRD headers and aftermarket cans, mine lost a bit over 20 pounds.  A lithium battery would shed a good bit more.  For any track bike, all the bulbs, wiring, rear footrests, mirrors etc that do / could be removed there's probably another 25 or so she could shed.  400 might get in sight, but without a serious diet of lightweight bits it seems to me it would be tough to reach.  Someone did a thread a while back about using Ti fasteners and other approaches to lighten the bike - it would be interesting to dig that up and see how it came out.

I can't believe nobody has said it.  The best way to take weight off the bike is for the rider to lose weight.  😉

18 minutes ago, tbzep

I can't believe nobody has said it.  The best way to take weight off the bike is for the rider to lose weight.  😉

But, that’s no fun. Buying cool stuff is. 😜

20 hours ago, jim v

 Could it ever be a 400lb machine?

1 hour ago, Tirso

That reminds me, the 3rd gen 8 spoke is a tad lighter than the 6th gen wheel.  I'm betting all the Ducati and aftermarket racing wheels that will bolt on to that eccentric will be considerably lighter.

jim v, 11/3/2021 at 2:27 PM

I find myself thinking about taking the VFR off track days and getting a dedicated track bike. Unfortunately there's aren't many V4 tracksters available - Aprilia RSV4 and Ducati V4 come to mind but I don't want a 200hp track machine. Other V4s - RC30 and RC45 are too valuable for track duty. NC30 and NC35 probably are as well. Are there other track day type V4s that I'm forgetting?

And this thread pops up. How much weight can one reasonably remove from a 6th gen VFR? Especially considering that by adding a better front end from an RC51 I've added a few pounds? Could it ever be a 400lb machine?

I think it’s possible, with an empty tank.
 

I’ve had my 5th Gen completely disassembled, minus the engine. It’s pretty crazy what stuff weighs. For instance, the swingarm assembly and rear wheel are considerably heavier than swapping in a 954 rearend and wheel. Personally, an F3 frontend is plenty of frontend for me, given the level of racers who raced them, back in the day. So, there’s weight to be saved, there. The front and rear subframes can be fabricated from aluminum, saving a lot more. Race bodywork and seat are a fraction of the weight of the original stuff. I completely stripped my wire harness and it’s very easy to decipher what you do/don’t need and can strip out. If you want to get crazy, you can decipher the gauge cluster feeds and swap over to a Trail Tech dash. Obviously, you’ve already de-linked and saved some, there. No lighting, undertray, chain guard, centerstand, and other periphery should easily shave close to 70lbs off. 

Ditching the 6th gen rear sub/seat/tail cowl/light/pass pegs/undertray etc and replacing with a 2lb subframe and a 1lb tail cowl and an led strip light will make a ridiculous difference in how the bike feels. There's got to be close to 40lb of difference there - the resulting forward weight bias is going to be very noticeable, and in a good way with regard to handling. 

I'm game to lighten my 6th gen if only to to improve electronics performance and reliability and gas mileage! My 2007 is the daily driver but not right now as rear brake light does not come on and the blinkers blow the fuse on activation of the switch. I want to learn to fix it but electrical seems to be achilles heel of this beast and replacement sounds like a better option for any purpose.  Please point me the way!

tbzep, 11/3/2021 at 11:50 AM

With two heads and two radiators, two exhausts, and all the associated plumbing, it's never going to be as light as an equivalent modern I-4 GSZXYZBR-1000RdeRR.  Even the RSV4, R1 etc, are about 450 lbs curb weight, but you can rid yourself of a lot of weight with fiberglass race fairings, a different subframe that is built for a single rider instead of two riders and hard luggage, removal of unneeded things like lights, turn signals, center stands, going to a single exhaust, etc.  There used to be threads on here about this very subject and several have posted their track bike weights, via weighing what came off vs what went back on.  

^ This is very true, the worst street bike I ever rode was the best track bike. 2012 Gixxer 750, with a proper exhaust and tune it can make 155hp, and weighs 400 wet with said exhaust. Very balanced easy bike to ride on the track (not good on the street), and with suspension work, even better. Easily keeps up with all but the fastest liter bikes.

That being said, there is nothing like a V4 engine note, except maybe the '15 and newer crossplane R1 which sounds wicked, but is still an $11K used bike, and not great on the street. The Aprilias are great on the track, no so good on the street, and the engines seem to go BANG a little more than once in awhile. Also still expensive. V4 Ducati's are even more money and more power, but they do seem to be engineering the scary out of them. I would not want to toss one at the track as a V4S is around $30K out the door. $ame with RC30 and RC45, and also they are too collectable. The MT-10 could be a good street/track bike, but are still holding value ~$10K. So, if you're on a budget, and really want a V4 street /track bike, your only option is likely a VFR. Third and 4th gens are as low as $2,500, and 5th/6th gens seem to start around $3,500. If you want to build a track only bike, you should be able to get it under 400 by only leaving what is absolutely needed to run the bike. Nowadays Honda does not like supporting bikes for more than 10 years or so, then parts become unavailable. At least there are plenty of other bikes that you can swap parts with. 

If I ever get back on my Street Fighter project, and finish it, I would like to do a track-only VFR, so I can retire the RC51, as those prices have been going ballistic too!

Cogswell, 11/3/2021 at 11:53 PM

IDK about 400, but with the VFRD headers and aftermarket cans, mine lost a bit over 20 pounds.  A lithium battery would shed a good bit more.  For any track bike, all the bulbs, wiring, rear footrests, mirrors etc that do / could be removed there's probably another 25 or so she could shed.  400 might get in sight, but without a serious diet of lightweight bits it seems to me it would be tough to reach.  Someone did a thread a while back about using Ti fasteners and other approaches to lighten the bike - it would be interesting to dig that up and see how it came out.

Well, already have VFRD headers, aftermarket cans, lithium battery, Ducati rear hub and lightweight wheels. The RC51 front end adds some weight back but that's a worthwhile upgrade despite the weight penalty -  the difference in feel from the front is noticeable and gives me more confidence in the front end. So not much further to go but still a lot of time and effort

Of course a newer track toy would have the benefit of modern rider aids. The Aprilia RS660 is well reviewed, googling tells me the track only Trofeo edition is 153kg (337lbs) with 105hp - not a V4 but checks a lot of boxes

jim v, 11/9/2021 at 11:17 AM

Well, already have VFRD headers, aftermarket cans, lithium battery, Ducati rear hub and lightweight wheels. The RC51 front end adds some weight back but that's a worthwhile upgrade despite the weight penalty -  the difference in feel from the front is noticeable and gives me more confidence in the front end. So not much further to go but still a lot of time and effort

Of course a newer track toy would have the benefit of modern rider aids. The Aprilia RS660 is well reviewed, googling tells me the track only Trofeo edition is 153kg (337lbs) with 105hp - not a V4 but checks a lot of boxes

The VFR front wheel is much heavier than the RC51, so is the lower triple clamp as it's steel. The RC fork tubes are about .040" thick aluminum, and the VFR is a heavy cast piece. Are you sure the RC front end is heavier? I guess everything is bigger on the RC, triples, axles, fork tubes, brakes, etc, etc...

Wow, that Trofeo version is gorgeous! The Aprilia does check a lot of boxes. The 660 chassis is sublime as well, Aprilia has always been known for having the best feel and feedback with their designs. The electronics are nice too, as well as all the modern bits.