I decided to buy an Ebay oil cooler and carefully paint it black to 1) replace the rather ugly alumy original one, and 2) because black is a MUCH better conductor of heat.
So, when doing a horn install the other day, I also planned to dump the oil and install the cooler. After dumping the oil (it drooled for an hour), and before I pulled the cooler lines from where they attach to the crankcase, I put a new clean drain pan under the area to see what, if anything, came out. I wonder what that was.............
Uh-oh!
[image: IPB Image]
Leftover Oil from Cooler, and JBY28's Fingers
So, this means that every time you lovingly change your "oil" in your "baby", this is what is left behind, to contaminate and dilute and compromise and ruin your beloved Oil Changing Ritual...so that this Demon Seed Cup of Dirty Oil can decrease your engine life from 200,000 miles to about 199,000 miles. blink.gif
In addition to the new, black cooler, I hit the valve cover with ultra-fine steel wool and some WD-40. Then I degreased it real good and gave it a coat of poly clear. Looks much better than the road-filmed and tarnished original stuff.
[image: IPB Image]
Blacl Oil Cooler
JBY28 and mq105 were over to my shack for various farkling. It was a good Sunday! Yeah, we had the GP on the telly.
[image: IPB Image]
Ponte Vedra VFRs!!
Now....go change your oil!!!
Trace - that extra 1000 miles is worth it, even though you mock it so...... laugh.gif
If someone wanted to get every drop out of the cooler as well, perhaps a hole drilled into one of the tubes of the oil cooler, and then fitted with a quick connect "port" of some type might allow an aircompressor to blow the oil out of the cooler, and down into the pan?
I'm no edjumacated engineer - but the logic seems to be there.......
Once again - damn thats a fine garage.....!
Interesting, Approx how much extra is it? 1/2 quart? Or how much oil did you put back in your bike to fill it up. Owe yeah,,, have to agree nice looking garage =)
Jason
the oil cooler cools the oil after it's been through the engine yes??
other wise it will take those extra few vital seconds to fill the oil lines / oil cooler before its gets to your engine...
When doing my oil changes (allways with a filter change as well...!!) I also tip the bike while on the centre stand - very %uk4n carefully - to get rid of those final few millilitres of oil.
Also alway drain hot oil and wait at least 10 mins after turning motor off to let as much oil drain out as possible.
Cool, now I'm going downstairs to redo my garage smile.gif
Gotta love that glass. Bottoms up! looks like some really wicked beverage.
Trace, Jul 25 2006, 08:12 PM
I decided to buy an Ebay oil cooler and carefully paint it black to 1) replace the rather ugly alumy original one, and 2) because black is a MUCH better conductor of heat.
So, when doing a horn install the other day, I also planned to dump the oil and install the cooler. After dumping the oil (it drooled for an hour), and before I pulled the cooler lines from where they attach to the crankcase, I put a new clean drain pan under the area to see what, if anything, came out. I wonder what that was.............
Uh-oh!
[image: IPB Image]
Leftover Oil from Cooler, and JBY28's Fingers
So, this means that every time you lovingly change your "oil" in your "baby", this is what is left behind, to contaminate and dilute and compromise and ruin your beloved Oil Changing Ritual...so that this Demon Seed Cup of Dirty Oil can decrease your engine life from 200,000 miles to about 199,000 miles. blink.gif
In addition to the new, black cooler, I hit the valve cover with ultra-fine steel wool and some WD-40. Then I degreased it real good and gave it a coat of poly clear. Looks much better than the road-filmed and tarnished original stuff.
[image: IPB Image]
Blacl Oil Cooler
JBY28 and mq105 were over to my shack for various farkling. It was a good Sunday! Yeah, we had the GP on the telly.
[image: IPB Image]
Ponte Vedra VFRs!!
Now....go change your oil!!!
nice setup you got there, if you need a son to adopt let me know>G<
Painted black? I thought the idea was to shead heat not absorb it? Why not go for one of those 4th gen 3 row jobbies? If you guys saw my bike after 79k miles the thought of painting the oil cooler whould probably make you laugh, sort of like painting the oil filter. Hmm how many road chips to get to the center of a toostie pop vfr?
The best way to get that last bit of oil out is to drain the oil first, then while the drain pan is still below and the drain plug still out, start it up for about 30 seconds and give it a rev or two...
Trace, Jul 26 2006, 03:12 AM
2) because black is a MUCH better conductor of heat.
