I know the list of brands is far from complete but I added the major brands that seem to be talked about most here, and those you can find most anywhere - at least in the US. Other seems will be a large portion of this poll.
discuss, but dont biotch here. Facts mostly please, just gathering data here in the form of a poll
I think you need to add Rotella T to that list
You should add mileage between changes too! :thumbsup:
GN4 every 2K miles. :rolleyes:
radarI think you need to add Rotella T to that list
Ok done, did a search and it was talked about in 12 threads.
Daniel PaulYou should add mileage between changes too! :thumbsup:GN4 every 2K miles. :rolleyes:
Limited to 3 poll questions, not relevant to what I am looking for, more of what you buy than how often.
No Repsol?!? Never used the stuff but I hear some guy named Nicky likes it.. :rolleyes:
I've stuck with Valvoline for 20 or so years. I just haven't been convinced synthetic or MC specific oils have enough benefit to justify the additional mortgage on the house to pay for them. The evidence may be there, I just haven't bothered to look for it.. :lol:
:rolleyes: :lurk:
Honda Branded, Synthetic, Motorcycle Specific,10w/40..........works great, stays clean, never an oil related issue in "YEARS/ MANY MILES" of using it in all my Hondas (50cc through 1832cc/ every engine design)...... Exception: Triumph Branded/ Specially Formulated Mobil 1 Synthetic/ Motorcycle Specific, 15w/50 in the Triumph Speed Triple....... :thumbsup:
KENDALL, best crude oil in the US. Have used it for years in everything. Change it and OEM filter every 3,000 miles.
Only problem is it is getting harder to find.
Mobile One, gold cap, but only because it is was what most every one was using on here when I first got the VFR.
Never put synthetic in the car or truck
HispanicSlammerFacts mostly please, just gathering data here in the form of a poll
Miguel,
What happened to the data posted in '05 by Scott the petro-test engineer?
Good stuff, particularly the fuel contamination data.
Regards,
VFR_ATL
Amsoil 10w-40 Motorcycle specific formula for me.
skuuter trashHonda Branded, Synthetic, Motorcycle Specific,10w/40..........works great, stays clean, never an oil related issue in "YEARS/ MANY MILES" of using it in all my Hondas (50cc through 1832cc/ every engine design)...... Exception: Triumph Branded/ Specially Formulated Mobil 1 Synthetic/ Motorcycle Specific, 15w/50 in the Triumph Speed Triple....... :thumbsup:
Skuuter,
I'm not attempting to be a smarta$$ at all. I know that in recent years you have not kept bikes for a very long time and you trade around alot, so I wouldn't think that you would put a staggering number of miles on one bike. Therefore the long term effects of using a certain oil can't be seen. Have you had any other bikes in the past that you have used this iol in and stacked alot of miles on? Again, I'm not calling you out at all. Just wondering.
I'm surprised about all the responses of folks using synthetic. I thought the manual said not to use oil with certain kind of friction additives or something, and every synthetic I've seen has them in the oil?
Gap Trashskuuter trashHonda Branded, Synthetic, Motorcycle Specific,10w/40..........works great, stays clean, never an oil related issue in "YEARS/ MANY MILES" of using it in all my Hondas (50cc through 1832cc/ every engine design)...... Exception: Triumph Branded/ Specially Formulated Mobil 1 Synthetic/ Motorcycle Specific, 15w/50 in the Triumph Speed Triple....... :thumbsup:Skuuter,
I'm not attempting to be a smarta$$ at all. I know that in recent years you have not kept bikes for a very long time and you trade around alot, so I wouldn't think that you would put a staggering number of miles on one bike. Therefore the long term effects of using a certain oil can't be seen. Have you had any other bikes in the past that you have used this iol in and stacked alot of miles on? Again, I'm not calling you out at all. Just wondering.
I trade bikes a lot only in recent years(only since 2001)....have owned several bikes with 80,000 to 100,000+ miles on them over the years. I also always own more than one bike, so some stay longer than others as some get traded. A lot of the bikes I own now see 16,000 to 27,000 miles per year of daily riding. Lot of start-ups, shut-downs, twisties, cruising, etc. I had a little 750 Shadow(single/ divorced) that had 112,000 on it in 40 months once(and I owned some other bikes while I kept it).........sorry, I can't give better "qualified" opinions, maybe riders that ride "more often", and rack up "more miles" could give better evaluations on oil "durability"............................ :rolleyes:
VFR_ATLHispanicSlammerFacts mostly please, just gathering data here in the form of a pollMiguel,
What happened to the data posted in '05 by Scott the petro-test engineer?
Good stuff, particularly the fuel contamination data.
Regards,
VFR_ATL
He told me that one of his clients read the info he was posting here and he feared for his job, so he asked me to delete his account and all his posts. Too bad.
LobsterI'm surprised about all the responses of folks using synthetic. I thought the manual said not to use oil with certain kind of friction additives or something, and every synthetic I've seen has them in the oil?
Synthetic motorcycle oil won't have the friction modifiers. I use Shell Advance and it comes in many flavours but all without friction modifiers.
Moly is a wet clutch no-no.....some Honda synthetics have it, some don't..............but what do I know........... :unsure:
I'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch to
Shell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I also like the info on oil found here, they also have a great oil filter cross reference listed to and I now use only WalMart's SuperTech ST 7317 filters as they have superior filtering then most at the cheapest price(made by Champion)
HispanicSlammerI know the list of brands is far from complete but I added the major brands that seem to be talked about most here, and those you can find most anywhere - at least in the US. Other seems will be a large portion of this poll.discuss, but dont biotch here. Facts mostly please, just gathering data here in the form of a poll
If you want to throw more fuel on the fire - add a survey lines - break in with dino and add synthetic later ~7500miles or short break in oil and change immediately to synth on first oil change. I'm sure that will light a fuse....
MD
Generic and Valvoline dino oils so far, but following my winter storage oil change I'll be using Mobil 1 synthetic going forward. So far I've used Honda OEM and Fram oil filters, but plan to try a couple others next season. Also, I change my oil every 3k-4k mi.
I use Mobil 1 and have had zero issues. I found the switch to mobil made shifting much smoother as well.
I'm in a state of flux on this one, but I've got a bunch of Shell Rotella T Synthetic and am using that as a "base" to which I've added, as of this last change, Suzuki 10w40 MC oil, non-synthetic. I've noticed a bit nicer shifting with less of a notch to the action of the shifter. Thinking I may try a Kawasaki or Honda oil next go around, one quart of the MC oil and the rest Rotella T. Addendum; Purolator "auto" filter, 4,000 mile change interval.
LobsterI'm surprised about all the responses of folks using synthetic. I thought the manual said not to use oil with certain kind of friction additives or something, and every synthetic I've seen has them in the oil?
Antiwear additive:
These are perhaps the most discussed additives, which serve to protect the engine from
metal-to-metal wear. Common antiwear additives are phosphorous and zinc. Other antiwear
additives include friction modifiers like molybdenum disulphide (or moly).
Typically, synthetic oil contains less of this additive, or in some cases none at all due to its
naturally higher viscosity index. This is another reason why synthetics are better suited for the
wide range of temperatures and riding conditions associated with motor-cycle use. Viscosity
modifiers are one of the first additives that wear out in oil, and a big reason that some
synthetic oil manufacturers claim longer service life. Since they are naturally a multigrade
product without the chemical modification mineral oils require, synthetic oils will hold their
viscosity grade longer.
Can synthetic oils cause my clutch to slip?
To answer this in one word: No. Clutch slippage is caused by many things, but the use of
synthetic oil alone is usually not the culprit. The truth is that some bikes seem to suffer clutch
slippage no matter what oil goes in them, while others like the VFR run fine with any oil. This is
most likely caused by factors other than the oil, such as the spring pressure, age and clutch
plate materials. If you have a bike known for clutch problems, you may have to be more
selective in your oil choices. Moly is often blamed for clutch slippage, and it can have an
effect-but moly alone is not the problem.
Quote Mark Junge, Vesrah's Racing representative, who has won numerous WERA national
championships using Vesrah's clutches. He said that in his years of engine work he has yet to
see a slipping clutch that could be pinned on synthetic motor oil. Junge felt that nearly every
time the clutch was marginal or had worn springs, the new oil just revealed a problem that
already existed.
BaileyrockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch toShell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I always advise caution when a customer ask about Shell's Rotella T... since diesels engines live
at the slow end of the rpm scale I'm not sure that the additive package is suited for rigors of an
high revving motorcycle engine... I'm speaking of the anti foaming additives that are important to
us due to the high RPMs that can cause cavitation which will starve bearings from necessary
lubrication... In order to hold cost to a minimum Shell's chemical engineer only adds what is
necessary and anti foaming additives are not important in a slow turning diesel...
Motorex synthetic T4 10-40
Royal Purple (motorcycle specific synthetic) Cycle-Max 10w-30.
Edited December 10, 2007 by BlueFireIceI use Mobil one 15w-50 fully synthetic (not motorcycle specific) in the VFR. I use Mobil One Racing 4T, 10w-40 fully synthetic in the CBR since it sees more high rpm use.
[image: gallery_926_1969_112720.jpg]
Motorcycle Oil
MOBIL 1 GOLD TOP YEAHHHHHHH. :thumbsup:
I use Amsoil MC specific in the viscosity called for in the owner's manual. I have zero oil brand loyalty. The only reason I use Amsoil is because it is the cheapest full synthetic MC specific oil I can find where I live and I can have it delivered right to my door by the case. And, no, I don't like their marketing methods. :unsure:
Who has ever heard of an engine failure caused only by using the type of oil specified in the owner's manual that was changed at prescribed intervals or sooner using an OEM filter? I've NEVER heard of this happening on a street application.
BusyLittleShopBaileyrockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch toShell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I always advise caution when a customer ask about Shell's Rotella T... since diesels engines live
at the slow end of the rpm scale I'm not sure that the additive package is suited for rigors of an
high revving motorcycle engine... I'm speaking of the anti foaming additives that are important to
us due to the high RPMs that can cause cavitation which will starve bearings from necessary
lubrication... In order to hold cost to a minimum Shell's chemical engineer only adds what is
necessary and anti foaming additives are not important in a slow turning diesel...
Agreed, but these "C" category oils have extremely high anti sheer characteristics that should work well in our gear boxes, No?
:unsure:
"Three synthetics stand out from the rest: Mobil Delvac 1, Mobil-1 SUV and Shell Rotella T Synthetic. These are C certified industrial oils meant to be purchased in 55 gallon drums and used by companies which run a lot of diesel engines. The Commercial oils, as discussed above, have more expensive additive packages which are meant to prolong engine life and oil life, as opposed to being cheap to buy at Pep Boys and helping the car companies meet their CAFE requirements. These oils meet all the automobile requirements through SJ, and also have extra additives to help pick up gunk in the engine, to keep the oil from becoming acidic, and to maintain the oil's viscosity over a long time. In fact, the manufacturers talk about their oil's viscosity resistance to shear forces - exactly what a motorcycle needs."
Amsoil 10w40 motorcycle oil, OEM Honda car filter, every 4000 miles
he feared for his job, so he asked me to delete his account and all his posts.
There go the Facts, too bad indeed. I'll continue to follow his recommendations: Science over Myth.
Regards,
VFR_ATL
BaileyrockAgreed, but these "C" category oils have extremely high anti sheer characteristics that should work well in or gear boxes, No?
True but even if the polymers shear they still work to thicken the oil...
Polymers are exposed to two major degradation processes in the engine:
mechanical or shear degradation and thermo oxidative degradation. All
polymer-thickened oils experience a loss of viscosity at shear rates
corresponding to those existing in engine bearings. As the coiled
molecule enters a zone of high velocity gradients, it deforms. This
lengthening of the molecule allows more base oil to flow past and
the oil under high gradient shear loads experiences a viscosity loss.
Upon passing through the velocity gradient, the molecule regains
its former coiled state and the viscosity of the oil recovers. All
other things being equal, the higher the molecular weight of the
polymer molecule, the more temporary shear loss will occur.
Complete alignment of the molecule in the shear zone cannot occur
because of the counteracting entropic forces that act to retain the
coiled shape; i.e., the molecule tends toward disorder. Under severe
operating conditions such as often exist at the entrance to gear
teeth, it is possible the shearing forces acting on the molecules may
exceed the bond energy of the main chain. If the molecule is unable to
deform, the chain tears apart. This shortens the average size of the
polymer molecules and results in a permanent lowering of oil
viscosity. High molecular weight molecules (long molecules) and
molecules with weak chains have the greatest amount of tearing.
The degree of viscosity loss depends on the type of VI polymer
molecule used. Some molecules such as the polyalkylmethacrylates have
strong chains. The olefin copolymers have weaker chains but the broken
chains react with the oil and have a thickening effect. Some polymer
molecules are highly branched or incorporate dispersant side chains
which effect the polymer's ability to tolerate shear forces. The
additive engineer must therefore select a polymer type and molecular
weight that fulfills the intended purpose. Modern VI-improved oils are
adequately shear stable for aircraft engines. Straight-weight oils do
not suffer temporary viscosity loss with shear as multi-grade oils do
The viscosity of multi-grade oil in the engine will not exactly
correspond to the viscosity of the oil in the can. A lOW50 oil does
not have the same viscosity as a 50 weight oil under engine (shear)
conditions. At the oil pump, yes, but at the journal bearings where
shear forces are five or six orders of magnitude higher, the oil will
have the viscosity of a 40 weight oil. This might be more noticeable
during cold cranking where a lOW-50 multigrade may cold crank better
than a lOW oil due to temporary shear viscosity loss. Oil viscosity
does not accurately predict cold pumpability.
Thermal oxidation degradation of the polymer molecule is much more a
problem than shear degradation. During shear degradation the longer
molecules are sheared so the average molecular weight of the molecules
becomes more homogeneous. Oil viscosity loss stabilizes at this point.
With thermo-oxidative processes there is no limiting molecular weight.
The degradation process continues until the polymer is completely
destroyed. This process has a thinning effect on the oil. At the same
time, the thermo-oxidation of the oil results in a viscosity increase
of the base oil. Regular oil changes, especially under severe
thermo-oxidation conditions (turbocharging) is important.
Any decrease in oil viscosity increases wear rates and oil
consumption. If you are changing your oil at 50 hours and you notice
that your oil consumption is less during the first 25 hours than the
second 25 hours, you know that this oil is only viscosity-stable for
25 hours. You might consider shortening your oil change interval or
switch to a different brand of oil.
I printed off Scootrs test info. It was an eye opener for me. The only thing that wasn't really discussed was "when do you need the higher level of protection"? For the average rider, you can use any oil, change it regularly, and run your bike 100,000 miles, disassemble it, and not find much wear. If we're going to have the oil poll, lets not forget the filters, too. :P
Mobile 1 gold cap and mobile 1 filter every 4,000. I have since the first oil change no problems runs and shifts like a dream. :thumbsup:
BusyLittleShopBaileyrockAgreed, but these "C" category oils have extremely high anti sheer characteristics that should work well in or gear boxes, No?True but even if the polymers shear they still work to thicken the oil...
Polymers are exposed to two major degradation processes in the engine:...............................
That's a lot of BS Larry, do you have an English version of what all that crap was trying to say? :blink:
What's it saying in your words? :unsure:
Thanks
Mobil 1 Gold Cap with a Purolator Pure One filter every 3,000 miles (or so).
Never had a problem.
I miss ScootR sad.gif
He had a really cool bike :thumbsup:
ScootR, if you're out there, please come back!
BusyLittleShopBaileyrockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch toShell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I always advise caution when a customer ask about Shell's Rotella T... since diesels engines live
at the slow end of the rpm scale I'm not sure that the additive package is suited for rigors of an
high revving motorcycle engine... I'm speaking of the anti foaming additives that are important to
us due to the high RPMs that can cause cavitation which will starve bearings from necessary
lubrication... In order to hold cost to a minimum Shell's chemical engineer only adds what is
necessary and anti foaming additives are not important in a slow turning diesel...
Well the Shell Rotella T syn. exceeds all API requirements asked for by Honda(SF/SG) and meets every level except the newest SM standards. It also has the highest API C ratings(diesel) with a CI-4 Plus rating. I could be wrong, but I can't see where this oil is lacking anywhere except in additive pkgs that prolongs CAT life.
I'm learning! :thumbsup:
cassandtimMobil 1 Gold Cap with a Purolator Pure One filter every 3,000 miles (or so).Never had a problem.
I miss ScootR sad.gif
He had a really cool bike :thumbsup:
ScootR, if you're out there, please come back!
Great choices, but I think your wasting money changing out MB1 every 3k. The whole idea of a quality Syn. oil like MB1 is that it provides superior protection for much longer change intervals. :thumbsup: It you can run that crap Honda oil for 3k you can surely run MB1 for 6-8 or even 10k before it even begin to break down significantly.
The only real way to know is to have it tested though. :unsure:
The Pure One filter is one of the best too, see below:
Recommended filters. All Fit our VFR's
All have superior
filtering.
About 2.5 inches long.
* Purolator Pure One PL14612, about $6.
* Mobil M1-108, about $12.
Made by Champion.
* Bosch 3300, about $6.
Made by Champion.
About 3.25 inches long.
* Purolator Pure One PL14610, about $6.
* Mobil 1 M1-110, about $10.
Made by Champion.
* Bosch 3323, about $6.
Made By Champion.
* WalMart SuperTech ST7317,
about $2. Made by Champion.
Buy these filters
Something like a Mobil 1 motorcycle oil is about the only thing I'd run near 3k+. Mostly I do around 1,500 /2000 miles on the diesils, I can change the diesils 3 to 4 times for the cost, and the engine stays flushed out better.
The problem is more the level of metal that builds up in time in your oil, it scrubs on everything, including clutch plates.
BaileyrockBusyLittleShopBaileyrockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch toShell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I always advise caution when a customer ask about Shell's Rotella T... since diesels engines live
at the slow end of the rpm scale I'm not sure that the additive package is suited for rigors of an
high revving motorcycle engine... I'm speaking of the anti foaming additives that are important to
us due to the high RPMs that can cause cavitation which will starve bearings from necessary
lubrication... In order to hold cost to a minimum Shell's chemical engineer only adds what is
necessary and anti foaming additives are not important in a slow turning diesel...
Well the Shell Rotella T syn. also exceeds all API "S"requirements asked for by Honda(SF/SG) and meets every level except the newest SM standards and also has the highest API C ratings with a CI-4 Plus rating. I could be wrong, but I can't see where this oil is lacking anywhere except in additive pkgs that prolongs CAT life.
I'm learning! :thumbsup:
One of the ironies in Larry's argument is that ScootR's impressive research was based entirely on diesel engines. I never was quite sure what to make of it in a world where engines that spin 5 times as fast.
Personally, I've run several oils in the VFR and my 4 wheeled fleet and have always come home to RTS. In the bike I've run both grades of M1 bike oil, M1 red cap, M1 gold cap, Delvac 1, M1 Truck and SUV, and GN4 (for the first 50 miles) and based on engine temps, shifting smoothness (over time), engine/trans noise, and engine hygene RTS has seemed to be the best package. I've seen a few UOAs out of other bikes (no VFRs and I've not done one myself but probably should) that suggest it may not be wise to run it much beyond 4k miles in a bike, but I tend to change at 3,500 to 4,000 anyway so no biggie.
The cage story is similar. My wife's Maxima seems to love the stuff. At 70k miles I took a shot at using that trick German Castrol stuff. I was adding about a half quart per 3.5k OCI. Went back to RTS. Zero consumption over a 4k to 4.5k OCI and it seems to run a bit quieter.
My old Integra loved the stuff. 90k miles on M1 red cap had left a very light film of varnish under the valve cover. 20k on RTS cleaned that off. When the car died at 170k miles at the hands of a certain unlicensed, uninsured redlight runner a kid bought the engine and stuffed it in a CRX and it's still (ticking) scratch that, purring would be better. It didn't run at vfr revs but it spent a lot of it's life between 5 and 7k.
I'm quite happy with the stuff.
Edited December 11, 2007 by vfrjim2002spud786level of metal that builds up in time in your oil, it scrubs on everything, including clutch plates.
That's what we call metallic friction plates! :unsure:
vfrjim2002and have always come home to RTS.I'm quite happy with the stuff.
Can I assume RTS= Rotella T Syn?
:thumbsup:
Baileyrockvfrjim2002and have always come home to RTS.I'm quite happy with the stuff.
Can I assume RTS= Rotella T Syn?
:thumbsup:
You betcha. :thumbsup:
So does anybody send in used oil samples to a lab for analysis?
I guess I'm a bit on the lazy side because I opted for the Mobil1 just so I wouldn't have to change the oil as often.
I like Mobil 1 gold cap best, but it got too expensive, so now I use Mobil 1 grey cap. Way cheaper, and I just change the oil more often. I tried Rotella T, but didn't like that is always looked dirty, even when fresh. My tranny seems to shift the smoothest on Mobil 1 gold cap, but the silver cap is a close second. It was knotchy with the T.
ULEWZI tried Rotella T, but didn't like that is always looked dirty, even when fresh.
That's funny, after 3 session and 3 endows the Shell Rotella still looks new in my F4i track bike! :blink:
Were you been boy? :unsure:
dutchinterceptorSo does anybody send in used oil samples to a lab for analysis?I guess I'm a bit on the lazy side because I opted for the Mobil1 just so I wouldn't have to change the oil as often.
I keep saying I'm going to stock up on the Blackstone kits, but never follow through. The story of my life. :unsure:
As to the change intervals, as little as riding as I've gotten done in the last year or so, I've been running out the clock on the oil before I hit the mileage limits. sad.gif
Edited December 11, 2007 by vfrjim2002dutchinterceptorSo does anybody send in used oil samples to a lab for analysis?I guess I'm a bit on the lazy side because I opted for the Mobil1 just so I wouldn't have to change the oil as often.
Dutch I did 2 samples back in the first 10,000 miles, I did about 5 oil changes in the first 6000 mile, that was with rotella syn. I was seeing alot of contaminant even at 1000 mile intervals, between 6 to 9 ,000 mile I did the samples, Amsoil 15w40 generated the same wear numbers as the Rotlella syn but amsoil had double the miles. Both were out of spec on viscosity and flash point 1100mile on rotella and 2000 on Amsoil, there was also some fuel dilution.
After about 10 or 15,000 mile My oil started holding up alot better, I havent felt the need to retest.
I just wanted to see what the analisys said versus my eyeball on my oil dumps.
BaileyrockRecommended filters. All Fit our VFR's
Does the same filter fit all VFR generations?
...also, before this thread goes tankslapping and gets closed... How to choose the proper viscosity of synthetic oil? The service manual recommends 20W40 or 20W50 for temperatures above 32F (which is all we get here in Florida), is that what I should use? Or are there different rules for synthetic oils?
BaileyrockGreat choices, but I think your wasting money changing out MB1 every 3k. The whole idea of a quality Syn. oil like MB1 is that it provides superior protection for much longer change intervals. :thumbsup: It you can run that crap Honda oil for 3k you can surely run MB1 for 6-8 or even 10k before it even begin to break down significantly.
Dude, this is coming from a guy who has 55 ba-zillion miles on his V-tec without a valve adjustment.
