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FrankenMonkeyViffer

50 posts Started 16 Jan 2006 Last recovered post 26 Jan 2006 Wayback Machine snapshot 21 Feb 2006

#1
Well gang, having a sufficient amount of parts amassed, I believed it was time to actually start work on this project. Before we get started, I'd like to take a second and thank the heros in my VFR life - Safe-T, VFRoehm, Veefer800canuck, Swiffer, whylee, blueviffer - you all know who you are. Thanks for being who you are and thanks for being there for me during the tough times...

All right, first things first:

1) Cold beer - check
2) Wife asleep - check
3) Overwhelming need to senselessly modify otherwise fine motorcycle - check
4) Enough parts to keep me busy until the rest of the parts get here - check
5) Does it make me abnormal to start a project at midnight on a Sunday - check
6) Have I started a project at midnight on a Sunday in the past - check

I just got home from work, it's a bit after midnight, and taking the bike apart seemed like the appropriate thing to do. No parties tonight, no one going out tonight - just a quiet night home in the garage - Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance...

My Zen started earlier today when cleaning up around the shop ended in all the body panels from the VFR in my rec room floor... wifey was thrilled...

Fast forward to now - my problem for the past few weeks has been finding an engine hoist on the cheap to lift my VFR in order to remove the stock front end. Jacking it up fron the headers was not an option- it has unobtanium Jet-Hot coated TBR thin-wall headers. So, I decided to think past the issue of finding the hoist and come up with another program...tonight...

First I had to drain the coolant so I could remove the upper radiator hose in order to have plenty of room for my North Georgia stem stand...

[image: user posted image]

No where in the shop manual did it say "Warning, coolant may erupt several feet once the drain screw is removed". Erupt is the key word. I used an oil change pan to catch it, must've squirted 3 full feet or more... all I can say is 'be prepared'

Okay, radiator hose gone, jack up bike and place redneck front stand under bike. Easy enough.

Secured the rear on jack stands with a 3/4" rion pipe

[image: user posted image]

then jacked up the front using a chunk of 2x4 between my floor jack and the area where the head connects to the header. Then I made a stand to fit under the steering head out of scrap 2x4 and a piece of scrap MDF.

[image: user posted image]

[image: user posted image]

Pull the front wheel off, remove rotor, answer $100,000 question: Will the Ducati rotor bolt on the to VFR wheel? Yes!

[image: user posted image]

Will it bolt on well? No!

[image: user posted image]

Uh.....Houston? Well, I could drill the VFR bolt pattern into the Duc rotor; that would require a very precise indexing jig. Any ideas? Larry?

Here's some more shots of the two rotors...

Notice the difference in offset...

[image: user posted image]

[image: user posted image]

I felt like it was important to explain visually how much mechanic's tools can differ from state to state...

[image: user posted image]

Enough for tonight, I actually fell asleep while writing and typed some wierd shit that I don't remember typing - prolly bedtime. Stay tuned!!
#2
I love "writeups" like this!
However, I missed a tiny detail - why are you doing this?
#3
[image: user posted image]

Sorry Swiffer, I didn't mean to leave you out of my Hero's list; consider it amended...
#4
What forks and bars are those? And are the brakes radially mounted?
#5
04 RC51 forks & calipers, 996 rotors, 900SS bars, F4i master cylinders
#6
It's gonna be SCHWEEET beer.gif
#7
Cool project Monkey!

Sorry I haven't brought my hoist down to you, I see why you wanted it now! Unfortunately, I've still got the YZF hanging from it. And if all works well, tonight it will be the 250 (Fork Seals... bla).

Let me know when you're gonna throw out those AK-20's... I'll be there to pick up the trash!!!!

Michael
#8
Not a chance. Them shits is like mad crazy. Plus Max said he would swap them into the USD forks (including moving the compression stack outboard) for $75. The best part is when you bring him the whole bike, he sets it up himself...
#9
Yay me!!!
#10
Oh look, I'm about to turn 400!!!
#11
vfrmonkey,

You might want to check out the 929 954 helibars. The two are different and give you a different rise and reach. I have the 929 on top of the tripple clamps and they feel like stock vfr handlebar location. The 954 come up a little higher and back just a little more. Just for your info.

vince
#12
I am debating that as we speak. I have a mint set of 5gen helibars and a set of brand new 900SS; any takers?
#13
I'm salivating on my keyboard. Would you please hurry up and finish so we can see Monkenstein's Monster in all its glory? tongue.gif

I am a little confused though. How do you intend to make the Duc rotor fit, and with which binders? And it sounds like you'd like to retain your VFR front wheel. Hope all that works out, but I see a lot of tweaking in your near future.

