Now this is funny. I go to Walmart and pick up some body supplies i need for the fairings on my bike and i stop back by the magazine rack to pick up a nice bike mag. As im standing there checking things out i mention something about my bike to my room mate and out of no where this guy behind says "You like bikes?"
So im thinkin..ooookkkk..."Yeah i like bikes im restoring one right now."
So he then proceeded to talk and said that he runs a headlight shop up in West Palm Beach that does Projection headlamp and HID conversions. HE then mentioned to me that they have been doing cars for a while using mercedes projectors and hid kits. And he was interested in getting into motorcycles.
I told him that sounded pretty damn interesting as the lighting on bikes sucks as it is so anything has to be better. And his work is all custom work so he will take your stock housing and modify it for the projector. So everything is still a bolt on situation.
Usually he said they charge $500-$600 for cars but he said since i would basically be prototyping things for them then i could get in on it for about $150-$200 and then afterwards they could probably offer the conversion for about $300 to people. They just want to basically see how much work will be involved.
In my opinion i think it is kick ass my only concern is should i just get the projectors with regular bulbs? I really have no idea what kind of amp load a HID kit would put on a motorcycle. He said they use all Bosch HIDs so i know its good stuff.
Any thoughts about the HID kit on the bike as to reference the electrical system on the bike??
As far as I understand them HIDs require less current to operate then Halogen bulbs. (and because of this they run MUCH cooler)
They require a very high voltage (20,000 volts is put out by the BOSCH ballast on my Jetta, very low current of course) arc to turn the Xenon crystal into a gas and then after that it requires very little current to sustain the arc across the gas.
Maybe someone can give actual numbers but that is how I understand it.
In any case HIDs on the VFR would be awesome, I sure miss my Jetta's HIDs at night...
I definately think you should do it. If you search around you'll find lots of people have updated their bikes to HID, but usually just using an H4 type insert that plugs into their existing housing. If I understand, the guy you talked to puts in a whole new reflector, not just an HID capsule in an H4 slot. This would work much better, with the reflector being designed to focus the HID light.
Post lots of pics, and also get us a group buy discount!
Well thats the plan my friend. He does actually install a new projection sphere looking thing in a stock housing. The only thing that sucks is that my housing is kind of beat and i need to fix a couple tabs and would have to waste all that money on a shitty housing. But now one seems to have a good housing for a decent price. Guess im gonna be forced to buy a new one.
But as soon as he does it and he does the job well then i will be getting into group buy stuff. I already mentioned that to him and he was willing to do it. We will see. Ill probably go check out his shop next week and see what it looks like.
Maybe if you guys who have your bikes apart can do me a favor is post pics of your headlights from a top and front angle so i can see the width and depth to give the guy an idea of what he has to work with on several different era VFRs.
fortknox82, Apr 22 2005, 03:00 PMNow this is funny. I go to Walmart and pick up some body supplies i need for the fairings on my bike and i stop back by the magazine rack to pick up a nice bike mag. As im standing there checking things out i mention something about my bike to my room mate and out of no where this guy behind says "You like bikes?"
So im thinkin..ooookkkk..."Yeah i like bikes im restoring one right now."
So he then proceeded to talk and said that he runs a headlight shop up in West Palm Beach that does Projection headlamp and HID conversions. HE then mentioned to me that they have been doing cars for a while using mercedes projectors and hid kits. And he was interested in getting into motorcycles.
I told him that sounded pretty damn interesting as the lighting on bikes sucks as it is so anything has to be better. And his work is all custom work so he will take your stock housing and modify it for the projector. So everything is still a bolt on situation.
Usually he said they charge $500-$600 for cars but he said since i would basically be prototyping things for them then i could get in on it for about $150-$200 and then afterwards they could probably offer the conversion for about $300 to people. They just want to basically see how much work will be involved.
In my opinion i think it is kick ass my only concern is should i just get the projectors with regular bulbs? I really have no idea what kind of amp load a HID kit would put on a motorcycle. He said they use all Bosch HIDs so i know its good stuff.
Any thoughts about the HID kit on the bike as to reference the electrical system on the bike??
Let me ask you something,...... If he is going to use your bike as a mule, to develop a line (kit) he can sell to others (and make money), you should see if he will do yours for free.............. it's pretty standard to not charge if you use someones bike to develop a product you can in turn sell for a profit.
