Maybe this is better as a poll question, but I've been thinking about this a good deal. I've heard it said that if you ride, you WILL go down. Call it inevitability, call it fate, call it catching up with statistics, or whatever.
I am a motocyclist with average abilities. I'm 37. I ride hard, but not to the edge. I take risks, but not unnecessary ones. I have read (and continue to read) good motocycle safety books. I lurk on this site among others to try to improve my knowledge my bike, and motorcycling skills in general. And to this point in my life I have never crashed. I've dropped the bike twice. Both at very low speeds (once practicing low speed maneuvers for the M/C license test :pissed: )
Am I just lucky to this point? Or is my time coming???
I have a couple of questions related to this.
1. Have you crashed (yet?) 2. If you did, how did it happen?
I'm not looking for the gore factor here. Just some input on how crashes happen and what could or should have been done to avoid them. I've read pages and pages of statistics, but somehow it seems to me that anecdotal accounts from people who ride all the time would prove more valuable.
BTW I did a quick search for a thread like this and came up empty. If this has been discussed at length before I apologize, but would still love to have info like this in one thread.
I'd categorize myself pretty much the same as you - just three years younger. Often wondered the same thing myself. My only drop was with my 500 Babyceptor when I pulled the "duh" move of hopping off without putting the kickstand down. <_<
Seeing some of the posts down below, I remembered - on my little Yammy 2 stroke dirt bike, between the ages of 12-16, I went down more times than I can recall - a valuable, not nearly so dangerous, learning experience that was!
Well I have not crashed a motorcycle yet. But I have had numerous trips over the handle bars, and lowsides on a mountain bike when I was racing. Resulting in the normal motorcycle injuries. Mild concussion, collarbone, having your skin brushed to remove debris.
I have had some close calls, and been to the track quite a bit, haven't fallen yet. But I believe that eventually it will happen. Whether its from a supid cage or pushing past my own abilities. Just wear your gear 100% of the time.
VFRbeliever, Mar 28 2005, 08:19 PM 1. Have you crashed (yet?) 2. If you did, how did it happen?
The last time I crashed on the street, I was 15, riding without a license, and a big Cadillac pulled out from a car wash (think wet soapy streets) and stopped all 18 feet across my path. I lowsided, and the bike slid into the side of the car. I was so scared about getting nabbed by the police for being pre-license that I raised hell with the driver until she agreed it was her fault (which it was).
I have dumped it offroad on my BMW R100GS/ParisDakar by either getting too extreme in climbing or trails, or screwing around in mud and snow.
No dumps on my VFR yet. I came really close about a month ago. But, my buddy took the hit on his Ducati 900SS instead of me, by virtue of luck and line.
I don't ever want to try to match or replace my only-made-one-year pearl white paint.
As Mr. Menace above, by far my most injurious falls have been on bicycles. I have lost skin in a nearly uninterrupted stripe from ankle bone to earlobe in road bike falls. I took all the skin off of one side of my face and inside my ear cartilege while screwing around (intoxicated) on a road bike at night when I was 18. The nerves on that side of my face have never been the same.
In over 20 years of street riding I have crashed 4 times.
One time it was my fault.
The other three were caused by people that "just didn't see me"
Many close calls involving senior citizens. (no offense, just stating the facts)
One point of interest- After one crash where an elderly gentleman pulled out in front of me, I was stumbling around in a daze when I felt a tap on my shoulder. I turned to find one of toughest looking "bikers" ever, this guy was one of the 1% for sure. In a gruff voice he says "saw the whole thing, call me if you need me" and he hands me a piece of paper with his name, address, and phone number. I hope I thanked him, I was in shock,...never did need his sevices as a witness, or any other "services" he could have offered! But I'll never forget him,...all that ride are brothers they say.
