when i took the MSF safety course, one of the things they drilled home was the idea of getting four fingers on the brake and clutch lever, and not doing any one or two finger grabs. in general it seems like a good idea, but flipping through Sport Rider magazine, i see a lot of obviously good riders, dragging a knee through the corners with just their index finger covering the clutch or brake pedal (not to mention the fact they drilled home NOT to hit the brakes in a corner anyway).
are these otherwise expert riders who have just developed bad habits? or is that a technique that's necessary for some reason or another when you get to that riding level? just curious...
glennl, Mar 20 2005, 01:28 PMwhen i took the MSF safety course, one of the things they drilled home was the idea of getting four fingers on the brake and clutch lever, and not doing any one or two finger grabs. in general it seems like a good idea, but flipping through Sport Rider magazine, i see a lot of obviously good riders, dragging a knee through the corners with just their index finger covering the clutch or brake pedal (not to mention the fact they drilled home NOT to hit the brakes in a corner anyway).
are these otherwise expert riders who have just developed bad habits? or is that a technique that's necessary for some reason or another when you get to that riding level? just curious...
I use 2 fingers to cover the brakes full time and when I use the clutch, I use 2 fingers - but don't cover the clutch. I like the feeling of control of having 2 fingers firmly around the grip while using the levers.
This topic has come up a bit on other forums. Consensus seems to be to do what is comfortable to the rider to allow for the best and safest braking and not employ something that is uncomfortable.
I also find that not giving the grip a death grip allows for a more comfortable ride and I don't muscle the bike around.
I'm interested in your question and finding out what the MSF position is.
based on my experience, MSF is all about four fingers. however, they also probably don't have racing in mind when they teach you, so at some point or skill level, there may be a need for that technique.
The I took the MSF course, they stressed 4 fingers, and when I questioned the instructor about it, he said that during the course, they want 4 fingers to get enough pressure on the brakes, and with the bike I was on, I almost needed 2 hands to get enough pressure on the front brake to stop in the distance they wanted.
I was just reading a sport rider article last night that talked about performance braking. They commented that a modern sports bike only needs 1 or 2 fingers worth of pressure.
http://sportrider.com/ride/146_9510_rss/Personally, I always keep 2 fingers on the brake when in town, and none when I get on straight highway rides. I come from a dirt background, and using more than 2 fingers when you are bouncing around is just asking to fly off the bike, or putting more pressure on the brakes than you want.
The clutch is another story. On my KDX I would shift with 2 fingers on the clutch. I don't know if it age, or my left arm is not as strong as it was, but on my vfr I cannot work the clutch comfortable with less than 4 fingers. I think I'm going to try one of those adjustable lever things, but thats a different topic.
I guess the question really comes down to what feels safe to you.
i took a msf course to get a discount on insurance for the ducati i had. i kept getting scolded for covering the front brake and not using 4 fingers. constantly!. as soon as i was done i again went back to what i was comfortable with, 2 and 2, with the brake covered most of the time.
You can't blip/downshift with 4 fingers, so I always use 2 fingers on the brake. Oddly enough, I use 4 fingers on the clutch. Probably overkill, but that's how I do it. :D
Initially it was 4 fingers for the clutch and 4 (I think) for the brake. After reading the mags I switched to 2 & 2. It was awkward initially and my fingers were really fatigued. It is now more comfortable with 2 fingers and using 4 fingers now feel awkward.
VFRMike.
glennl, Mar 20 2005, 06:28 AM
are these otherwise expert riders who have just developed bad habits? or is that a technique that's necessary for some reason or another when you get to that riding level? just curious...
I prefer 2 fingers for the street and 4 fingers for the track or racing...
This is kind of another of those "grey" areas in some respects.
Everyone's pretty much summed it up.
MSF teaches 4 fingers for beginners for the reasons listed.
The logic behind two fingers is that it reduces reaction time to get on the front brake, and as Lewis mentioned, allows you to brake,blip, and downshift simultaneously......great skill but does take some practice.
It's a very personal thing (hence the "grey"area) and you'll see many variations. Seems like most racers and experieinced riders tend to favor the two finger method for all the reasons a logic stated.
Rossi seems to use four fingers from vid clips I've seen, so as you can see....it's really a matter of how you want to do it using the info and reasoning at hand. ;)
Das Bone, Mar 20 2005, 01:24 PM
Rossi seems to use four fingers from vid clips I've seen, so as you can see....it's really a matter of how you want to do it using the info and reasoning at hand. ;)
I use to show Rossi all my trick techniques until he started riding those stinky inlines... 8-)
Das Bone, Mar 20 2005, 01:24 PMRossi seems to use four fingers from vid clips I've seen, so as you can see....it's really a matter of how you want to do it using the info and reasoning at hand. ;)
Rossi? Is he fast or sumptin? :lol:
ULEWZ, Mar 20 2005, 03:46 PM
Rossi? Is he fast or sumptin? :lol:
I've seen Rossi race in person at Mugello... he's sumptin all right...
(IMG:
http://www.fox302.com/userdata/netters2/files/ShopPics/MugelloCircuit.JPG)
BusyLittleShop, Mar 20 2005, 05:11 PMI've seen Rossi race in person at Mugello... he's sumptin all right...
(IMG:http://www.fox302.com/userdata/netters2/files/ShopPics/MugelloCircuit.JPG)
So, uh, err, which one are you?? :lol:
vfrjim2002, Mar 20 2005, 07:31 PMSo, uh, err, which one are you?? :lol:
more mr rc 45 1/2 and pictures for every occassion. if he's the boobed one on the right he's ok looking!
vfrjim2002, Mar 20 2005, 06:31 PMSo, uh, err, which one are you?? :lol:
He's the one walking the pet bag. :blink:
Hurricane249, Mar 20 2005, 08:06 PMHe's the one walking the pet bag. :blink:
I hope it's had its shots... (IMG:
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/527.gif)
tbzep, Mar 20 2005, 08:09 PMI hope it's had its shots... (IMG:http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/527.gif)
You have just been waiting for the perfect opportunity to use that little bitch haven't you? :lol:
Hurricane249, Mar 20 2005, 10:36 PM(IMG:http://www.websmileys.com/sm/fingers/fing36.gif)
too much rot gut, and too much bourbon I suppose gents? :beer:
ULEWZ, Mar 20 2005, 08:56 PMNice hat! :P
Hey Gilligan, have you seen the Skipper? :lol:
:huh: who are the two guy's on the right? whats the purpose of the picture? whats the meaning of life? why so many questions?
I always use two fingers but when I took the MSF course they said the reason to use four is that when you wreck the lever won't cut your fingers off between the lever and the bar. I always thought this was bs and was apparently the opinion of that one instructor :blink:
Kanadian Ken, Mar 20 2005, 08:37 PMtoo much rot gut, and too much bourbon I suppose gents? :beer:
Nope, I'm being a good boy tonight. Friday night however.... :blink:
Kanadian Ken, Mar 20 2005, 08:37 PMtoo much rot gut, and too much bourbon I suppose gents? :beer:
How'd ya guess? :goofy:
But hey, even in my rot gut infested state, I ain't even thinking about acting in a :squid: like manner...such as Toy800!
tbzep, Mar 20 2005, 10:08 PMHow'd ya guess? :goofy:
But hey, even in my rot gut infested state, I ain't even thinking about acting in a :squid: like manner...such as Toy800!
I'm just glad you said it before I did. :beer:
767fixer, Mar 20 2005, 08:19 PM:huh: who are the two guy's on the right? whats the purpose of the picture? whats the meaning of life? why so many questions?
Mick Doohan and Tony (a friend of family)...
Das Bone, Mar 20 2005, 01:24 PMThis is kind of another of those "grey" areas in some respects.
Everyone's pretty much summed it up.
MSF teaches 4 fingers for beginners for the reasons listed.
The logic behind two fingers is that it reduces reaction time to get on the front brake, and as Lewis mentioned, allows you to brake,blip, and downshift simultaneously......great skill but does take some practice.
It's a very personal thing (hence the "grey"area) and you'll see many variations. Seems like most racers and experieinced riders tend to favor the two finger method for all the reasons a logic stated.
Rossi seems to use four fingers from vid clips I've seen, so as you can see....it's really a matter of how you want to do it using the info and reasoning at hand. ;)
This all comes from the instructors at the Freddy Spencer school. It's not nice to the clutch to bring the lever all the way in while shifting. Using 2 fingers lets you leave the other 2 under the lever to give you the correct clutch lever travel. Also, to use the brake and throttle smoothly, you cannot have four fingers on the brake. Two is what they recommended. I found adjusting my levers correctly and keeping my hands to the inner part of the grip their technique is very easy to use. Also, important to have NO WEIGHT on your arms or wrists. Try signing your name while doing a pushup. Can't have the detailed control you need with weight on your arms.