The color of the paint doesn't make a difference as heat radiation is in the infra-red spectrum. That and the oil cooler being more a convector than a radiator.
cozye, Jul 26 2006, 08:33 AM
The best way to get that last bit of oil out is to drain the oil first, then while the drain pan is still below and the drain plug still out, start it up for about 30 seconds and give it a rev or two...
HAY KEWL, il try that nxt tim K.................
...or not ohmy.gif
HispanicSlammer, Jul 26 2006, 02:23 AM
Painted black? I thought the idea was to shead heat not absorb it? Why not go for one of those 4th gen 3 row jobbies? If you guys saw my bike after 79k miles the thought of painting the oil cooler whould probably make you laugh, sort of like painting the oil filter. Hmm how many road chips to get to the center of a toostie pop vfr?
HS--actually, black colored objects both absorp and
RADIATE heat much better than any other color. For that matter, flat black is better than gloss black. That is why auto radiators have always been black in the past...works better. The physics of it gets real complex real fast....all that stuff was hammered into my head back in engineering school. From Wikipedia: Black Body--In physics, a pure black body is a theoretical object that absorbs all electromagnetic radiation (light, heat) that falls onto it. No radiation passes through it and none is reflected, yet it theoretically radiates every possible wavelength of energy.
As we all know, if something is warmer than its surroundings it will radiate heat. If it's cooler, it will absorb heat. If it's white or silver it will do this at a certain rate (think in terms of energy flow). If it's black it will flow that energy in or out at a faster rate than the white.
I doubt anyone has a serious issue with dangerous oil temps unless there is another problem, but I wanted it purty AND I wanted it to work as good as it could, thus black.
And to get a good oil change, I think you guys should start removing the oil pan and mopping out every last drop with a clean, 100% cotton dish towel. Reach up and get any dribs off the rods, too. dry.gif
This thread is just an excuse for Trace to show off his garage again...
All that engineering mumbo jumbo is great and all but what did you do with the used oil?? goofy.gif
Lobster, Jul 26 2006, 09:14 AM
This thread is just an excuse for Trace to show off his garage again...
The He11 with the garage...let's see the women again.
Lobster, Jul 26 2006, 09:14 AM
This thread is just an excuse for Trace to show off his garage again...
tongue.gif Nice garage, I have to agree.
g_unit, Jul 26 2006, 09:22 AM
tongue.gif Nice garage, I have to agree.
FWIW, I've parked my bike there. tongue.gif
My bike was happy. . . .
theoxmole, Jul 26 2006, 09:43 AM
FWIW, I've parked my bike there. tongue.gif
My bike was happy. . . .
But I made Dale wipe his tire treads with a damp towel before he pulled that bike in! biggrin.gif
dutchinterceptor, Jul 26 2006, 09:21 AM
All that engineering mumbo jumbo is great and all but what did you do with the used oil??
LOL!!! I box it up and send it to theoxmole! goofy.gif
HispanicSlammer, Jul 26 2006, 01:23 AM
Painted black? I thought the idea was to shead heat not absorb it? Why not go for one of those 4th gen 3 row jobbies? If you guys saw my bike after 79k miles the thought of painting the oil cooler whould probably make you laugh, sort of like painting the oil filter. Hmm how many road chips to get to the center of a toostie pop vfr?
Interestingly enough, black not only absorbs heat well, but rejects heat just as well. I can see where he was coming from with that one. But it seems like you'd see more black radiators around if it really was that much more effective.
Trace, Jul 25 2006, 08:12 PM
[image: IPB Image]
Leftover Oil from Cooler, and JBY28's Fingers
So who drank the Guinness???
cozye, Jul 26 2006, 07:33 AM
The best way to get that last bit of oil out is to drain the oil first, then while the drain pan is still below and the drain plug still out, start it up for about 30 seconds and give it a rev or two...
Uhhhh... is that safe??
Salty42, Jul 26 2006, 04:18 PM
Uhhhh... is that safe??
NO! warranty.gif It's a joke.
The contents of that glass looks like some oatmeal stout that I brewed last year. Mmmmm. beer.gif
I believe a true black body can emit any type of radiation, but any given wavelength will be emitted in only a certain range of temperature. Not sure how that theory will apply to a black painted radiator. huh.gif Seems like the properties of the coating might have as much to do with the absorption/emission of heat as the color of the paint.