My only crash was when I was 18, was riding up a backroad in the middle of the summer, saw a black speck heading towards me. I did the helmet dance, tried to avoid whatever it was, and felt a smack on my helmet. I decided that it might be a good idea to put my shield down over my face, might come across another one of them specks. Well, that speck was a yellow jacket, and he had gotten caught in the space between the top of my shield and the top of my helmet and was now crawling across my shield, right in front of my face. I paniced, threw the visor up, just as he decided it was time to get the hell outta Dodge. 50 mph of wind hit him, pushing him into my temple. I tried to grab him with my finger to push him out of my temple, but I ended up pushing him further into my temple. Then he stung me. Wasn't so bad, has happened before. Then he stung me again... and again.. and again.. and again... you get the picture. Well, I started to downshit and slow down as quick as possible, while simultaneously trying to take off my helmet. Trying ot untie a helmet strap while slowing down while being stung by a very pissed off Yellow Jacket is very hard. So, I'm still trying to get the helmet off when I feel the bike start to wobble, I guess I was below 5 mph. Smash, I'm on the ground, in the middle of the road trying to tear my helmet off my face. Finally I succeed and throw it to the side of the road. The speck flies out of my helmet, circles me then flies off. Speck 1, Dave 0. So the only damage to me was that my face swelled up like a balloon, bike had no scratches.
1. 1979, Connecticut, on my first bike (GS400) - Woman driving down the wrong side of the street towards me - I pulled of the road, waited until she passed me, then turned around to follow her so I could give her a piece of my mind. As I pulled up next to her at a stop sign, she ran it and drove right into me. Bike banged up and a trip to the Emergency room to clear the dirt out of the wounds in my elbows and knees. Lesson: Idiots, like brightly colored snakes, are to be approached with great caution.
2. 1979, Connecticut, (GS400 again right after getting the repairs done from the above incident) - riding home late at night I took an off camber acute angle uphill right hand turn a bit too hot and lowsided. There are lots of these turns in New England - good for horses and wagons 300 years ago, but a bit tight for todays vehicles. Another trip to the Dr for cleaning of wounds. Lesson: sometimes the idiot is you.
3. 1982 (GS110EZ) - riding in unfamiliar territory (Virginia Beach, Va) took a sharp left hander too hot, got the front end into the berm and lowsided again. This time I was actually wearing appropriate riding gear and no visit to the ER, and I was able to ride the bike home. Lesson - see #2.
Two crashes in the last 45,000 miles and I push it often. #1. Med. Speed low side (aprox. 60mph) : Cherohala Skyway in the rain, running about 8/10ths and hit the only tar snaked turn in the whole 54 mile road. <_< Walked away, lucky/blessed they were no on coming cars, because I would have been under them ! Also slid instead of tumbled in the wet. #2. Track day low side, side endo ( aprox. 60 mph). I found a hole between the concrete apron and asphalt that had a nice square edge. As I was leaning over clipping the apron, my front tire found this hole bending the wheel and blowing the front tire instantly. Not Fun ! Took out both sides and top of bike, I flipped, tumbled and slid a long ways getting the shit bear out of me, but didn't break anything but the tip on my finger(caught between bar end and ground). I had low end full leathers that didn't offer much in the way of good armor or padding. There would have been less pain with a better suit. Several "Should have gone down's" Lost both ends twice, but after sliding a few inch's hooked-up again without high siding. Lost the front several times but it also hooked-up again. Thank God and my Guardian Angles. :thumbsup: No your not guaranteed to crash, but it only takes the wrong debris in the right turn and your down wether your going fast or slow. Pratice hazard avoidance, it needs to be learned, you don't usually have time to think about what you can do when it happens !
2 years ago i got nailed on my ducati st4s. i was doing 30, 20 yr old on cell phone was doing 50 behind me... i didn't go down. but i was way up in the air according to eyewitnesses. don't know how, but i kept it upright. broke chain adjusters, bent rear axle, ect..... me ...tore two disks in my neck due to what doctor called helmet induced hyperextension. for once i would have been safer without a helmet!. now have a metal plate in my neck....and due to my kind attorneys i have a hemi laramie dodge ram in the driveway and a wide screen hd tv in the living room. (plus other credit debt repaid....wife a new office set up ect...)
