I'm new to sport-touring and any kind of bike that you sit forward with your weight on your wrists for that matter. After riding cruisers for a few years i took my maiden voyage this afternoon on my VFR... WOW, first of all. the only thing that seemed weird was that my wrists and hands were mangled by the time i got back from leaning on them. Actually it wasn't terrible, but certainly uncomfortable.
is there something wrong with my riding position or will i just get used to it?... any info is appreciated.
although I am a rookie in comparison to most on this site - i had a similar reaction to my first couple rides on my VFR. and found that by squeezing the tank with th eknees, and tucking th eelbows in - it improved dramatically. Others have installed Heli Bars - which raise the bars a touch - I haven't yet - not sure if I need to .
likely you are using muscles that you weren't on a cruiser.
enjoy. (BTW - did you do a NEw MEmber POSt? Watch out for Mr Hurricane if not.......) :goofy:
KK has the right idea - if you simply relax and consciously focus on bending your elbows, the wrist pain will go away AND you'll have much better control over the bike. I highly recommend reading Nick Ienatsch's book 'sport riding technique', which talks about this subject extensively.
With that being said, at 5'8" I still wanted a slightly more upright position and so installed gen mar risers. Simple install, no cable re-routing, and relatively inexpensive. These, along with riding with relaxed elbows, did the trick for me. B)
Kanadian Ken, Mar 18 2005, 12:51 PMalthough I am a rookie in comparison to most on this site - i had a similar reaction to my first couple rides on my VFR. and found that by squeezing the tank with th eknees, and tucking th eelbows in - it improved dramatically. Others have installed Heli Bars - which raise the bars a touch - I haven't yet - not sure if I need to .
likely you are using muscles that you weren't on a cruiser.
enjoy. (BTW - did you do a NEw MEmber POSt? Watch out for Mr Hurricane if not.......) :goofy:
Ken is right about squeezing the tank and tucking your elbows this helps me a lot. Also try to tighten your abs and you'll see that weight is automatically taken off your wrists. When you try this, keep in mind not to ride stiff because youll get tired fast. I installed helibars on my Viffer and its made a great deal of difference to me since I'm vertically challenged and all. The bars will be about an inch or so higher so it will make your position a bit less aggressive which helps. Best advice though is to ride a lot. You'll get use to the forward postion in time and I bet you can turn quicker too..
Depending on your age and what condition you are in, it may take months to become accustomed to the position. Not trying to scare you, just being honest. My advice is spend time on the highway at 65 mph. The wind will take the strain of your wrists and give you a chance to get use to the whole deal. To just ride around town would be brutal coming off a cruiser.
If you ride every weekend and stop frequently for breaks, your wrists will eventually get strong enough and stop hurting. Same for your bottom side. Bending the elbows is great advice, and loosening that death grip on the bars. Here's one to try, Yes officer, I was speeding to releave the weight on my wrists.
I rode sportbikes for several years and took a ride on a friend's Virago 1100 for an afternoon and I remember how much my wrists were killing me from the 'unusual' position of the bars.
If you can ride a mountain bike, you can ride a sportbike. Same riding position.
I am 44 and have small wrists. I had the same concerns as you starting out with the VFR as my first motorcycle. Just keep riding the bike as often as you can and it will not be long before the discomfort is history. Keeping fit through a program of regular exercise also helps a great deal.
Me, too, Glenn. I watched ebay for about two weeks and won an auction for a pair of used helibars. Problem solved. Had I known they'd help so much, I would have just ordered a pair.
rode about 150 miles today focusing on riding posture and keeping my back straight. and it really helped. however, doing so really made it a reach for the handle bars. I'm 6'5" so when my back is straight, i am really up there, far away from the bars. keeping good riding posture and some heli-bars will more or less solve any issue, i think. i'm gonna log some more miles, see how much better it gets, and then get a set of heli's if necessary. thanks for all the input.
Glen, I started riding a few year back on a CBR F3, a little more agressive riding posture than the VFR. It was a very "buzzy" bike. After ~10,000 miles on it I started laying on my tank bag. It helped a lot. I have continued with this technique after getting my VFR and 90,000 miles latter it is my key to comfort. You may already have a tank bag. If you move it toward the rear of the tank it will act as a cushion. I have even taken to adding an inflateable cushion inside to adjust for "ride height". This will allow you to take all the weight off your arms and back altogrther. I don't think I could get any agressive riders to endorse this tactic. Ketih Code recommends against laying on the tank when on the track.