Keep up the informative and entertaining write-up. fing02.gif
#14
vfrmonkey

Looks like another great project, keep us informed. You have done a great job on the write ups of your other mods, I am sure this one will be the same. I think the only thing I would change for myself is the rising bars. I guess its a personal preference, I like straight clip-ons without a rise, must be from growing up on race bikes and cafe racers. I look forward to your next report.

By the way, I don't see whats wrong with starting a project like this at midnight, I do it all the time. beer.gif
#15
Hey, can I come over and help out? Got nothin much better to do! goofy.gif

Like your steering stem stand. I found a couple of 4' tall stands out behind a clothing store, and a beam to go across them. I just wrap a ratcheting tie down under the neck of the frame and over the beam while on the centerstand. Works great for me, and I've had the entire front end off using it.

All you guys are making me want to put a new front end on my '99!

PS, MY shop manual warned me about the "coolant fountain!" tongue.gif
#16
magellan, Jan 16 2006, 07:48 PM How do you intend to make the Duc rotor fit, and with which binders? And it sounds like you'd like to retain your VFR front wheel. Hope all that works out, but I see a lot of tweaking in your near future.


I corrupted him by pointing out the Duc rotors match the VFR bolt pattern goofy.gif

It will be interesting to see how the 5mm offset standard Duc rotors on the VFR hub will match up with the RC51 forks. You can safely shim the rotors out about 2-3mm but after that you have to look at 10mm offset 'R' model rotors or a spacer ring.
#17
vfrmonkey, Jan 16 2006, 08:19 AM[image: user posted image]

Sorry Swiffer, I didn't mean to leave you out of my Hero's list; consider it amended...



vfrmonkey,

Add a rc51 front wheel which is lighter than the vfr and then either rc rotors or 929-954 rotors and you will be happier.

vince
#18
last_train, Jan 16 2006, 02:48 PMvfrmonkey
I think the only thing I would change for myself is the rising bars. I guess its a personal preference, I like straight clip-ons without a rise, must be from growing up on race bikes and cafe racers. 



He may not be able to clear the upper cowl with low clip ons, because most inverted fork set ups locate the clips under the upper triple. I'm going through the same thing right now, I'm fitting a 2005 CBR600RR front end onto my F4i. I lucked out because the fork offset and rake are the same on both bikes, so I just have to dial in the trail...


I am also using CBR929 320mm rotors, 929 clip ons, and a brake setup from a 2004 Yamaha R1, which are one-piece radial-mount calipers with a radial Brembo M/C(stock!). Should be great for one-finger braking! fing02.gif

The master cylinder fits 7/8 bars, so basically any modern bike can benefit from it... also, the Kawi 636 uses a Nissin radial unit, so there's another ebay option wink.gif


P.S. - late garage nights RULE!!!! beer.gif
#19
Blue Viffer, Jan 16 2006, 05:12 PMvfrmonkey,

Add a rc51 front wheel which is lighter than the vfr and then either rc rotors or 929-954 rotors and you will be happier.

vince




Beware! The stock 929/954 rotors are 330mm VS RC51's at 320mm and would necessitate custom-made brake caliper hanger brackets.

Easier to use RC51 discs and RC51 wheel/axle/spacers, etc. No alignment problems, everything just slides together.
#20
veefer800canuck, Jan 16 2006, 09:59 PMBeware! The stock 929/954 rotors are 330mm VS RC51's at 320mm and would necessitate custom-made brake caliper hanger brackets.

Easier to use RC51 discs and RC51 wheel/axle/spacers, etc. No alignment problems, everything just slides together.



Oops! You're right, I made a mistake, they are 330mm. But with a radial setup you just add spacers between the caliper and caliper mount to make up the distance, no need for special machined parts.

I wonder what the overall length of the RC51 fork leg is compared to your stock leg?
#21
SEBSPEED, Jan 16 2006, 09:30 PM
I wonder what the overall length of the RC51 fork leg is compared to your stock leg?



SAFE-T, Nov 23 2005, 10:05 PM
The RC51 fork is 742mm in length, as compared to the 929/954 which is 724mm.



I forget what the stock forks measured, but they are longer than RC51 forks.

Monkey could prolly measure his and post up.....
#22
veefer800canuck, Jan 16 2006, 10:40 PMI forget what the stock forks measured, but they are longer than RC51 forks.

Monkey could prolly measure his and post up.....



