We set Axman's ride height today.

Based on my question that I posted a few days ago http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.p...topic=17592&hl= regarding 6th Gen's correct stock fork height (did we EVER get it right?), we made changes to Axman Pat's bike, to try to get it to turn.

First, we checked the fork height, and this setting was "out of the crate" from Honda, so take it for what it's worth: From the flat of the tube cap to the top of the triple was....44mm right side, and a hair under 45 on the left side. Hmmmmm......

So, we set both forks at exactly 45mm, set the clipons "wide" against the lugs, and went for a ride, me on his bike and he on my 5th Gen.

He IMMEDIATELY noticed how much better my bike turns, as I have my forks set at 49mm. I mean, he was amazed how much better handling my bike is. [please note--Pat is a superior, experienced track rider.....he's having trouble with his bike drifting sideways and wallowing in tight, fast turns....sheeeesh!] As for me on his bike....I couldn't get it to turn at all, running wide all over the place....which isn't necessarily unusual for me dry.gif , but this was BAD. We swapped back and forth a few times, just to make sure the wonderful Yellow paint on my bike wasn't fooling us....sort of a visual placebo effect! tongue.gif

So, back to the Not So Busy Little Shop, where we put 4mm of shims on the rear shock bracket, as has been described here many times [see HS's How-To], because Pat wanted to increase his ground clearance [he's the peg-scraping bastid, you know], instead of lose it by raising the fork tubes (i.e. lowering the triples and thus the front of the bike).

Note: We removed the black plastic right-side cover that hides the rear brake reservoir (held by 3 black plastic clips), allowing easy access to the shock bolt/bracket underneath the frame member. We simply put the two shims in place with mechanical fingers...nothing to it. Otherwise it's a very tough thing to do with this cover in place.

The arse-end of his bike now sits much higher, like maybe 1.5-2 inches or so. Wow! The normal horizontal line of the bottom of the fairing (under the motor) now goes "uphill" towards the rear a little bit. We checked sag....about 26mm, but he's two-up fairly often, and perfers that for track use anyway.

So, back out for a test....and it handled much better, but still not as nifty-nimble as my bike. I'd say it was a 65% improvement or so as compared to mine...we'll let Pat chime in with his opinion.

I think it needs to have the front dropped a few millimeters...2 or 3....but Pat wants to hammer some of his favorite, well-known curves and maybe a track day first, hunting for headshake or other bad behavior before deciding if he wants to drop the forks for more turn-in. Today's changes might solve his drifting, wallowing, sliding, pogo-ing, chattering tire, front-end washout problems. I wish I had these problems. pissed.gif

With the help of Samuel (another member) we set my sag today. I used the info from HS plus a link I found on this forum. The front ended up at 35MM and the rear 30MM. I was only able to put a few miles on it after this adjustment but I can honestly say I feel the difference. I must say though, when I wash my car it feels faster. So the question becomes, is it real or in my mind. In a few days I will know that answer.

Thanks Trace for spending most of the day helping adjust the suspension on my bike.What a difference, i went and hit some on ramps and off ramps on the way home and does it ever turn easier. At speed it drops in really nice and holds a line very well. Still handels heaver than your 5 gen. at low speed. Also the bike seems more stable at lower speed. I dont know if you noticed but before we did adjustments the bike seemed to fight you compared to yours. Also the bike seemes to have less dive and the brakes seem more planted. I will know more after some hard riding tomorrow morning. thanks once again.

axman, Jan 7 2006, 07:12 PMI will know more after some hard riding tomorrow morning.

I hate you. goofy.gif

axman, Jan 7 2006, 07:12 PMI will know more after some hard riding tomorrow morning.

Did you notice any difference?

JDP, Jan 9 2006, 07:25 PMDid you notice any difference?

Axman is berserk about the difference, and I have pictures of his tires AND the toe of his boot to prove it. I'll post them tomorow. He was doing 145 mph sweepers early Sunday morning...while two up. He said "It's a different bike". No kidding. I rode with him for a few hours on Sunday, both two-up. He goes the speed limit about 90 percent of the time....and then hammers it when he knows of or sees a turn coming up! laugh.gif

Again, we'll let him post in and give his opinion, but he's pretty happy with it.