Kanadian Ken, Jul 25 2006, 06:34 PM
Trace - that extra 1000 miles is worth it, even though you mock it so...... laugh.gif
If someone wanted to get every drop out of the cooler as well, perhaps a hole drilled into one of the tubes of the oil cooler, and then fitted with a quick connect "port" of some type might allow an aircompressor to blow the oil out of the cooler, and down into the pan?
I'm no edjumacated engineer - but the logic seems to be there.......
Once again - damn thats a fine garage.....!
Per the microfiche, the cooler's tie-in to the crankcase is sealed with an O-Ring, part no. 91255-MJ1-000 (11.1 x 3.5), that goes for about $1.52 USD. Seems to me it wouldn't be a big deal to take down one leg of the cooler and blow some air (air tank w/rubber nozzle, or compressor, or one's own mouth[after waiting for the leg to drain, of course) through the cooler to push the cooler oil back into the crankcase for draining. Seal with the O-Ring and torque to spec, and it's as good as it gets.
I had a Ducati Monster with an oil cooler and I recall having to unbolt the hard feed/return lines from both sides of the cooler to actually remove the cooler for draining, so that job looks even easier on this bike.
Dino71, Jul 26 2006, 01:00 PM
Hey Trace, the used oil might be able to compliment then new stripper pole that you will be putting in your garage? I would want any young lady to get "pole burn" cool.gif Hey does you Vett have an oil cooler? I was wondering if all oil coolers retain old oil???
Yeah, it has an engine oil cooler, a power steering oil cooler, and a transmission cooler (for the 6 speed manual...no auto trannies in Z-06).
As for the stripper pole lube....I'd want to use clean oil. fing02.gif tongue.gif
Misspent Youth, Jul 26 2006, 01:41 PM
Per the microfiche, the cooler's tie-in to the crankcase is sealed with an O-Ring, part no. 91255-MJ1-000 (11.1 x 3.5), that goes for about $1.52 USD. Seems to me it wouldn't be a big deal to take down one leg of the cooler and blow some air (air tank w/rubber nozzle, or compressor, or one's own mouth[after waiting for the leg to drain, of course) through the cooler to push the cooler oil back into the crankcase for draining. Seal with the O-Ring and torque to spec, and it's as good as it gets.
Wow...you guys are taking me seriously about getting that last drop of oil outta there!
1) You can remove the tubing connections in a jiffy, those o-rings will last a thousand times. No issues there.
2) Much of that oil you see in the beer glass ran out of the oilpan fittings, NOT the cooler itself. I'd say 2/3rds from the pan, 1/3 from the cooler, approximately, maybe, sorta. Belive me, I didn't pay much attention other than to notice it.
3) As for blowing air thru it, you need to remember that one side is routed to the oil pump somewhere in there, so you'd probably have to remove both sides to really blow out the cooler and tubes. Point is--both tubes don't just open into crankcase...only one tube does.
Trace, Jul 26 2006, 12:14 PM
Wow...you guys are taking me seriously about getting that last drop of oil outta there!
1) You can remove the tubing connections in a jiffy, those o-rings will last a thousand times. No issues there.
2) Much of that oil you see in the beer glass ran out of the oilpan fittings, NOT the cooler itself. I'd say 2/3rds from the pan, 1/3 from the cooler, approximately, maybe, sorta. Belive me, I didn't pay much attention other than to notice it.
3) As for blowing air thru it, you need to remember that one side is routed to the oil pump somewhere in there, so you'd probably have to remove both sides to really blow out the cooler and tubes. Point is--both tubes don't just open into crankcase...only one tube does.
Hey, a 1/2 qt of dirty oil when you're only talking about 3 added qts means close to 16% of your oil isn't as fresh as it could be (or technically worn out and due for change), prematurely aging your new oil. That's enough for me to take the extra step (the Ducati service regimen requires the cooler be drained for the oil change - guess Honda didn't want to look too maintenance-intensive? Or maybe 1/2 qt doesn't matter after all. Anyway, this fanatic is doing it!).
In going through my bike tear-down / redo, I've pretty much read everything available on this bike and I note the factory manual talks about making sure the oil delivery holes in the camshafts are open, and not full of gunk. They say that inadequate oil changing contributes to sludge creation that gradually blocks the holes, leading to oil starvation to the cams. I concluded the same is probably true for other destinations on the oil delivery trail.
So, thanks for the heads-up! Now to consult the manual to see which oil tube to push air through (the one that comes off the pump-side, wherever that is), as the other tube should just dump back to the (draining) oil pan.