I wonder if they'd work on my VF... that would be a sight... prolly a big waste of money too... comp13.gif
#23
Sweet! Can't wait to see the finished product.
#24
SEBSPEED, Jan 16 2006, 09:50 PMI wonder if they'd work on my VF... that would be a sight... prolly a big waste of money too... comp13.gif




After you finish putting the 600RR front end onto your F4i, put the F4i frontend onto the VF500! Then sell the VF500 bits on Ebay.

Reduce, reuse, recycle! idea3.gif
#25
veefer800canuck, Jan 16 2006, 10:53 PMAfter you finish putting the 600RR front end onto your F4i, put the F4i frontend onto the VF500! Then sell the VF500 bits on Ebay.

Reduce, reuse, recycle!  idea3.gif



I thought about that, but the F4i legs are like 3-4" shorter. Maybe I'll make it a drag bike... goofy.gif

It's a 750 btw, with 2,995 original miles on it. All track miles. The 700 is being offered to the VF gods as a sacrifice and donating most of itself to the cause!
#26
SEBSPEED, Jan 16 2006, 10:03 PMI thought about that, but the F4i legs are like 3-4" shorter. Maybe I'll make it a drag bike...  goofy.gif

It's a 750 btw, with 2,995 original miles on it. All track miles. The 700 is being offered to the VF gods as a sacrifice and donating most of itself to the cause!



Oops, missed that. sad.gif

I had one of those beasts myself:



[image: user posted image]
vf750.JPG



BTW, Forking by Frank could make you some 41mm fork tubes to whatever length you need to fit them to the VF.

http://www.frankmain.qpg.com/
#27
veefer800canuck, Jan 16 2006, 11:09 PMOops, missed that.  sad.gif

I had one of those beasts myself:

[image: user posted image]
vf750.JPG




Nice! Mine are blue/white(83) and red/blue stripe/white(85).

And please excuse the thread jacking...
#28
Jack as much as you want, practice makes perfect...
#29
vfrmonkey, Jan 16 2006, 02:55 PM[image: user posted image]



What's the story on the shiny exhaust system?
(Sorry for not being quite updated on all Frankenprojects, been spending too much time in the wrenching dungeon and got a new job some months ago...)
#30
Jacking it up fron the headers was not an option- it has unobtanium Jet-Hot coated TBR thin-wall headers.


I am thoroughly jealous of this.
#31
Back on topic. There is plenty of room for another set of holes on the correct PCD between the existing holes on the Duc rotors. That is if you want to stay with the VFR wheel in the fancy forks.
EDIT: I now see that is what you said. Any shop with a milling machine with a DRO (digital read-out) will be able to drill the holes exactly where you want them. Just give them the X,Y co-ordinates based on the center of the rotor.
#32
tok tokkie, Jan 17 2006, 04:30 PMBack on topic.  There is plenty of room for another set of holes on the correct PCD between the existing holes on the Duc rotors.  That is if you want to stay with the VFR wheel in the fancy forks.
EDIT: I now see that is what you said.  Any shop with a milling machine with a DRO (digital read-out) will be able to drill the holes exactly where you want them.  Just give them the X,Y co-ordinates based on the center of the rotor.



Couldn't they measure it for me? I a woodworker and all my stuff is fractional, plus woodwork is only accurate to the 1/64th...
#33
vfrmonkey, Jan 17 2006, 10:38 AMCouldn't they measure it for me? I a woodworker and all my stuff is fractional, plus woodwork is only accurate to the 1/64th...



Bring them both sets of discs and explain what you want.

Let them measure it out.
#34
veefer800canuck, Jan 17 2006, 09:01 PMBring them both sets of discs and explain what you want.

Let them measure it out.



That's waht I'm sayin'. Front end mock-up is tonight, I should be able to tell if the Duc rotors will work based on offset (or lack thereof). I'll post pics when I'm done...
#35
Well gang, here's the next episode of FrankenMonkeyViffer: Monster or Misunderstood?

You would think that after enough projects roll through Monkey central that I would be able to write a parts list and effectively order that parts so that they arrive at the same time. But no, that would be an example of proactivity; and that practice has long been stricken from our household...

So I've been waiting patiently for all the crap to arrive. Most of it's here, so I made some progess. Here's the goods:

I still didn't have any bearings, so I tackled the old steering stops. Home Depot $39 grinder (thanks Pops) and 2 minutes - done. Not pretty, but done. By the way, everyone please note that an angle grinder will grind anything that gets in it's way. Ask me how I know.

[image: user posted image]

With that out of the way, I decided to remove all the LBS stuff and replace the rear master with the F4i unit. Thanks Canuck for leading the way here, I'll post the finished pic because you did such a good job with the steps in your writeup.

