First off, Thank you HispanicSLammer & all the rest of you brilliant Minds for your insight of Setting up correct Sag. I have a 2002 VTEC with ABS. I weigh aprox. 160-165 lbs. Setting the front sag at 35mm (2 Lines Showing) & the rear at 32mm. (20 Clicks in from out of 35) Left the Damping to stock setting of 1 1/4 turn out with the Punch mark lined up.
My Trouble is this: Approaching a side street slow to make the trun & the bike almost feels unstable like it wants to fold itself or fall in. It feels so scary to me, I don;t know if it's my head or it seriously the bike.
I know tires contribute to that feeling so last week I replaced the rear tire for new ( METZ Z6) Front tires still looks great (METZ Z6 as well) but does have a little flat run in the middel. Could this little wear on the front tire actually make that much difference when turning NOT CORNERING onto side streets ,,, speed aroun 10-30 miles per hour.
I have played with the REAR PRELOAD & FRONT to no avail. I finally went in tonight & set it back to the sag I mentioned before.
Anyone have any advice for me I would really aprecate it.
I have three Bikes, A VICTORY V92C Cruiser & a HARLEY VROD both of which I can go down side street blazing making turns with ease. I wonder if it's just the RAKE of a VFR that is the uneasy feeling of turning slow around simple streets.
PS: I own this bike 5 years with 16K on the SPEEDO....
Z6's were good tires for me, but the flat spot will give you a squirmy feeling in turn transition. my bike feels like i am riding a trash can under 10 mph. go a little faster with the throttle either neutral or a little power on. with a little power added it should feel rock solid...................
Betting you tighten up your grip when going slow, I did that for along time. Try holding onto the bars with just the tips of your thumb and index finger on the grips.
rolleyes.gif Thanks for the responses, I didn't think a little wear on the front would reek that much havok, but I guess there really isn;t anything else that could do it. I appreciate the Advice on Gripping the bars, I have gotten excellent Abs from you all teaching me to grip with my knees & take pressure off the bars, so that teqnique is definately working so I have to rule that I'm gripping to tightly out. It's just the weirdest feeling. I though mabye getting a bike with a more upright posture on bars would make me have more fun.
If you guys as a group think It's more than likely the tire. It's off to the shop I go this weekend. Thank you again for the insight. The Throttle response at low speeds don't help the matter either. LOL rolleyes.gif
I would bet dollars to donuts it ain't the tire it is lack of throttle and lack of commitment to the turn. I bet yur roll'n off the throttle all the way into the turn and not let'n the bike lay over. Any bike will feel unstable and most notable on the sharp 90 degree right handers if ya do that. Slow more before you start the turn, be off the brakes before ya start the turn and let the bike lay over as ya give a very gentle roll of the throttle.
Motor_Ref, Oct 13 2006, 02:09 PM A rear tire with a flat spot won't help much either. sad.gif
Is everything else OK with the bike? tire pressure, etc?
That is critical. My Azaros are fine now, but when I was running them closer to recommended pressures (35F/40R), the bike flopped into turns. I now run 38F and 36-40R.
you will find there are really only two things that steady a bike, braking (when in a straight line of course) and applying the throttle. Bikes are much more sensitive to throttle application than cars for obvious reasons.
The Biggest way I can describe the feeling of the bike is that it feels like it wants to fold in on itself. Like the wheel is too heavy & folds up, I feel like I have to fight it to smooth it out for the little turn. Agian these are not twisties, JUst regular Neighborhood side street @ about 10-30 miles per hours.
Let me ask something basic just in case. If you know what you are doing I sincerely apologize.
How is it from a stop when taking a left or right turn? If this is trouble I'd say you have a technique problem rather than a mechanical one, as at slow speeds I don't think decent tires would be an issue.
And if you have trouble from stops, my guess is that you need to give it a little more gas (not too much - don't kill yourself). What keeps a bike from falling over in a turn is acceleration. Remember from MSF, you should always be slightly accellerating in a turn as you go through.
If you take a physics class, then it'll be easier to figure out... But, I think 80% load on the rear tire 20 on the front is ideal for turns at any speed.
There are times when I will just roll through with the clutch pulled if it's a seriously slow turn, The throttle is just a littel too twichy to power through slow ones. I will even make sure I am in 3rd gear at times to avoid that on off throttle issue when going slow ....
So here in may be a contributor to my problem, HUH ?
Johnnyrog, Oct 13 2006, 07:22 AM There are times when I will just roll through with the clutch pulled if it's a seriously slow turn, The throttle is just a littel too twichy to power through slow ones. I will even make sure I am in 3rd gear at times to avoid that on off throttle issue when going slow ....
So here in may be a contributor to my problem, HUH ?
Maybe try adjusting the throttle via the locking screws on the throttle cable and see if you can get it to be less twitchy. Mine was the same way until I did this, either no throttle, or more than I wanted in some situations, no between. After the adjustment I could use as little throttle as I wanted.
You DEFINATELY need some throttle in for all turns if you want to be stable (it's that gyroscopic PFM). Even when I'm doing a tight 180, I'll have the throttle cracked for stability and have my foot barely on the rear brake to taylor speed.
I scanned through this thread, lots of contributing factors I think. But I bet the biggest factor is that you are used to riding cruisers that do not turn in quick or handle well at all. Going from a cruiser to a sport bike I think is your biggest issue. The VFR will feel like its going to fall over compared to turning something that is a lot heavier and has a lot more rake like a cuiser. Sounds like you just need to get used to the bike and take the corners a little faster or lean a little less if going slower. If I am wrong and missed something indicating that you've been riding the VFR for a long time, sorry.
EDIT: I see now looking a little closer you've had the bike for a long time. Sorry about that. I'm still willing to bet its just the transition from the cruiser to the sport bike though. How many miles do you put on those cruisers ?
+1.gif on not having the power on, I used to get this myself, almost like the front wheel is wanting to tuck and the handle bars are wanting to turn more than i want. Took me a while to figure it out as it didt do it all the time, eventually worked out that it was having not enough or no power to the rear. I now never just coast, on real slow corners I have a bit of throttle, slip the clutch a bit and modulate the speed with the back brake slightly. Give it a try, worked wonders for me, allows you alot more control of the bike, the clutch is your friend, use it (apart from when going up the gears when I dont bother smile.gif
Let us know how you get on, might be worth fnding a deserted car park and practicing slowish turns so you can really get the feel off it, its what I did, can now turn on full lock at any speed and feel totally comfortable, just my 2p's worth smile.gif
Cozye is on to something here with cruiser to sportbike transition. Cruisers resist turning, mostly because of the trail/rake and the fat rear tire. Comparetively, the VFR will seem pretty twitchy.
I would definitely second the suggestion to get all your braking done before you turn in, and be ready to be at steady throttle by the middle of the corner. That means, matching the throttle to your corner entry speed. This is what keeps you from unpsetting the bike mid-corner. The transition from braking, to steady throttle, to power can be made more smoothly by dragging the rear brake.
Oh, and check that tire pressure. You never mentioned where you keep it, but I find my VFR (00) falls in too quickly if the pressure is below 34psi on my Avons.
Thanks so much gentlemen. For all of your advice. I love this VFR board I am going to go out this morning & give all of your insight a go. It could definatley be Cruiser to Sport Bike transitioning, A big Heavy Cruiser feels easy to control to me, so that could just be it combined with my incorrect technique. My Tire pressure are 36/42 at all times monitored very closely day to day. I am not going to lean as deep into the turn & try to adjust this throttle thing as well. I will look for a tip on the HOW-TO area for doing just that. THANKS AGAIN & I will let you all know tonight my progress!