10k? Uh, you're killin' me man :unsure:
Just pullin' yer leg Bailey :thumbsup: I've had waaayyy too much wine tonight for these oil discussions!
Edited to add: I stil miss ScootR sad.gif . Where are you man? Where's the cool bike?
BaileyrockThat's a lot of BS Larry, do you have an English version of what all that crap was trying to say? :blink:What's it saying in your words? :unsure:
Thanks
You're welcome... this is where ScootR would come in and translate my
techno babble with don't worry about the polymers... like even if they do
shear they still work to thicken your earl...
CitizenOfDreams...also, before this thread goes tankslapping and gets closed... How to choose the proper viscosity of synthetic oil? The service manual recommends 20W40 or 20W50 for temperatures above 32F (which is all we get here in Florida), is that what I should use? Or are there different rules for synthetic oils?
Viscosity is one property of oil that the owner has some control of. Using the proper grade
(viscosity) of oil for the ambient temperature conditions is an essential criteria for long engine
life. The engine will not give you good service life if you use 50 weight oil in 40 degree weather.
That's way Honda can recommend a 10-40...
The viscosity of oil increases rapidly with pressure. Viscosity increase with pressure is of great
importance because it keeps the lubricating oil from squeezing out from between highly loaded
surfaces such as gear teeth.
This increase in viscosity with pressure is expressed as the pressure viscosity coefficient. For
example, lubricating oil at 300,000 psi has the same viscosity as nylon. At these pressures, the
oil film becomes sufficiently viscous to deform steel elastically. This type of lubrication is called
"elastohydrodynamic lubrication".
There is no "ideal" viscosity. Motorcycle oil must act not only as a gear lubricant, but also as a
journal lubricant. The oil must operate at high temperatures within the ring pack and at lower
temperatures in the gear box.
Since oil viscosity influences fuel consumption, auto makers, for example, desire lower viscosity
oils. Lower viscosity oils mean lower film thicknesses and more wear. The proper oil viscosity for
the engine is a compromise. Everything wouldn't be too bad but the oil's viscosity changes with
temperature.
Ideally, motorcycle oil should have the viscosity of a 10 weight oil at low temperatures and the
viscosity of a 40 weight oil at high temperatures.
The reason Honda's shop manual recommends oil viscosities in the 10/40 range is because of
superior tight bearing clearances. Using thicker oils will interfere with oil flow and the oil
pressure will increase.
Sweet, another oil thread... and all three MODS are here too!! How much trouble can we get into? smile.gif Where is fixxer wink.gif
So I was at the dealer getting the 4K service done and asked for synthetic in the 07 VFR... and was told not to worry about that now because synthetic is "too slippery for such a new bike." I told them put it in there anyway.
The same guy recommended synthetic for my CBR (which does not even have 20K on it) when I took it in for service!!
I usually stick to the book on oil changes... but some are changing more often than I. Is there a reason to change more often? I don't ride that hard most days :unsure:
WHOA!!! who changed the line under my avatar? SWEET!!
:goofy:
Bel-Ray EXP semi-synth has been a favourite of mine since my teenage dirtbag, err, dirtbike years. Stripping a motor down that had been running on Bel-Ray oil always revealed cleaner internals than any of my mate's motors which were using other oils. Of course there is such a thing as 'too clean' - high detergent levels may wash more lubricant off than is ideal - but I never had any failures or undue wear.
I'm a bit of a 'change it every other interval' type of user. I think I would average an oil change every 10 000km... the top end of my 98 000km motor still looks good. When I swap to a full system I'll pull the sump off and see what's going on downstairs. Anyway, the sooner it spins a bearing the sooner I can bore it out, yes?
While on oil, I love seeing those gooses who insist on giving their throttle (or pedal) a good blip then shutting the motor down before the revs start to drop. What's with that? Washing the cylinder walls down with unburnt fuel... you can imagine the accelerated wear on start-up.
I used to think about getting fancy with my oil changes, but I have a tough time finding synthetic oils that don't have a bunch of additives. In addition, I could never seem to find the correct grade numbers in synthetic oil. The motorcycle specific synthetic oils seem so expensive. So I eventually just decided to go with what the owner’s manual recommends. Now I just use Castrol GTX 10W40. It is cheap and easy to find. I figure that frequent changes of cheaper oil, is better than less frequent changes of expensive oil. Besides, all the oils have to meet certain standards. I suspect that we are talking about the last 5% between the various oils.
Why don't we ever talk about which brand of gasoline to use? In reality Shell gasoline may have come from an Imperial Oil refinery or vise versa. They trade the stuff back and forth all the time. I suspect motor oil it the same story. The oil all originates from the same place, at least when we are talking dino oil.
BaileyrockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch toShell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I also like the info on oil found here, they also have a great oil filter cross reference listed to and I now use only WalMart's SuperTech ST 7317 filters as they have superior filtering then most at the cheapest price(made by Champion)
+1.gif I used the Mobile 1 for years, but I think the Rotella is just as good and 2 bucks cheaper per quart. I should probably change it more often. I didn't change it last spring after it sat most of the winter which was probably not a good idea, but didn't take any long stressful rides. When I did change it I noticed the bike ran better. Whoops, won't make that mistake this spring.
The PhantomWhile on oil, I love seeing those gooses who insist on giving their throttle (or pedal) a good blip then shutting the motor down before the revs start to drop. What's with that? Washing the cylinder walls down with unburnt fuel... you can imagine the accelerated wear on start-up.
I'm familiar with accelerated wear on start up if the oil viscosity is too thick and it takes more time
for the oil to reach the crank and lift it off off the main bearings but in these modern times of
micro managed fuel I doubt there's enough unburnt fuel to create a problem... what evidence do
you have to support your warning???
Imagine how much effort it must take to clean this oil enough to put in our motorcycles.
[image: 300pxoil_sands_open_pit_mining.jpg]
Anyway, back to work now.
BusyLittleShopI'm familiar with accelerated wear on start up if the oil viscosity is too thick and it takes more timefor the oil to reach the crank and lift it off off the main bearings but in these modern times of
micro managed fuel I doubt there's enough unburnt fuel to create a problem... what evidence do
you have to support your warning???
Yep, not the same as doing it with carbs, or worse yet, carbs with nice cc volume accelerator pumps............. wink.gif
Only mildly :unsure:
What oil do yous think got spewed all over the GT corner at Assen in 2002? Rotella? :goofy:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=xZULbJOybEQ&...feature=related
I've used a lot of Mobile 1, but currently am using Kawasaki full synthetic which is manufactured by Motul. I work at a shop
and have a choice of several, but between these two I use the one that I get the best buy on. Prices seem to vary from time to time.
Edited December 13, 2007 by MickeyHispanicSlammerI know the list of brands is far from complete but I added the major brands that seem to be talked about most here, and those you can find most anywhere - at least in the US. Other seems will be a large portion of this poll.discuss, but dont biotch here. Facts mostly please, just gathering data here in the form of a poll
Ya fergot Mobil MX4T
I use plain honda (gn4?) or mc specific castrol 10/40 or 20/50 depending on time of year. changes are 3-5k intervals. based on what i've seen on this & other threads, i get the gut feeling that i'm buying overpriced oils, but i'll probably continue with mc specific oils just the same.
checking the survey... i was surprised at the extent of synlube users. i guess i'm just a dinosaur.
Edited December 13, 2007 by BT-O-NegI used Mobil 1 Clean 5000 and a Wally World ST7317 Oil Filter.
Wasn't sure if the Mobil 1 Clean 5000 10W 40 was ok to use in the VFR I wanted to get the MX-4T but the place I went to didn't have it so I picked up the Clean 5000 after getting home I check the Mobil Website and here is what they had to say... I believe the VFR API is SJ so I think I'm fine till the next oil change by the way where is the best place to find Mobil 1 MX-4T ?
Can I use Mobil Clean 5000 in my motorcycle or my boat engine?
For four-cycle motorcycles, we recommend Mobil 1 MX-4T 10W-40 and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50. These products are designed specifically for four-cycle motorcycles, including wet clutch applications. If your boat engine calls for an API SM, SL, SJ, SH or SG rated oil, you can use Mobil Clean 5000. However, we recommend that you follow the recommended oil change interval in your owner's manual.
EJS4029I used Mobil 1 Clean 5000 and a Wally World ST7317 Oil Filter.Wasn't sure if the Mobil 1 Clean 5000 10W 40 was ok to use in the VFR I wanted to get the MX-4T but the place I went to didn't have it so I picked up the Clean 5000 after getting home I check the Mobil Website and here is what they had to say... I believe the VFR API is SJ so I think I'm fine till the next oil change by the way where is the best place to find Mobil 1 MX-4T ?
Can I use Mobil Clean 5000 in my motorcycle or my boat engine?
For four-cycle motorcycles, we recommend Mobil 1 MX-4T 10W-40 and Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50. These products are designed specifically for four-cycle motorcycles, including wet clutch applications. If your boat engine calls for an API SM, SL, SJ, SH or SG rated oil, you can use Mobil Clean 5000. However, we recommend that you follow the recommended oil change interval in your owner's manual.
mx4t , autozone is the cheapest place
mickHispanicSlammerI know the list of brands is far from complete but I added the major brands that seem to be talked about most here, and those you can find most anywhere - at least in the US. Other seems will be a large portion of this poll.discuss, but dont biotch here. Facts mostly please, just gathering data here in the form of a poll
Ya fergot Mobil MX4T
That would probably still fall under Mobil 1 and I guess its Racing 4T now. That's what I'm currently using. Been buying it at OReilley's.
mickHispanicSlammerI know the list of brands is far from complete but I added the major brands that seem to be talked about most here, and those you can find most anywhere - at least in the US. Other seems will be a large portion of this poll.discuss, but dont biotch here. Facts mostly please, just gathering data here in the form of a poll
Ya fergot Mobil MX4T
I put brand names in one catagory - Moble Covered, motorcycle specific in another - MX4t Covered, too many product lines to go that route your talking about, listing every product is too intensive for a simple poll motorcycle specific covers it.
2 liters Royal Purple 10w40, 1 liter Castrol motorcycle oil non synthetic 10w40 and top off with a squirt of Lucas Oil treatment. Haha
spotthedogg2 liters Royal Purple 10w40, 1 liter Castrol motorcycle oil non synthetic 10w40 and top off with a squirt of Lucas Oil treatment. Haha
Finally someone else that blends oils makes a statement, I was starting to feel alone here.
Ive run alot of different oils
I've been running 15w40 Motorcraft diesil oil for the past few months, thats one that I havent seen anybody use. I like it fairly well
2 royal purples, 1 casttrol and 1 lucas( Now Thats FRICKIN SCAREY)
Edited December 15, 2007 by spud786BaileyrockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch toShell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I also like the info on oil found here, they also have a great oil filter cross reference listed to and I now use only WalMart's SuperTech ST 7317 filters as they have superior filtering then most at the cheapest price(made by Champion)
What exactly Shell Rotella T Synthetic did you use? I went to Wal-mart this morning but don't know which one for VFR. I appreciate your help.
IrvineguyBaileyrockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch toShell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I also like the info on oil found here, they also have a great oil filter cross reference listed to and I now use only WalMart's SuperTech ST 7317 filters as they have superior filtering then most at the cheapest price(made by Champion)
What exactly Shell Rotella T Synthetic did you use? I went to Wal-mart this morning but don't know which one for VFR. I appreciate your help.
As far as I know they only make one Shell Rotella T Synthetic and it's a 5w-40 in blue gallon jugs.
:wheel:
Does anyone see some reason why I should not switch to Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 4-cycle motorcycle oil in the VFR? I would like to switch to Mobil One Racing 4T, 10w-40 fully synthetic, I am running standered oil now and would like to switch to synthetic, after reading articles on motor oil, I "should" be able to get better performance out of a synthetic oil but have not found an article on if I can switch from standered oil to syntheic any input?
sigsauer33Does anyone see some reason why I should not switch to Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 4-cycle motorcycle oil in the VFR? I would like to switch to Mobil One Racing 4T, 10w-40 fully synthetic, I am running standered oil now and would like to switch to synthetic, after reading articles on motor oil, I "should" be able to get better performance out of a synthetic oil but have not found an article on if I can switch from standered oil to syntheic any input?
Sport Rider Oil Test is a informative article on syntheic oils...
Part 1
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html
Part 2
That was a good read, and I am now sure that I am going ot switch over to a syntheic oil but now I am not sure as to what brand/weight as well as will I have any problems switching over from a regular oil to a syntheic?
sigsauer33That was a good read, and I am now sure that I am going ot switch over to a syntheic oil but now I am not sure as to what brand/weight as well as will I have any problems switching over from a regular oil to a syntheic?
Good luck on the "brand"..... :P , but no, you'll have no problem switching over............. :thumbsup:
Scootr knew his motor oil for sure. I communicate with him rarely but it has been over a year since I heard from him.
Ok my memory is not worth spit but if I'm not mistaken Skootr, tested fuel and oil but not necessarily strictly related to diesels. He was however working on a white paper related to new lubricants required by the new stringent emission standards. If I'm mistaken I apologize.
One other point --- BTW I'm in awe of the motor oil experts on here but have one question.
Someone maybe BR mentioned that diesel engine oil was not the way to go since diesel engines had such low revs. I am of the notion that diesel engines have tons of torque and could require lubricants equal to any application.
VFRVeryFunRideScootr knew his motor oil for sure. I communicate with him rarely but it has been over a year since I heard from him.Someone maybe BR mentioned that diesel engine oil was not the way to go since diesel engines had such low revs. I am of the notion that diesel engines have tons of torque and could require lubricants equal to any application.
That was BLS questioning that, but all these diesels oils Exceed all requirements for our bikes that Honda asks for and the good ones carry additive packages that resist shear which should be advantageous for our gear boxes!
Motul Oil BARGAIN FINDER ALERT, EBAY ITEM #250188784507 seller treads0130
$4.25 per liter , was $68 shipped on 4 gallons or 1 full case of 4 qty , 4 litre bottles
Ok, my oil story again, I like Cheap, this moto sport is money $$$ intensive so I find deals,
1st I used Maxima Ultra Full syn which is top notch, heres why, I got a FREE case, is $15 per litre..bought a case of it for my supermoto because it had a very wide visocity range 5w50 , a couple bottles had thick sludge in em, like old school stp , not cool, so maxima rep send me another Free case with many extra goodies to make good on, this maxima stuff ran out, I then switched to mobil 1 racing 4t 10w40 at autozone at $9.99 per litre, is very good but man thats $30 plus $7.50 oem filter (try mail order from service Honda) too much $$$ for me, mr cheapo so I have been using Motul oil in my dirtbikes 15 years now, is racing level stuff, burns super clean, ebay I got over $500 of motul products for $50 , yes , Pu only in ohio from dealership, and sold my rbf600 brake fluid for $175 so I got a lifetime supply, many cases of Motul 2 stoke oil which I love and need for a $125 profit, yes take this stuff, many cases and you can make $125!
Also I realize this Motul 8 gallons I got now, is a syn blend, but I had an in- depth discussion with a Castrol rep at the dealer news mc show about oil and he said that most syn blends for mc oil are 98 or 99 percent syn, so almost a full syn, but the 1 or 2 % of added dino/petrol oil acts as a corrosion inhibitor only, rust or oxidation inhibitor only and that Castrol racing full syn vs castrol syn blend are minor differences, so this guy basically said the syn blends are as good as the full syn racing oils especially if you are just a street rider, bottom line is I like high quality but only if price is cheap, I am not brand specific on anything, high quality/low price , thanks Doug
Jump on this Motul at $4.25 per litre shipped, I got my 8 gallons so am good, 32 litres mobil 1 =$320 at autozone vs 32 litres Motul on ebay at $138 ****I think I will save the $182 .....one hundred eighty two dollars is a set of tires for me****
Edited December 17, 2007 by DougFromIndyHonda Brand, HP4 20-50 synthetic blend with moly. It's been 13 years now, no problems.(91' VFR ) I've moved around, hot and cold climates, no problems. I did try a cheaper brand once, ( purple something brand, and only cause there were no close honda dealers ) two days later I switched back - HUGE difference!
Just read some news about Shell Rotella.
Shell Rotella now meets JASO MA spec since switching to the new CJ4 standard to help improve diesel emissions for ash and sulfur. The old Rotella formulation did not meet JASO MA specs due to its high ash content.
Info can be found here:
http://www.gl1800riders.com/forums/viewtop...13e96d5e67e6976
http://www.shellusserver.com/ubbthreads/ub...amp;Number=3450
I've run all the diesil oils and for the money and function I like the Motorcraft 15w40 best .
Edited January 25, 2008 by spud786Darth BlingJust read some news about Shell Rotella.Shell Rotella now meets JASO MA spec since switching to the new CJ4 standard to help improve diesel emissions for ash and sulfur. The old Rotella formulation did not meet JASO MA specs due to its high ash content.
I'm pretty sure the last 5- 1 gal. containers of Rotella T 5w-40 syn. were CI-4 Plus whatever that is? :unsure:
BaileyrockDarth BlingJust read some news about Shell Rotella.Shell Rotella now meets JASO MA spec since switching to the new CJ4 standard to help improve diesel emissions for ash and sulfur. The old Rotella formulation did not meet JASO MA specs due to its high ash content.
I'm pretty sure the last 5- 1 gal. containers of Rotella T 5w-40 syn. were CI-4 Plus whatever that is? :unsure:
I think CI4-plus is the older standard that SJ4 is replacing.
I don't think the new Rotella T 5w-40 Syn will be out yet for another month or so. But, I think new the 15w-40 dino is already out. :unsure:
www.bobistheoilguy.com <--- for all your oil discussion needs.
that being said, cheapest non-energy-conserving dino oil i can find every 5000-7500 miles
FYI
Most syn blends are on 10-20 % syn.
It has been thoroughly documented on the bobistheoilguy oil forum!
I'm using dino until 6000 then switch to Elf synthetic.
10-50 summer and 10-40 winter.
Just a thought...do race oils require more frequent changes??
I think most race bikes get changed more frequently then street bikes.
Does it have to do with the content of the race oils?
I think 10-30 is now recommended for my CBR1KRR.
Edited January 27, 2008 by infonmI scored enough M1 at wallyworld to keep me going for quite awhile. for some reason they were discontinuing the stuff and had it all on sale. Bought 5 or 6 5 liter jugs for half price and they had something like a dozen qts marked at a buck. Cleaned em out. This is all gold cap 15-50 change 6 or 7 thousand mile intervals and the vfr has 50000+ now with zero problems. Long before the engine fails the rest of the bike will have fallen apart, stress cracks, corrosion etc.
Oil filter question:
I've got a left over OEM Honda filter from my 2004 VFR. Will it work with my 1995? It's a 15410-MCJ-003
And if I *can*, does that also mean that the rest of the filters in this thread will work as well, such as the Purolator Pure One PL14612 ?
I also have an oil filter washer from my 2004. Is that the same one as well?
Edited March 7, 2008 by opusopusOil filter question:I've got a left over OEM Honda filter from my 2004 VFR. Will it work with my 1995? It's a 15410-MCJ-003
And if I *can*, does that also mean that the rest of the filters in this thread will work as well, such as the Purolator Pure One PL14612 ?
I also have an oil filter washer from my 2004. Is that the same one as well?
Yes, check here!
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/FilterXRef.html
I use WalMart SuperTech ST7317,
about $2. Made by Champion.
Recommended filters.
All have superior
filtering.
About 2.5 inches long.
About 3.25 inches long.
BaileyrockopusOil filter question:I've got a left over OEM Honda filter from my 2004 VFR. Will it work with my 1995? It's a 15410-MCJ-003
And if I *can*, does that also mean that the rest of the filters in this thread will work as well, such as the Purolator Pure One PL14612 ?
I also have an oil filter washer from my 2004. Is that the same one as well?
Yes, check here!
I did about an hour of searching last night on oil, filters, brake fluid etc, and ran across that site, but not that particular page. Very helpful. Thanks!
Oh, and I'll be taking back the $14 K&N filter I bought the other day. That'll get me 7 filters from Wal-Mart. hehe
Edited March 7, 2008 by opusSo, what's the big deal about Shell Rotella oils. What I remember about them is my old boss used to put it in his truck fleet diesel engines (semis, 1 tons and big concrete pump trucks) back in the 80's. I would think it's the least comaptible oil to put it in a bike that has a much higher RPM range engine (high speed shear??)??
Beck
95 VFR
Repsol synthetic. Get a good deal on it so I buy it. :ots of it. I am also using a Scotts oil filter, the kind you clean instead of replace.
(Was using Rotella T in my race bike and had two bearings go tits-up. It was a SV650 motor, rear cylinder, connecting rod bearing and journal scorched. Also had to replace a Kawi 636 shifting drum after the use of Rotella T on the race track.)
It's starting to "WIND UP"......... :P
boy you guys are gonna love this one....ive read countless oil and filter threads and out of all of the opinions ive read i went my own way. i wont bash another person for their choices of what they use or how often they do it. it is your bike and your choice! im sure most will disagree with the choices ive made. ive logged over 230,000 miles so i believe my opinion is valid. ive always used the cheapest oil avaliable...the cheaper the better...i never buy motorcycle spec type oil. good ol car oil has worked for the last 15 years and counting. castrol,valvoline,penzoil..ect..it really doesnt matter. ive always used 10w30 as all of the bikes are liquid cooled. filter wise ive used everything from honda to fram to wix...out of 230k miles and 15 years i have never had an oil related problem or issue....motor,clutch,transmission....nada! and yes alot of the oil is labeled energy conserving! it really DOES NOT make a diffrence. i remember when syn was a really big topic when i first started riding,most people said not to run it because you would have clutch problems out the wazoo. funny now 15 years later its posted as the best type of oil to use...lmao! same with filters...stay away from fram or the lesser types....lmao! i know the web sight that will be used to show many filters that were cut open to show the internals.....fact is ive used all of the ones listed and many others that arent. havent had a single issue with any of them regardless of the price paid.my current oil is quaker state and penzoil...10w30...yes its energy conserving..got them for about 1 dollar a quart on a clearance sale and my oil filters from ebay(wix)got them by the case(12)...a little over 5 dollars a piece delivered. thats about 9.50 an oil change compared to 30-50 that some people spend(higher if you take it to a dealer).im not trying to change anyones mind on what to use and what not to use...thats your choice....just want to bust any rumors that get posted oh so to often. thanks for readin this looooong winded post ....safe ridin...
this was a response to another thread here....i stand by it 100%....thanks baileyrock for the info on the cheaper filter...now ill go from 9.50 an oil change to about 6 bucks....ill keep others posted about anything that arises from the usage of cheap oil and filters...doubtful that any will ocurr... :fing02:
It's not that cheap oil/filters will cause the engine to go *boom*. I had an old VW Rabbit that only ever had the cheapest walmart oil and filters....After 200,000 miles it was still running fine without burning any oil. It's that higher end synthetic oils work even better, and produce more power, seen it on more than a few cars that were dynoed. It can also add life, or protect an engine when when the cheap or dino oil film would fail. Of course these are all extreme cases, but for the reduced friction and added peace of mind, I am fine with paying $10qt for my Royal Purple. :warranty:
I use AMSoil 10w-40. It seems to work very well, but here in Tucson, it has been getting pretty hot lately (102F on the way home today.) I am wondering if I should up the viscocity to like a 20W-40
I might have missed it so I'll ask. I bought the bike used with 1,000 miles and I don't know if the first oil change has been performed so needless to say I'm going to change the oil and I was wondering if I can start with synthetic oil or not?