It is very cheap to try and worth the experiment as you try to adjust to the fabulous VFR. You don't have to let your friends know you are trying this out. B)
Here's another solution. I built up both grips with a combination of rubber water hose thin rubber padding and finished with rubber tape. Right grip 1/2 inch, left grip about one inch, so I raised bars 3/4 inch. I have big hands and needed bigger grips anyway so I solved both problems. The improvement in position is amazing. I'm ready now for a saddlesore 1000 Ironbutt run. Weight on my wrists is neutral and I found myself riding with more spunk.. Ok so now I pull in my clutch with my fingertips but hey thats what that last joint is for.
Here's another solution. I built up both grips with a combination of rubber water hose thin rubber padding and finished with rubber tape. Right grip 1/2 inch, left grip about one inch, so I raised bars 3/4 inch. I have big hands and needed bigger grips anyway so I solved both problems. The improvement in position is amazing. I'm ready now for a saddlesore 1000 Ironbutt run. Weight on my wrists is neutral and I found myself riding with more spunk.. Ok so now I pull in my clutch with my fingertips but hey thats what that last joint is for.
Helibars and more time on the bike. Helibars are not only a little taller, they are also adjustable, allowing you to move them back toward yourself. And they also are not turned down as much as the factory clip-ons.
A little bit of weightlifting (Squats, deadlifts) and core strength exercises (crunches, leg raises) and some weight loss if applicable will also make the bike far more comfortable.
Riding a bicycle a few times a week will also really help.
I used to use a tank bag and lay on it on the highway but I don't really feel I need it on the VFR, and I hate having a tankbag in the twisties.
glennl, Mar 18 2005, 01:44 PMI'm new to sport-touring and any kind of bike that you sit forward with your weight on your wrists for that matter. After riding cruisers for a few years i took my maiden voyage this afternoon on my VFR... WOW, first of all. the only thing that seemed weird was that my wrists and hands were mangled by the time i got back from leaning on them. Actually it wasn't terrible, but certainly uncomfortable.
is there something wrong with my riding position or will i just get used to it?... any info is appreciated.
Yes there is. The bulk of your weight should be on the balls of your feet. get your butt forward on the seat. I feel like I'm preaching but I went to the Freddy Spencer school a month ago and as you can imagine, it changed my life! By putting the weight on the balls of your feet, you can get your body position and weight distribution correct. When cornering, your butt, shoulders, and head need to move to the inside of the turn. The instructors regularly had only one hand on the throttle as they were giving us hand signals with the other, lapping the track at 50-70mph. Proves that your arms and wrists have little to do with steering the bike correctly. Certainly not what the MSF course told me but who ya gonna believe? I choose Freddy. The coolest effect of this is how much smoother you can be with the throttle and brake hand. It's physically impossible to be smooth (extremely fine detailed small movements) with your weight on your arms. Try signing your name while doing a push up. The week after I got back from the school, I did a 2 hour ride on twistys that normally I'd have to stop and rest on, and couldn't stop laughing at how much easier riding had become. The only fatigue should be in your legs. Doesn't have anything to do with the bike or your height or weight. Another end effect of riding correctly will be to use less lean angle and turn sharper which equals SAFER RIDING! I believe what the World Champ told me!
AZVFR, Mar 30 2005, 02:25 PMYes there is. The bulk of your weight should be on the balls of your feet. get your butt forward on the seat. I feel like I'm preaching but I went to the Freddy Spencer school a month ago and as you can imagine, it changed my life! By putting the weight on the balls of your feet, you can get your body position and weight distribution correct. When cornering, your butt, shoulders, and head need to move to the inside of the turn. The instructors regularly had only one hand on the throttle as they were giving us hand signals with the other, lapping the track at 50-70mph. Proves that your arms and wrists have little to do with steering the bike correctly. Certainly not what the MSF course told me but who ya gonna believe? I choose Freddy. The coolest effect of this is how much smoother you can be with the throttle and brake hand. It's physically impossible to be smooth (extremely fine detailed small movements) with your weight on your arms. Try signing your name while doing a push up. The week after I got back from the school, I did a 2 hour ride on twistys that normally I'd have to stop and rest on, and couldn't stop laughing at how much easier riding had become. The only fatigue should be in your legs. Doesn't have anything to do with the bike or your height or weight. Another end effect of riding correctly will be to use less lean angle and turn sharper which equals SAFER RIDING! I believe what the World Champ told me!
that makes a lot of sense. and it works! i actually kind of accidentally stumbled across this while messing around with different riding positions. moving my butt up toward the tank helped a lot. thanks.
glennl, Mar 30 2005, 04:32 PMthat makes a lot of sense. and it works! i actually kind of accidentally stumbled across this while messing around with different riding positions. moving my butt up toward the tank helped a lot. thanks.