[image: user posted image]

There is a cotter pin that holds the rear brake lever to the rear brake actuator rod - I'm pretty sure Honda designed to go into low Earth orbit when you try to remove it so they can sell you another one for $2. Ask me how I know.

[image: user posted image]

Yay, UPS finally delivered!

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Mmmmmm........billet......and RTFM goodness.........

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Has anyone used thier shop manual as a bathroom reader? Is that abnormal?

Here's the bling

[image: user posted image]

What about anodized blue, too much or not?

Next, 22mm bearings in VFR wheel

[image: user posted image]

Hey, someone's been throwing beer cans in my shop garbage!!

The RC axle was about 3 feet longer than the VFR, but it was soft aluminum so I cut it on the miter saw. I forgot to take before and after shots, so here's the part I cut off with the VFR axle

[image: user posted image]

Holy shit, I think it may all fit!!!!

[image: user posted image]

It almost does... I ran to the hardware store and picked up some longer stainless Allen bolts and some SS spacers, spaced the caliper in appropriately

[image: user posted image]

The centerline of the caliper halves is near perfectly aligned with the center of the rotor thickness. What luck. I just wonder if spacing the caliper out that far is sound? Any opinions?
#36
vfrmonkey, Jan 24 2006, 09:35 AMBy the way, everyone please note that an angle grinder will grind anything that gets in it's way. Ask me how I know.

Ok - how do you know this?
vfrmonkey, Jan 24 2006, 09:35 AMThere is a cotter pin that holds the rear brake lever to the rear brake actuator rod - I'm pretty sure Honda designed to go into low Earth orbit when you try to remove it so they can sell you another one for $2. Ask me how I know.

So, how do you know this?

vfrmonkey, Jan 24 2006, 09:35 AMMmmmmm........billet......and RTFM goodness.........

Indeed! Very sexy!
vfrmonkey, Jan 24 2006, 09:35 AMHey, someone's been throwing beer cans in my shop garbage!!

Ah... that was me, Dude. Sorry.
At least I didn't throw them on the floor.

All in all, looking very nice! I'm very jealous, and itching to do some mods myself.
Chances of that happening.... zero. They'd come under the category of "fiddling", which has been outlawed by the co-pilot.
#37
I recommend breaking something and having to replace it. Or there could be a recall; or you could make some safety modifications... they all work at least once...
#38
vfrmonkey, Jan 24 2006, 09:51 AMI recommend breaking something and having to replace it. Or there could be a recall; or you could make some safety modifications... they all work at least once...


Ah - you obviously know how this subterfuge works.
I have managed to get a few things past the ProjectApprovalManager:
CPU fan installed on the R/R (did it just because I could, had several fans lying around, and it didn't cost anything);
Lowered gearing (cost nothing - used leftover VTR1000 sprocket);
PCII install (only temporary, didn't cost anything because I borrowed it, and technically it wasn't part of the VFR);
O2 sensor eliminators (Sshhhh! They're secret!);
Customised Satantune restrictor (dunno how that one slipped past);
Lighter plug install (some grumbling);
Lighter plug replaced by a quick-connect battery charger cable/plug.

Can't remember what else, but there were some things I got growled about, like taking the fairing off to straighten the brackets (not a problem), and taking the restrictor out of the Satantune, which I do every so often. And then there was the Evo Star Shifter Kit install, which she didn't know about until I was installing it. That was a bone of contention, as were the new footpeg covers (rubber things) which I bought because the old ones were tatty, and one O-ring and one gasket for the shifter kit install cost too little, so I added the covers. On the grounds of safety, because my foot might slip off the old ones. The response was, "Don't you go using that 'safety' argument on me!"
Ooops... huh.gif
#39
enzed_viffer, Jan 23 2006, 01:49 PMAll in all, looking very nice! I'm very jealous, and itching to do some mods myself.
Chances of that happening.... zero. They'd come under the category of "fiddling", which has been outlawed by the co-pilot.



Now that is funny. I am rarely aloud to fiddle either, only if I offer rock solid proof that it is absolutely necessary. I've come up with some great ones let me tell you. The one I'm working her with now is that heavier bar ends will help reduce the chances of an accident idea3.gif . All this trouble for $60.00 bar ends. Anyway, it gave me a much needed laugh today.
#40
vfrmonkey, Jan 23 2006, 09:35 PMHoly shit, I think it may all fit!!!!