Well... I run the good old DINO Honda oil and I change it and the filter everytime I wear out a set of tires. 17k and on my fifth set of tires... Good thing I have a motorcycle so I can save all that money on gas... :rolleyes:
Kevin
i_needitI might have missed it so I'll ask. I bought the bike used with 1,000 miles and I don't know if the first oil change has been performed so needless to say I'm going to change the oil and I was wondering if I can start with synthetic oil or not?
The first oil change my bike got I put in synthetic.. Made the Vtec transition smoother actually.. I dont think it will harm it..
marid2apterbilti_needitI might have missed it so I'll ask. I bought the bike used with 1,000 miles and I don't know if the first oil change has been performed so needless to say I'm going to change the oil and I was wondering if I can start with synthetic oil or not?The first oil change my bike got I put in synthetic.. Made the Vtec transition smoother actually.. I dont think it will harm it..
:rolleyes: The tolerances within a VFR engine are so exact that you can go straight to synth now. The old advice about sticking with dyno oil until the motor is broken in isn't bad, but it's a lot less necessary now that we have diamond plateau-honed cylinder walls and mirror-polished cam and crank journals straight out of the box. There just isn't a whole lot of rough metal inside the case that needs to be abraded away during break-in on a new Honda.
Just a reminder: break it in the Motoman way. Problem is, you have to apply this method within the first 20 miles!
Mobil 1 4t 10w40 every 3000. Aftermarket oil filter from cross reference list. I change my oil sooner if Im heading out on a long trip to avoid going over 3000 mi.
intrcptrrdr(Was using Rotella T in my race bike and had two bearings go tits-up. It was a SV650 motor, rear cylinder, connecting rod bearing and journal scorched. Also had to replace a Kawi 636 shifting drum after the use of Rotella T on the race track.)
Was this the synth or non-synth?
Surprised not to see redline on there?! I've used it in my bikes for several years and love it. I actually used to put my used redline in the truck after I did an oil change in the bike!
Torco, son! they used to sponsor me with some free cases when I was racing dirt track more competitively. It's excellent stuff.
Is there a specific reason why Honda recommends 10-30 in my 07? Are the US 07's also recommending 10-30?
jasonsmithIs there a specific reason why Honda recommends 10-30 in my 07? Are the US 07's also recommending 10-30?
fuel economy, it will be a 20 weight by 1000 mile though
I switched back to Mobil 1 using there old 15w50 racing syn, it has the checked flags on the front and think it's the only one that states "Racing Approved" on the container. :dry:
The VFR and Track bike are both happily using the 15w-50 and the Diesel is still on the Rotella. :cool:
Mobil one, 4T 15-50 specifically for Triumph motorcycles in my 95 "tigger" with 70K on the clock. Purrrs like a kitten.
HP4 10-40 syn/blend "without" moly for the 03 VFRwith 24K. Honda does offer a full synthetic but not sure if it contains moly which is a no no according to the owners manual. Ah, what do they know?
BaileyrockI switched back to Mobil 1 using there old 15w50 racing syn, it has the checked flags on the front and think it's the only one that states "Racing Approved" on the container. :blush:The VFR and Track bike are both happily using the 15w-50 and the Diesel is still on the Rotella. :biggrin:
It was quiet for a year.............you must be bored. :laugh:
I do love the Rotella for my F-350 Diesels. :blush:
So I am not confused. Some of you folks are using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic with the flags and "Race Proven" written on the bottle 15w50 that you can get at Wally World for about $22 per Gallon? And no where on the gallon jug it says Motorcycle specific or good for Wet clutches?
MuddDawgSo I am not confused. Some of you folks are using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic with the flags and "Race Proven" written on the bottle 15w50 that you can get at Wally World for about $22 per Gallon? And no where on the gallon jug it says Motorcycle specific or good for Wet clutches?
Read up on oil from BR's link from page 1.
BaileyrockI also like the info on oil found here, they also have a great oil filter cross reference listed to and I now use only WalMart's SuperTech ST 7317 filters as they have superior filtering then most at the cheapest price(made by Champion)
Then BLS also made a post on page 1 regarding issues with the wet clutch. All your questions are answered in this very thread. wink.gif
vanion2MuddDawgSo I am not confused. Some of you folks are using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic with the flags and "Race Proven" written on the bottle 15w50 that you can get at Wally World for about $22 per Gallon? And no where on the gallon jug it says Motorcycle specific or good for Wet clutches?Read up on oil from BR's link from page 1.
BaileyrockI also like the info on oil found here, they also have a great oil filter cross reference listed to and I now use only WalMart's SuperTech ST 7317 filters as they have superior filtering then most at the cheapest price(made by Champion)Then BLS also made a post on page 1 regarding issues with the wet clutch. All your questions are answered in this very thread. wink.gif
I have read all the threads above and on to the links as well. I kind of glaze over after a few pages. I just picked up some 7317 filters at Wally-World, and I know BR switched back to M-1. I picked up some non Delvac M-1(probably my mistake) (assuming its automotive) and wanted to verify before poring this into the VFR. Maybe I will just go back and pick up the Rotella. Opinions on Oil are like.........belly buttons, and everyone has one. I just try to see what the majority of folks use, then filter that with the the opinions of the people that I think that they know what their talking about and pick from there.
Edit:
I knew I read it somewhere...
BaileyrockI switched back to Mobil 1 using there old 15w50 racing syn, it has the checked flags on the front and think it's the only one that states "Racing Approved" on the container. :laugh:The VFR and Track bike are both happily using the 15w-50 and the Diesel is still on the Rotella. :angry:
I think I may have answered my own question.
Quote from "All about Oil" by Mark Lawrence
"Mobil-1 automotive oils all contain small amounts of moly - about 100 to 200 ppm. This can cause clutch slippage in some motorcycles. I've only heard of this being a problem in Honda Shadows. "
I don't ride a Shadow, and don't think I ever have. I did ride a Saber once, and that was close enough for me to know it's not my preferred riding style.
I changed my oil and filter (K&N) for the first time and put in 3 US quarts. Then started the engine and let it idle for 2 -3 minutes. The service manual says to turn off the engine and support the motorcycle on a level surface and check the oil level through the inspection window. Now here is my question... Do you check your oil with the centerstand down or with the kickstand down only? When on the centerstand it registers full (top line). When only on kickstand it does not register in the window. Check oil using centerstand or kickstand?
Center stand on a level surface. wink.gif
intrcptrrdrRepsol synthetic. Get a good deal on it so I buy it. :ots of it. I am also using a Scotts oil filter, the kind you clean instead of replace.(Was using Rotella T in my race bike and had two bearings go tits-up. It was a SV650 motor, rear cylinder, connecting rod bearing and journal scorched. Also had to replace a Kawi 636 shifting drum after the use of Rotella T on the race track.)
Best of my memory, SV650's have a tendency to eat bottom ends when leaned on hard. That motor was actually an outgrowth of of 400cc twin so Suzuki themselves had already "upped the ante" on the stress on that bike. If you go to SVrider.com, you'll find that big end rod bearings going out is not uncommon on track bikes. That's why Spears and others offer Carillo rod kits for them.
black06vfrI use AMSoil 10w-40. It seems to work very well, but here in Tucson, it has been getting pretty hot lately (102F on the way home today.) I am wondering if I should up the viscocity to like a 20W-40
If you want to go up in viscosity - go up on the the top end like 10w - 50. The first number is about vis at cold temp, the second is about the hot temp. (There is a specific temp each end supposed to be tested, but escapes me for the moment.)
MD
HispanicSlammerI know the list of brands is far from complete but I added the major brands that seem to be talked about most here, and those you can find most anywhere - at least in the US. Other seems will be a large portion of this poll.discuss, but dont biotch here. Facts mostly please, just gathering data here in the form of a poll
I was curious what does your user name mean???????
Just a added point to oil changing.... I've been warming my bike up(by way of taking a ride)before I do the oil change..... The last two times, I've made sure to get all four valves moving as well. I'm not sure if there is any oil trapped if I don't, but I thought it can't hurt to be sure it's all flowing before the change.... comments welcome.....
I always change my oil after a ride (wait a couple minutes so it's not scalding hot) and I use regular Rotella with whatever filter I can find for a decent price (according to the list of acceptable substitutes). I change it according to the owner's manual recommended intervals. No sense in throwing away money!
I recently upgraded from Honda Stock to 10-40 semi-synthetic by Maxima (Maxum4). Seems fairly prevalent here in Canada and costs a bit less than the rest.
jasonsmithI recently upgraded from Honda Stock to 10-40 semi-synthetic by Maxima (Maxum4). Seems fairly prevalent here in Canada and costs a bit less than the rest.
Hello,
i intend to choose between:Motul 300 V 4T Factory Line 10W-40 and Castrol Power 1 Racing 4T 10W-40.Price doesn't matter(it's a small difference) :rolleyes:
PS:Form what "i've seen" most of the riders in Romania(EUROPE) are using Motul.(there are a part(racers) which are using Catrol-)i have a vfr800 '06
Thank you!
Edited October 29, 2009 by schumyUsed to use nothing but Amsoil but because of the cost I have switch to Mobil 1. Just to note something, I have a bother in law who ride a Harley and tried the Syn. Rotella, absolutely made a world of difference in the bike. Both valve train sound and temp. the motor ran at.
I use Mobil 1 so far.
a. It reviewed well.
b. I put it in.
c. I put on a good filter.
d. I drove it like I was being chased.
e. Nothing blew up.
That was the car.
f. Repeated a-c with my Veefer.
g. Rode it like I was being chased.
h. Nothing blew up.
So I smile and carry on.
I noticed a huge difference when I put Mobil 1 15w-50 in my old 2005 Harley Davidson XL1200C. It was night and day difference. It shifted smoother, ran smoother(I know that that is hard to believe on a Harley). I had the first service done on it at 800 miles and i dunno what the Honda store put in it. I assume that they used Honda GN whatever dnio. Now that the weather has turned to non riding weather I will put Mobil 1 15w-50 in it once the weather turns around. God I love this Bike! 07 RWB FOREVER!!!!!
I'm guessing a few of those who voted synthetic are actually synthetic blend users. I used regular automotive oil one time. It was the only time I noticed a difference in clutch performance. I like Motul synthetic blend cause it's easy to find on sale.
ncpaulMobile One, gold cap, but only because it is was what most every one was using on here when I first got the VFR.
Never put synthetic in the car or truck
Same here, and I have no complaints about the Mobil 1 either. Made shifting smoother, but never have tried any other synthetics.
I am just trying out Castrol power 1 racing, full synthetic, 5w40 mainly because it was cheap at the time $60 / 4 litres.
This oil replaces the Castrol R4 superbike
Seems Ok, gearchange is very slick, engine runs cooler.
I was worried about the "5" aspect of the cold viscosity, but that is at 0 deg C and it is never that cold here.
Previously I used Mobil xtra 4t semi synthetic 10 w 40 with good results, and have used mobil 1 racing 4t in previous VFRs also with good results, but it has become very expensive, about $80 for 4 litres.
A few people here swear by Motul 5100 10w40 semi synthetic, but I think it is too expensive ($70 for 4 litres) for what it is.
The manual recommends a 10 w 30 now, seems a bit light to me.
Not too sure about running the 5 w 40 over our hot summer though.
Regarding Mobil 1, I use the 4T. Is it OK to use the Mobil 1 non-4T? Yes, I'm confused. huh.gif
I used Mobil 1 V4 for the first couple of changes based on the reviews in the 2005 thread. After that I realized I really liked the ELF on the side of the swingarm and if using ELF meant the bike only lasted 160K rather than 180K I could live with it. I like having the jugs around. It's the only tie my garage has to Formula 1.
Knife,
The only thing I can tell ya, if your asking is 4 T worth more, they are not the same base oil, cause the flash points are significantly higher on the 4t , by about 40 degrees.
Hello to all
I'm surprising to not find the british Silkolene in list.
Is not imported in the USA?
I use the Pro 4 Plus 10W-50, have the Jaso MA, the specification of the Japanese Motorcycle Engine Constructors.
ciao, Luigi.
Anyone use Penzoil Platinum in their bike ?
Organic: Greek Olive. Pasta Weight.
Wow, an official oil thread. While we're on the subject of oil (currently running Shell Rotella T 5W-40 synth in the blue bottle), why is it that the official Honda maintenance schedule in the owner's manual recommends changing the stuff every 8000 miles :wheel: ?
I've never gone any longer than 3k intervals in previous bikes I've owned, or in my car for that matter. Just seems wacky. Maybe this should be a separate thread, but I'll just toss it out here for fun. :fing02:
luigiHello to all
I'm surprising to not find the british Silkolene in list.
Is not imported in the USA?
I use the Pro 4 Plus 10W-50, have the Jaso MA, the specification of the Japanese Motorcycle Engine Constructors.
ciao, Luigi.
We have it in Oz too.
It is cheaper than most motorcycle specific brands that are common here, so I thought I would try also.
Have only ran 2500 kms... probably common, but it's very similar to the Motul 5100, in how the engine runs, cools and warms up... but at half the price of the 'tul.
So far no complaints, but have yet to drain.
There has been a sudden markup in MC oils in the past year here.
So Im changing cheaper, but more often, overall happy with the performance.
Think I'll be back for more.
Let's not let this thread die!
I just changed the oil to RedLine Motorcycle 10/40. First thing I noticed was the oil pressure light now shuts off just before the bike starts. With the old oil(mobil1 4t with 3700.miles)the light would flicker a couple of times than go out, but after the engine started( did the same thing with Rotella Syn). 2nd thing I've noticed, is the bike shifts like a hot knife thru butter. Shifting is better than with mobil1 and as good as Rotella(but the Rotella went to crap in less than 2000 miles). Will see how long the RedLine last.
Update! Just got home from a 100 mile ride. I've noticed a couple of more things! the bike is now running 200 rpm higher at idle. I'll need to adjust down to 1300 in the morning. Also, the bikes temp is running at 172~173f*(lower than I've ever seen at crusing speed. Before the RedLine it was running around 177~180f* I'd say that So far this RedLine oil is worth the money(if it holds up for 10k).
Edited January 22, 2010 by VFRBennyVee-Ef-ArluigiHello to all
I'm surprising to not find the british Silkolene in list.
Is not imported in the USA?
I use the Pro 4 Plus 10W-50, have the Jaso MA, the specification of the Japanese Motorcycle Engine Constructors.
ciao, Luigi.
We have it in Oz too.
It is cheaper than most motorcycle specific brands that are common here, so I thought I would try also.
Have only ran 2500 kms... probably common, but it's very similar to the Motul 5100, in how the engine runs, cools and warms up... but at half the price of the 'tul.
So far no complaints, but have yet to drain.
There has been a sudden markup in MC oils in the past year here.
So Im changing cheaper, but more often, overall happy with the performance.
Think I'll be back for more.
Quick update here... drained this morning, it's all black and dark, it wasn't like that when it went in :blink:
Just been through your typical Queensland summer and I see little difference from the previous oil - Motul 5100. Bike did run slightly cooler than I remember, never saw past 108c in the peakhour city outrun test, with 1 year old coolant. No leaks or blowby. Drained clear, no froth, or separated materials. Might have to stock up when it comes on special :ph34r:
dogmanI am just trying out Castrol power 1 racing, full synthetic, 5w40 mainly because it was cheap at the time $60 / 4 litres.
This oil replaces the Castrol R4 superbike
Seems Ok, gearchange is very slick, engine runs cooler.
I was worried about the "5" aspect of the cold viscosity, but that is at 0 deg C and it is never that cold here.
Previously I used Mobil xtra 4t semi synthetic 10 w 40 with good results, and have used mobil 1 racing 4t in previous VFRs also with good results, but it has become very expensive, about $80 for 4 litres.
A few people here swear by Motul 5100 10w40 semi synthetic, but I think it is too expensive ($70 for 4 litres) for what it is.
The manual recommends a 10 w 30 now, seems a bit light to me.
Not too sure about running the 5 w 40 over our hot summer though.
Quick update on this also, I think this oil (5W40) is too light for the Aussie summer, the slick gear change went off after about 1000 Kms so I have gone back to the 10w40 semi synthetic.
It is probably OK for winter use.
I'll be putting my as-yet-unridden new-to-me 93 on the road soonish. I've got a jug of Prestone pre-mix Dex-cool compatible coolant, Dot 4 brake fluid, and Iridium plugs ready to install . . . now I have to choose an oil to go with. I used to use Mobil 1 red cap (Motul 5100 gave me clutch-slip on my 98). My local store carries Shell Rotella synth at $51 (!) for a 4-litre jug, but I am wondering whether this hi-mile bike might prefer dino. MC specific oil around here is limited to smallish bike dealers. So my question, for those using Mobil 1: which Mobil 1 are you using?
dogmandogmanI am just trying out Castrol power 1 racing, full synthetic, 5w40 mainly because it was cheap at the time $60 / 4 litres.
This oil replaces the Castrol R4 superbike
Seems Ok, gearchange is very slick, engine runs cooler.
I was worried about the "5" aspect of the cold viscosity, but that is at 0 deg C and it is never that cold here.
Previously I used Mobil xtra 4t semi synthetic 10 w 40 with good results, and have used mobil 1 racing 4t in previous VFRs also with good results, but it has become very expensive, about $80 for 4 litres.
A few people here swear by Motul 5100 10w40 semi synthetic, but I think it is too expensive ($70 for 4 litres) for what it is.
The manual recommends a 10 w 30 now, seems a bit light to me.
Not too sure about running the 5 w 40 over our hot summer though.
Quick update on this also, I think this oil (5W40) is too light for the Aussie summer, the slick gear change went off after about 1000 Kms so I have gone back to the 10w40 semi synthetic.
It is probably OK for winter use.
That oil is also available in a 10w50 weight . It is super Light weight in 5w40, and not a long life oil but is premum quality base oil, I agree its too light for vfr tranny in that weght.
I agree Honda can stick there 10w30 Ide crap. Vfr will eat a 10w40 into a 30 weight anyway in about 1000 mile.
PaladinI'll be putting my as-yet-unridden new-to-me 93 on the road soonish. I've got a jug of Prestone pre-mix Dex-cool compatible coolant, Dot 4 brake fluid, and Iridium plugs ready to install . . . now I have to choose an oil to go with. I used to use Mobil 1 red cap (Motul 5100 gave me clutch-slip on my 98). My local store carries Shell Rotella synth at $51 (!) for a 4-litre jug, but I am wondering whether this hi-mile bike might prefer dino. MC specific oil around here is limited to smallish bike dealers. So my question, for those using Mobil 1: which Mobil 1 are you using?
Man , that suks you got clutch slip on the Motul, they do use moly in many of their oils..
PaladinI'll be putting my as-yet-unridden new-to-me 93 on the road soonish. I've got a jug of Prestone pre-mix Dex-cool compatible coolant, Dot 4 brake fluid, and Iridium plugs ready to install . . . now I have to choose an oil to go with. I used to use Mobil 1 red cap (Motul 5100 gave me clutch-slip on my 98). My local store carries Shell Rotella synth at $51 (!) for a 4-litre jug, but I am wondering whether this hi-mile bike might prefer dino. MC specific oil around here is limited to smallish bike dealers. So my question, for those using Mobil 1: which Mobil 1 are you using?
This -- http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil1_Racing_4T_10W-40.aspx
- Something else - dunno if I would use Dex-cool in your bike.
md
mello dude
This -- http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil1_Racing_4T_10W-40.aspx
- Something else - dunno if I would use Dex-cool in your bike.
md
Thanks for the link.
As for Dexcool, I am going by a discussion from 5 or 6 years ago when the subject was canvassed pretty thoroughly, and I recall that the long-life Dexcool-compatible coolants were deemed safe in the aluminum engines. If anyone has info to the contrary I would like to know. I used that in my 98 and it was in there for several years to no apparent ill effect.
I'm attaching a doc written by an engineer, Mark Lawrence at Cal Sci (fellow rider too). It has everything you could possibly want to know about motor oil and how/why it works in a motorcycle engine. It is a long paper (16 pgs) but it is easy to read and explains everything. I skipped to the stuff about motorcycles first time, but I found i kept going back to find out more. Eventually, I sat down and read it start to finish... it's worth reading.
In a nut shell... Mark says use Mobil1 15w-50 if you will not be riding in any cold/cool weather. If starting your bike below 40°f, 5°c use Rotella T Synthetic 5w-40. If you can afford it, use Motul 5100 10w-40 or a blend with Motul & Rotella T synthetic or another high quality synthetic.
I use a blend of Rotella T syntheic 5w-40 & M1 15w-50 in my air cooled V twin and my VFR.
Everything you want to know about oil.doc
And no mention yet of Slit Fiddy... Oh, nevermind.
Walmart SuperTech 10W-40 to match the SuperTech filter. Oil & filter change cost less than $10. Love Walmart. I wouldn't shop anywhere else.
Thinking about running Rotella-T, the price isn't much more than the SuperTech -but I just can't seem to put the same oil in my motorcycle that I put in my Diesel Gen1 Camry. In my Gasser Gen3 Camry I put SuperTech 10W40, and have been for the last 309,000 miles.
I use the Rotella Synthetic now that it's got the proper JASO rating...
With that being said, I'm one of the mindset that what you use isn't near as important as changing it at the appropriate interval.
I am not very consistent with the filter I use, I have used NAPA brand, K&N, OEM Honda, Walmart ( Supertech) brand, so admit no alliance to any particualr filter, except I avoid Fram like a plague, in any bike, car, truck, boat, as they always rate as poor in testing.
For oil, I changed it before the bike had 100 kms on it, to Shell Rotella 15W40 Dino oil, and its been the same oil ever since.
I have tried to change it about every 2500 to 3000 kms, but admit on long trips, I have gone well over that.
Rode from BC down to Texas, and then over to Florida, changed it in Florida.
Rode from Florida up into Quebec, and then all the way back to BC, and changed it when I got home.
So a lot of mileage between changes that trip.
Seems to still be fine, as it runs perfectly and has over 148,000 kms on it since I bought it new.
Contributing... (taps the mike)
Last change: Repsol Moto 15-20, after 5,000 miles. Because I got "paid" with it.
Previous: Castrol Tection 15-40 (diesel-spec). Nothing untoward noticed, after 500mi on the new stuff.
And so I added these two plus Amsoil to the data as provided by one Mark Lawrence, and hereby post a graph.
See? we're splitting hairs people... this is why we can't have nice things :biggrin: ... :biggrin:
[image: gallery_18314_4851_52396.jpg]
I'm running REPSOL becuase thats what the shop uses and I just bought the bike, but in my V-Star I ran Repsol 20-50 V-Twin...In my VFR I will most like use Repsol 10-40 Full Syn.
Has anybody used Royal Purple? I found 15w-40 @ my local AutoZone, thought I did give it a try.
