:music: Wow. I did a search on Mobil1 and found more information than I was really looking for. Looks like most of you guys use Mobil1 and would likely chastise my vehemently for using Auto oil. However, my 2003 owners manual says not to use any oils labeled as "energy conserving" and if I believe Mobil1 is listed as such, correct?
Therefore, the question...what oil should I use? Mobil1 MX4T? Mobil1 V Twin? Honda oil? Something else?
I believe the resident experts (Scootr) current flavour of choice is the Mobil1 V Twin? I got a case a few days ago and am going to go with it instead of red cap. I'm sure I'll be back to red cap once I run out of Vtwin as it's expensive.
Do a search I'm sure you'll find lots of posts.
You'll also get some curt replies telling you to stop kicking a dead horse. HOWEVER I'm happy to indulge and help a fellow VFRD member however possible.
coldcanuk, Apr 1 2005, 04:45 PMI believe the resident experts (Scootr) current flavour of choice is the Mobil1 V Twin? I got a case a few days ago and am going to go with it instead of red cap. I'm sure I'll be back to red cap once I run out of Vtwin as it's expensive.
Do a search I'm sure you'll find lots of posts.
You'll also get some curt replies telling you to stop kicking a dead horse. HOWEVER I'm happy to indulge and help a fellow VFRD member however possible.
1. Use whichever brand oil you like as long as it isn't labeled "energy conserving" and it isn't too thick or too thin to start with.
2. If you live where it's reeeeeely cold like them Canuks, 10w40 should help you get the oil flowing through the engine easier at startup.
3. If you live down here in God's country with normal temperatures, 15w40, 15w50, 20w50 will be dandy in your VFR.
4. Regular dino oil works great.
5. Synthetic oil makes the clutch shift like buttah! (I use Mobil1 15w50 automotive oil)
6. You will get more thinning of the oil in a bike than a car because of fuel dilution and extra shearing from the transmission. (ScootR says so)
7. I've seen owners change the most expensive synthetics every 2000 miles and the cheapest regular dino oil at over 7000 miles and none of them are reporting oil related bike failures...we're talking Iron Butt type miles too.
8. I've seen one VFR rider that had clutch trouble with Mobil1, but switched to another synthetic and got great results. YMMV, but I bet you will get great service out of any of the synth oils as long as they don't have "energy conserving" stamped on them.
9. I like whiskey and beer.
10. Check your oil level often, and change on a regular basis. You can go with the manufacturer recommend intervals, or go a little shorter because of number 6 above...I change around 3k miles.
11. Spend extra on motorcycle specific oils if you want, or spend less on automotive oils if you want (but follow number 1 if you do).
12. No matter how much research you do, no matter how high up you go on the "oil expert" list, you will get differing opinions on brands, change intervals, boxers vs. briefs, etc.
13. You may now take another drink.
Addendum: It's ok to replace regular oil with synthetic, and vice versa without flushing the system. Regular filters work just fine with synthetic oil. Now back to # 13. :beer:
jleberhart, Apr 2 2005, 12:37 AMnot to use any oils labeled as "energy conserving" and if I believe Mobil1 is listed as such, correct?
The 15w-50 M1 (often called "red cap" but the new version has a different color cap - gold I think) is not labeled "energy conserving." Check the API star. That's the stuff to use if you don't want to pay the extra for the M1 20w-50 or 10w-40.
Is my understanding correct that the reason you do not use the "energy conserving" oil is that it has too much molybdenum that would lead to clutch slippage?
UroTrash, Apr 1 2005, 08:46 PMIs my understanding correct that the reason you do not use the "energy conserving" oil is that it has too much molybdenum that would lead to clutch slippage?
To simplify it a little more, it has too much slippery junk in it for the clutch to work right. :thumbsup:
UroTrash, Apr 1 2005, 07:46 PM Is my understanding correct that the reason you do not use the "energy conserving" oil is that it has too much molybdenum that would lead to clutch slippage?
Negative... there is no moly in energy conserving oil... I've been using 10/30 Energy Conserving Mobil 1 since 98 in Mr.RC45 with no clutch slipping due to oil being certified 10% slipperier than non EC oil... and it's a bike with a tall first gear good for 90mph that's known to incinerate clutch plates...
Whats confusing the issue is the fact that all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life and start to slip... so someone at some point in time added the EC 10% slipperier oil and got the clutch to slip... in error the oil was blamed and the "don't use EC Oil" myth was started... even the manufactures have gone along with the myth and didn't take the time to sort out the truth...
