I've read everything there is to read on VFRD about chain replacement and maintenance, but questions remain...
What's the best way to clean a chain without washing out the heavy grease behind the side-plates that the o-rings or x-rings are supposed to keep in?
Are lubricants really even necessary with an x-ring chain if it's regularly cleaned? If so, are the lubricants only necessary to protect the roller-sprocket interface or are they also increasing the longevity of the seals?
Which lubricant has the fewest problems with fling-off and dirt attraction? Which is easiest to clean?
I don't know this topic is so worn down. FWIW: I use wd-40 and an older soft toothbrush (grunge brush is on the way), and clean that sucker. Then I heat the chain up and put her on the centerstand and lube it with the Honda Chain Wax. My chain looks great and hasn't had any issues for 10k miles.
I lube with Amsoil heavy duty metal protector. It doesn't fling off, and penetrates well. It sets up as a waxy film. My chain has 21,000 miles on it......
At every fill up, I put the 99 VFR on the center stand, put her in first, and spray the chain at the rear sprocket with enough WD-40 that it runs off of the front sprocket.
Chain stays clean and shiny between treatments. Sprocket looks new. Original chain is at 11,000 miles.
F14Scott, Apr 15 2006, 10:11 PMAt every fill up, I put the 99 VFR on the center stand, put her in first, and spray the chain at the rear sprocket with enough WD-40 that it runs off of the front sprocket.
Chain stays clean and shiny between treatments. Sprocket looks new. Original chain is at 11,000 miles.
And yet in another thread here I read that the WD-40 penetrates past the seals and dillutes the heavy grease inside the chain. Not sure I'd want to do that.
magellan, Apr 16 2006, 01:14 AMAnd yet in another thread here I read that the WD-40 penetrates past the seals and dillutes the heavy grease inside the chain. Not sure I'd want to do that.
I love it when people bring that up. WD-40 has Stoddard Solvent in it. That's the stuff used by dry cleaners. My father has used kerosene for over 50 years as a penetrating agent to break rusted bolts loose. He mixes in a little oil with the kerosene to make his own very effective penetrating oil. Honda recommends kerosene to clean the chain. If a "penetrating oil" like WD-40 will get in and dilute the grease, so should kerosene.
So...I don't buy the WD-40 ruining chains by penetrating because kerosene will penetrate just as good. I might buy into the Stoddard Solvent messing up the o-rings which would eventually cause the grease to be exposed and diluted. However, I've seen Iron Butt riders putting tens of thousands of miles on chains cleaned and lubed with WD-40 without incident.
All that being said, I currently clean with kerosene and use BelRay to lube. I'll be switching to DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Lubricant when I run out. goofy.gif
I clean my chain with kerosene, then spray on Honda Chain Lube and wipe off the excess. I always do chain maintainence after a short ride so the chain is warmed up, so the kerosene and chain lube penetrate in to the links. It also cleans up easier when it's warm. I go through this ritual about every 300 - 500 miles or so.
Drumjack2112, Apr 16 2006, 07:40 AMI clean my chain with kerosene, then spray on Honda Chain Lube and wipe off the excess. I always do chain maintainence after a short ride so the chain is warmed up, so the kerosene and chain lube penetrate in to the links. It also cleans up easier when it's warm. I go through this ritual about every 300 - 500 miles or so.
That's exactly my point. Kerosene penetrates and dissolves stuff...it will dilute the hell out of oil and grease when it mixes with them. That's why it's a good cleaner, just like WD-40.
I was using gear oil until this week. Now I am using PJ1 and like it much better since there is much less mess with it. It seems to stick to the chain well too.
It doesn't seem to matter what I do so I do as little as possible. I have 30k miles on my OEM chain, I have adjusted it twice and is not close to the stretch limit. I have it loose enough so I can lift the chain and it will just touch the rubber guide on the swing arm. I have never cleaned it. I figure the lube is on the inside and the less I do to it the longer it will stay in there. What I do is follow the manual, gear oil about 600 miles. The chain will rust if I don't lube after a long day in the rain, so I keep oil on it, cleaning is a waste of time. I have a small lube soaked sock, put lube on it, and press it to the chain as I spin the tire, once around on the top and then again on the bottom, use just enough lube to get a little between the plates. I use a piece of plastic wrap to keep my hand clean. I am not a perfectionist about it just smear it on and it is working.
Hey tbzep what owners manual or service manual have you seen from Honda that says to clean the chain with Kerosene? Also can someone please tell me if there is a certain kind of kerosene to use and where to buy it. Thanks
Motul Chain Clean spray and a Grunge Brush to clean, and Motul Chain Lube - a little too much flingage for me, though, and I will probably change to another brand of lube when I run out of this stuff.
drb, Page 141 of my Y2K owners manual says "1. Clean the side surfaces of the chain with a dry cloth. Use a high flashpoint solvent such as kerosene- not gasoline. Do not brush the rubber O-rings." I use an aerosol made by GUNK, label says "Motorcycle and Farm Equipment Chain Lubricant". It is a basically white can with an image like a dirt bike. It smells very much like kerosene but has just a little tackiness to the feel. I don't perform the maintenance at specific intervals as much as I just check the chain for cleanliness. This stuff is very inexpensive but you have to get at an O'Reillys or Autozone...etc. Don't think I have ever seen any at a bike shop or WalMart. As already noted, I believe the trick is to keep the side plates clean, without damaging the O-rings. Probably also helps if you don't have a habit of drag racing type takeoffs. I have almost 16K on my oldest VFR and think I have adjusted the chain once, maybe twice.