Has anyone found dino Rotella to be better than Syn Rotella? I ask because after only 2k miles my bike destroyed the T6 and it shifts like hell now, but I hear about 15W-40 owners going 3-4k no issues.
ToppersHas anyone found dino Rotella to be better than Syn Rotella? I ask because after only 2k miles my bike destroyed the T6 and it shifts like hell now, but I hear about 15W-40 owners going 3-4k no issues.
Keep in mind with my comments, I destroyed my fork oil the black coal and sluging in 6000 mile, where other have changed fluid at 16,000 mile and that oil still look not bad.
Rotella(syn) disetigrates in a bike much like a car oil, its a sub 2000 mile oil in a bike. My testing analysis, showed this break down under 1100 mile. The reason I did the tsting, I didnt like what I was seeing in the oikl dumps.
Rollella 15 w40 is about the worst shifting oil I've ever put in the vfr,
I've been running Honda's HP4 10w40 synthetic blend/withOUT Moly per the owners manual. 36K on the clock and no problems. Yet! :fing02: Now if my new sprocket/chain kit would just get here maybe I could put some miles on the clock!
Changed my vote from Rotella to Mobil 1. I really wanted to believe it would replace an expensive synthetic, but my 5th gen ate it in less than 2,000 miles. And shifting was pretty bad with the Rotella out the gate. Bike runs/shifts/sounds much, much smoother with M1 4T again.
Maybe it's a gear driven cam thing but no more cheap oils for me.
Castrol has been on the tube this week advertizing a full syn. called Edge.... I haven't gone to the store to look over the lable.... Just thought I'd add this FYI....
On a side note, anyone know how legit this Amsoil "Study of Motorcycle Oils" is that they release? Pretty interesting but hard to believe Amsoil spanks every oil in every test that bad.
ToppersOn a side note, anyone know how legit this Amsoil "Study of Motorcycle Oils" is that they release? Pretty interesting but hard to believe Amsoil spanks every oil in every test that bad.
Since it was Amsoil that wrote the report, who knows how much is right on......... On the other hand I seen unbias studies that puts Amsoil in the top area of 3 or 4 others.... so at least it's one of the best.... The problem is can you find one close for less money, hence all the oil threads....
ToppersChanged my vote from Rotella to Mobil 1. I really wanted to believe it would replace an expensive synthetic, but my 5th gen ate it in less than 2,000 miles. And shifting was pretty bad with the Rotella out the gate. Bike runs/shifts/sounds much, much smoother with M1 4T again.
Maybe it's a gear driven cam thing but no more cheap oils for me.
Which Rotella? I prefer the Rotella T6 to the Auto Mobil 1 I was running.
swimmerToppersChanged my vote from Rotella to Mobil 1. I really wanted to believe it would replace an expensive synthetic, but my 5th gen ate it in less than 2,000 miles. And shifting was pretty bad with the Rotella out the gate. Bike runs/shifts/sounds much, much smoother with M1 4T again.
Maybe it's a gear driven cam thing but no more cheap oils for me.
Which Rotella? I prefer the Rotella T6 to the Auto Mobil 1 I was running.
M1 4T is Mobils motorcycle specific oil. Been running it for years.
swimmerToppersChanged my vote from Rotella to Mobil 1. I really wanted to believe it would replace an expensive synthetic, but my 5th gen ate it in less than 2,000 miles. And shifting was pretty bad with the Rotella out the gate. Bike runs/shifts/sounds much, much smoother with M1 4T again.
Maybe it's a gear driven cam thing but no more cheap oils for me.
Which Rotella? I prefer the Rotella T6 to the Auto Mobil 1 I was running.
I was referring to the T6. Shortly afterwards I tried the Dino version 15w-40 and not so great either.
ToppersChanged my vote from Rotella to Mobil 1. I really wanted to believe it would replace an expensive synthetic, but my 5th gen ate it in less than 2,000 miles. And shifting was pretty bad with the Rotella out the gate. Bike runs/shifts/sounds much, much smoother with M1 4T again.
Maybe it's a gear driven cam thing but no more cheap oils for me.
Thats because you have female qualities( thats not a negative) just means your senses arent clouded like most males.
I agree the rotella 15w40 is about the worst shifting , for an oil that get so much glamore talk
Heh, thanks for the compliment I guess. :laughing6-hehe: Like I said I wanted to believe it, but it felt terrible in my bike. (rotella syn and dino)
Ok so, these short OIC's are getting ridiculous. I'm running Mobil 1 4T for 8k miles per the manual and sending a sample to blackstone. We'll see how a top oil does by the recommended OIC. Will post the results in this thread.
Edited July 13, 2010 by ToppersToppersHeh, thanks for the compliment I guess. :laughing6-hehe: Like I said I wanted to believe it, but it felt terrible in my bike. (rotella syn and dino)
Ok so, these short OIC's are getting ridiculous. I'm running Mobil 1 4T for 8k miles per the manual and sending a sample to blackstone. We'll see how a top oil does by the recommended OIC. Will post the results in this thread.
I bet the viscosity will be down to about 10wt. Let us know how it tests!
Ran Rotella Triple protection 15w-40 in my vfr and ER-6N with no problems this summer. Now that the cold is hitting, I'm back to using Honda syn w/ moly 10w-40. Only get the moly stuff here. I've put 20k miles with it and no problems.
Edited November 3, 2010 by rangerscott69Running Rotella T6 Full Synthetic 5w-40 without any issues or adverse symptoms. Great oil, especially for the price.
My next oil is going to be 0W-30 synthetic because I want my prize
engine to be properly lubricated...
My synthetic 10W-40 in the bike is going to the salvage yard tomorrow. The engine ran good all the way up to the time I totaled the bike. What more could one ask for..... :laughing6-hehe:
ToppersHeh, thanks for the compliment I guess. :cool: Like I said I wanted to believe it, but it felt terrible in my bike. (rotella syn and dino)
Ok so, these short OIC's are getting ridiculous. I'm running Mobil 1 4T for 8k miles per the manual and sending a sample to blackstone. We'll see how a top oil does by the recommended OIC. Will post the results in this thread.
Hi, did you get a chance to post the analysis? Thanks!
VFRSuperfreakToppersHeh, thanks for the compliment I guess. :cool: Like I said I wanted to believe it, but it felt terrible in my bike. (rotella syn and dino)
Ok so, these short OIC's are getting ridiculous. I'm running Mobil 1 4T for 8k miles per the manual and sending a sample to blackstone. We'll see how a top oil does by the recommended OIC. Will post the results in this thread.
Hi, did you get a chance to post the analysis? Thanks!
Funny you should ask. I never made it to 8k but did draw a sample and put in the Blackstone labs tube this morning, just have to send it in. The mileage on the oil is only 3,200. I'l get it analyzed if you or anyone else still wants to see it, just reply to this thread. I had second thoughts on the long OCI thing, these gear driven cams are not easy on oil. I can feel it changed at just 3k, even being a strong performing oil. No reason to push it and risk things.
THe only oil i ran longer than normal was 20w50 vtwin mobil 1, that was right at 4,000 mile , i could have gone longer, maybe another 1000 mile. The diesil oils, 15w40 wil go 2500/3000 very easily.
I dont recommend using 8,000 mile intervals unless your following the owners manual operatiing procedures. That means being in 6th gear by 35 mph
8,000 mike intervals should not be used for anything ridden track like.
Edited November 12, 2010 by spud786Ok given the economic climate among other things I instead put the money towards just changing the oil before winter, sans filter. For what it's worth the oil (M14T) still felt serviceable at 3,200 miles.
I still have the sample ready to ship if anyone wants to pick up the tab and find out how M14T does at 3,200 miles in a gear driven cam bike. :biggrin:
I just read some interesting brand cycle oil comparisons.
Sorry, to bring it up again and even more so if this info.
Is already available:http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
BaileyRockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch to
Shell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I also like the info on oil found here, they also have a great oil filter cross reference listed to and I now use only WalMart's SuperTech ST 7317 filters as they have superior filtering then most at the cheapest price(made by Champion)
Dittoes on the Rotella T and Wally World filter, BR. Good stuff for reasonable money!
spud786ToppersMaybe it's a gear driven cam thing but no more cheap oils for me.
I agree the rotella 15w40 is about the worst shifting , for an oil that get so much glamore talk
The good Rotella T that gets the sweet talk is the full synthetic 5w-40, not the 15w-40.
dendronBaileyRockI'm a long time Mobil 1 advocate and it has always tested at or new the top of every category, but I recently made the switch to
Shell Rotella T Synthetic based on it's test results(always right up there with MB 1) and lower cost the MB 1 also one of the few "C" rated oils out there which seem to be good for our bikes.
My MB Diesel, track bike and VFR all have Rotella T Synthetic in them! :thumbsup:
I also like the info on oil found here, they also have a great oil filter cross reference listed to and I now use only WalMart's SuperTech ST 7317 filters as they have superior filtering then most at the cheapest price(made by Champion)
Dittoes on the Rotella T and Wally World filter, BR. Good stuff for reasonable money!
:fing02: Actually I switched back to Mobil 1 15w-50 in the track bike and VFR, the Benz is still on the Rotella T 5w-40. :biggrin:
BaileyRock:fing02: Actually I switched back to Mobil 1 15w-50 in the track bike and VFR, the Benz is still on the Rotella T 5w-40. :biggrin:
Mercy Bailey... do you know what the viscosity of Mobil 1 15 50 is at 104ºF start up and 212ºF operating temps???
BusyLittleShopBaileyRock:fing02: Actually I switched back to Mobil 1 15w-50 in the track bike and VFR, the Benz is still on the Rotella T 5w-40. :biggrin:
Mercy Bailey... do you know what the viscosity of Mobil 1 15 50 is at 104ºF start up and 212ºF operating temps???
No Larry, I don't! :491:
BaileyRockNo Larry, I don't! :491:
Quote Mobil 1 15 50 synthetic oil...
At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 125
At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 17.4
Quote Mobil 1 10W 30 synthetic oil...
At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 62
At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 10
As you can see the viscosity of 125 is too thick to lubricate your
engine properly during warm up and the viscosity of 17.4 builds up too
much pressure during operating temps... a better choice would be the
10W 30 because now during start up the viscosity is 62 still too thick
to lubricate your engine properly but lesser than the viscosity of
125... but heres the important part at operating temps you have the
desired viscosity of 10... a viscosity of 10 flows more than the
viscosity of 17.4 so you're more at the target of the engineers 10psi
per 1,000 rpm... if we agree that flow lubricates your engine and not
pressure than the 10 30 makes more sense... I understand if you can't
bring yourself to trust 10 30... but...
Oils are chosen by the manufacturer to give the right thickness at the
normal operating temperature of the engine at the oil temperature of
100C or 212 F the boiling point of water...
I think we agree that most motorcycle designers thermostat their water
cooled engines to run at 212ºF water temperature with an oil thickness
of the viscosity of 10. This is the real world viscosity of the oil...
not the same weight listed in the manual or advertised on the oil
can... we should learn the difference between those numbers as they
are confusing... I want to talk about oil thickness at start up and
operating temps as listed by the oil company themselves and not oil
can labeling...
I know this is a very difficult topic to comprehend... Everybody
including good mechanic friends think they understand engine oils...
but most of what I hear about viscosity is the opposite of the
truth... I hear all the time that a 0 30 has a viscosity of 0 at room
temp and a viscosity of 30 at operating temp but this is the opposite
of the truth... fact is a 0 30 weight oil has a viscosity of 10 at
operating temp (212ºF) and a viscosity of 56 at room temp... A
viscosity of 56 is too thick to lubricate our engines properly... it
builds pressure at the expense of flow...
The confusion occurs because people think in terms of the oil thinning
when it gets hot... They think this thinning with heat is the problem
with motor oil... It would be more correct to think that oil thickens
when it cools to room temperature and I believe THIS is the problem.
If we believe that 90 percent of engine wear occurs at startup before
warm up and if we are interested in engine longevity I think we should
concentrate our attention at reducing engine wear at startup...
In a perfect world we would have an oil viscosity of 10 at start up and a
oil viscosity of 10 at operating temps but so far no oil meets that
requirement...
Thanks Larry, I always enjoy learning something new! :fing02:
Good stuff! :beer:
BR
BusyLittleShopAs you can see the viscosity of 125 is too thick to lubricate your
engine properly during warm up and the viscosity of 17.4 builds up too
much pressure during operating temps... a better choice would be the
10W 30 because now during start up the viscosity is 62 still too thick
to lubricate your engine properly but lesser than the viscosity of
125... but heres the important part at operating temps you have the
desired viscosity of 10... a viscosity of 10 flows more than the
viscosity of 17.4 so you're more at the target of the engineers 10psi
per 1,000 rpm... if we agree that flow lubricates your engine and not
pressure than the 10 30 makes more sense... I understand if you can't
bring yourself to trust 10 30... but...
/edit
Very nice and spot on Sir!. I'm chiming in here to say that all these points simply aren't stressed enough, and one wonders of the counter-intuitive numbering of viscosity indexes isn't a plot to keep it all fogged up and maintain the unwashed following mechanic's and advert's instructions. Instead of realizing the basic dynamics of any fluid at diff. temps.
Engines and performance being a male phallic science and all, dudes continue to flock to the "higher the number the better".
All additives accounted for and all refineries having equal access to recent science, I propose we should coin a new acronym in the likes of ATGATT; JCTDO. (just change the damned oil). -And ride.
Cheers.
Here's another tid bit
I ran pure Pao 5w40 with 2000 miles oil changes on another bike, I noticed cam lobe wear at 25,000 miles, they didnt look as sharp. The key indicator though was a little scatch in one of my lobe peaks that had completely disappeared. Only way for that to happen is wearing down flush.
IMO, 30 weight which is basically what a 5w40 is, or after 500 to 1000 miles. Its not strong enough film base to prevent lobe wear. IN essence I believe the 10w40 is a better weight overall, or even a 15w40 in a pao type oil. Even these oils can drop a grade by 2000 miles. A little shear, alittle fuel dilution I can see a 10w30 in the 20's with not too much effort.
Just too add, I could only hit 98 mph with that 5w40, with 20w50 amsoil or motul 15w50 I could hit 102mph full throttle pegged. A gain up 4 mph additional top end .
There was more glide with the heavy weight, seems to me
Edited January 8, 2011 by spud786spud786The key indicator though was a little scatch in one of my lobe peaks that had completely disappeared.
Unless you got calibrated eye balls good for thousands of an inch or not... the only way to record lobe wear is with a micrometer...
Golden Spectro 10w-40 and Honda Filters, hard to argue with a 90k miles '86 VFR700f that still looks new on the inside. Changed the clutch at 82k miles, went back with all Honda parts.
Hi guys
After a bit of search on the Interenet I thought I should ask you fellow VFR- riders.
Any reviews on Royal Purple oil's from members of VFRD.com - I only found one post about it in your forum - anyone tried it for a longer period. I have a chance to try it on my Viffer now, but would like to know if you have anything to say about the quality/ experience of the product before I says thanks to the offer?
I might be a cheap dog, but I prefer at least to hit the 200.000 mark on the odometer and not ending up replacing rod end bearings somewhere in the bush of Brazil due to bad oil ;-)
Royal Purple oil: Royal Purple
Should anyone come down to Santiago on vacation/ business trip etc. let me know!
All the best from Santiago de Chile.
mhoey
With all intake valves to the tight side after a valve clearance check - cams are off!
BusyLittleShopspud786The key indicator though was a little scatch in one of my lobe peaks that had completely disappeared.
Unless you got calibrated eye balls good for thousands of an inch or not... the only way to record lobe wear is with a micrometer...
[image: 0996b43f80201700.jpg]
The pit dissapearance was the first clue, at 25,000 mile, by 40,000 mile the cam profiles had obviously changed, much rounder. I did not mic , as I had no intention of replacing or needed to know exactly how much wear was there.
This bike sustained alot of 8000, to 10,000 rpm riding for extended periods of time, mainly with 5w40 Full mc synthetic. A heavier oil film probably would have cut that Lobe wear alot. I was running 2000 mile oil changes.
After a bit of research and looking into the links provided, Ive decided on:
OEM oil filter- Sounds like its a premium filter, even though a premium price. I also heard the bypass valve opens at 7psi to help lube during cold starts, compared to some others (like Mobil 1) that open at 25psi. Doesnt mean a lot to me but seems like a big difference.
Motul 300V 10w40 oil- Sounds like its the best you can buy, again at a premium (premium) price. Read something about 10w40 not being recommender for motorcycles with a wet clutch but in the Honda manual 10w40 is recommended for my climate.
WestnAfter a bit of research and looking into the links provided, Ive decided on:
OEM oil filter- Sounds like its a premium filter, even though a premium price. I also heard the bypass valve opens at 7psi to help lube during cold starts, compared to some others (like Mobil 1) that open at 25psi. Doesnt mean a lot to me but seems like a big difference.
Motul 300V 10w40 oil- Sounds like its the best you can buy, again at a premium (premium) price. Read something about 10w40 not being recommender for motorcycles with a wet clutch but in the Honda manual 10w40 is recommended for my climate.
+1 and sometimes you can find 3 filter pack on FleaBay and AMAZON for around $13.00 !!!!!!!!!!
spud786A heavier oil film probably would have cut that Lobe wear alot. I was running 2000 mile oil changes.
Negative... it's not the flim but the additives that protect lodes... until you mic the cams you're just guessing about wear...
Back in May I went on a 6 day trip and filled the vfr up with Rotella T6 for the first time without even putting test miles on the engine with it. Went through 5 states with varying temps and lots of gear shifting. Didn't use a drop of it. I was able to snatch up 8 jugs of it @ $14.99 a pop. That's a lot better than paying $26 retail. I plan on sending off the old oil for testing.
BusyLittleShopspud786A heavier oil film probably would have cut that Lobe wear alot. I was running 2000 mile oil changes.
Negative... it's not the flim but the additives that protect lodes... until you mic the cams you're just guessing about wear...
Guessing about the amount of wear I agree , there was wear, I just dont know how much .
When steep squared edge cam lobes, become very rounded to tell by the eyeball, its pretty easy to notice there is wear.
I ran high end group 4 synthetic in that bike for the 40,000 mile I had it , inoted at 27 ,000 mile there were signs of lobe wear, by 40,000 mile it was obvious in the rounding.
Edited June 16, 2011 by spud786rangerscott69Back in May I went on a 6 day trip and filled the vfr up with Rotella T6 for the first time without even putting test miles on the engine with it. Went through 5 states with varying temps and lots of gear shifting. Didn't use a drop of it. I was able to snatch up 8 jugs of it @ $14.99 a pop. That's a lot better than paying $26 retail. I plan on sending off the old oil for testing.
:lurk:
vfrjim2002rangerscott69Back in May I went on a 6 day trip and filled the vfr up with Rotella T6 for the first time without even putting test miles on the engine with it. Went through 5 states with varying temps and lots of gear shifting. Didn't use a drop of it. I was able to snatch up 8 jugs of it @ $14.99 a pop. That's a lot better than paying $26 retail. I plan on sending off the old oil for testing.
:lurk:
When the vfr was new , after the first 300 mile dump, I ran 5w40 rotella, the oil at 1100 mile intervals till about 7,000 miles total.
There are better oils to run and a hole lot cheaper , I also had the rotella tested at 1100 miles, degraded about like a 10w40 car oil in the vfr.
Well... from reading what I could before my eyes started to bleed., it seems that it doesn't really matter what I put in my (new to me) 05. I thought that this would point me in the right direction but it seems like I could throw a dart at a wall with brands and viscocities on it and be pretty safe
do let us know what you ended up with :-)
rangerscott69Back in May I went on a 6 day trip and filled the vfr up with Rotella T6 for the first time without even putting test miles on the engine with it. Went through 5 states with varying temps and lots of gear shifting. Didn't use a drop of it. I was able to snatch up 8 jugs of it @ $14.99 a pop. That's a lot better than paying $26 retail. I plan on sending off the old oil for testing.
Did you ever send oil for testing? I've been running Rotella T6 Synthetic since I bought my 04 last year with 24k miles. I now have 41k miles and still loving the Rotella T6...smooth shifts etc. I realize there are probably better oils to use, but I will probably trade this bike before wear becomes an issue for me. Also, where did you get that $14.99 price for 8 qts??? I'm buying by the gallon for about $24 I think.
I broke my New vfr in on Rotella 5w40 syn. after about 7 oil changes, and about 8,000 miles total, I sent it to be tested. The weight had degrade to a 30 weight in 1100 miles. The wear metals were right around idea time to change, but I like atleast 2500 mile on the changes, so I beefed up the oil.
End results, Rotella 5w40 in a Motorcycle, is about like a 10w40 car oil
The next testing sent in, was Amsoil 15w40, with 2000 mile on the oil.
Identical wear numbers on the oil as Rotella, but it also had double the milege
Edited October 12, 2011 by spud786Castrol "R" 30 weight.........Oh what a smell!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, drain IMMEDIATELY after use........
Lubro-Moly, German syn oil . The only high mileage oil approved for extended service in Mercedes,BMW,Audi and Porcha(sic).
Ive run mine on vauxhall semi synth for 13yrs (changed every 3-4 k)
Its now at 90,000 miles (750fv)
Had the valves done a few weeks back and the mechanic said
He couldnt see any wear at all on the top end
Could have been 2000 miles if he didnt know better.
Looked up "Vauxhall" since it seemed like some exotic German brand, but I guess it's really just GM in Euro-speak. Regardless, 90k miles with a good mechanical report is good anecdotal evidence for synthetics...
Vauxhall is the UK names for cars that are called Opel in Gernany. Both part of GM (like Holden in Oz)
I heard somewhere they were going to bring back the Opel in the U.S. We've also seen a resurgence of Fiat being sold through Chrysler dealerships...
Sorry for getting off topic...
I'm continuing to use Rotella T6 full synth, changing the filter everytime with a WalMart Supertech filter that have been shown to be high quality like the Purolator Pure One, and Mobil 1 filters.
spud786End results, Rotella 5w40 in a Motorcycle, is about like a 10w40 car oil
Negative... for a 40wt its flows less during critical start up than Shell's own Helix 40wt...
Shell Helix 40wt is the same thickness as Rotella 40wt but Helix is just refined
higher to flow more... which is a premium quality in your choice of 40wt
oils... again flow is what lubricates our engines not pressure... if you wish
to stay with Rotella family look to Shells Rotella 10W 30 as a better choice...
Quote Shell Rotella T 5W40 synthetic oil...
At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 95
At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 15
Quote Shell Helix 5W 40 synthetic oil...
At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 76
At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 13.8
Quote Shell Rotella T 10W30 synthetic oil...
At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 83
At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 12.1
BLS, does Shell sell Helix in the US as a motorcycle oil? Here Helix is for cars & Advance is for bikes.
One) At the risk of repetition, I was taught that viscosity is the resistance to flow. Higher numbers: more resistance to flow. That made it easier for me to understand the basics.
Two) What is the logic against using OEM oil filters and Honda motorcycle oil? Seems like a no-brainer.
Three) I have a new consideration afterpurchasing Lobsters Y2K. Full sync has been used; he suggested that that means I should continue to use same. Any opinions on that?