I figure two more accidents and the house will be paid for and ill be driving a Lamborghini! I cant wait! :unsure:
Just like others have said...there have been a lot of should haves & could haves. I had a few road wrecks when I was a teenager, mostly from stunting & racing. I had too many to remember on the dirt. I'm older now and don't ride like a :squid: anymore. I've got good gear and pay attention to everything around me...but that doesn't stop from something happening.
82 racing another bike, speedwobbles on a Kawi 350 triple let go of the bike at 110 MPH, no gear other that a helmet. Massive road rash.
Later in 82, early morning not paying attn hit some gravel in a turn.
83 just jetted my GPZ750, a car pulled out in front of me, I was going about 100 MPH. Coma, broken collar bone, smashed up knee 35 days in the hospital, 6 months in a cast. Pin in knee.
2001, 70MPH lowside on fresh coolant spill on mountain road, full gear, not even a bruise. I dId not see the coolant (just slightly darker pavement)
2002 Trackday last session of the day, I was pushing the bike, lowside on my R6, spun the rear in a tight decreasing radius corner, full gear, no damage. Street tires get greasy when overheated, race tires cured that.
I guess it depends on what you are asking, (crashing I mean) In over 35 years of riding, I have been extremely lucky, and (knock on wood) have never put a street bike down. That said, over 30 years of racing in one form or another I have gone down many times. On my trials bikes, I would say at least one time everytime we go out for a practice ride, and at least once every other event. (never more than strained knee) In motocross I have been down more times than I want to remember, with injuries ranging from broken ribs(1 time), collerbone's (2) legs(4), and two concussions (1 was the worst injury, I went over the handle bars and was hit in the back of the head by the bike, at least thats what I was told, I have no memory of the crash... I was told I was out for almost 10 min.)
I have put roadrace bikes down 5 times on the track, the last one last summer at Loudon NH. 4 have been low sides, where I just messed up and tucked the front end under in slow to medium (30 to 55 mph) speed corners. The result would be minor injuries and bruised body from sliding. I had one bad wreck on a track when I highsided a TZ350 at about 80mph in 1977. That was good for a shattered left tibula and fibula (x-ray looked like someone hit a chicken bone with a hammer) and a broken collarbone.
On the road, I guess I am just lucky to have gone through my youth in one piece. while I always had bikes, there have been many years that I did not own a street bike.
The biggest reason I think I haven't put a street bike down (besides being just plain lucky) is that I am scared to death of cars, and treat everyone as if they do not see me. I Never take them for granted. On the Track, it is never "if" you are going to go down, but "when".......all you can do is wear all the protection available, accept the risk, and do everything you can to minimize it. On the street, sometimes other drivers take it out of your control,.......like the 12 year old driving on the wrong side of the road in Tn......
I guess it depends on what you are asking, (crashing I mean)
Dumps at the track are to be expected, I guess I meant street riding. I have never been to the track, but would suspect that there would be a much higher probability of laying it down in that setting.
Had two different guys from my group go down in the same corner one year apart. We try to pre-warn everyone of it when we go that way, but for some reason this corner gets a real fine sand built up every once in a while right on the line ! Most of the year it's clean ! :unsure:
1. First VFR, first week (*weep*) the parking lot at the office was newly tarred and it was a rainy day = slick surface and 1mph drop. Cracked plastics and VERY sore shoulder from angrily yanking bike up one-armed.
2. Same VFR, a few weeks later, decided to "safely" cut a corner running around an empty lot by taking a line on the nice concrete slab. Found out moments later that the concrete slab was coated in sand and grit. Rashed plastics, minor road rash, more plastics needed.
3. Same VFR, RIP. Went down in a lazy sweeper near Deal's Gap while looking back for my riding buddy that had fallen behind. In trying to check on THEM, I neglected my own ride and line and simply went wide. Bonehead mental failure that resulted in totalled bike, road rash / stitches in my knees (jeans - worthless) and a grade-3 shoulder separation. For the record, my friend was just riding a calmer pace and showed up a few moments later.