In short a 10% slippery oil can not defeat a wet clutch... because our clutches are not within 10% of slipping to begin with...
I used Honda HP4 in my 94 VFR and had very good results. Snick-snick shifting. However, I could tell when the oil was nearing its change interval because the shifting wasn't buttery smooth as when the oil was fresh. I always change filter with the oil.
Now, on another note (and another motorcycle) I use Castrol GTX in my '91 VFR. Previous owner did not use synthetic or synthetic blend, so I'm siticking with good ol' decomposed dinosaurs. Studies I've read indicate Castrol GTX has better shear resistance than some motorcycle specific oils. As long as its a good quality oil, your bike will do fine.
Halfasleep, Apr 12 2005, 02:35 AMFunny that nobody use Motul 5100 , I've been using it in all my bikes and I like it a lot. Do they even have Motul 5100 in the states ?
Yep, I used it exclusively up until last year.
The Motul price shot thru the roof and I can get the Mobil-1 15W50 red cap locally at Canadian Tire. The Motul I have to go to Edmonton for and that's 2 hours each way. Of course, I would never make a special trip, but still, it's not convenient.
Now I just stock up on filters in the city and get the M-1 locally and cheaper than Motul.
Oh, and the M-1 is SL rated whereas the Motul is only SG rated. SG oil rating is an obsolete standard as per API.
veefer800canuck, Apr 12 2005, 09:15 AMYep, I used it exclusively up until last year.
The Motul price shot thru the roof and I can get the Mobil-1 15W50 red cap locally at Canadian Tire. The Motul I have to go to Edmonton for and that's 2 hours each way. Of course, I would never make a special trip, but still, it's not convenient.
Now I just stock up on filters in the city and get the M-1 locally and cheaper than Motul.
Oh, and the M-1 is SL rated whereas the Motul is only SG rated. SG oil rating is an obsolete standard as per API.
Halfasleep, Apr 13 2005, 09:00 AMIs there a difference between the Motul and the Mobil red cap in how the bike is running , I mean are the gear shifting smoother ,things like that ?
Motul has a 100% ester based product. Mobils are POA.
UroTrash, Apr 2 2005, 02:46 AMIs my understanding correct that the reason you do not use the "energy conserving" oil is that it has too much molybdenum that would lead to clutch slippage?
I was told by a Mobile 1 rep. that higher viscosity oils, like 15W-50, do not qualify for the energy conservation label regardless of the moly content.
Maybe, ScottR will comment on this, as I'm curious.
To TBZEP, your's was one of the most clear and consice answers to the oil question I've yet read. No one is suffering from oil related failures. Few people even keep their bikes long enough to make the choice of oil even matter over the long run. Me, I use Actevo from Castrol, why? I like the 4 liter container's no drip spout, keeps things clean, a real nice design.
Yes, I've switched oils and noticed shifting differences.
I change oil between 2000 - 4000 miles depending on how I've used the bike and if I feel like messing with those abominal fairing clips. I always change the filter with the oil.
I have a ten year old lawn mower with unfiltered oil that still doesn't burn any oil, is air cooled, lives in the dirt, and starts on one pull. It gets whatever oil I bought for the bike. If the oil works in that situation it will work in a bike.
In another oil thread, Scootr said the energy conserving oils have little or no anti-wear additives. They also break down their viscosity in short order. I trust Scootr when he says avoid energy conserving. I love Mobil 1 V-twin for the summer and MX-4 for the winter, problem is, no one is carrying it anymore around here. Walmart is constantly out and Autozone no longer carries it. Let the search continue.
ULEWZ, Apr 13 2005, 12:38 PMIn another oil thread, Scootr said the energy conserving oils have little or no anti-wear additives. They also break down their viscosity is short order. I trust Scootr when he says avoid energy conserving. I love Mobil 1 V-twin for the summer and MX-4 for the winter, problem is, no one is carrying it anymore around here. Walmart is constantly out and Autozone no longer carries it. Let the search continue.
Same problem here. I found my local Mobil distributor and called them about the 20w50. They can sell me a case (6 qrts) for $42.39. Comes out to about $7/qrt compared to the non-existant Walmart price for the same at $6.88/qrt.