MaxSwellOne) At the risk of repetition, I was taught that viscosity is the resistance to flow. Higher numbers: more resistance to flow. That made it easier for me to understand the basics.
Two) What is the logic against using OEM oil filters and Honda motorcycle oil? Seems like a no-brainer.
Three) I have a new consideration afterpurchasing Lobsters Y2K. Full sync has been used; he suggested that that means I should continue to use same. Any opinions on that?
How many miles do you put on your main ride per year? If I ride 9-10k miles per year and do three oil/filter changes I can either spend about $165 for the Honda products or about $78 for the Rotella/Supertech filter combo. I know it's not a ton of money, but it all ads up (tires, farkles, etc), and I don't think for my level of sophistication that it's going to make a discernible difference in the grand scheme of things. My life is full of lots of stuff besides by bike and everything vies for the almighty buck. So for me, it is something I devote some brain time to...
MaxSwellOne) At the risk of repetition, I was taught that viscosity is the resistance to flow. Higher numbers: more resistance to flow. That made it easier for me to understand the basics.
Two) What is the logic against using OEM oil filters and Honda motorcycle oil? Seems like a no-brainer.
Three) I have a new consideration afterpurchasing Lobsters Y2K. Full sync has been used; he suggested that that means I should continue to use same. Any opinions on that?
On the subject of using Honda branded oil & filters! It's a Waste of money for an inferior product!
If you read any oil or filter test you will find the Honda branded products fair no better than Avg and usually towards the lower end vs current quality oils like Mobil 1, Rotella & Amzoil on the Syn end and still many dino oils perform better than Honda brand oil!
Many oil filters use superior filtration medium than Honda branded filters and even WalMarts line of filters is rated a much higher quality than Honda filters.
But hey, many people pay the much higher prices for the inferior but Honda branded product! :ph34r:
BTW people who change syn oil every 3k miles are just plain crazy if you ask me. Hell HONDA suggests you change their Crappy dino oil every 8k miles and unless every mile is spent on the race track why would someone think that superior quality Syn oil won't last as long as Honda recommended dino oil! :ohmy: Other than the Oil Industries excellent ad campaign telling us to change out oil every 3k! :tongue:
The ONLY way to know if your oil is good or bad is to have it analyzed by a lab. Mobil 1 or other quality syn might be good for 8, 10, 12 , 15k miles but you'll never know w/o a lab test. :tour:
V4 RossoBLS, does Shell sell Helix in the US as a motorcycle oil? Here Helix is for cars & Advance is for bikes.
I don't know... I mentioned Helix because it was the first 5W40 Shell oil I could find to compare with Shell's 5W40 Rotella...
I see the comment regarding different oils providing "smooth" or "smoother shifting". I noticed the same thing only once, long ago using Motul on a 91 VX800 but have not seen the phenomena since. Does anyone have know why different oils could cause smoother shifting? I does not seem viscosity related but it seems to be brand specific.
2thdr, baileyrock: Thanks for the enlightenment. I was naive about Honda quality. And I could always find a use for the money saved.
If our paths cross (Tmac, SumSum) I'd be happy to buy you both a beer (coffee/whiskey/milk whatever) with the $ I'll save next year. I'm not famous for my memory so if I forget (not likely) feel free to remind me.
joneillI see the comment regarding different oils providing "smooth" or "smoother shifting". I noticed the same thing only once, long ago using Motul on a 91 VX800 but have not seen the phenomena since. Does anyone have know why different oils could cause smoother shifting? I does not seem viscosity related but it seems to be brand specific.
There can be a 5% difference in shift feel amongst oils, the less Grip an oil has on the clutch, the Slicker the tranny will shift.
MaxSwell2thdr, baileyrock: Thanks for the enlightenment. I was naive about Honda quality. And I could always find a use for the money saved.
If our paths cross (Tmac, SumSum) I'd be happy to buy you both a beer (coffee/whiskey/milk whatever) with the $ I'll save next year. I'm not famous for my memory so if I forget (not likely) feel free to remind me.
Thanks, but we VFRD and it's members exist to help each other out. :smile:
joneillI see the comment regarding different oils providing "smooth" or "smoother shifting". I noticed the same thing only once, long ago using Motul on a 91 VX800 but have not seen the phenomena since. Does anyone have know why different oils could cause smoother shifting? I does not seem viscosity related but it seems to be brand specific.
After 25 years dealing with customers I think its not a question of
oil so much as a question of technique and clutch...
RC30 and RC45 owners will ask for the same slick shifting oil that
made their friend's RC30 and RC45 shift so smoothly after it left the
Busy Little Shop... I hate to break it to them but it wasn't the oil
that made the difference it was rider technique and the elimination of
clutch drag... so before I will dump one slick shifting oil for the
next slick shifting oil I work with them on their technique and their
clutch... then and only then will they understand that they were
fooled into thinking it was the oil when in fact it was technique and
clutch...
I think we are after the same thing... smooth shift without upsetting
the suspension... the secret is moving the foot quicker than clutch or
throttle... go easy with the clutch and throttle but move your foot
quicker... but worry there is no such thing as too quick... its the
first step of seemless shifting in MotoGp...
Here are the steps how to check your clutch for drag... your gears
can't shift smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...
1 Place your bike on the center stand...
2 Start engine and establish a steady idle...
3 Squeeze in the clutch and hold... shift into first gear...
4 Now look at the rear wheel... if it's spinning step on the rear brake...
does this action drag down the engine rpms???
If you bike is equipped with an cable then adjust the clutch lever
knob clock wise (out) 1/4 turn and check again check for clutch
drag... if you bike is equipped with hydraulics bleed system and check
for bubbles...
Ultimately you want the rear wheel to stop spinning when the engine is
idling and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...
Thank you BLS for this great tip...
2thdrThank you BLS for this great tip...
You're welcome... thanks to Miguel for a great site...
spud786There can be a 5% difference in shift feel amongst oils, the less Grip an oil has on the clutch, the Slicker the tranny will shift.
How did you determine that one oil has a 5% shift feel versus other oils???
BusyLittleShopjoneillI see the comment regarding different oils providing "smooth" or "smoother shifting". I noticed the same thing only once, long ago using Motul on a 91 VX800 but have not seen the phenomena since. Does anyone have know why different oils could cause smoother shifting? I does not seem viscosity related but it seems to be brand specific.
After 25 years dealing with customers I think its not a question of
oil so much as a question of technique and clutch...
RC30 and RC45 owners will ask for the same slick shifting oil that
made their friend's RC30 and RC45 shift so smoothly after it left the
Busy Little Shop... I hate to break it to them but it wasn't the oil
that made the difference it was rider technique and the elimination of
clutch drag... so before I will dump one slick shifting oil for the
next slick shifting oil I work with them on their technique and their
clutch... then and only then will they understand that they were
fooled into thinking it was the oil when in fact it was technique and
clutch...
I think we are after the same thing... smooth shift without upsetting
the suspension... the secret is moving the foot quicker than clutch or
throttle... go easy with the clutch and throttle but move your foot
quicker... but worry there is no such thing as too quick... its the
first step of seemless shifting in MotoGp...
Here are the steps how to check your clutch for drag... your gears
can't shift smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...
1 Place your bike on the center stand...
2 Start engine and establish a steady idle...
3 Squeeze in the clutch and hold... shift into first gear...
4 Now look at the rear wheel... if it's spinning step on the rear brake...
does this action drag down the engine rpms???
If you bike is equipped with an cable then adjust the clutch lever
knob clock wise (out) 1/4 turn and check again check for clutch
drag... if you bike is equipped with hydraulics bleed system and check
for bubbles...
Ultimately you want the rear wheel to stop spinning when the engine is
idling and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...
Nice debunker there! My veefalo does that, I have yet to change the clutch fluid - bled the brakes last summer but did not bleed the clutch fluid. I will try this technique out, the veefalo shifts very nicely though really. I have been using the rotella stuff myself 10w 30 - rated JA but for cars, its almost twice the price for the MA stuff and well I am with 2thdr on the cost issues - I change it twice as often as the manual recommends and I have a scott resuable filter that I really like - graded for same size particles as the paper filters and better flow. I have had it for 5 years now and it cleans up every time, I run water though it in the opposite direction to force out stuck particles and clean with degreaser on the stainless filter, wipe off the smuged up iron/steel paste on the magnet. I change the oil more often then most, and before every big cross country trip.
HispanicSlammerNice debunker there! My veefalo does that, I have yet to change the clutch fluid - bled the brakes last summer but did not bleed the clutch fluid. I will try this technique out, the veefalo shifts very nicely though really. I have been using the rotella stuff myself 10w 30 - rated JA but for cars, its almost twice the price for the MA stuff and well I am with 2thdr on the cost issues - I change it twice as often as the manual recommends and I have a scott resuable filter that I really like - graded for same size particles as the paper filters and better flow. I have had it for 5 years now and it cleans up every time, I run water though it in the opposite direction to force out stuck particles and clean with degreaser on the stainless filter, wipe off the smuged up iron/steel paste on the magnet. I change the oil more often then most, and before every big cross country trip.
Thanks Miguel
Whats interesting is that according to actual viscosity numbers
published by the oil companies all 30wt oils have about the same
viscosity at 212F operating temps... whether its a 0 30 or a 5 30 or
10 30 or even a straight weight 30 they all flow close to a viscosity
of 10... but during start when the most wear occurs because we are
spinning the crank on dry bearings the viscosity of 30 weight oils
ranges from 56 (good) to 97 (poor)... it no secret that an 0 30 with a
viscosity of 56 allows oil to flow to the critical dry bearings
quicker than a straight weight 30 with a viscosity of 97... a 0 30 and
a straight 30 are the same thickness at operating temps... it just 0
30 is refined higher to flow more during critical start... the proof
in the numbers... the ability of 0 30 to flow quicker at start up
before warm up is why I switched from a 10 30 to a 0 30 in Mr.RC45...
So in the interest of longevity I use 0 30 EC oil and I warm the oil
up to 212F before selecting first gear...
Every oil company list viscosity of their oil at 2 temps 104ºF (40ºC)
start temp and 212ºF (100ºC) operating temp... the lowest viscosity at
start up reaches the critical bearings the quickest...
Mobil 1 0 30 synthetic oil...
At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 56.7
At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 10.3
Shell Rotella T 10W30 synthetic oil...
At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 83
At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 12.1
Viscosity of straight weight 30
At 40ºC / 104ºF viscosity = 97
At 100ºC / 212ºF viscosity = 11.7
You can see what the problem with oil is... its too thick at start up
temp and just right at operating temps... the lesson that should be
learned is to idle the engine up to operating temp of 100ºC / 212ºF
before selecting first gear if you wish to properly lubricate your
engine...
Larry the only Mobil 1, 0W-30 I'm finding is something called "Advanced Fuel Economy". I've included a link. Is this what you are using?
http://www.mobiloil....il_1_0W-30.aspx
It shows similar viscosity numbers to what you quoted,
@ 40 degrees C: 63
@ 110 degrees C: 11
But their 0W-40 product has higher viscosity @ 40 degrees C: 75
Motorcycle specific Racing 4T specs: not any better than Rotella really
@40 degrees C: 82
@110 degrees C: 13
And what about "Viscosity Index"? how does that figure in?
Still somewhat confused with my 6th gen since Mother Honda is recommending 10W-40, it seems I should be using the 0W-40 employing your logic.
LobsterThe issue is the wet clutch. Friction reducers and a device that needs friction can be a bad combination!I'm surprised about all the responses of folks using synthetic. I thought the manual said not to use oil with certain kind of friction additives or something, and every synthetic I've seen has them in the oil?
To HispanicSlammer: Just keep in mind when going to adjust the clutch because your wheel is rolling. Its 100% normal for your wheel to roll when off the ground and the motor is running. Every motorcycle in the world does it( ok, at least 8 out of 10), its only a problem if its spinning faster than normal, and when you brake it or stop it from moving it affects engine rpm at all. Otherwise I wouldn't be concerned about it.
Edited December 6, 2011 by NakedViffer2thdrLarry the only Mobil 1, 0W-30 I'm finding is something called "Advanced Fuel Economy". I've included a link. Is this what you are using?
http://www.mobiloil....il_1_0W-30.aspx
It shows similar viscosity numbers to what you quoted,
@ 40 degrees C: 63
@ 110 degrees C: 11
But their 0W-40 product has higher viscosity @ 40 degrees C: 75
Motorcycle specific Racing 4T specs: not any better than Rotella really
@40 degrees C: 82
@110 degrees C: 13
And what about "Viscosity Index"? how does that figure in?
Still somewhat confused with my 6th gen since Mother Honda is recommending 10W-40, it seems I should be using the 0W-40 employing your logic.
Yes... but "Advanced Fuel Economy" is oil can marketing... its like
gas pump marketing... you filter out what is important for your
bike... namely that is its the freest flowing 30wt at start up... not
to mention and that a freer flowing oil equals free HP because it
produces less drag in your engine...
Typically, synthetic oils sport a higher viscosity index. This is
another reason why they are better suited for the wide range of
temperatures and riding conditions associated with motor-cycle use.
They require little or no Viscosity modifiers... synthetic oils
typically will hold their viscosity grade longer and thus will rate a
higher index number than non synthetic...
If there is one thing a owner has control of its the viscosity of
their oil... Mother Honda gives us the choice of either a 30 40 50
weight oil... that means a 0 40 is perfectly within the manual's
recommendations... and if you ask me I will recommend 0 30... because
flow is what lubricates our engines not pressure... an increased in
flow is an increased in cooling by the oil... an increase in flow
works harder to separate the engine parts that are under very high
stress... all in all an 0 30 with a viscosity of 56 at start up and
viscosity of 10 at operating temps works out better than 10w 30 or 10W
40 or even 20W 50 in the interest of engine longevity...
[image: post-3131-0-32777000-1323239640.jpg]
[image: post-3131-0-29847600-1323239975.jpg]
NakedVifferTo HispanicSlammer: Just keep in mind when going to adjust the clutch because your wheel is rolling. Its 100% normal for your wheel to roll when off the ground and the motor is running. Every motorcycle in the world does it( ok, at least 8 out of 10), its only a problem if its spinning faster than normal, and when you brake it or stop it from moving it affects engine rpm at all. Otherwise I wouldn't be concerned about it.
Wheel rotation is only normal if your oil is cold during start up but not when your oil is hot during operating temps...
BusyLittleShopand if you ask me I will recommend 0 30... because
flow is what lubricates our engines not pressure...
It must be winter, the oil thread is getting active again :laugh:
(I like a good oil thread.)
BLS, I have read your many posts about oil with interest. (Didn't we used to have a kind of bowing, 'I'm not worthy' emoticon? I wanted to insert that here.)
I used to be a proponent of Mobil 1 red cap for motorcycles up until a few years ago when they reformulated (or, more likely, remarketed ...) their lineup. Since then I have tried various oils in my bikes but haven't found anything I like as much as I liked red cap. I am currently using the motorcycle-specific Castrol Actevo Xtra 4T 10W-40 semi-synthetic. I like it better in the VFR than the Castrol motorcycle-specific 10W-40 conventional oil I tried last time (the semi-syn is smoother shifting). But I still don't think it's as good as the old fully synthetic red cap.
Do you endorse the above Mobil 1 0-30 Advanced Fuel Economy (which I assume is not bike-specific)? If so, I might give it a try next time around. I change my oil and filter frequently enough that viscosity breakdown from mileage is not a huge issue for me. My main concerns are smooth shifting, engine protection (antiwear) and cleaning (detergents).
Here is another pov. My college prof for power mechanics (1974) felt that engine warmup was faster if gently driven off after a short (30 sec.) idle rather than if allowed to idle up to operating temps. Any comments on this?
BelfryBusyLittleShopand if you ask me I will recommend 0 30... because
flow is what lubricates our engines not pressure...
It must be winter, the oil thread is getting active again :laugh:
(I like a good oil thread.)
BLS, I have read your many posts about oil with interest. (Didn't we used to have a kind of bowing, 'I'm not worthy' emoticon? I wanted to insert that here.)
I used to be a proponent of Mobil 1 red cap for motorcycles up until a few years ago when they reformulated (or, more likely, remarketed ...) their lineup. Since then I have tried various oils in my bikes but haven't found anything I like as much as I liked red cap. I am currently using the motorcycle-specific Castrol Actevo Xtra 4T 10W-40 semi-synthetic. I like it better in the VFR than the Castrol motorcycle-specific 10W-40 conventional oil I tried last time (the semi-syn is smoother shifting). But I still don't think it's as good as the old fully synthetic red cap.
Do you endorse the above Mobil 1 0-30 Advanced Fuel Economy (which I assume is not bike-specific)? If so, I might give it a try next time around. I change my oil and filter frequently enough that viscosity breakdown from mileage is not a huge issue for me. My main concerns are smooth shifting, engine protection (antiwear) and cleaning (detergents).
Thank you Belfry...
I endorse 100% synthetic with a viscosity of 56 at start up and a
viscosity of 10 at operating temps... I also endorse warming up your
oil to operating temps before selecting first gear...
AfricordLobsterThe issue is the wet clutch. Friction reducers and a device that needs friction can be a bad combination!I'm surprised about all the responses of folks using synthetic. I thought the manual said not to use oil with certain kind of friction additives or something, and every synthetic I've seen has them in the oil?
Negative... I've been using 10/30 Energy Conserving Mobil 1 since 98
in Mr.RC45 with no clutch slipping due to oil being certified 10%
slipperier than non EC oil... and it's a bike with a tall first gear
good for 90mph that's known to incinerate clutch plates...
Whats confusing the issue is the fact that all motorcycle wet clutches
will reach a point in their life and start to slip... so someone at
some point in time added the EC 10% slipperier oil and got the clutch
to slip... in error the oil was blamed and the "don't use EC Oil" myth
was started... even the manufactures have gone along with the myth and
didn't take the time to sort out the truth...
In short a 10% slippery oil can not defeat a wet clutch... because our
clutches are not within 10% of slipping to begin with...
Ive gotten over 90,000 miles on good clutch oil and expect a whole lot more , wonder when it would have failed with bad clutch oil , like MB rated Mobil 1 products?
I did once run Mobil 1 High milege 10w40, it was much slippery clutch oil, I litterally had to adjust my riding for it, not really out right slipping, but you could tell less bite in certain corner entry clutch action, too much freewheel, not enough drag. That was a direct Lack of clutch friction, even though I didnt experience out right slipping under acceleration, at some point though Im sure the MB1 will accelerate failure long before a Good clutch oil.
The strongest clutch oil Ive used is Rotella 15w40, I hate the stuff, its clutch action is so strong, Notchy as Hell shifting. But it and Both Rotella 5w40 offer good clutch life. The key to clutch Life is Clean oil, and good oil grip. Particulate will eat clutch fibers.
Ive been running Delo 15w40 for the last 30,000 miles, it was great grip , fairly cheap, and usable.
If I had to runan oil for 4 to 8,000 mile, it would be Mobil1 Vtwin 20w50, but for the Longevity Bros, frequent oil changes is the best method to reduce particulate damage.
10w30 will actually be thicker than straight 30 weight at full temperature, There's no polymers in straight 30 weight to Hold the viscosity, straight 30 weight, the hotter it gets the thinner it gets, damn near water, on a hot drain. Ive never seen a 10w30 with Polymers thin that much, Polymers is what maintains the visosity in mutigrades, as it heats, and multigrade group 2 and 3 oils have alot polymers, Now they say Polymers by themselves arent very good at lubricatiing. so is a thicker 10w30 at full temp with polymers, more protective than a thinner straight 30 weight with no polymers? Idont now but I can tell you stright 30 weight scared the Livin chit out of me, it was so thin, it drained in 30 seconds and not a drip afterwards PURE WATER!!!!!
Edited December 8, 2011 by spud786spud78610w30 will actually be thicker than straight 30 weight at full temperature, There's no polymers in straight 30 weight to Hold the viscosity, straight 30 weight, the hotter it gets the thinner it gets, damn near water, on a hot drain. Ive never seen a 10w30 with Polymers thin that much, Polymers is what maintains the visosity in mutigrades, as it heats, and multigrade group 2 and 3 oils have alot polymers, Now they say Polymers by themselves arent very good at lubricatiing. so is a thicker 10w30 at full temp with polymers, more protective than a thinner straight 30 weight with no polymers? Idont now but I can tell you stright 30 weight scared the Livin chit out of me, it was so thin, it drained in 30 seconds and not a drip afterwards PURE WATER!!!!!
True a straight weight 30 wether dino or synthetic does not use polymers
to stay in grade but also true that synthetics multi grades use little
or no polymers to stay in grade... the same can not be said about dino
multi grades... their base stocks are usually a 10wt oil and employ
polymers to flow like a 30 weight when hot... I confirmed with a Mobil
1 Technician that their 100% synthetic oils in grades 0 30 / 5 30 /
10W 30 are all essentially a 30 weight oil and can not be thinned by
the action of shearing... this is good news for us with engines that
share oil with the gear box...
Water is a molecule... the size of the molecule does not change but
the ability of water to flow does with temperature... H20 molecules
can be hard as ice... flow free as water or seen invisible as vapor...
but the size of the molecule does not altered its size... a 30 weight
oil molecule is the same size cold or hot but its ability to flow is
altered... cold it flows like molasses and hot it will flow like
water... we can't lubricate our engines with oil that flows like
molasses whereas we can lubricate our engines with oil the flows like
water... we should take it as a good sign that our engines are
protected by the hot flow of oil that reminds us of water...
spud786Im sure the MB1 will accelerate failure long before a Good clutch oil.
Negative... synthetic oil does not accelerate failure... syn oil cools and prolongs our clutches... if you wish to note accelerated failure take it to the drag strip or race track...
So, Mr. BLS, what IS the moly content of M1 0W30? It's been very cold here (single digits to low teens in the morning) and I'm thinking of trying this.
Edited December 9, 2011 by rangemasterrangemasterSo, Mr. BLS, what IS the moly content of M1 0W30? It's been very cold here (single digits to low teens in the morning) and I'm thinking of trying this.
I don't know the moly content of M1 0 30... but I've sent for a Blackstone test bottle to find out...
Additives fall into several basic categories but Moly is the most
often used friction modifier because it has such a high melting
temperature (4730¯ F versus 2795¯ F for iron), it works great as a
high-temperature, high-pressure antiwear agent. Some claim that
because moly is so slick, it can cause clutch slippage... but note
that 6 of the 19 motorcycle oils Sport Rider tested used moly
including the HP4 market by Honda for any of their motorcycles...
[image: 146-0310-Moly.content-zoom.gif]
Interesting read BLS, how would trying this fare against a southern AZ summer? Many times last summer it was 105-117 outside during my commutes and long weekend rides. What would you suggest in that case?
daemontrymInteresting read BLS, how would trying this fare against a southern AZ summer? Many times last summer it was 105-117 outside during my commutes and long weekend rides. What would you suggest in that case?
My choice would be either a 0 30 or 0 40 depending on coolant temps... never 15 50...
Since 98 Mr.RC45 and Mobil 1 10W30 has gone through the summer months here in Ca with
outside temps over 100ºF... this summer I shall run Mobil 1 0 30... my coolant temps stabilize
between 212ºF and 230ºF... only at stand still do I see 230ºF but as soon as I drop the clutch the
temps fall... I have over 55K miles on the clock and Larry Calamari is not known to ride in moderation...