And you mentioned pulling the pan for a thorough cleaning. It's a joke with the VFR, but not with my '89 Moto Guzzi that requires you pull the pan to replace the spin-on filter (inside) every 5th oil change (2,000 miles per, suggested). Surprising what crud you find in the pan on the removal, even with adequate oil changes.
cozye, Jul 26 2006, 07:33 AM
The best way to get that last bit of oil out is to drain the oil first, then while the drain pan is still below and the drain plug still out, start it up for about 30 seconds and give it a rev or two...
I've actually done that a time or two w/o the revving part, as long as the oil pressure light didn't come on. At an idle there's enough oil film IMO to prevent any damage as long as you shut it off when the oil pressure light comes on! Especially with MB1. unsure.gif
beer.gif
Putting the bike on the sidestand also helps quite a bit. The first time I did this it surprised me how much more oil came out.
7K Rush, Jul 27 2006, 07:39 AM
Putting the bike on the sidestand also helps quite a bit. The first time I did this it surprised me how much more oil came out.
I think that's the way it was intended to be done, because that way the oil dripping from the filter largely misses the headers, and the drain on the sump is ideally positioned to get any oil in the sump.
It's what I intended to do on my last erl change a couple of weeks ago, but I used my mate Kerry's hoist (and workshop, and those tools I forgot to bring, and his oil, filter, waste oil drum, soap, rags, etc etc.) so I had to use the centrestand. It was really nice not having to bend down, and having plenty of room to work (they moved the Hardleys, BMWs and other assorted krep outta the way), but the heckling audience made my job harder. laugh.gif
Cost me less for the whole thing than the erl cost me last time. fing02.gif
Say, Trace: your bike is becoming way too BLINGY! You're making the rest of us Fifth-Genners look bad, really bad. Except for Rob, of course.
From:
WikipediaThe amount and type of electromagnetic radiation they emit is directly related to their temperature. Black bodies below around 700 K (426.85 ?C) produce very little radiation at visible wavelengths and appear black (hence the name).
Painting it black does not seem to make any difference - but it sure looks nice.
Last time I changed oil I switched the engine switch to off and pressed the starter button a few times to drain a little more oil. The next time I will try to remember leaving it on the side stand and maybe drain the oil cooler as well. Can?t be a bad thing to do I think.
I refuse to let my oil get that dirty, I also have a reusable oil filter that I service between oil changes.
As hot as these bikes run I feel the oil may be compromised IMHO. It may be a waste of time and money as I am not an engineer LOL but it makes me feel good as this is one thing I can do.
Just my $20.00 worth.
Trace, Jul 25 2006, 09:12 PM
I decided to buy an Ebay oil cooler and carefully paint it black to 1) replace the rather ugly alumy original one, and 2) because black is a MUCH better conductor of heat.
So, when doing a horn install the other day, I also planned to dump the oil and install the cooler. After dumping the oil (it drooled for an hour), and before I pulled the cooler lines from where they attach to the crankcase, I put a new clean drain pan under the area to see what, if anything, came out. I wonder what that was.............
Uh-oh!
[image: IPB Image]
Leftover Oil from Cooler, and JBY28's Fingers
So, this means that every time you lovingly change your "oil" in your "baby", this is what is left behind, to contaminate and dilute and compromise and ruin your beloved Oil Changing Ritual...so that this Demon Seed Cup of Dirty Oil can decrease your engine life from 200,000 miles to about 199,000 miles. blink.gif
In addition to the new, black cooler, I hit the valve cover with ultra-fine steel wool and some WD-40. Then I degreased it real good and gave it a coat of poly clear. Looks much better than the road-filmed and tarnished original stuff.
[image: IPB Image]
Blacl Oil Cooler
JBY28 and mq105 were over to my shack for various farkling. It was a good Sunday! Yeah, we had the GP on the telly.
[image: IPB Image]
Ponte Vedra VFRs!!
Now....go change your oil!!!
I am not that concerned with used oil left in the bike. I read a study about synthetic motor oil where they tested to limit for deterioration of the oil. Funny enough, just adding a bit of new oil extends its life a great deal. So long as the protective agents remain in the product and continue stopping engine wear, I am pleased. It's about car motor oil but it still worth reading it.
http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.htmlHey who is that guy holding up the white paper in the background goofy.gif oh yeah that would be me! FYI the black painted forks and oil cooler that Trace did looks jam up. Pics do not do them justice. One day when I get bored I will copycat him (yet again). And notice the red VFR is first in the picture, why b/c red is the fastest color:-)
tooslow, Jul 26 2006, 08:30 PM
I refuse to let my oil get that dirty, I also have a reusable oil filter that I service between oil changes.