Clean with all-purpose brush & simple green (will switch to kerosene when I remember to pick some up) rolleyes.gif ... Run her for a bit to warm up the chain... Bike on center stand, turn rear wheel by hand and lube with PJ1. When possible, let her sit over night to allow the PJ1 to get drawn into the links and set. (At least, that's the theory. ) biggrin.gif
I use the Sherwin-Williams "Tri-Flow" teflon spray (indicated for use on motorcycle chains), when it starts looking dry (takes a long time) or after a long ride.
Drumjack2112, Apr 16 2006, 04:40 AMI clean my chain with kerosene, then spray on Honda Chain Lube and wipe off the excess. I always do chain maintainence after a short ride so the chain is warmed up, so the kerosene and chain lube penetrate in to the links. It also cleans up easier when it's warm. I go through this ritual about every 300 - 500 miles or so.
My OEM chain / Sprockets lasted 24k miles with zero maintenance, but D.I.D. X-Ring chain and new sprockets only lasted 14k miles with occasional maintenance. Go figure.
I put on 600-700 miles per week. No way I'm gonna bother cleaning / lubricating every single weekend. I'm far too lazy and the return is too little for the effort, IMO.
I use one of the trip meters to keep track and lube every 500 miles or so. Clean when it looks real nasty with WD40. I used gear oil at first until that bottle ran out. Switched to PJ1, less of a mess. cool.gif
WD-40 to clean, I let it dry and then lube with the Honda stuff and let it set over night and wipe off excess in the morning.......Zero fling fing02.gif
drb, Apr 24 2006, 05:59 PMHey tbzep what owners manual or service manual have you seen from Honda that says to clean the chain with Kerosene? Also can someone please tell me if there is a certain kind of kerosene to use and where to buy it. Thanks
Page 159 of the 2004 manual, "Use a high flashpoint solvent such as kerosene." It's identical to the info in vfrurknee's 2,000 manual.
Simple green and a toothbrush, then WD-40 and a toothbrush, then PJ-1. I think modern chains are much less fragile than the myth suggests. If an off-the-shelf DID or RK can stand up to a MotoGP bike, I don't think we can do that much damage...
drb, Apr 25 2006, 01:01 AMI'm still waiting for someone to tell me if there is a certain kind of Kerosene to use for cleaning the chain and where can it be purchased? Thanks
diesel fuel is a near form of kerosene. as is jet-a, coleman lantern fuel....
vfrmonkeyI think modern chains are much less fragile than the myth suggests. If an off-the-shelf DID or RK can stand up to a MotoGP bike, I don't think we can do that much damage...
According to an interview on motorcycle.com with some chain expert named Longoni,
[...] "The only reason for chain wear is the loss of lubricant" says Longoni. The advent of the O-ring chain enabled the chain to keep its oil inside and stay lubricated were it counts for long periods.
The lubricant in a modern O-ring chain is not ordinary oil. It contains plenty of synthetic additives that for example, help it withstand the enormous loads that develop during a first-gear burn-out. Did they ever try any friction-reducing additives in the chain's lubricant? Friction is not the issue, Longoni says, the lubricant's film strength is what keeps the metal from touching and wearing. The moment it is not there, wear escalates.
Mr. Longoni also has plenty of tips for proper chain care. Even the cheapest chain without O-rings will last a surprising amount of time with proper care, meticulous adjustment and oiling at 350-mile intervals. To my surprise, Mr. Longoni claims that heavy gear oil applied with a brush is what many racing teams use, but this is a messy proposition and best only when the chain can be left to drip away the excess overnight. Most people spray on chain lube, which is good as long as you wait the required 20 minutes to let the solvents in the spray evaporate and leave the thicker lubricant on the chain, rather than on of the tire's sidewall.
Chain grease is not so efficient. It cannot get into the tight clearances between moving parts and the most good it can ever do is keep the chain's side plates from rusting in the winter.
Chain oil's main enemy is high running temperatures. The running temperature of a chain ideally should not exceed 160 degrees Fahrenheit (70 degrees Celsius). Above that, chain lubricant starts to thin, and the chances of it seeping out past the O-rings increase; eventually the film strength drops.
This brings up the matter of chain adjustment or rather, chain mal-adjustment, the main culprit for "well-done" chains. Surprisingly an over tightened chain is a far worse than a loose one. Informed riders know that suspension movement increases chain tension, and what is a fairly tight chain at standstill becomes impossibly tight when the suspension bottoms. These added and unnecessary tensile loads can exceed the chain's capacity and the increased friction will raise the chain's temperature sky-high. [...]
Hobie1dog, Apr 24 2006, 08:10 PMNO MORE OIL THREADS ohmy.gif
I haven't seen anyone using Chain Wax yet. I went to the local bike shop and that's the first thing the guy suggested.
im a chain wax user. stuff works great. when it starts darkening i clean with diesel and then smoke a cigarette which i accidentaly drop in the diesel residue, then i died, then the flames caught my pants on fire and i died some more....i love that enzed!....then i quick trip it around the neighborhood looking for suntanning women, then while chain is still warm i douse it with more chain wax
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 14 Jun 2006