One rating to know is a Oils HTHS rating taken at 302ºF / 150ºC...
HTHS stands for High Temperature High Shear and what it means is that
if you somehow allow your engine reach 150c or 302F the 0 30 oil will
flow at a viscosity of 3.06... but In order to run 302F our
coolant systems would have to fail or we would be racing wide
fooking open on a track...
The thickness of moving oil is measured in centiStokes or cS. The
motorcycle engineers design the pump and blow off so the ideal oil
viscosity is around 10 cS at normal operating temp of 100c or 212F...
The really thick multigrade oils such as 50Wt have a viscosity of 20
cS at operating temperature. Contrary what some people believe 50 is
not twice as thick as 30, it is only 10 cS thicker... or 10 cS free
flowing...
As we increase the heat from 212 F to 302 F my recommended 30 wt oil
thins from 10 cS to 3 cS... a 50w oil drops from 20 cS to 4 cS. Note
that in a very hot engine the difference between the two oils is now
only 1 - 2 cS. In other words they have about the same thickness.
There is little advantage to a thicker based oil as a 15W-50 at very
high temperatures... its a fact that the 4 cS oil is not twice as
thick as the 2 or 3 cS oil. This difference is measurable but no
cause for alarm...
There is a huge advantage of using the free flowing 0W-30 at startup
where 90 percent of the engine wear occurs. At 75 F the free flowing
0W 30 has a viscosity of 56 cS while the less flowing 0W 40 oil has a
viscosity of 80 cS. The less flowing stuff is 24 cS slower. This is a
much bigger difference than the .44 cS at HTHS...
rangemasterSo, Mr. BLS, what IS the moly content of M1 0W30?
Here are the moly and phoshorus and zinc content of all the Mobil Ones
[image: post-3131-0-46255200-1323470403.jpg]
Wow, thank you Sir. Come home late from work, sit down at the computer with a beer, see if there have been any updates on the oil the thread and there's the answer to my question! I've seen some motorcycle oils with 3 x's the amount of moly these have so the 0W30 is going in this weekend.
Who said oil threads are boring? Very informative Larry, thanks :fing02:
BusyLittleShopspud786Im sure the MB1 will accelerate failure long before a Good clutch oil.Negative... synthetic oil does not accelerate failure... syn oil cools and prolongs our clutches... if you wish to note accelerated failure take it to the drag strip or race track...
Nobody said synthetic oil accelerates faiilure, I said MB rated oil like your ow30 mobil1 doesnt meet the MA clutch friction gate, While there is moly agents in some mc oils, Ive only had issue with Redline MB rated oil with 700 ppm Moly.
Theres one thing analysis doesnt show , the Base Oil slickness , the anals only show only the additives, but Low weight energy efficient oils are going to be full of Polymers strands.
Ive ran real synthetic , not the group 3 mobile one stuff, in 5 w40 weight Group 4 PAO oil and obvious cam lobe wear within 30,000 miles , in a 4,000 pm car okay, but a 12,000 rpm bike, ow30 is thin stuff.
Edited December 11, 2011 by spud786spud786I said MB rated oil like your ow30 mobil1 doesnt meet the MA clutch friction gate,
An oil that meets JASO-MA is considered appropriate for wet clutch operations. Oils marketed as
motorcycle-specific will carry the JASO-MA label. A properly specified motorcycle oil will still allow for
the appropriate lubrication and cooling of a motorcycle clutch, whilst maintaining 100% of the drive
to be transmitted by the clutch, even under arduous operating conditions... Mr.RC45's tall first gear
good for 90mph operates under arduous conditions on the street and track... and I'm here to report
that Mobli 1 10W30 or 0W30 has maintained 100% of the drive of 116RWHP... so for all practical
purporses I've meet and passed the MA clutch friction gate test... so do you still think 0W30 won't
pass mustard with your VFR's clutch???
spud786but Low weight energy efficient oils are going to be full of Polymers strands.
Techincally speaking straight dino oil employs heavy polymers but synthetics employ either light
weight polymers or no polymers at all...
Quote Oil Bible
Unfortunately, because petroleum basestocks (dino oil ) are so prone to viscosity
loss at high temperatures, high molecular weight polymers must be
used. Since these polymers are more prone to shearing than lower
molecular weight polymers, petroleum oils tend to shear back very
quickly. In other words, they lose their ability to maintain their
viscosity at high temperatures.
Synthetic basestocks, on the other hand, are much less prone to
viscosity loss at high temperatures. Therefore, lower molecular weight
polymers may be used as VI improvers. These polymers are less prone to
shearing, so they are effective for a much longer period of time than
the VI improvers used in (dino) petroleum oils. In other words, synthetic
oils do not quickly lose their ability to maintain viscosity at high
temperatures as petroleum oils do.
In fact, some synthetic basestocks are so stable at high temperatures
they need NO VI improvers at all. Obviously, these basestocks will
maintain their high temperature viscosities for a very long time since
there are no VI improvers to break down.
spud786Ive ran real synthetic , not the group 3 mobile one stuff, in 5 w40 weight Group 4 PAO oil and obvious cam lobe wear within 30,000 miles
What year VFR was this and how did you note the obvious wear??? Did you Mic the cam to follow up your assumptions???
It was on a DRZ400, 5w40 group4 PAO (2,000 mile max interval) street, I didnt mic the cam, cause it didnt matter to me at the time, bike still worked good, but the lobe wear was obvious(and I noted it first at 25,000 miles(3rd check), it was worse by 40,000 , and I checked the valves on it atleast 4 or 5 times in the 40,000 mile I owned it.
10,000 Rpm redline, Alot of sustained 8 to 9,500 rpm riding.
I just fiquere, if a 5w40 Pure PAO cant quelch that wear, definitely dont want lower .
On a side note My vfr 5w40 Rotella loses a full Grade by 1100 miles, I broke the bike in on that the first 7,000 miles. But I run heavier stuff since that time.
I always found more oil stays on the lobes with a thicker oil than thin oil during shut down time.
spud786On a side note My vfr 5w40 Rotella loses a full Grade by 1100 miles,
How did you determine your oil lost a full grade in 1100 miles???
How did you determine your oil lost a full grade in 1100 miles???
Through oil analysis, I saw alot of oil degrade in the first 7,000 miles which was kinda shocking to me, I was running about 1100 mile intervals,becuse of this. I did the analysis to verify what my eye was seeing ,on my oil dumps.
BTW all my oil dumps are after multihoured runs, drained HOT
The first analysis was on Rotella 5w40 synthetic, and the second was on Amsoil 15w40 diesil, the amsoil held up alot better and more than double the distance with identical wear numbers and oil degrade over the Rotella.
Edited December 12, 2011 by spud786spud786Through oil analysis
Good... what lab did the analysis??? and post them up for all to see...
I would really like to see an oil thread of Lab Analysis - Blackstone - mileage, and data results.
I dont presently have a camara or camera phone , and I thought I might have one stashed on photbucket, but no dice.
so here's the numbers from Blackstone
Your motor is showing High Lead in the oil, probably , which may be due to Racing.
(next round, I told the its from leaded race fuel, they were relieved LOL!)
amsoil 15w40 1900 mile on oil Rotella 5w40 1100 miles on oil
alumi 8 alum 6
iron 9 iron 7
copper 1 copper 1
tin 1 tin 1
moly 3 moly 6
boron 1 boron 0
silicon 3 silcon 4
sodium 4 sodium 6
cacium 3170 calcium 2670
magneisum 8 mag 7
phos 1065 phos 1003
zinc 1289 zinc 1150
flash 370 flash 360
sus vis 62.9
insolubals .1
thats all i have its 5 years ago when I did this, miles on bike on both oils under 8,000 miles
Lead was 20 ppm on both oils
Flash on rotella was 385 and not 360
the rottella sus vicosity 62.7
Edited December 13, 2011 by spud786spud786I dont presently have a camara or camera phone , and I thought I might have one stashed on photbucket, but no dice.
so here's the numbers from Blackstone
Your motor is showing High Lead in the oil, probably , which may be due to Racing.
(next round, I told the its from leaded race fuel, they were relieved LOL!)
amsoil 15w40 1900 mile on oil Rotella 5w40 1100 miles on oil
alumi 8 alum 6
iron 9 iron 7
copper 1 copper 1
tin 1 tin 1
moly 3 moly 6
boron 1 boron 0
silicon 3 silcon 4
sodium 4 sodium 6
cacium 3170 calcium 2670
magneisum 8 mag 7
phos 1065 phos 1003
zinc 1289 zinc 1150
flash 370 flash 360
sus vis 62.9
insolubals .1
thats all i have its 5 years ago when I did this, miles on bike on both oils under 8,000 miles
Thanks... sus 62.9 is equal to the viscosity of 11.1 cSt
Just because it is snowing and I do not want to get out.
Sent in sample to Blackstone from 2000 bmw rt using Lubro-Moly (German syn.) lab report said there was- NO ! metal in the oil of any kind. He said it was the cleanest oil he had seen in a 249 bmw engine. I do not want to talk about the rest of the ****
bike. Blackstone said that to change it before 8,300 miles was throwing money away. Sent sample in at 5,000 miles.
Hope the vfr and ducati samples are that good.
Without scientific proof everything else is informed or uninformed opinion.
Could all the metals have settled out of the oil, Ive never seen a used oil sample show no metal at all, try a Hot drain.
The oil was hot,hot,hot and I changed it in hot Corpus Christi. I did not believe no metals but Blackstone said it was the cleanest 249 that they had seen.
My only point is scientific lab reports are the way to go and the only way to know what your oil is really doing.(Along with cutting the oil filter in half.)
I am sure Mr.H.Slammer is getting a kick out of all this.
All oil is good, running out of oil is bad.
On the other hand , I run plugs in tires and mix-match brands of tires on bikes. Mixed bias and radials on cars and trucks- air in tires beats type of tires.
Well, I put Larry's 0W30 M1 in my '97 last night and rode to work today. Air temp on way to work 25F, on way home 37F. I had M1 10W40 motorcycle oil in it. Starter had and easier time spinning it to start and cold idle was higher. Less internal engine noise until it warmed up, then the same as normal. Shifting seems a bit notchier than with the 10W40. It seems overall to like the 0w30 in these colder temps, may work out great as a winter commuting oil. Because of our temp extremes here in New Mexico I feel I have to change twice a year 'cause I ride year round. This stuff and the M1 10w40 bike oil may be my 4th gen's diet for the future.
texasvfrJust because it is snowing and I do not want to get out.
Sent in sample to Blackstone from 2000 bmw rt using Lubro-Moly (German syn.) lab report said there was- NO ! metal in the oil of any kind. He said it was the cleanest oil he had seen in a 249 bmw engine. I do not want to talk about the rest of the ****
bike. Blackstone said that to change it before 8,300 miles was throwing money away. Sent sample in at 5,000 miles.
Hope the vfr and ducati samples are that good.
Without scientific proof everything else is informed or uninformed opinion.
Thanks for this report...
rangemasterWell, I put Larry's 0W30 M1 in my '97 last night and rode to work today. Air temp on way to work 25F, on way home 37F. I had M1 10W40 motorcycle oil in it. Starter had and easier time spinning it to start and cold idle was higher. Less internal engine noise until it warmed up, then the same as normal. Shifting seems a bit notchier than with the 10W40. It seems overall to like the 0w30 in these colder temps, may work out great as a winter commuting oil. Because of our temp extremes here in New Mexico I feel I have to change twice a year 'cause I ride year round. This stuff and the M1 10w40 bike oil may be my 4th gen's diet for the future.
Thanks for the report... may I quote you in an another forum where they believe 0W30 is "horrible" for our engines???
BusyLittleShoprangemasterWell, I put Larry's 0W30 M1 in my '97 last night and rode to work today. Air temp on way to work 25F, on way home 37F. I had M1 10W40 motorcycle oil in it. Starter had and easier time spinning it to start and cold idle was higher. Less internal engine noise until it warmed up, then the same as normal. Shifting seems a bit notchier than with the 10W40. It seems overall to like the 0w30 in these colder temps, may work out great as a winter commuting oil. Because of our temp extremes here in New Mexico I feel I have to change twice a year 'cause I ride year round. This stuff and the M1 10w40 bike oil may be my 4th gen's diet for the future.
Thanks for the report... may I quote you in an another forum where they believe 0W30 is "horrible" for our engines???
Hahahaha! Sure, not that my experience means much. Like I said, the bike seems much happier with the "lighter" stuff in it. In the winter I just commute or go meet for lunch, no long runs so the 0W30 is a good match for what the bike is being used for. I think I'll do the Blackstone thing in the spring to see what is actually going on.
Ok Folks Well i can't find my trusty ol 15 50 mobil 1 here in the great white north in 4.4 or 5 litre jugs( been using it for 8 years) so i'm switching ( i think) to 5 w 40 Rotella T6. However having read this entire thread a few folks said it T6 was terrible in the tranny dept. The one thing i always noticed was the smoother shifting with the mobil 1 and am concerend the T6 is not that great in this regard so looking for more feed back on how the T6 is in the shifting dept , is it really that bad or not a concern and go for the switch????
Thanks in advance
I use T-6 in my 5th and 6th gens and they both shift like butter . . .
CogswellI use T-6 in my 5th and 6th gens and they both shift like butter . . .
Same here in my 6th gen...Keith Code says smooth shifts are more in technique than what type of oil you are running anyway...I think he knows more than me
dudeOk Folks Well i can't find my trusty ol 15 50 mobil 1 here in the great white north in 4.4 or 5 litre jugs( been using it for 8 years) so i'm switching ( i think) to 5 w 40 Rotella T6. However having read this entire thread a few folks said it T6 was terrible in the tranny dept. The one thing i always noticed was the smoother shifting with the mobil 1 and am concerend the T6 is not that great in this regard so looking for more feed back on how the T6 is in the shifting dept , is it really that bad or not a concern and go for the switch????
Thanks in advance
The reason mobil1 shifts better, is because rotella has a fimer clutch grip and mobil1 has less grip, so it shifts smoother , rotella 15w40 is the worst shifting oil Ive ever ran, notchy as all get out, the T6 is okay atleast better then the rotella 15w40.
There's only about a 5% to 10% gain between the worst shift oil and the best, but it can be a GATE or NO GATE transition, or pass or fail if you will.
If you really want to try very smooth shifting oils, try Maxima 4 extra, or motul 15w50 , they have moly in them which benifits transmission smoothness, but they arent cheap.
Edited March 8, 2012 by spud786CogswellI use T-6 in my 5th and 6th gens and they both shift like butter . . .
When my customers complain about shifting my experience it
can be traced to clutch drag and not the oil... I doubt a
rider can tell the difference in a BLIND shift test...
usually a rider develops a feeling about an oil based on how
enjoyable they are traveling down the perverted highway...
like toilet paper you can roll freely or wipe sh*t off
someone's A hole...
So here's my method to check your clutch for drag... your
gears can't shift smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...
1 Place your bike on the center stand...
2 Start engine and establish a steady idle...
3 Squeeze in the clutch and hold... shift into first gear...
4 Now look at the rear wheel... if it's spinning step on the rear brake...
does this action drag down the engine rpms???
If you bike is equipped with an cable then adjust the clutch lever
knob clock wise (out) 1/4 turn and check again check for clutch
drag... if you bike is equipped with hydraulics bleed system and check
for bubbles...
Ultimately you want the rear wheel to stop when the engine is idling
and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...
In conclusion
After 25 years dealing with customers I think its not a question of
oil so much as a question of technique and clutch...
My RC30 and RC45 customers will ask for the same slick shifting oil that
made their friend's RC30 and RC45 shift so smoothly after it left the
Busy Little Shop... I hate to break it to them but it wasn't the oil
that made the difference it was rider technique and the elimination of
clutch drag... so before I will dump one slick shifting oil for the
next slick shifting oil I work with them on their technique and their
clutch... then and only then will they understand that they were
fooled into thinking it was the oil when in fact it was technique and
clutch...
I think we are after the same thing... smooth shift without upsetting
the suspension... the secret is moving the foot quicker than clutch or
throttle... go easy with the clutch and throttle but move your foot
quicker... but worry there is no such thing as too quick... its early
form of seem-less shifting...
I tend to agree about shifting technique is the main factor, but from day one I have used Motul 5100 10w40 which is a semi synthetic, I never bothered with a full synthetic mainly due to frequent oil changes at about 5000km intervals & the oil was doing it's job because it would come out fairly dirty at change time. I haven't really changed my clutch/shift technique at all because after riding for over 35 years I probably set in my ways by now. When riding the VFR hard high rpm & allot of gear changes I would tend to get a false neutral every now & then, yes some operator error was probably the cause.
Due to also owning a CBR1000RR which I run Castrol Power 1 Racing 5W40 which is a full synthetic I decided to only keep one oil for both bikes (I can buy the Castrol for about same price as the Motul I was using) & have started using it in the VFR. I have noticed my VFR will operate at a slightly lower temperature & haven't had a false neutral since changing. Now I'm not a chemical engineer & I don't agonize over what oil to use it just has to do the job so I don't see any metal partials at oil change time & I want it to come out dirty at 5000kms which tells me it is doing it's job. Like I said my technique wouldn't have changed so there must be some part of the equation which is oil related.
I can't find Rotella synthetic T6 5W40 at the Walmart north of Toronto, Anyone know of a source?
Thanks,
Jeff
+1 T6 works great on my bike, never had problem with shifting.
BusyLittleShop'CogswellI use T-6 in my 5th and 6th gens and they both shift like butter . . .
When my customers complain about shifting my experience it
can be traced to clutch drag and not the oil... I doubt a
rider can tell the difference in a BLIND shift test...
usually a rider develops a feeling about an oil based on how
enjoyable they are traveling down the perverted highway...
like toilet paper you can roll freely or wipe sh*t off
someone's A hole...
So here's my method to check your clutch for drag... your
gears can't shift smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...
1 Place your bike on the center stand...
2 Start engine and establish a steady idle...
3 Squeeze in the clutch and hold... shift into first gear...
4 Now look at the rear wheel... if it's spinning step on the rear brake...
does this action drag down the engine rpms???
If you bike is equipped with an cable then adjust the clutch lever
knob clock wise (out) 1/4 turn and check again check for clutch
drag... if you bike is equipped with hydraulics bleed system and check
for bubbles...
Ultimately you want the rear wheel to stop when the engine is idling
and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...
In conclusion
After 25 years dealing with customers I think its not a question of
oil so much as a question of technique and clutch...
My RC30 and RC45 customers will ask for the same slick shifting oil that
made their friend's RC30 and RC45 shift so smoothly after it left the
Busy Little Shop... I hate to break it to them but it wasn't the oil
that made the difference it was rider technique and the elimination of
clutch drag... so before I will dump one slick shifting oil for the
next slick shifting oil I work with them on their technique and their
clutch... then and only then will they understand that they were
fooled into thinking it was the oil when in fact it was technique and
clutch...
I think we are after the same thing... smooth shift without upsetting
the suspension... the secret is moving the foot quicker than clutch or
throttle... go easy with the clutch and throttle but move your foot
quicker... but worry there is no such thing as too quick... its early
form of seem-less shifting...
So what the Hell oil are you using Larry??? :goofy:
BaileyrockBusyLittleShop'CogswellI use T-6 in my 5th and 6th gens and they both shift like butter . . .
When my customers complain about shifting my experience it
can be traced to clutch drag and not the oil... I doubt a
rider can tell the difference in a BLIND shift test...
usually a rider develops a feeling about an oil based on how
enjoyable they are traveling down the perverted highway...
like toilet paper you can roll freely or wipe sh*t off
someone's A hole...
So here's my method to check your clutch for drag... your
gears can't shift smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...
1 Place your bike on the center stand...
2 Start engine and establish a steady idle...
3 Squeeze in the clutch and hold... shift into first gear...
4 Now look at the rear wheel... if it's spinning step on the rear brake...
does this action drag down the engine rpms???
If you bike is equipped with an cable then adjust the clutch lever
knob clock wise (out) 1/4 turn and check again check for clutch
drag... if you bike is equipped with hydraulics bleed system and check
for bubbles...
Ultimately you want the rear wheel to stop when the engine is idling
and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...
In conclusion
After 25 years dealing with customers I think its not a question of
oil so much as a question of technique and clutch...
My RC30 and RC45 customers will ask for the same slick shifting oil that
made their friend's RC30 and RC45 shift so smoothly after it left the
Busy Little Shop... I hate to break it to them but it wasn't the oil
that made the difference it was rider technique and the elimination of
clutch drag... so before I will dump one slick shifting oil for the
next slick shifting oil I work with them on their technique and their
clutch... then and only then will they understand that they were
fooled into thinking it was the oil when in fact it was technique and
clutch...
I think we are after the same thing... smooth shift without upsetting
the suspension... the secret is moving the foot quicker than clutch or
throttle... go easy with the clutch and throttle but move your foot
quicker... but worry there is no such thing as too quick... its early
form of seem-less shifting...
So what the Hell oil are you using Larry??? :goofy:
DUDE YOUR LATE AGAIN Just kiddin.
My god, this tread is still alive?
I've got 86,000km on my 07... I've used everything from Mobile 1 to Castrol and now using Motul because I found a place and it's cheaper than everything else.
We ride VFRs, I bet you could put used frier grease from McDonalds in them and they would still go forever :)
I use Amsoil once the motor is broken in. R1 is at 2000 miles and have switched over fully to Amsoil 10w40 full synth.
VFR1200, since I bought it with 1600 miles, is going to get some Castrol Semi-Synth 10w40 car oil for about 1k miles then I'll switch her to Amsoil.
I'll be sending in samples to Blackstone for both bikes until they have figured out optimum intervals. I'll post the data sheets here when it's time. Lab results are concrete and anything else is fodder IMO.
If many would send in samples, it would benefit the community.
developed for rolls-Royce jet engines decades ago. Rolls-Royce have never had an engine failure!.........silkolene recommend 5/40w fully synthetic pro-4plus for hard use in a vtech engine........http://www.silkolene.com/
Edited April 5, 2013 by firebladestanI'll chuck in damn near anything that meets what the manual lists as far as specifications go...
That said I normally use silkolene, as that is what my favorite parts store carries, and I'm more than happy to drop cash in their hands in exchange for the excellent service I've come to expect.
So you had 4500 miles on T6 oil, thats a little long for me, i always try to change mine with T6 at 2000 miles(bike has 60,000 mile) but now I know nobody rides the sameway. It would be interesting to see what the T6 looks like at 2500 miles. Dont like the metal in the oil..
If you can afford it...like racers do, I'd change oil every weekend. Most people won't change early at 2000 miles. I use T6 and change at 6000...to each his own. I might get a package from Blackstone and do the test as this is a new bike to me...3000 the first time and 6000 the next...bike has 73k mi.
SwitchbladeSo you had 4500 miles on T6 oil, thats a little long for me, i always try to change mine with T6 at 2000 miles(bike has 60,000 mile) but now I know nobody rides the sameway. It would be interesting to see what the T6 looks like at 2500 miles. Dont like the metal in the oil..