Sooooo, Trace. When I'm in Jacksonville Beach around Easter you can hook me up too? rolleyes.gif

Just kidding but it would be nice to meet up! I know it's a few months away but PM me.

theoxmole, Jan 9 2006, 09:29 PMSooooo, Trace.  When I'm in Jacksonville Beach around Easter you can hook me up too? 
Just kidding but it would be nice to meet up!  I know it's a few months away but PM me.

Yep. Be glad to tinker your bike! If you're bikin' here, be rest assured that you have my Not So Busy Leetle Shop at your disposal, just a very few miles south of Jax Beach, and I'm right on A1A! We certainly MUST meet up and sip a few ciders and sparkling waters. beer.gif beer.gif

I'll PM you my local info. Hope I'm in town when you are! (I travel a lot)

I like to refer to ride hieght adjustments as somthing similar to holding a magnifing glass into the sun and focusing it to maximum ant killing intensity (handling in the case of the vfr) it is quite easy to over do it and have it handle negatively. The vfr is very very sensitive to slight changes in sag and or changes in ride hieght, shimming, or lowering of the triple tree on the forks. Doing both could quite simply have you over steering and really making it handle like crap.

How do I know - I did it of course!! 10mm lower in the front and 2 shims in the back had it handling like a pig at low speed. I have since removed the shims and moved the forks back to 5mm. I have found that its just quick enough in the corners but still stable at slow speeds and highway speeds.

I should mention that shimming will make it steer quicker however raising the center of mass/gravity makes it MORE difficult to flick quickly side to side, so in a quick set of tight turns it will want to turn faster but the transitions of swinging the bike over from side to side are a bit slower. It is in fact a pendulum effect, much like a metronome by moving the wieght further out on the arm the metronome moves slower. Same effect happens with shimming the shock.

I have always been a proponent of having your ride hieght at just the right hieght to prevent the hard parts from grinding on the pavement and no higher, as this metronome effect happens as you raise the center of gravity. Of course lowering the trees in the forks has both the effect of making the steering quicker but flicking the bike over is also quicker - just you now have to consider that you may grind off your pegs in hard turns now or scrape a header.

9 times out of ten handling issues can be addressed by simply setting the sag correctly and not delving into shimming or lowering forks in the first place, like I said before small adjustments in sag equate to significant changes in handling on the vfr. simply cause the vfr is so raked out to begin with, its designed to be neutral, but most of the time riders ride with with the sag unequal front to back and it can be felt when ridden.

1) start by setting your sag equal front to back, say 35mm sag on both sides then adjust the front sag down a bit till you get the steering you want. Adjust the preload and measure the sag till both sides are equal, the front and back both have 120mm of travel

2) Lower the front preload if you want quicker steering, if you start having parts scraping then try raising the rear instead set the front back to original and increase the preload in back.

3) If you cannot reach the 30-35mm target sag without maximizing your preload settings any further then stronger springs might be in order.

4) you reach the 30-35 mm sag target front and back and want to keep the suspension in that range and need quicker steering then lower the front by 5mm, this should be enough to clear all hard parts and give you the quick steering you want. Or adjust it further on the trees till you feel right.

YOU MUST BE MINDFUL of sag and overall ride hieght, dont just start shimming without first adjusting sag.

in the how to forum is a tutorial on sag.

JDP, Jan 9 2006, 07:25 PMDid you notice any difference?

The difference is night and day, almost like a different bike. Like Trace said, I dont do high speed top end runs unless i am out of populated areas since alot of local police officers know me well and im getting close to running out of free passes. Idid some hard riding today on some curves and the adjustments seem to have taken care of most the issues i was having. Traces bike still turns in faster but if i lowerd the front i would really drag. Also my bike was unstable even at low speed and now it just seems more planted in all situations. Next test is the track and that will tell all.

Thanks for the scoop on sag, HS. Many of us would be trial and error dummies without VFRD.

Jeff

Thanks for that discussion on height/handling, Slammer. I'm getting ready to install my Penske, and then the whole subject of "ride height" (since top spacers must be made and the height is adjustable at the threaded lower end) is moved to a whole new......height...er, level! A fella could get COMPLETELY out of whack, since tiny changes make such a big diference. If I don't make some careful measurements, I could be making it a tankslapper as I pull out of my driveway for the first test ride!

Here's some pics of Axman's parts that touch the ground. This was two-up, mind you! Check out that feathered edge at the sidewall.

[image: user posted image]
Axman Rear Tire.


The scuffs on the front "strip" are new.

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Axman Front Tire.JPG


He has new boots coming from New Enough....

[image: user posted image]
Axman Shoe.