As for the HID kit, I can't give you an intelligent answer on that.....but I am sure someone here on the board who knows about the electronics can
More then likey hes just charging for the parts itself. Even a used HID projector, ballast and igniter go for the price he said. The rest would just be labor and additional parts. Its not as simple as taking out a old light and putting in a new one. The owner still needs to be able to adjust the level of the light as before without having to take the whole light assemble apart.
I say go for it. I do my own HID conversions, and there really is no going back to halogen once you have a true HID system (not one of those crappy drop in bulb "conversion" kits).
I also think this should be developed for a model that he might have a chance to sell it for.. something newer than the 93 that is listed in your "garage" happy.gif
my last bike had projecter headlights and they sucked bad,the old h4 bulbs on my 04vetch maybe a step back but they sure do put out the light better than any projector beam headlight ever could.
Well thats pretty much what he is doing is charging me for parts. And yes i do realize he would want to work with newer bikes but everything he does is pretty much one off work anyways. He just wants to do the job more for the sense of he can say that he can do motorcycles and add that to his line up.
And then if anyone here was interested and the quality of his work was good then they could just send it in and have it back in about a week or so no matter what bike they have.
HID drop in kits (HID bulbs with standard bases [h4, H7, etc]), yes.
As to the legality of a full HID retrofit (meaning a complete DOT approved light assembly placed inside your vehicles stock light housing).... not really legal either, since it hasnt gone through testing to see if it meets DOT lighting standard and get thier "stamp of approval" (although some argue DOT housing + DOT light = DOT compliant).
But, the average joe wouldnt know what vehicles come stock with HID or not. And a well designed, good looking retrofit probably wouldnt get any more of a glance, other then people wondering how a older vehicle has such great lighting.
snake, Apr 23 2005, 04:16 AMmy last bike had projecter headlights and they sucked bad,the old h4 bulbs on my 04vetch maybe a step back but they sure do put out the light better than any projector beam headlight ever could.
Those were almost 100% Halogen based projector lights. Those old halogen projectors really didnt put out any decent lighting. Some newer Halogen projectors put out good lighting, but still not as great as most modern HID based lighting.
fortknox82, Apr 22 2005, 10:36 PMWell thats the plan my friend. He does actually install a new projection sphere looking thing in a stock housing. The only thing that sucks is that my housing is kind of beat and i need to fix a couple tabs and would have to waste all that money on a shitty housing. But now one seems to have a good housing for a decent price. Guess im gonna be forced to buy a new one.
But as soon as he does it and he does the job well then i will be getting into group buy stuff. I already mentioned that to him and he was willing to do it. We will see. Ill probably go check out his shop next week and see what it looks like.
Maybe if you guys who have your bikes apart can do me a favor is post pics of your headlights from a top and front angle so i can see the width and depth to give the guy an idea of what he has to work with on several different era VFRs.
Hey, I'm in West Palm and I really need a headlight! goofy.gif Not sure what kind of fabrication would be required. My entire headlight housing needs to be replaced, though. I've been toying with the idea of fiberglassing the entire front and doing something with smaller round dual lights. I've got a '99. I'd be interested in getting together with you if possible to check out the shop. See what could be done to mine...
Hey Kev take a picture of that headlight housing and shoot it over to me. Id like to see how bad it is wrecked: fortknox82@yahoo.com
Im going to try and touch base with the guy over the weekend and see if i can get up there this week sometime. What time are you usually available to run out??
Well its seems the biggest problem is that we have so many different headlights through out the years that no one really cared if i got a headlight for a 93 VFR done. Seems everyone wants newer stuff.
Im still more than willing to do the leg work but i need a headlight to work with. Or at least if you want a newer headlight i will needs pics of it all the way around with length and width and height measurements.
I would NOT do HID on a motorcycle. HID lighting does NOT soak up bumps in the road like halogen does. At night and especially in foul weather, you will be missing your halogens. Just my 2 cents worth.
This has been covered here before, but for clarification.
1. HID is NOT legal in all states, check with your DMV rules, but HAS received the DOT approval as OEM equipment.
2. HID replaces your stock halogen bulb (usually BOTH low and high beam, unless your have 4 headlights, aka VTEC) with a new HID bulb, with the required ballast and ignitor. Takes less amps to run. Say you had the stock 55 watt H7 bulb, you now have an H7 bulb with about 300% more useable light (with the correct 4800K bulb) at about 1/2 to 1/3 the amps.