+1.gif for the monkey. VFR wheel, Ducati rotor, RC51 forks, CBR triple clamp fing02.gif
#41
What, no one here is brave enough to sign off on Monkey's caliper spacers??? Mmmm, well, let me just say that I'm inclined to think you'll be fine as long as everything lines up squarely and you use a dab of medium-strength Loc-tite on the bolts (can you say, "I promise to take gradually longer test rides and re-check alignment?). As for the rest of the set-up, very sexy! You do realize, of course, that veefer800canuck "out-cools" you until you file and sand smooth the lower triple where you cut off the nubbins tongue.gif

And we can't have that now, can we? unsure.gif
#42
magellan, Jan 23 2006, 09:06 PM You do realize, of course, that veefer800canuck "out-cools" you until you file and sand smooth the lower triple where you cut off the nubbins  tongue.gif

And we can't have that now, can we? unsure.gif



That was the first thing that I noticed, but I'm anal retentive!
#43
I was seriously considering RC51 forks from Yack but finding a RC51 wheel and rotors here is a big problem. Would the VFR wheel fit (width & bearing sizes?). I could always get new wave rotors.
#44
vfrmonkey, Jan 23 2006, 03:35 PMI ran to the hardware store and picked up some longer stainless Allen bolts and some SS spacers, spaced the caliper in appropriately

[image: user posted image]

The centerline of the caliper halves is near perfectly aligned with the center of the rotor thickness. What luck. I just wonder if spacing the caliper out that far is sound? Any opinions?




I have no problems with spacing the caliper as you did but I would go find some appropriate length grade 12.9 metric allen head bolts.

Stainless steel hardware does not have the tensile strength that regular steel does. Not even close. And shear strength is approximately 0.6 of the tensile strength. Your caliper bolts are loaded in shear when in service, so you need a Really Good Bolt holding your brakes together.

I was at the largest bolt place in Edmonton (Edmonton Nut and Bolt).

All they do is sell bolts, nothing else, fasteners are their life.

I asked about stainless steel caliper bolts, I even had the forks and brakes with me to drop on the counter to show them and be sure I got the correct sizes and dude behind the counter gave me an ed-yoo-kay-shun as to why that would be a Very Bad Idea ™.

The stainless spacer is fine as it is only subject to compression loading, but do yourself a favour and get the grade 12.9 allen bolts.


For non-critical fasteners, stainless is fine. But don't use them for suspension, chassis or brakes.
#45
Oh, and be sure to have a look at the bolts that were supplied with the VORTEX upper triple clamp. Mine were 5mm too short. Thread them in until they bottom and look in the back side of the hole.

I picked up a pair of grade 12.9 allen bolts, 30mm length, IIRC and the ones that VORTEX had supplied were only 25mm.
#47
vfrmonkey, Jan 24 2006, 03:00 AMOne step ahead of ya, canuck... http://www.boltdepot.com/metric-socket-products.aspx

Ya, I still need to clean up the triple and drill/tap for steering stops...


Sorry we doubted you. I guess the old saw about a monkey and a typewriter...err, VFR just isn't true. I believe you may actually create a working motorcycle...!
#48
tok tokkie, Jan 24 2006, 07:15 AMI was seriously considering RC51 forks from Yack but finding a RC51 wheel and rotors here is a big problem.  Would the VFR wheel fit (width & bearing sizes?).  I could always get new wave rotors.



Just do what Monkey did. Or you could buy a complete RC51 fork swap from me.
#49
Nah, too much tweaking to do what I did. I just don't like the carriers on the RC51 rotors, too bulky looking. And I couldn't afford the wheel...
#50
Got some more stuff done last night and this morning; I'm running out of project capital so I put my mint faster red fender and both sets of helibars on epay - I'll sell them here first if anyone wants them...

Here's what we acomplished

After much searching in the pouring down rain on my only day off (nothing like spending your day off driving around looking for a one-off part) I stopped at a transmission supply place to look for the monster snap rings to space the clamps. he guys were super nice and allowed me to dump out a box of about 23,000,000 greasy, nasty snap rings on a table and sort through them. I lucked out...

lower race went in perfectly

[image: user posted image]
DSC01101.JPG


Upper race no prob either

[image: user posted image]
DSC01102.JPG


Cleaned up my hack job on the lower triple

[image: user posted image]
DSC01103.JPG

There, are you guys happy now?

and bolted it together for the first time

[image: user posted image]
DSC01108.JPG



[image: user posted image]
DSC01106.JPG


Holy crap, it all fits!!

Tune in next time for another exciing episode of "Installing dust seals, greasing bearings and the search for a competent machine shop" Thanks for watching!
End of thread · 50 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 21 Feb 2006