I normally haven't gone that far either. In this case I took a 4,000 + mile trip so there wasn't much choice. Had the trip been further I might have found some place along the way to change it. The longer interval is what made me want to have the analysis done.
zupatunIf you can afford it...like racers do, I'd change oil every weekend. Most people won't change early at 2000 miles. I use T6 and change at 6000...to each his own. I might get a package from Blackstone and do the test as this is a new bike to me...3000 the first time and 6000 the next...bike has 73k mi.
+1 just curious to see if I'm changing mine to soon.
CogswellSwitchbladeSo you had 4500 miles on T6 oil, thats a little long for me, i always try to change mine with T6 at 2000 miles(bike has 60,000 mile) but now I know nobody rides the sameway. It would be interesting to see what the T6 looks like at 2500 miles. Dont like the metal in the oil..
I normally haven't gone that far either. In this case I took a 4,000 + mile trip so there wasn't much choice. Had the trip been further I might have found some place along the way to change it. The longer interval is what made me want to have the analysis done.
Yeah i agree sometimes have to go long.
Ive looked at a few of these Blackstone reports, and they strike me as an engine health report more than an oil report. Yes, they do the analysis of the elements in the oil. But are they saying the sample is acceptable and can run farther, longer? Are they saying you can run another 4000 miles? - Interpretation is key.
What do you guys think?
I was thinking the same thing MD...my interpretation of the oil sample that Cogswell (of Spacely's Sprockets no doubt) posted was that at 4591 miles the oil looked like any oil that had run for 2900 miles and that the additives were 3.9 and anything above 1.0 is still active and working so check back in 4,000 more miles...
I would certainly call Blackstone and ask for them to walk my dumbazz through that report...on second thought I will send for their sample kit and send them my own oil so I can have them explain it to me.
Yeah cant imagine mc oil of any kind lasting 8000 miles.
CogswellSilver huh? Lost a nose piercing while doing the oil change? :laugh:I hadn't planned on posting this, but since it was suggested above and this is a long running post, here it is.
V4 RossoCogswellSilver huh? Lost a nose piercing while doing the oil change? :laugh:I hadn't planned on posting this, but since it was suggested above and this is a long running post, here it is.
Thats a money maker, I wish mine was making silver.
SwitchbladeYeah cant imagine mc oil of any kind lasting 8000 miles.
My VFR manual specs out 8k intervals for changing the oil, my Ducati specs out 7.5k miles.
Seen BMW cars with something like 16k mile oil change intervals. Heck some cars (corvettes for one) don't even have mileage recommendations, they have an oil change light that turns on depending on a whole host of programmed conditions.
Why not go with what the manufacturer calls for?
slitherSwitchbladeYeah cant imagine mc oil of any kind lasting 8000 miles.
My VFR manual specs out 8k intervals for changing the oil, my Ducati specs out 7.5k miles.
Seen BMW cars with something like 16k mile oil change intervals. Heck some cars (corvettes for one) don't even have mileage recommendations, they have an oil change light that turns on depending on a whole host of programmed conditions.
Why not go with what the manufacturer calls for?
Lots of people are under the impression that the engineers get to write the specifications to the letter that they want and believe is correct. Well, in a large corporation, quite often, that is only partially true. Some corps, it is a policy from the top, that they want to promote the appearance that they are Pro Green policy. Honda is big on this. So, what happens quite often is that marketing gets its orders and they have to take that and wrestle with the engineers to agree on a balance of policy and the balance of technical reality. So here, specing out a 8k interval may be totally possible, and some have demontrated it, as a company promoting long intervals seems to be a pro green, environmental help the earth thing and that is good PR for the manufacturer. But assuming 8k interval fits everybodys situation? Probably not true. (Why Blackstone gets business.)
As an automotive engineer, I have been in quite a few situations that marketing insists that we have to change something for a policy or a cost issue. - Engineer says I need $25 to do this right, marketing come back and demands you only get $20. So your stuck and have to lowball components to put it together. Ad nausem. (sucks) - I'm guessing this happened to VFR wire harnesses.
slitherSwitchbladeYeah cant imagine mc oil of any kind lasting 8000 miles.
My VFR manual specs out 8k intervals for changing the oil, my Ducati specs out 7.5k miles.
Seen BMW cars with something like 16k mile oil change intervals. Heck some cars (corvettes for one) don't even have mileage recommendations, they have an oil change light that turns on depending on a whole host of programmed conditions.
Why not go with what the manufacturer calls for?
Main reason I dont is because of the way i ride. Pretty hard on VFR so I always change around 2000 mile.
I love my bike, and changing it more frequently and using higher-grade stuff is cheap insurance. That's my reason.
slitherWhy not go with what the manufacturer calls for?
You'll find owners who change your oil at 2K all the way to 8K manufactures recommendation but whats constant is the fact not one of them complains about wearing out their engine before its time... 8K interval is the safe limit of how long the additive package last according to the test by the Honda engineers... if an owner is in doubt then I suggest sending a sample to Blackstone labs to know for sure if their additive package is still robust enough for use or not... the only thing I hate is not knowing something...
BusyLittleShopslitherWhy not go with what the manufacturer calls for?
You'll find owners who change your oil at 2K all the way to 8K manufactures recommendation but whats constant is the fact not one of them complains about wearing out their engine before its time... 8K interval is the safe limit of how long the additive package last according to the test by the Honda engineers... if an owner is in doubt then I suggest sending a sample to Blackstone labs to know for sure if their additive package is still robust enough for use or not... the only thing I hate is not knowing something...
I've gotten Blackstone reports on the oil out of both my Honda and Ducati. Never seen anything that they said was of concern, except for once when I replaced a clutch. That stuff went away with the next oil change.
Just had my first oil test done on the VFR, I was going to do it at 100K, but didn't have a test jar and didn't feel like holding on to old oil. I've had this bike since around 45K miles, and in this time, other than change the oil/filter and clean the air filter (once), done absolutely nothing to the engine.
[image: post-7517-0-96360700-1379093904.jpg]
Edited September 13, 2013 by xrcrisLooks dam good to me ......
+1 Looks like your engine likes the Rotella T. Have you been always running that oil? That is the non-synthetic, right?
Oh, and what is your usual change interval and filter brand?
Sinse he ran it 5000 miles I am gonna guess Rotella T6.
T6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
2thdrT6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
Oops's your right that's dino..
Switchblade2thdrT6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
Oops's your that's dino..
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
Rush2112Switchblade2thdrT6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
Oops's your that's dino..
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
And since it IS the Rotella T and not synthetic, it is all the more impressive!
Rush2112Switchblade2thdrT6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
Oops's your that's dino..
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
Switchblade2thdrT6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
Oops's your right that's dino..
Yeh I know ..
2thdr+1 Looks like your engine likes the Rotella T. Have you been always running that oil? That is the non-synthetic, right?
Oh, and what is your usual change interval and filter brand?
Yep, it's pretty happy (so's the Powerstroke that gets even more of it).
Usual interval is 5K miles, and I use Bosch filters.
I bought the Bosch filters last time on Amazon for my CB1R...turns out they are a little longer than stock even though I got the "short" ones. Just had to get longer bolts for the filter cover...
2thdrI bought the Bosch filters last time on Amazon for my CB1R...turns out they are a little longer than stock even though I got the "short" ones. Just had to get longer bolts for the filter cover...
That would've been a bummer if you're like me; trying to do it on a Sunday night before work....Since the VFR uses the same filter as the same year civics, I never have the number when I pick up filters and have to check the book, but its just a spin-on........
ahh the oil thread-- amsoil state they are the best honda gn4 belray exp silkolene all worked good for me-- change it when recommend and let the bike warm up is really all you need to do-- 15-50 in summer 10-40 rest
theelfahh the oil thread-- amsoil state they are the best honda gn4 belray exp silkolene all worked good for me-- change it when recommend and let the bike warm up is really all you need to do-- 15-50 in summer 10-40 rest
Allowing the oil to reach operating temp is a good advice... but all you need to do to lower your summer
operating temps and enjoy about 5HP more is to choose the recommended 30 weight...
dino oil honda is good gn4 but intervals are less apart via the synthetics hot higher weight-- next change i be puttin in some of dat dare 15-50 ultra triples esters from dat dare maxima found it on sale on dis herah computa evfrey thang should be allright
BusyLittleShoptheelfahh the oil thread-- amsoil state they are the best honda gn4 belray exp silkolene all worked good for me-- change it when recommend and let the bike warm up is really all you need to do-- 15-50 in summer 10-40 rest
Allowing the oil to reach operating temp is a good advice... but all you need to do to lower your summer
operating temps and enjoy about 5HP more is to choose the recommended 30 weight...
ya but it beez real hot here in the summer i mean hot-- burn your feet on the concrete hot- like hot desert type hot even the snakes hide out from the heat in the summer its just plain hot-- engine need higher weight from all that heat- temp guage says its hot too.. its just hot in da south in summer hot--
I ride in some f***ing cold temps, so the thing gets 0w40 full synth rotella that meets JASO-MA specs for wet clutches.
and by cold, I mean that The coldest day I've done was around -18C. :D
I keep it simple Honda branded dino m/c specific oil, honda oil filter every few thousand miles, no problems or concerns.
I'm a little late to the party, but I read through the entire thread and don't think I missed it.
What about Castrol Power RS Racing 4T??
Rush2112That is really kind of my point related to 3k oil changes in general. A huge waste of money and an Excellant Marketing Champaign by the oil Co's. Let's just focus on the Honda VFR here.Switchblade2thdrOops's your that's dino..T6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
Honda Engineer's recomended 8k oil change intervals with Dino oil and if you follow any oil test reports Honda Branded Oil usually rates towards the bottom of quality list in most any oil comparo test.
Now let me put my simple mind to this issue starting only with a few facts first:
1- Honda produces high quality products
2- Honda engineers design those products
3- Honda engineers recommend 8k dino oil change intervals
4- Honda dino oil test in bottom half of quality testing(see about any test results)
5- Full Syn oil consistently test out better in all catigories vs dino oil ( to simplify only use info from top 5 Full Syn and top 5 dino oil from testing) btw no Honda oil on either list,
Now let me start some simple conjecture:
Honda engineers are comfy running their (lower quality) Branded dino at 8 k intervals, so by using a better quality dino oil like even the Rotella T mentioned here these same Honda engineers should easily approve 9k intervals using the better oil. Yes?
Full Syn oil consistently runs longer intervals while performing as good or more often better then similar dino's. Yes?
Now add together Honda engineered recommended 8k intervals, higher quality oil and now make it a high quality full syn oil and what intervals would you think those Honda engineers would recommend.
Just by using my simple mind, these 5 simple facts that are laided out above and the slightest amount of realistic conjecture I have some serious backing to be very comfortable changing my oil with a top 5 rated dino oil at 8k intervals.
I run Mobil 1 and am very happy with 6-8k intervals and have hit 10k once, wish I would have tested it!!!
All intervals can be adjusted up or down based on other factors like how, where, temps, how many 4th gear wheelies, etc. but in general
I consider any sub 5k interval severe over indulgence.
Peace Out and Save the Dinosaurs!
PS I'm Old and Slow but still run the piss out of my bikes and I've put over 105,000 miles on this one so far.
BR
BaileyrockDude... it was 75 F in Nashville today... what are you doing on a Winter blues oil thread???Rush2112That is really kind of my point related to 3k oil changes in general. A huge waste of money and an Excellant Marketing Champaign by the oil Co's. Let's just focus on the Honda VFR here.Switchblade2thdrOops's your that's dino..T6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
Honda Engineer's recomended 8k oil change intervals with Dino oil and if you follow any oil test reports Honda Branded Oil usually rates towards the bottom of quality list in most any oil comparo test.
Now let me put my simple mind to this issue starting only with a few facts first:
1- Honda produces high quality products
2- Honda engineers design those products
3- Honda engineers recommend 8k dino oil change intervals
4- Honda dino oil test in bottom half of quality testing(see about any test results)
5- Full Syn oil consistently test out better in all catigories vs dino oil ( to simplify only use info from top 5 Full Syn and top 5 dino oil from testing) btw no Honda oil on either list,
Now let me start some simple conjecture:
Honda engineers are comfy running their (lower quality) Branded dino at 8 k intervals, so by using a better quality dino oil like even the Rotella T mentioned here these same Honda engineers should easily approve 9k intervals using the better oil. Yes?
Full Syn oil consistently runs longer intervals while performing as good or more often better then similar dino's. Yes?
Now add together Honda engineered recommended 8k intervals, higher quality oil and now make it a high quality full syn oil and what intervals would you think those Honda engineers would recommend.
Just by using my simple mind, these 5 simple facts that are laided out above and the slightest amount of realistic conjecture I have some serious backing to be very comfortable changing my oil with a top 5 rated dino oil at 8k intervals.
I run Mobil 1 and am very happy with 6-8k intervals and have hit 10k once, wish I would have tested it!!!
All intervals can be adjusted up or down based on other factors like how, where, temps, how many 4th gear wheelies, etc. but in general
I consider any sub 5k interval severe over indulgence.
Peace Out and Save the Dinosaurs!
PS I'm Old and Slow but still run the piss out of my bikes and I've put over 105,000 miles on this one so far.
BR
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Rush2112BaileyrockDude... it was 75 F in Nashville today... what are you doing on a Winter blues oil thread???Rush2112That is really kind of my point related to 3k oil changes in general. A huge waste of money and an Excellant Marketing Champaign by the oil Co's. Let's just focus on the Honda VFR here.Switchblade2thdrOops's your that's dino..T6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
Honda Engineer's recomended 8k oil change intervals with Dino oil and if you follow any oil test reports Honda Branded Oil usually rates towards the bottom of quality list in most any oil comparo test.
Now let me put my simple mind to this issue starting only with a few facts first:
1- Honda produces high quality products
2- Honda engineers design those products
3- Honda engineers recommend 8k dino oil change intervals
4- Honda dino oil test in bottom half of quality testing(see about any test results)
5- Full Syn oil consistently test out better in all catigories vs dino oil ( to simplify only use info from top 5 Full Syn and top 5 dino oil from testing) btw no Honda oil on either list,
Now let me start some simple conjecture:
Honda engineers are comfy running their (lower quality) Branded dino at 8 k intervals, so by using a better quality dino oil like even the Rotella T mentioned here these same Honda engineers should easily approve 9k intervals using the better oil. Yes?
Full Syn oil consistently runs longer intervals while performing as good or more often better then similar dino's. Yes?
Now add together Honda engineered recommended 8k intervals, higher quality oil and now make it a high quality full syn oil and what intervals would you think those Honda engineers would recommend.
Just by using my simple mind, these 5 simple facts that are laided out above and the slightest amount of realistic conjecture I have some serious backing to be very comfortable changing my oil with a top 5 rated dino oil at 8k intervals.
I run Mobil 1 and am very happy with 6-8k intervals and have hit 10k once, wish I would have tested it!!!
All intervals can be adjusted up or down based on other factors like how, where, temps, how many 4th gear wheelies, etc. but in general
I consider any sub 5k interval severe over indulgence.
Peace Out and Save the Dinosaurs!
PS I'm Old and Slow but still run the piss out of my bikes and I've put over 105,000 miles on this one so far.
BR
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Recovering from shoulder surgery. :-(
BaileyrockRush2112BaileyrockDude... it was 75 F in Nashville today... what are you doing on a Winter blues oil thread???Rush2112That is really kind of my point related to 3k oil changes in general. A huge waste of money and an Excellant Marketing Champaign by the oil Co's. Let's just focus on the Honda VFR here.Switchblade2thdrOops's your that's dino..T6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
Honda Engineer's recomended 8k oil change intervals with Dino oil and if you follow any oil test reports Honda Branded Oil usually rates towards the bottom of quality list in most any oil comparo test.
Now let me put my simple mind to this issue starting only with a few facts first:
1- Honda produces high quality products
2- Honda engineers design those products
3- Honda engineers recommend 8k dino oil change intervals
4- Honda dino oil test in bottom half of quality testing(see about any test results)
5- Full Syn oil consistently test out better in all catigories vs dino oil ( to simplify only use info from top 5 Full Syn and top 5 dino oil from testing) btw no Honda oil on either list,
Now let me start some simple conjecture:
Honda engineers are comfy running their (lower quality) Branded dino at 8 k intervals, so by using a better quality dino oil like even the Rotella T mentioned here these same Honda engineers should easily approve 9k intervals using the better oil. Yes?
Full Syn oil consistently runs longer intervals while performing as good or more often better then similar dino's. Yes?
Now add together Honda engineered recommended 8k intervals, higher quality oil and now make it a high quality full syn oil and what intervals would you think those Honda engineers would recommend.
Just by using my simple mind, these 5 simple facts that are laided out above and the slightest amount of realistic conjecture I have some serious backing to be very comfortable changing my oil with a top 5 rated dino oil at 8k intervals.
I run Mobil 1 and am very happy with 6-8k intervals and have hit 10k once, wish I would have tested it!!!
All intervals can be adjusted up or down based on other factors like how, where, temps, how many 4th gear wheelies, etc. but in general
I consider any sub 5k interval severe over indulgence.
Peace Out and Save the Dinosaurs!
PS I'm Old and Slow but still run the piss out of my bikes and I've put over 105,000 miles on this one so far.
BR
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Recovering from shoulder surgery. :-(
Darn .
SwitchbladeBaileyrockDarn .Rush2112BaileyrockDude... it was 75 F in Nashville today... what are you doing on a Winter blues oil thread???Rush2112That is really kind of my point related to 3k oil changes in general. A huge waste of money and an Excellant Marketing Champaign by the oil Co's. Let's just focus on the Honda VFR here.Switchblade2thdrOops's your that's dino..T6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
Honda Engineer's recomended 8k oil change intervals with Dino oil and if you follow any oil test reports Honda Branded Oil usually rates towards the bottom of quality list in most any oil comparo test.
Now let me put my simple mind to this issue starting only with a few facts first:
1- Honda produces high quality products
2- Honda engineers design those products
3- Honda engineers recommend 8k dino oil change intervals
4- Honda dino oil test in bottom half of quality testing(see about any test results)
5- Full Syn oil consistently test out better in all catigories vs dino oil ( to simplify only use info from top 5 Full Syn and top 5 dino oil from testing) btw no Honda oil on either list,
Now let me start some simple conjecture:
Honda engineers are comfy running their (lower quality) Branded dino at 8 k intervals, so by using a better quality dino oil like even the Rotella T mentioned here these same Honda engineers should easily approve 9k intervals using the better oil. Yes?
Full Syn oil consistently runs longer intervals while performing as good or more often better then similar dino's. Yes?
Now add together Honda engineered recommended 8k intervals, higher quality oil and now make it a high quality full syn oil and what intervals would you think those Honda engineers would recommend.
Just by using my simple mind, these 5 simple facts that are laided out above and the slightest amount of realistic conjecture I have some serious backing to be very comfortable changing my oil with a top 5 rated dino oil at 8k intervals.
I run Mobil 1 and am very happy with 6-8k intervals and have hit 10k once, wish I would have tested it!!!
All intervals can be adjusted up or down based on other factors like how, where, temps, how many 4th gear wheelies, etc. but in general
I consider any sub 5k interval severe over indulgence.
Peace Out and Save the Dinosaurs!
PS I'm Old and Slow but still run the piss out of my bikes and I've put over 105,000 miles on this one so far.
BR
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Recovering from shoulder surgery. :-(
I blame guys like you and Kimbell.
Doc said I over rotated my shoulder trying to achieve 150% throttle position attempting to ride with you guys!
BaileyrockSwitchbladeBaileyrockDarn .Rush2112BaileyrockDude... it was 75 F in Nashville today... what are you doing on a Winter blues oil thread???Rush2112That is really kind of my point related to 3k oil changes in general. A huge waste of money and an Excellant Marketing Champaign by the oil Co's. Let's just focus on the Honda VFR here.Switchblade2thdrOops's your that's dino..T6 synthetic is 5w-40, the T is 15w-40 like the report specifies...
The Doc is right... Rotella T6 5w-40 is full synthetic, the Rotella T 15w-40 is dino diesel engine oil.
What XRCRIS posted was his report from a sample of Rotella T 15w-40 dino oil
Honda Engineer's recomended 8k oil change intervals with Dino oil and if you follow any oil test reports Honda Branded Oil usually rates towards the bottom of quality list in most any oil comparo test.
Now let me put my simple mind to this issue starting only with a few facts first:
1- Honda produces high quality products
2- Honda engineers design those products
3- Honda engineers recommend 8k dino oil change intervals
4- Honda dino oil test in bottom half of quality testing(see about any test results)
5- Full Syn oil consistently test out better in all catigories vs dino oil ( to simplify only use info from top 5 Full Syn and top 5 dino oil from testing) btw no Honda oil on either list,
Now let me start some simple conjecture:
Honda engineers are comfy running their (lower quality) Branded dino at 8 k intervals, so by using a better quality dino oil like even the Rotella T mentioned here these same Honda engineers should easily approve 9k intervals using the better oil. Yes?
Full Syn oil consistently runs longer intervals while performing as good or more often better then similar dino's. Yes?
Now add together Honda engineered recommended 8k intervals, higher quality oil and now make it a high quality full syn oil and what intervals would you think those Honda engineers would recommend.
Just by using my simple mind, these 5 simple facts that are laided out above and the slightest amount of realistic conjecture I have some serious backing to be very comfortable changing my oil with a top 5 rated dino oil at 8k intervals.
I run Mobil 1 and am very happy with 6-8k intervals and have hit 10k once, wish I would have tested it!!!
All intervals can be adjusted up or down based on other factors like how, where, temps, how many 4th gear wheelies, etc. but in general
I consider any sub 5k interval severe over indulgence.
Peace Out and Save the Dinosaurs!
PS I'm Old and Slow but still run the piss out of my bikes and I've put over 105,000 miles on this one so far.
BR
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Recovering from shoulder surgery. :-(
I blame guys like you and Kimbell.
Doc said I over rotated my shoulder trying to achieve 150% throttle position attempting to ride with you guys!
:goofy:
OK we figured out you put me in the hospital!
What about my Oil Logic ?
I am a 2000-3000 miles oil change guy. New Honda filter with T6 oil.
It just cheap insurance .
BaileyrockOK we figured out you put me in the hospital!
What about my Oil Logic ?
Hope you heal quick and fully...
I'm don't disagree on your oil logic, I'm collecting UOA data from Blackstone on 5w30 M1 right now and will extend the change interval as the reports indicate.
On the other hand, I won't extend it very far (>8k miles) since the bike takes only a couple qts of oil... might try changing out the oil filter and letting the oil ride on and see what the test results show. Did that on my Acura a few times and it is still running strong at >205k miles.
BaileyrockWhat about my Oil Logic ?
I agree...
My experience is that Honda can be trusted... if they recommend in
writing a 8K oil interval then it will meet and exceed your mileage
expectations because I believe after talking with the engineers at
Honda that they do thoroughly test the oil... in fact it doesn't
matter to your engines longevity if you run Dino or Synthetic... or
even 50 40 or 30 weight.... no one is wearing out their engine... but
it does matter in the amount of rear wheel HP is wasted in unnecessary
oil drag... between a 30wt and 40wt is 2 to 3 HP in unnecessary oil
drag... between a 30 and 50 is 4 to 6 HP in unnecessary oil drag...
choosing the freest flowing viscosity of 30 as prescribed by the
official Honda manual over a 40 50 is smarter because it will:
1)increase HP at the rear wheel
2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...