No problemo! People are gonna start to get annoyed with my referencing Freddy all the time but it really did change my life as far as riding a bike is concerned. I don't consider myself to be a great rider but my foundation of techniques came from the school and corrected some bad habits before they became instinct. I've only been riding street bikes for 9 months but have as much confidence now as some of my very experienced friends. When I say confident, not to say that I can ride as fast as they do. But I know what the bike's limits are and what my limits are. The gap between the two is pretty large but with consistant practice, it will shrink.
As far as competitive (fast) riding is concerned the above post are right on. But some of us old farts consider the VFR a Touring bike and enjoy riding coast to coast for the hell of it. Bar risers and bigger grips are legit if you want a 1000 mile day. I have an Ironbutt licence plate cover on my BMW but my VFR wants one too. I'll get some pics up of my bars next month.
How do I start a new thread? My question is this. Do any of you guys and gals NOT use the clutch. I'm a OTR truck driver and we only use the clutch to get rolling. I've tried shifting on my VFR and BMW without the lever and it seems to work fine. But am I damaging the gears? Cycle World tech guys say clutchless shifts are a bad idea, but their staff pays no mind. Those guys are like truck drivers- clutch is just to get rolling.
glennl, Mar 18 2005, 12:44 PMI'm new to sport-touring and any kind of bike that you sit forward with your weight on your wrists for that matter. After riding cruisers for a few years i took my maiden voyage this afternoon on my VFR... WOW, first of all. the only thing that seemed weird was that my wrists and hands were mangled by the time i got back from leaning on them. Actually it wasn't terrible, but certainly uncomfortable.
is there something wrong with my riding position or will i just get used to it?... any info is appreciated.
Along with raising the bars, try adjusting your riding position to the one described in this link. It's a post from a BMW Sport Touring board, and it improves the ride (and your handling of the bike!) for most anything but cruisers
Laney, Mar 31 2005, 06:34 AMAlong with raising the bars, try adjusting your riding position to the one described in this link. It's a post from a BMW Sport Touring board, and it improves the ride (and your handling of the bike!) for most anything but cruisers
What a great link......thanks. :thumbsup: Personaly I am going to reread this three of four times......sounds like I have a bunch of stuff to "unlearn" :blink:
gray1, Mar 30 2005, 11:23 PMHow do I start a new thread? My question is this. Do any of you guys and gals NOT use the clutch. I'm a OTR truck driver and we only use the clutch to get rolling. I've tried shifting on my VFR and BMW without the lever and it seems to work fine. But am I damaging the gears? Cycle World tech guys say clutchless shifts are a bad idea, but their staff pays no mind. Those guys are like truck drivers- clutch is just to get rolling.
Gray,
You can usually pull of clutchless upshifts with no damage to the gearbox. I'm sure you know the technique: preload shifter, very quick roll-off/roll on to unload the engagement dogs and complete the shift.
Clutchless downshifts are another matter. You can do 'em but they are much more difficult to get done smoothly than on the upshifting side and the penalty for getting it wrong can be high.
All of this begs the question, "why?"
Ordinary shifting creates little to no addition wear on the clutch, and it doesn't take much more effort to touch the clutch lever to shift than to do without.
[quote=gray1,Mar 30 2005, 10:23 PM] As far as competitive (fast) riding is concerned the above post are right on. But some of us old farts consider the VFR a Touring bike and enjoy riding coast to coast for the hell of it. Bar risers and bigger grips are legit if you want a 1000 mile day. I have an Ironbutt licence plate cover on my BMW but my VFR wants one too. I'll get some pics up of my bars next month.
I think I understand why but correct me if I'm wrong...the bar risers make the seated position more like a cruiser than a sport bike? I can see the benefit of that but I still think that even on runs of 2-3hours (which I do regularly) the body position thing is valid. I haven't had a fatigue problem since learning it. Congrats on the ironbutt! I don't think I'll ever do that kind of riding!
[quote=AZVFR,Mar 31 2005, 07:26 PM] [quote=gray1,Mar 30 2005, 10:23 PM] I think I understand why but correct me if I'm wrong...the bar risers make the seated position more like a cruiser than a sport bike? [/quote]
Hardly, just a slightly more upright position.
Rod.
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 1 May 2005