As hot as these bikes run I feel the oil may be compromised IMHO. It may be a waste of time and money as I am not an engineer LOL but it makes me feel good as this is one thing I can do.
Just my $20.00 worth.
I KNEW my goblet of oil cooler oil would bring out the
Oil Change Fanatics! Yaknow....that bit of oil that's left behind has been being left behind for about a decade of V4 Honda VFR engines.....have any of you EVER heard of an oil-related failure? Have you ever heard of ANY engine failure, other than those stupid VTEC cam chain tensioners? How about trans or clutch failure? (other than one of our track riders splatting one a while back, traumatically, and thus not from oil failure) No, you haven't. Have you heard about 100,000 mile Viffers? Yes you have. But I guess if dramatically changing your oil to the last drop makes you feel good, so be it.
So, this has become another oil thread! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Hey JBY, how's them Hyperlites working? Are cars locking up their brakes 200 feet behind you? Oh, and what about the suspension tuning? I guess we should have raised your forks a few millimeters, too. Next time.
Why not flush the motor with new oil for about ten miles, drain it again and add new oil.
This way you REALY got rid of the old oil.
... what?... blink.gif
?art West-VL., Jul 27 2006, 06:25 AM
Why not flush the motor with new oil for about ten miles, drain it again and add new oil.
This way you REALY got rid of the old oil.
... what?... blink.gif
Yep!!
Exactly! And then do it AGAIN, including the filter, just to get every drop of that nasty, dirty oil out of "my baby".....bleeaaaaaah. dry.gif That way, you're sure to get 250,000 miles out of the engine. Everything else will be shot, of course. tongue.gif
BTW, that oil in my beer glass was about 1200 miles old. It was fine. I change oil when I have the tupperware off for other tinkering. Next scheduled change? Dunno. Don't care.
Trace, Jul 26 2006, 07:02 AM
That is why auto radiators have always been black in the past...works better. dry.gif
Just for grins, I went out and checked both of our vehicles (a '98 Mountaineer and an '04 Sedona) and both have shiny silver aluminum radiators. ?
And now we return to our original oil change programming.........
I received a $30 Honda gift certificate for my B-day back in March so I stopped into my local Honda dealership to pick up some oil and a filter on my way home from work. The parts guy mentioned that the HRCA magazine has a coupon for a free oil filter in it this month and I happened to have it in my tank bag. I left with a gallon of oil, a new filter, and $17 still remaining on my gift certificate. Yes it's just OEM oil/filter but it only totaled $13!........ HRCA guys - Don't let a free filter pass you by. Expires Aug 15.
The mailman, Jul 27 2006, 07:20 PM
Just for grins, I went out and checked both of our vehicles (a '98 Mountaineer and an '04 Sedona) and both have shiny silver aluminum radiators. ?
And now we return to our original oil change programming.........
I received a $30 Honda gift certificate for my B-day back in March so I stopped into my local Honda dealership to pick up some oil and a filter on my way home from work. The parts guy mentioned that the HRCA magazine has a coupon for a free oil filter in it this month and I happened to have it in my tank bag. I left with a gallon of oil, a new filter, and $17 still remaining on my gift certificate. Yes it's just OEM oil/filter but it only totaled $13!........ HRCA guys - Don't let a free filter pass you by. Expires Aug 15.
Yeah, when I wrote that, I reailzed that modern radiators are almost
always shiny. Old rads were always black. I gues the mfgs have it figured out.....when was the last time you had a car overheat that wasn't leaking water. Used to be, darn near anything would overheat. But seriously, black absorbs and radiates heat better than shiny or colors. But....of course....the main reason for that whole effort was to make it purty....the VFR does NOT have overheating or oil failure problems....even when you leave a cup of dirty erl in there.! biggrin.gif
The hyperlites are sweet.....just wish I would have bought another set of the large ones and really blind folks comp13.gif More lights I need MORE LIGHTS!!!!! I can get carried away though. The suspension changes were VERY noticeable as I actaully had to lean the bike more to feel the boots touching....good stuff! So many farkles and so little time, money, and patience from my wife! idea3.gif I need to win the lotto!
offtopic.gif On a side note, anyone heard from 767 Fixxer AKA Eric from Tampa? Anyone?
End of thread · 38 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 24 Jun 2007