3. This replaces your ENTIRE bulb set, you have NO high beam, so figure something else for highs. Unless you get the "Bi-Xenon" reflector assembly, ala BMW. Very expensive and complicated.
So, more light, very expensive, complicated, less amps, and MAY have to add another set of lights. They usually recommend the Silverstars for high beams to complement the light from the HID lows.
And Projector are whole new lens assemblies.
Me, Silverstars are sufficient, with the H7 to H4 adapters, properly bent to locate the filament in the right position so high and low beam are where they should be.
Search here for similar projects and pics of light patterns.
And I'm with you on the prototyping. He's using my bike to develop his product, I want mine for free, especially if he's using pics of my bike as a advertising for his work.
I just want clarify your clarification. I do this stuff for a living. This is all worst case of course, and like speeding, you first have to get caught.
It is unlawful (federal law, not states) to replace halogen headlight bulbs with HID capsules on any vehicle that did not come with them from the factory. This is per Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard FMVSS108.
Non-DOT (or ECE in EU) lighting cannot be installed in any motor vehicle for use on public roads. In the EU, safety inspections look for CE mark on the lighting. Some states do annual inspections and may look for the DOOT rating. If you cause an accident while riding behind unappoved lighting, your insurance company may deny your claim.
Companies that sell and/or install HID upgrade kits could be prosecuted (many have) under this law. A fine of up to $10K per instance can be levied against the seller. Many sellers have ceased doing business or are offshore. The claim "off-road use only" on a seller's packaging or advertising does not reduce their liability if caught; it is just a sales tool.
HID systems consume approximatey 35W (3 Amps) continuous once the starting cycle has completed. For the first 10 to 30 seconds after ignition, expect a current draw of 10 to 15 Amps, decreasing as the arc stabilizes. Because of the slow startup, HID can make a poor choice for a high beam. A 55W H4 bulb consumes approximately 4.5 amps continuous, but not "1/2 to 1/3 the amps".
If your wiring harness has problems (unrelated) and the dealer finds HID mods, you may be denied the warranty repair. Just food for thought that's germain to the VFR.
Not all of the extra light is "useable". Many halogen based systems produce a lot of glare and off-axis color when an HID capsule is installed. We've all been visually assaulted by boy-racer cars with cheap HID upgrades that throw a lot of glare and dazzle in our faces. The higher color termperatures (7000+ K) bulbs can be really offensive and will draw the ire of the local sherrif. Also, a good deal of the energy is outside the visible spectrum and passes thru the aluminized plastic reflector, so what reaches the road can be significantly less than the claimed output. Most HID based automotive lights are projector type with magnesium reflectors to properly focus and reflect the beam.
I find the stock (VTEC) lighting to be fairly good when good bulbs are used. The OSRAM SilverStar (not Sylvania) are very good, as are the Philips Vision +50 bulbs.
pg
Paul Geller Ducati Designs, LLC
vfrrider, Dec 23 2005, 11:47 AMThis has been covered here before, but for clarification.
1. HID is NOT legal in all states, check with your DMV rules, but HAS received the DOT approval as OEM equipment.
2. HID replaces your stock halogen bulb (usually BOTH low and high beam, unless your have 4 headlights, aka VTEC) with a new HID bulb, with the required ballast and ignitor. Takes less amps to run. Say you had the stock 55 watt H7 bulb, you now have an H7 bulb with about 300% more useable light (with the correct 4800K bulb) at about 1/2 to 1/3 the amps.
3. This replaces your ENTIRE bulb set, you have NO high beam, so figure something else for highs. Unless you get the "Bi-Xenon" reflector assembly, ala BMW. Very expensive and complicated.
So, more light, very expensive, complicated, less amps, and MAY have to add another set of lights. They usually recommend the Silverstars for high beams to complement the light from the HID lows.
And Projector are whole new lens assemblies.
Me, Silverstars are sufficient, with the H7 to H4 adapters, properly bent to locate the filament in the right position so high and low beam are where they should be.
Search here for similar projects and pics of light patterns.
And I'm with you on the prototyping. He's using my bike to develop his product, I want mine for free, especially if he's using pics of my bike as a advertising for his work.
Larry VFRrider idea3.gif
End of thread · 20 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 21 Feb 2006