4. New VFR, a couple of weeks after getting back on the saddle. Went out on a group ride with unfamiliar riders. They were running a FAST pace and I got caught up in trying to keep up and "get back into it". Found a pickup in my lane in an 80mph sweeper, got past him fine (jerk!) but lost my focus, target-fixated on the opposite shoulder and..went where I was looking. No injuries for me, bike was cosmetically damaged and the sub-frame tweaked by the grab handle digging into the dirt. Another brain fart.
Funny story - this was in the EVerglades in Florida - the bike ended up ALMOST in a roadside creek and as I was standing there bitching another rider noted the alligator that was all of 5ft. from me growling. Don't think the Joe Rocket ballistic pants would stand up to THAT. :goofy:
Bottom line - be mentally in the ride. A moment of distraction could equal major consequences.
I have been riding all my life in one way or another. My forst and only road crash was about 13 years ago. I was pssed and riding way to fast. i passed another bike and met a Van in the other lane. I had room to reenter my lane, but a large pile of gravel in my lane made me slide into the sof shoulder. I was able to throttle and get the bike back on the pavement just in time to miss a telephone pole, when I hit more gravel and low sided. Rashed my knee and left palm pretty bad, but little else. I rode home by squeezing the clutch with my right hand to take off, and shifting without the clutch.
I've been riding on the dirt since 1981 and on the street since 1988 with no street crashes ... yet!
Crashed three times in the dirt on motocross bikes: 1) age 12 on a track - no injuries 2) throttle stuck on my CR250 and flipped - no injuries 3) Flipped on sand dunes in Pismo Dunes, California - no injuries
Guess I have been lucky and careful. Always looking for cars, sand, wet leaves, potholes, etc.
Brand new Victory Vegas, had 280 miles on it, paid for in cash.
I was sitting in the left turn lane at the corner of Las Vegas Blvd & Sahara, right in front of the Sahara Casino & Nascar Cafe.
Just sitting there, my light was red. Traffic was going thru the intersection in front of me.
Drunk asshole in a Uhaul truck decides to turn right at the last moment, cant make it... comes into my lane and runs right over me at 45mph. Then he drove away.
So now I have a large steel plate and 7 screws in my left knee. Permanant loss of some range of motion, and it always hurts in the morning. Cost me $70k in lost wages, put me in a wheelchair for a few months. Physical therapy to get my knee to bend again, was more pain than anyone should have to endure.
So, the drunk asshole was already on probation for his 2nd felony, making the hit & run on me his 3rd felony. You'd think he'd be sitting in prison, right?
Nope... he got 3 more years probation. No assetts to sue for, and the judge didnt even order him to pay any restitution. I got a small ($15k) settlement from Uhaul, and the state of Nevada picked up all the expenses that my medical insurance didnt cover, but I just got screwed on the lost wages. Not to mention, the permanant injury.
baileyrock, Mar 28 2005, 09:00 PM No your not guaranteed to crash, but it only takes the wrong debris in the right turn and your down wether your going fast or slow. Pratice hazard avoidance, it needs to be learned, you don't usually have time to think about what you can do when it happens !
I couldn' agree more with Mr. Rock.
I went up then down once. Coming thru a slow left hander (30-35mph) Hit some sand in the road> But my attention was not on the sand because right before I noticed the sand I also noticed a chain hanging across the road. Apparently the residents decided to close the road right after the exit of this turn. Well I hit the sand the bike came around on me. I gassed it cause I thought if I could get the bike upright I would have enough time to stop before the chain. Bike started to come back underneath me but then I ran out of sand and hit pavement. SNAPOLA!!!! HIGH SIDE!!! The bike and I did stop before the chain though!!
I learned a couple of lessons.
1) Know the roads you ride on...take it slower til you do.