I've been using Mobil 1 MXT 10/40 and Mobil 1 V Twin 20/50. I would like to stay with Mobil 1 products. I would would prefer to stay with heavier weight oil. Since Mobil 1 V Twin is now a pain to find I'm looking at alternatives. If the choices are between the new Mobil 1 SUV 5W/40 and the new Mobil 1 EP 15W/50 gold cap (replaced red cap) which would you chose? Which would protect better? I live in Texas. It gets hot! I'm leaning towards M1 15W/50.
*disclaimer - this is only my $.02. Also this was probibly said before higher in this post, I just saw the title and figured I would toss what I know in.
On Price -
A reliable source once told me that Mobil 1 Motorcycle oils are very similar in formulation to Delvac 1, the mother of all diesel oils. The main difference is the viscometrics have been tweak from a 5-40 to a 10-40 or 20-50. The main reason for the price of the MX and V-twin being so high is the volume is soooo low compared to most grades of oil. I put Delvac 1 in my bike(~$17 a gallon at walmart), runs like a top all day long, shifts strong, and I never have to worry about drain intervals. So if you are really price sensative that is an alternative on sportbikes requiring 10-40. I would put the v-twin formula in any bike asking for a 50w.
Why not to use ILSAC (Energy Saving) oils or Automotive oils -
Well for starters you are not going to find a 40W oil today that has the ILSAC GF-4 starburst (correct me if I am wrong). You really do not want to use an automotive oil in any bike that shares the same lubricant in the gearbox and clutch. In an overly simple sense the main reason is automotive oils additive pack is designed for fuel economy and usually has higher levels of anti-wear additives. scooter996 would be able to elaborate on the additive packs. An oil with an additive pack that is designed for anti-wear and fuel economy is not going to work well with parts that require some friction. Therefore when you have parts of a transmission that need to physically mesh such as the clutch or syncros (do bikes even have syncros?) an automotive oil is actually going to make your clutch a little slicker.
scooter996 - Someone still makes synthetic engine oils with 100% Ester bastock? I thought that disapeared a long time ago.
If the choices are between the new Mobil 1 SUV 5W/40 and the new Mobil 1 EP 15W/50 gold cap (replaced red cap) which would you chose? Which would protect better? I live in Texas. It gets hot! I'm leaning towards M1 15W/50.
Thanks,
ki-speed Mark
I'd choose 40wt because not only does Honda recommend it... your engine may actually run cooler laboring against a lower viscosity oil... technically speaking owners cite no actual benefit running a 50wt except peace of mind...
If the choices are between the new Mobil 1 SUV 5W/40 and the new Mobil 1 EP 15W/50 gold cap (replaced red cap) which would you chose? Which would protect better? I live in Texas. It gets hot! I'm leaning towards M1 15W/50.
With out a question Truck and SUV M1 or Delvac 1. Both of these formulas are much better at handling the extra fuel and will play nicer with the clutches.
the Mobil EP lineup is, to use a phrase from earlier in this post, the "slipperiest" of the automotive oils. It has twice as much supersyn which is a key proprietary additive in boundary lubrication (prevents metal on metal contact) and 36% more anti-wear additive then regular mobil 1. This is a great formulation for your car, I would just hesitate to put it in my bike when there are so many other great products on the market.
These oil threads are always interesting, even more so than octane threads. I read the same sorts of comments whenever I wander over to a Goldwing forum looking for some technical idea or other.
What I don't ever quite get, though, is the insistence by true believers on oil change intervals or oil types that differ from Honda's recommendations. One of the few things VFR and Goldwing types have in common is their absolute certainty that the bikes are the best made, EVVVERRR. The Honda engineers can do no wrong, other than minor things like whatever the rectifier problem is, etc...niggling stuff compared to say, oh, the problems you run into with a [insert most hated vehicle manufacturer name here]. BUT, but, when it comes to choosing an oil, those cunning Nipponese engineers suddenly become dunces, and furthermore, they're too stupid to decide when to change the oil. If you believe $8 oil every 3,000 miles is going to somehow improve or extend the life of your motor, then by all means go for it.
I had a 1955 Dodge that burned a little oil. I also had a 1967 Volvo that would burn a little. I had a 1953 International pickup that burned and leaked so much oil we never changed it, just added a quart of USED oil every other fill-up. Other than that, I haven't ever been able to wear a motor out. I'm sticking with the guys in the white lab coats.
You may now begin excoriation procedures. :thumbsup: