If I hadn't already got the Galfer line halfway through! I can't believe there's no way to access it adequately except a socket...and they made it impossible to easily remove the bracket or obstructions.
Ordered some pop rivets, cutting plastic is the new way forward.
11 hours ago, ShipFixerNew fresh hell - WTAF was Honda thinking when it put the bolt and flare nut for the rear two brake lines in a place where you really can't get to either cleanly? I may have to disassemble the things hanging on the rear subframe to remove the tray so I can get to one stubborn 10mm bolt that wants to round in the one 12 point offset wrench I have that can reach it. A 6 point crow foot or something might do it but might also not. Super lame.
7 hours ago, ShipFixerThat does seem to be the way...
So not enough room for a crows foot, and no amount of freeze off or PB will get it to move under the offset wrench without rounding. I am considering removing the mud flap at its three rivets, cutting an access hole for my socket wrench in the plastic behind it, then re-riveting. The other ways require disassembling the whole back half of the bike. For a while it seemed like I could bend that bracket enough by hand, but no luck.
Even the bolts holding the proportioning valve (where the bracket is mounted to) are reversed up against the frame, so step one seems to be "disassemble whole bike." It's like Honda never considered easy replacement of even OEM rubber lines.
What's even more aggravating is most of these parts are going to be permanently removed but there's not enough room in there to get my 1.5" stroke recip saw in to just cut the right things out. So destructive methods are mostly off the table...argh.
Hi ShipFixer,,In the past I have used string soaked in flammable liquid wrapped around the flare nut and set alight. If a sealant like Locktite has been used this practice usually works. If it doesn't work the first time try again. Cheers
I like that idea. I did not like the idea of a pencil torch near my fuel tank, so I really only tried a really strong lighter.
When I broke the sticky flare nut out, it didn't have loctite on it. It looked like it had some greenish copper corrosion but not much. I think the forward ones leading to the front calipers are "likely to be bad" because the top of the flare nut and the threads are looking up at the sky, ahead of the fuel tank. My bike was left outside a lot by the in-between owner, so...yeah.
That being said, the rear one I'm trying to get to now is protected from the elements and rounding pretty easily since I can't get the flare nut fully seated. But it wouldn't matter anyway because that block has to come off no matter what. I would cut it out if I could get it.
Wouldn't you know it, this is taking long enough that the remaining parts I needed to replace the oil cooler lines, stator, and flywheel arrived yesterday. Looks like I am doing "everything" now while I've got it all taken apart. 🤣
Finally got around to surgery last night. I'll leave my solution here for posterity, because someone out there is going to experience the same WTF moments.
The bolt in question is just behind the plastic edge that the rubber "mud flap" protecting the rear shock mounts to. This flap is held in place by three pop rivets. I removed the left and center rivet, and pushed it out of the way:
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Next, I used tin snips and a cutting wheel on my Dremel to cut a small access to get to the 10mm bolt:
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Now I could get a 10mm six point socket completely on it and break it free. From there, I could move the junction block with the flare nut free of the intruding bracket, get a flare nut wrench on it, and break that part free as well. No other way to really get this flare nut free without breaking that bracket bolt first, so if yours is seized, you are going to disassemble the rear of the bike or do surgery like I did. I can't stress this enough, that flare nut is really soft and will round right away if you try to turn it without freeing it of this bracket first, so you can fully seat the flare nut wrench.
Something, something, something later, now it looks like this. All of my brake lines are in place and torqued down. I zip tied the Galfer hoses through the hole where the old junction was (couldn't reuse anything, and Galfer didn't supply anything interesting to hold it in place). Yes, it's ugly, but no one is going to see it. I'll rivet the flap back in place after I see nothing is leaking. The flap will completely cover the access cut I made.
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I also installed a new chain guard that I already used Cerakote trim wipes on, plus some new hose clamps. I've seen people use different ways of securing the smaller diameter Galfer lines to different chain guards. I used some 1/8" rubber sheet in red, cut some strips, and stuffed them in the clamps with the hoses like so:
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Hopefully, will get to take a stab at filling the brake system tomorrow. The one hitch I see for solo bleeding is the Galfer bolt/bleeder valve for the proportioning valve (high point under the seat) is something smaller than the M8 used everywhere else. So I have Speed Bleeders everywhere except of course the place that is going to be the biggest PITA, where it would help the most for bleeding sans help. I could just reinstall the original Honda part but it has a fair amount of rust in it, and I'd have to clean it.
Glad you got it sorted (and glad I didn't have this much hassle when I did my 5th Gen).
You'll surely notice the difference when you've bled them. :beer:
I'd recommend removing the rear caliper now and hanging it high once you have the system filled....... final bleed with it high.
43 minutes ago, raYzermanI'd recommend removing the rear caliper now and hanging it high once you have the system filled....... final bleed with it high.
Indeed - should point out the next long steps 🤣 Its not even bolted in completely, I just needed it in its final location before I tightened down the hoses at the other ends and along the way.
It's going to be a PITA but another reason I am doing rebuilt calipers and hoses is when I got the bike back in 2020, there were points I just couldn't bleed effectively at all. Even with new speed bleeder nipples, its like there was enough gunk to prevent it. Very good odds the last time the secondary circuit was effectively bled was when I owned it before 2011.
All of which to say, going to suck getting it started but I'm excited to see fluid moving through!
I'd recommend no speed bleeders when fillling an empty system..... regular bleeder screws, just open them and let gravity get things started after a few minutes, then start pumping. Speed bleeders can't effectively pass air without fluid right there. Even if you use a vacuum system, I'd still leave the speed bleeders out until you got the lines initially full, then put them in for your final bleeding the old fashioned way.
FFS, the other flare up front between the rear pedal and the left caliper would not stop leaking. I had to disassemble it and clean out the mating surfaces twice after pressurizing it, following pulling fluid out of the caliper. It's not leaking "now" but I'm not going to assume it's done either. Here's hoping it's not cracked or something...
Who says you can't bleed the secondary master and proportional valve yourself? Brakes are on the money and don't leak!
Brakes are more solid than I ever remember. Tired of not having a motorcycle, I'm doing all these other upgrades later. Will get the stuff to do my rear hub checks in a couple weeks anyway, so I have another big maintenance window coming. Pictures later...
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Had time for a quick bed-in ride around my condo circle before driving off to work. Brakes are firmer and crisper and overhauled calipers sure do glide smoother than 20 year old ones! Have to put all the plastic back on, full test ride and photos coming. Looks really sharp!
Here's the final look - so much better. Cerakote and caliper overhaul by @SEBSPEED!
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Arashi rotors up front, Galfer lines, and new Cerakoted plastic pieces including the chain guards. I have a new rotor for the back but that requires taking out the rear hub. Have the parts for that, will do it next time.
Rear brake is waaaaay better than it was, including the front linked piston. One observation that will probably be common to a lot of VFRs that have "unknown" maintenance for years: there was a whole lot of rust both in the parts and the fluid, that never went clear regardless of how much I tried to clear it. The large junction on top of the battery side proportional valve is ferrous and rusts in addition to the banjo bolts. Galfer provides a stainless steel replacement for that part. I don't think anything inside the valves is ferrous but the contaminated fluid will sit and gunk up the insides.
In the end, I probably pushed at least 40 oz of brake fluid through the whole bike to flush contaminated fluid out. I used a C clamp on the front left caliper to activate or half activate the SMC, and then some circus tricks to get a pretty good flow of clear fluid from the rear reservoir all the way through. Took a while but necessary. Of all the changes the increased braking up front from the rear pedal is probably the most noticeable.
Something to look at for future installers. I rode ~100 miles yesterday and the brakes were great. But I noticed brake fluid weeping very slightly out of the left front flare nut, again. This is from the left caliper Secondary Master Cylinder to everything aft, so it is not going to pop tall under lever pressure when you test things, unless you put a clamp on the SMC I suppose. It's also not something you will obviously feel in the brakes, like any level of leak in the front lever to caliper lines.
Anyway, you can reach this junction to get a turn on it with a 14mm crows foot on the Galfer nut, and a 10mm flare nut wrench on the flare nut. I loosened the frame clamp, and used the 14mm on my socket wrench to really turn it:
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Now to ride again and see!
Well I got to tell ya, when I first saw the image of the red calipers I was not keen on the look
However once I have seen the bike back together in all its glory I must saw it looks like a million dollars
what a great balance of the red and blacks, I think the bags make it complete, well done