3)decrease over all operating temps...
4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...
[image: $(KGrHqFHJFQFH+3bLSKwBSF(pTTTDg~~60_57.J]
REDLINE,in everything with two wheels.
BusyLittleShopBaileyrockWhat about my Oil Logic ?
I agree...
WooHoo, I am somebody!
Thanks Larry!
BaileyrockBusyLittleShopBaileyrockWhat about my Oil Logic ?
I agree...
WooHoo, I am somebody!
Thanks Larry!
Is your name in the phone book?
You're welcome mighty Professor of Liquid Logic...
[image: post-3131-0-16715100-1448050657.jpg]
BusyLittleShopYou're welcome mighty Professor of Liquid Logic...
[image: attachicon.gif]BaileyRock.jpg
Nice one Larry, but that was a long time ago!
Now it's a case of JACK! :beer:
BusyLittleShopBaileyrockWhat about my Oil Logic ?
I agree...
My experience is that Honda can be trusted... if they recommend in
writing a 8K oil interval then it will meet and exceed your mileage
expectations because I believe after talking with the engineers at
Honda that they do thoroughly test the oil... in fact it doesn't
matter to your engines longevity if you run Dino or Synthetic... or
even 50 40 or 30 weight.... no one is wearing out their engine... but
it does matter in the amount of rear wheel HP is wasted in unnecessary
oil drag... between a 30wt and 40wt is 2 to 3 HP in unnecessary oil
drag... between a 30 and 50 is 4 to 6 HP in unnecessary oil drag...
choosing the freest flowing viscosity of 30 as prescribed by the
official Honda manual over a 40 50 is smarter because it will:
1)increase HP at the rear wheel
2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...
3)decrease over all operating temps...
4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...
[image: $(KGrHqFHJFQFH+3bLSKwBSF(pTTTDg~~60_57.J]
I admittedly popped in on the last page of this discussion, but I'm under the impression that the above weight oil is not good for wet clutch bike engines. "Energy conserving" circle = not for bikes I've always read.
Or should I be quiet and read the whole thread?
Edited November 21, 2015 by HughJebolzakHughJebolzakBusyLittleShopBaileyrockWhat about my Oil Logic ?
I agree...
My experience is that Honda can be trusted... if they recommend in
writing a 8K oil interval then it will meet and exceed your mileage
expectations because I believe after talking with the engineers at
Honda that they do thoroughly test the oil... in fact it doesn't
matter to your engines longevity if you run Dino or Synthetic... or
even 50 40 or 30 weight.... no one is wearing out their engine... but
it does matter in the amount of rear wheel HP is wasted in unnecessary
oil drag... between a 30wt and 40wt is 2 to 3 HP in unnecessary oil
drag... between a 30 and 50 is 4 to 6 HP in unnecessary oil drag...
choosing the freest flowing viscosity of 30 as prescribed by the
official Honda manual over a 40 50 is smarter because it will:
1)increase HP at the rear wheel
2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...
3)decrease over all operating temps...
4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...
[image: $(KGrHqFHJFQFH+3bLSKwBSF(pTTTDg~~60_57.J]
I admittedly popped in on the last page of this discussion, but I'm under the impression that the above weight oil is not good for wet clutch bike engines. "Energy conserving" circle = not for bikes I've always read.
Or should I be quiet and read the whole thread?
You have some reading to do.
HughJebolzakI admittedly popped in on the last page of this discussion, but I'm under the impression that the above weight oil is not good for wet clutch bike engines. "Energy conserving" circle = not for bikes I've always read.
Or should I be quiet and read the whole thread?
Some Manufactures warn against it and some owners are leery of it but Energy Conserving is not
additive... its an API test that is "oil MAY result is an overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as
a whole"... so there is nothing new in the oil to defeat a wet clutch... mercy!!!
Since '07 I believe, Honda went to recommending 10W-30 viscosity from 10W-40. How many of you are using 10W-30 with no problems? Seems mighty thin for a high revving engine in the hot weather of the South. It also seems arbitrary on Honda's part to do that. For those with 8th gens. what vis. are you using?
BentSince '07 I believe, Honda went to recommending 10W-30 viscosity from 10W-40. How many of you are using 10W-30 with no problems? Seems mighty thin for a high revving engine in the hot weather of the South. It also seems arbitrary on Honda's part to do that. For those with 8th gens. what vis. are you using?
No 10W-30 for me I am a T6 guy.
The VF750 manual says 10W-40 and the VFR800 Deluxe says 10-30W, so I bought 2 gallons of Amsoil 10-40 pure synthetic so I could use the same in both. Not going to worry about losing a little power to oil drag.
AllyanceThe VF750 manual says 10W-40 and the VFR800 Deluxe says 10-30W, so I bought 2 gallons of Amsoil 10-40 pure synthetic so I could use the same in both. Not going to worry about losing a little power to oil drag.
One of the things I'm wondering is if Honda tightened up tolerances on the VFR engine thus the lower viscosity oil called for by Honda in the newer VFR's.
I have a 2012 Honda car that uses the recommended 0W20, gets the snot run out of it, and it uses zero oil between long mileage oil changes.
I'm having a hard time processing light weight oil in hot weather and high rpm's for the 8th gen. There's going to be an 8th gen. in my garage soon so I need to make a decision. Objective input appreciated and yes, I hate oil threads too. :491:
Mobil 1 10-40 racing 4t in every motorcycle I own. The tolerances have not changed, just the epa mandate to achieve better fuel mileage.
I moved from the Rotella T6 5w-40 to Mobil 1 5w-30 Extended Performance due to the wear protection capability test data ranking M1 5w30 4th out of 176 oils tested.
I have a new 8th gen. being assembled from the crate tomorrow. The new 8th gen. calls for 10W-30 in it. Is there any reason 10W-40 motorcycle specific would hurt anything? 10W-30 sounds awfully thin for someone like me that rides hard in hot weather. What are you other 8th gen. owners using?
Rush2112I moved from the Rotella T6 5w-40 to Mobil 1 5w-30 Extended Performance due to the wear protection capability test data ranking M1 5w30 4th out of 176 oils tested.
Was that in a motorcycle engine or car?
Or if you were using Busy little shops numbers, from his uoa's, that show a lot of metal for a 700 mile max interval and really unsatisfactory. Yet he still spews the nonsense.
Im just wondering where your getting your information from.
BentMobil 1 4t 10-40. No problems, and can tell no difference. IMO it all boils down to epa mandate for fuel economyI have a new 8th gen. being assembled from the crate tomorrow. The new 8th gen. calls for 10W-30 in it. Is there any reason 10W-40 motorcycle specific would hurt anything? 10W-30 sounds awfully thin for someone like me that rides hard in hot weather. What are you other 8th gen. owners using?
spud786Or if you were using Busy little shops numbers, from his uoa's, that show a lot of metal for a 700 mile max interval and really unsatisfactory. Yet he still spews the nonsense.
Negative... Busy Little Shop numbers are satisfactory...
Quote Blackstone Labs...
LARRY: We admit, we haven't seen a lot of engines of this type, so our universal averages may still change
a little over time as we see more samples come in. That said, yours is fine compared to the samples we
have seen, with wear metals in good proportion and no signs of problems.
LARRY: This is another very nice sample for your Honda. Metals are about the same as last time, with just
minor fluctuations here and there. Nothing excessive, though, so there isn't anything in these numbers that
screams "problem" to us.
Quote abycat
"Looks pretty good. I'm not an amsoil fan but the Mobil looks like it does a bit better job"Quote CT8
"Price is the killer on the boutique oils. Not much difference and both kept the parts separated."
BentI have a new 8th gen. being assembled from the crate tomorrow. The new 8th gen. calls for 10W-30 in it. Is there any reason 10W-40 motorcycle specific would hurt anything? 10W-30 sounds awfully thin for someone like me that rides hard in hot weather. What are you other 8th gen. owners using?
Honda knows their sh*t... thin is in thick is out...
If we analyze the actual numbers between 30 and 40 weight at operating
temp of 212F we note the difference in viscosity is only 2.6 Cts...
thats not 2.6 Cts thinner or thicker... the measurement is 2.6 Cts in
flow... although 2.6 Cts more flow increases the amount of HP at the
rear wheel... 2.6 more flow doesn't risk increase wear... our modern
engines protected by modern oils don't operate with in a 2.6 Cts range
of risk...
Honda specs a 30w over a 40w because it will:
1)increase 2 to 3 HP at the rear wheel
2)quicken the throttle response coming out of the corners...
3)decrease over all operating temps...
4)increase the oil flow at the critical bearings...
Quote 540Rat
Thicker oil DOES NOT automatically provide better wear protection
than thinner oils. Extensive “dynamic wear testing under load” of over
130 motor oils, has shown that the base oil and its additive package
“as a whole”, is what determines an oil’s wear protection capability,
NOT its viscosity. For example, some 5W30 oils have proven to provide
OUTSTANDING wear protection, while some 15W50 oils have only been able
to provide MODEST wear protection. So, do not run thicker oil under
the false assumption that it can provide better wear protection for
our engines.
spud786Rush2112I moved from the Rotella T6 5w-40 to Mobil 1 5w-30 Extended Performance due to the wear protection capability test data ranking M1 5w30 4th out of 176 oils tested.
Was that in a motorcycle engine or car?
...
Neither... motor oil Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load at operating oil temp of 230°F
The Wear Protection reference categories are:
• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection.
• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection.
• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection.
• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection.
• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection
Rank #4. 5W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic = 117,799 psi
… also tested this oil at the much higher temperature of 275°F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. And this oil did have a disappointing 36% drop in capability. At that reduced value down to 75,861 psi, this much hotter and thinner oil dropped down to the GOOD Wear Protection Category. You can avoid such a drop in capability by keeping the oil at a more reasonable cooler temperature.
… 138 oils tested later
Rank #142. 5W40 SHELL ROTELLA T6 Diesel Oil, synthetic = 67,804 psi
So, even at 275°F M1 5W30 has better wear protection than 5w40 T6 at 230°F
This is why I switched.
When I was following BR home from the AMA Superbike races in Birmingham my bike coolant temp peaked at a blinking 250°F at a light after we got gas... I was running T6 at the time and engine oil is usually ~20° or more hotter than your coolant, so after reading this data I'm afraid of how low my wear protection dropped on that trip.
Edited February 6, 2016 by Rush2112, so after reading this data I'm afraid of how low my wear protection dropped on that trip.>>>>>>>
My experience, the difference between a 5w40 and a 20w50 on (max water temps) in 100 degree heat, is one or 2 degree max. Actually to close to call as any effect at all. My vfr never sees more than 227 dgree max ever, there was one time I saw 230 degree, just a non issue.
However I tend to run standard coolant (prestone 60 to 70% mix), where many riders are trying various concoctions, from engine ice , to water wetter and water.
Just an non issue for me, ever, I run the same stuff in my KTM race motor also, where others seem to always have issues with boil over, although good mapping or jetting plays a role too in motor heat.
When my KTM 500 single cylinder was new *(less than 3,000 miles), I produced less metal in a uoa with more mileage than BLS's 50,000 plus v4 , that is damn near funny. Yet he continues his quest. to enlighten.
However my experience with light weights and high sustained rpms , light weight oils show earlier cam lobe wear , and the reason I don't run 30 weights in High Rpm Motorcycles.
Edited February 6, 2016 by spud786It was 104F outside temp on the ride down... I think it was 102F the day the bike started overheating stopped at a light on the ride back, coolant didn't puke out, everything was filled to spec with approved fluids. I had it idling while BR gassed up because I was having battery issues and was trying to make it back to Nashville. Jumped back on the highway and it cooled back to normal operating temps... normal for 100+F riding. My concern was the low wear protection rating for Rotella T6 5w40 at 230F, I don't know how low it got with an oil temp 275F or higher when my coolant reached 250F... it was changed after the trip and I didn't get a UOA. M1 5w30 still measures good wear protection even at 275*F, an added level of security and piece of mind.
BLS runs mobil 5w30 , Im kinda surprised people didn't catch on, when those uoa's were posted , and how little time he had on the oil, A normal timed oil change, his numbers would have been ugly.
They didn't look to bad , for 500 to 700 miles(that actually made them look better than they really were).
so I've always run hondaline blend w/o moly, recently started using mobile m110 filter (larger than the m108 use the same on my car), would it be wrong to try a full syn now? be curious to see if it shifts any different....
Its fine to switch back and forth. If you want to try full synthetic go for it, if you don't like how it shifts or can't justify the cost you can switch back at any time.
Mobil-1 4T 10-40 and OEM Honda filter on my '04 - changed every 4K miles
Just changed from dinosaur oil at around 2600 miles on the eighth gen. to Mobil 1 metric motorcycle oil and WOW does it ever run quieter and shifter butter smoother. Same has happened to every bike I went to synthetic on. I changed the dino oil out early because I got tired of thinking about it. If it isn't broken in now, it never will be. It has been put through it's paces. Yeah, oil threads! BR's favorites......
I understand that on the back of the oil container, in the little round service service designation tatoo, you want SN or SM.... Newer SN designated oils are backwards compatible with type SM...
and No "energy conserving" designation in the bottom of the rocker, as it works better w/ the wet clutches..
All the rest of the bs is marketing hyperbole.
Simple !
[image: 20190506_174943.jpg]
jimbob, 5/7/2019 at 1:46 PMNewer SN designated oils are backwards compatible with type SM...
and No "energy conserving" designation in the bottom of the rocker, as it works better w/ the wet clutches..
Negative... SN are not backwards compatible with SM... SN is new and improved over SM...
SM - Introduced November 2004, improved oxidation resistance, deposit
protection and wear protection, also better low temperature
performance over the life of the oil compared to previous categories.
SN - Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to
provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more
stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility.
Energy Conserving is not additive... its an API test that this "oil
may result is an overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a
whole"...
Technically speaking Energy Conserving tested oil can not defeat a
wet clutch in good working order... what is confusing the issue is the
fact that all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life
and start to slip... no one complains about clutch slip when the bike
is new... but on about the 27K to 57K range is when contaminants may
build up to point where the clutch begins to loose its grip... this is
usually discovered by the owner during WFO (Wide Fooking Open)throttle
like at a track day... in error one can blame the oil but its really
the contaminants on the clutch plates...
So the notion that we should stay away from EC oil is on shaky
ground... fact is I've been using 5/30 Energy Conserving Mobil 1
since 98 in Mr.RC45 with no clutch slipping due to oil being certified
10% freer flowing than non EC oil... and we're talking about Honda's
homologated racer with a tall first gear good for 90mph that's known
to incinerate clutch plates...
[image: vmSFajJ.jpg]
Hello fellow VFR fans,just for reference,when I bought my 95 FS the previous owner couldn't remember or be specific about which Oil he had previously used,which gave me an open book really on choices for future changes ( I would have continued to use the same product if I had known what it was).When the inevitable Oil Cooler Feed Pipes ( one of them) started to crack resulting in a leak which luckily was picked up during its MOT,i bought a second hand pair and did an Oil change when I swapped them over.I previously had a Suzuki SV650 and had bought some Amsoil 20w50 fully syth which I had read made for smoother Gear Changes,but had sold the bike before I got to use it.So logically I used this Oil for the VFR,i replaced the Filter (oem I think) with a K&N one,also bought a Magnetic Sump Plug and hey - presto the change was done.The original Sump Plug was tidy,no signs of stripped threads etc and looked like it had seen a lot of Spanner/Socket use ( good sign).Years later everything is still good,doesnt burn any from what I can tell,no Mayonaise traces despite winter lay-ups in the Cold and usually Wet UK climate,colour doesn't look overly black even now.With whats happening at the moment and less riding time available im determined to change it this season,i will use the same Oil again.
PaulT68, 3/30/2020 at 5:56 AMHello fellow VFR fans,just for reference,when I bought my 95 FS the previous owner couldn't remember or be specific about which Oil he had previously used,which gave me an open book really on choices for future changes ( I would have continued to use the same product if I had known what it was).When the inevitable Oil Cooler Feed Pipes ( one of them) started to crack resulting in a leak which luckily was picked up during its MOT,i bought a second hand pair and did an Oil change when I swapped them over.I previously had a Suzuki SV650 and had bought some Amsoil 20w50 fully syth which I had read made for smoother Gear Changes,but had sold the bike before I got to use it.So logically I used this Oil for the VFR,i replaced the Filter (oem I think) with a K&N one,also bought a Magnetic Sump Plug and hey - presto the change was done.The original Sump Plug was tidy,no signs of stripped threads etc and looked like it had seen a lot of Spanner/Socket use ( good sign).Years later everything is still good,doesnt burn any from what I can tell,no Mayonaise traces despite winter lay-ups in the Cold and usually Wet UK climate,colour doesn't look overly black even now.With whats happening at the moment and less riding time available im determined to change it this season,i will use the same Oil again.
If you haven't read about the many near death experiences caused directly from K&N filters, you need to look it up. Not kidding on that.
Hell with the oil issue. I have yet to hear of an oil related engine failure in over 20 years of reading VFR forums. Just use oil in them and change it when you feel like it. DO NOT use K&N filters. Look it up.
3 hours ago, BentI have yet to hear of an oil related engine failure in over 20 years of reading VFR forums.
There was a Dutch owner a few years ago who bought a second hand, high mileage Vtec. Took it into Germany (no speedlimit on motorways) and after a few long high speed runs the engine went BOOOMMM.....
When asked, the PO conceded hehad never changed oil, merely topped it up when required. Not an oil related falure therefor but a moron related one....
4 hours ago, BentIf you haven't read about the many near death experiences caused directly from K&N filters, you need to look it up. Not kidding on that.
Hell with the oil issue. I have yet to hear of an oil related engine failure in over 20 years of reading VFR forums. Just use oil in them and change it when you feel like it. DO NOT use K&N filters. Look it up.
Hiya,thanks I am aware that there are issues with K&N Oil Filters,ive seen a few Videos etc,but it was installed prior to my gaining the knowledge,all I can do before each ride is visually inspect it for any problems.I have a Hi-Flo Filter for the next change but might substitute it for an OEM,with the lockdown a change will be happening soon.
There was a K&N safety recall back in 2016 for certain K&N oil
filters, Part Nos. KN-204 (black) and KN-204C (chrome), manufactured
between March 1, 2016 and September 30, 2016 can leak oil at the area
where a nut (intended for use to remove the oil filter during routine
oil changes) is welded to the end of the filter. If there is such a
leak, oil could come into contact with the rear tire or rear brake of
the motorcycle on which the filter is installed. If this were to
occur, it could lead to a loss of control or a crash. Therefore, K&N
offered to replace the affected oil filters at no charge...
I continue to employ a K&N 303 filter on Mr.RC45 and I have used OEM and High Flow with equal satisfaction...
[image: KN303a.jpg]
Oil Filter Comparison...
[youtube]
^ I had one of those.
Luckily enough I got my bike serviced just as it began to leak. And thanks to this site and its posting of a recall from K & N I got a free filter as the mechanic and Australian K & N rep. knew nothing of the recall.
Hiflo HF204's, my oil filter of choice since 2005, 6 and 8gen compatible, definetly no removal nut type.
Out of interest what if anything is the problem with oem oil filters ?
2 hours ago, Philois1984Out of interest what if anything is the problem with oem oil filters ?
Absolutely nothing at all. Just means you've got to visit a Honda dealership, or have them ordered. I find most motorcycle shops and motorcycle accessory shops all carry HiFlo, even my local general motorcycle service shop (Slipstream motorcycles) has them. During the warranty periods with my bikes I've used the OEM's after that I just find it easier to grab the HiFlo. Had no issue with either.
Cheers.
i seriously doubt a hiflo meets honda standards. if you get what u pay for, you're getting less quality with hiflo, made in the 3rd world to their standards.
Just to be clear I don’t have any issue with non oem oil filters I was simply asking if there was any reason people didn’t use oem ie Honda filters. Grum answered my question clearly, simply a matter of convenience.
5 hours ago, squirrelbrainsi seriously doubt a hiflo meets honda standards. if you get what u pay for, you're getting less quality with hiflo.
Reckon that's a purely subjective comment and you seem to be only basing it on what you pay for it! You may be right, but without direct test results between the two, you're only guessing there might be a quality difference.
There is not much of a price difference in Australia between the OEM and a HiFlo anyway, it's just so much easier for me in procuring the HiFlo.
HiFlo are a TUV spec filter, being type tested and production monitored to meet or exceed all OE specs. Myself and many others have been using HiFlo for years without any issues. As always YMMV.
Cheers.
Philois1984, 3/31/2020 at 8:05 PMOut of interest what if anything is the problem with oem oil filters ?
No problems...
Honda OEM filter are manufactured by Filtech, an American subsidiary
of the Toyo Roki Manufacturing Company. Filtech has been manufacturing
filters for HMC since '87 take a look inside and note the quality is about the
same as K&N or HiFlo...
I have cut many a filter apart to see quality of design/construction... also lots of internet cutaways. My unscientific small list I would avoid... K&N for reasons stated, Fram ExtraGard (OK but UltraGard or their other higher lines are good), Supertech (Walmart brand, used to be excellent, made by Champion, but latest are cheap crap), Purolator Pure One. The Pure One is too good, filter media is 20 microns which reduces flow by ~2+ gpm. Purolator also does not recommend them for bikes... you want flow in a high performance engine. Mostly when cold, if flow is restricted, the relief valve can go into bypass, meaning partial unfiltered. Most filters are 30-ish microns, Purolator Classic is too. Bosch owns Purolator, so essentially the same, made in the same factory. There are stainless washable re-usables that claim highest flow, but they filter at 36 microns. Good for a race engine with clean oil IMHO, but no need for us street guys, your choice, you can work out the economics and inconvenience of washing.
Cost of OEM's is way high here, US guys seem to be able to buy multiples for decent money, comparable to other brands. Mobil1 an excellent filter.
Your oil is changed frequently enough it really doesn't get that dirty. Most bike manufacturers say new filter every other oil change. Stress less, ride more, the aftermarket filters are mostly fine except for my list above. All my opinion of course, you have to do what lets you sleep at night, but you should.
Just a wee story about an OEM Yamaha filter... many defend the OEM, no problem with me, except that one. It was a blob of compressed I dunno what, did the job, but once you saw that, you'd more than likely be turned off. The newer ones are just fine (all made by Denso), have traditional paper/synthetic media. Doesn't matter who makes the OEMs, it matters what specification they were given.
I use OEM oil filters, Honda uses them, they are easy to find, including, non Honda service and repair shops and I know what I am getting. Once again, the only serious issue I've ever heard of was from many K&N oil filters that have very suddenly "dumped" oil all over the road that the rear tire rolls right over with potential catastrophic results for the rider. If not catastrophic results, then wherever it happens, there you are. The sudden dumping is due to the faulty welded nut on the end of the filter. VFRWORLD has good pictures of it with results on the road. Seeing is believing.
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