2) I spent too much of my attention on the chain and not the available traction...it cost me reaction time.
3) High sides suck!!!
4) You can't ride with the fear of crashing, you need to be loose and attentive
5) Never lose respect for the motorcycle or get complacent...it will bite you!!!
Okay, I'll admit it. I have crashed once. And it was all because of some 31 year old guy who was trying to show off to some girls in a car.
I missed the turn and hit the ditch at speed. As a result, I flew over the bars and landed with a solid thunk on my head and front torso (thank you helmet and jacket).
I'm such a dork, but at least one who has learned his leson and is thankful to be alive.
One crash for me: Got side-swiped/rear ended by a 20 year old in an SUV coming down a hill at night. The girl was tailgating me and i came around a curve and there was a wreck. She couldn't stop as fast as i could and nailed me. My head (helmet) broke off her left side rearview. Bike was totalled, I only had a bruised toe and a scratch on my knee thanks to my riding gear. If someone would have been behind her, it would've been a different story since I ended up in the laying in the middle of the road.
Mr Pheer, Mar 29 2005, 12:31 AMNope... he got 3 more years probation. No assetts to sue for, and the judge didnt even order him to pay any restitution. I got a small ($15k) settlement from Uhaul, and the state of Nevada picked up all the expenses that my medical insurance didnt cover, but I just got screwed on the lost wages. Not to mention, the permanant injury.
:pissed: Oh...the unfathomable rage that comment should instill in every rider. How do the cagers keep getting away with garbage like this? Guy gets off scott-free 3X later?!?! Astounding.
PorradaVFR, Mar 29 2005, 09:17 AM:pissed: Oh...the unfathomable rage that comment should instill in every rider. How do the cagers keep getting away with garbage like this? Guy gets off scott-free 3X later?!?! Astounding.
Yep, totally concur. But you have to realize some states are a little more strict than others.
Still, DUI and hit and run? He should have been doing some time for that one, no doubt about it.
The biggest reason I think I haven't put a street bike down (besides being just plain lucky) is that I am scared to death of cars, and treat everyone as if they do not see me. I Never take them for granted.
Last Train has it right - cagers scare me to death and that may be why I haven't had a problem since returning to motorcycles 2 years ago after a 20 year absence.
Reading these posts, got me thinking waaaay back to my teenage years of the wrecks I had. It seemed a couple of them involved girls. The stories are good but long....I'll save them for texasmac ride. ( I would go into detail here, but apparently we can't talk about these things.)(IMG:http://websmileys.com/sm/mad/011.gif)
Tin Man, Mar 29 2005, 09:39 AMReading these posts, got me thinking waaaay back to my teenage years of the wrecks I had. It seemed a couple of them involved girls. The stories are good but long....I'll save them for texasmac ride. ( I would go into detail here, but apparently we can't talk about these things.)(IMG:http://websmileys.com/sm/mad/011.gif)
First time was in our back yard on a friends Honda Trail 70. Yeah, the back yard, that's the first duh. About 12 years old and had never been on a bike before. I decided to fly up around a huge spruce in the back corner of the fenced yard. My dad had put some logs under the edge of the fence to keep our dog from slipping under a high spot. Yes, the dog had moved the log, yes I hit it and the fence wasn't a deterant to a mini bike. I landed in the tree and the little Trail 70 went under the fence, the fence snapped back into place and the bike ripped the newly installed cable box out of the ground in our neighbors yard and since the throttle was pinned open against the ground, it spooled up about 20 feet of cable into the rear sprocket before it politely disconnected their services. A sight to behold! Me laying in a tree on one side of the fence and the bike screaming like wild fire on the other side. The guy remained a friend but wouldn't let me ride his bike again....ever. Second time was on my new '91 EX500 on an outside curve with a 4runner coming the opposite direction too hot to stay in his lane. I thought about just swapping lanes with him and passing on the left but decided otherwise and went off the right side of the road. Originally going about 50, but shut it down to about 20 before I hit the gravel shoulder and dropped over a steep embankment. Broken turn signal, rashed helmet that I never knew hit the ground until I removed it, and a smashed pinky that got caught between the ground and the bar end. Three trys to get back up the embankment and I was on my way. No he didn't stop.
I am now feared throughout the land. I can rip out cable and smash a pinky without flinching an eye.
From a post on 1000RR.net after my RR wreck...thought I would share, probably a repost and no I'm not looking for sympathy here just giving a warning...
Wow, I read this, amazing, it seems everything this said to do was NOT done for me ! The guy that found me and moved me and the bike off the road split in a hurry. I often wonder if he was the cause ? I don't know who removed my helmet. I was completely in shock and out of it. I was found by my wife and mother in a ditch, face down, massive nose bleed, 6 people standing around, none called 911 ! My wife opens my jacket and I have a basketball size bludge from the busted spleen. The doc told me I was "this close" to bleeding to death. A few more minutes and I'm dead ? Thanks Res, you are a saint. Folks, heed these words and pray somebody does the same for you and one you love someday, hope you don't need it, but you never know.
My only words to my wife when she rolled me over... I wasn't doing nothing !
Man, I get really worked up about this and I have moved on, really I have, but let me tell you all, the idiots out there will kill you. They killed my best friend's wife, they tried to kill me. And the spin on all of this, us bikers, are expendable, that's the attitude the idiots at my wreck had. Young and dumb kid, one of those million mile per hour sport bikes, out of control, oh well, he's dead. When these idiots found out I was 46, I grew up in the area, my mother was there, I was at my mom's doing chores, boy did they get apologetic.
I'll shut up now. Let's go ride
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ScootR Factory Rider
Age: 47 Joined: 25 Jun 2004 Posts: 1037 Location: Boerne Texas Bike: 04 CBR 1000RR Red, 02 Interceptor Red, 01 Magna Black
Status: Online Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:56 am Post subject:
Um...just found this, my wife's spin on the wreck, thought I would share... Guess it's good I don't remember it ?
On July 17, 04 Scott was in a serious Motorcycle accident , (He was out riding his brand new CBR 1000RR we had not had it but a month) when I arrived at the accident scene he was laying in a Fire ant bed dying on the side of the road. There was a crowd of people standing around watching him die, no one called 911. I had to ask someone to call, I was checking him for broken bones, etc....I lifted up his shirt and he had a bulge in his lower left quadrant of his abdomen. He was bleeding internally. He was airlifted to the Trauma Hospital in San Antonio. I was left at the scene of the accident filling out paperwork for DPS, answering "ridiculous questions" (or at least I thought they were at the time) and arranging for the Motorcycle to be trailered out to the House. When I got there he was already in surgery, and was in surgery for 9 hours. He had lost 5 Liters of blood (the body holds 5 Liters). The Surgeon brought me his College Ring, and his Wedding Band, (really feels funny when they do that) I thought that they were going to tell me he didn't survive by the look on their faces. He was within minutes of death according to the Surgeon. They called me night #2 @ 330 AM (he was in Intensive Care on a Respirator he was in Critical Condition and it did not look good) and told me that he was running a fever of 104+ and they were putting ice bags on him to try to lower his temperature. I knew that if they couldn't get the fever down he was going to hit a down hill slide and not come home ever. Remember , he is also Diabetic and has had 7 stents & a 5 way Bypass...... I died a Thousand Deaths that morning. He had a Ruptured Spleen. Several broken Ribs, and Several Contusions to his Frontal Lobe. He was wearing his Armor, and a really nice Shoei Helmet (the helmet saved his life). I have not recovered from this, and I guess I never will....................... He is back riding his bike, I haven't ridden mine since the wreck, don't know if I ever will again, just cant shake the picture of him laying on the side of the road and knowing he was dying. But he chooses to do this, and it's a Very Bitter Pill to swallow, knowing that his Beaten up body can't take another
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 1 May 2005