The VFR has a higher center of gravity than either of your cruisers. This could contribute to the feeling of it "flopping" in a slow corner. Adjusting the throttle was a good suggestion, and as others have said, gently roll on the throttle through the corner. Also, check the measurement of the forks in the triple tree. Raising or lowering the forks will have a big effect on handling. Sixth gen. bikes are set at 41mm from the factory (I think!) so lowering them will increase the "twitchiness", and raising them will make the bike more stable.
cozye, Oct 13 2006, 08:15 AM I scanned through this thread, lots of contributing factors I think. But I bet the biggest factor is that you are used to riding cruisers that do not turn in quick or handle well at all. Going from a cruiser to a sport bike I think is your biggest issue. The VFR will feel like its going to fall over compared to turning something that is a lot heavier and has a lot more rake like a cuiser. Sounds like you just need to get used to the bike and take the corners a little faster or lean a little less if going slower. If I am wrong and missed something indicating that you've been riding the VFR for a long time, sorry.
EDIT: I see now looking a little closer you've had the bike for a long time. Sorry about that. I'm still willing to bet its just the transition from the cruiser to the sport bike though. How many miles do you put on those cruisers ?
That's exactly what I was thinking as well. blink.gif
wingsvfr781, Oct 13 2006, 09:35 AM Also, check the measurement of the forks in the triple tree. Raising or lowering the forks will have a big effect on handling. Sixth gen. bikes are set at 41mm from the factory (I think!) so lowering them will increase the "twitchiness", and raising them will make the bike more stable.
I was going to suggest this, also. When you raise the tubes in the triples [or lower the triples on the tubes, as wings says], it increases turn-in. Too much, and things get a little unstable....kinda like the wheel wants to "fold in", as you put it. Of course, they need to be the same height. The same thing can be accomplished by shimming the rear shock to raise the tail (which is TOTALLY different than increasing preload on the spring, so don't be fooled.)
I have mine [5th Gen] set at 49mm, from the flat top of the tube to the triple. Made it much easier to turn, but it did make my entry into slower tight corners a bit more wobbly. But then, I can't ride for beans anyway, so what do I know! laugh.gif
Anyway, make a check of your tube height setting and let us know.
Well I went out & did everything from adjusting my throttle cable & using some throttle to go through the turn again 5-10-15-20 MPH turns.
No deal, still feels the same, lowered my rear pre-load to see if that would help & nope, same thing. Feels like it fights & wants to slide out on me ...
I will check the fork tube height just fo sh*t & Giggles but it's stock 2002 VTEC settings from factory, I never moved them. It's totally killing my confidence to the point of not wanting to ride the thing, If the front tire could be doing this I will be amazed, seems to really be the only other viable thing to do.
check your front tire pressure. When it's a bit too low, it seems to behave this way. Another thing is to slip the clutch while you adjust your throttle to avoid the jerky feeling of the off on.
I'm no expert, but I know I take city turns a lot better when I'm a bit aggressive and lean the bike instead of passively pulling in the clutch. The throttle can be choppy in first gear, but second smoothes it out as long as I keep moving.
Being in third gear for 10-30mph turns is way too high of a gear, I think. Guys?
I can't tell me how much it means to hear all your thoughts on this subject. I appreciate all the feedback & will try everything suggested. I almost got lurred into buying a Multistrada 1000DS w/ ohlins last week because of this feeling I have with the bike ... Would rather keep the VIFFER !
dry.gif One tidbit that I don't think anyone has mentioned...
At "normal" speeds in turns, and above, the body should be either inline with, or to the inside of the line of the bike.
However, at slow speed turns, MSF advocates using the opposite technique in which you allow the bike to lean and your body stays more upright. (They also suggest dragging the rear brake a little for on-throttle stability, but this direction refers more specifically to the execution of U-turns.)
For my part, I ALWAYS want to be on the throttle through those low speed turns and will sometimes slip the clutch if there is a cage in front of me and I can accelerate at the rate I want to.
I hope any of this helps, if anything it should be reassuring that we ALL have our riding demons and we are ALL anxious to work out the kinks so we can get out and have a good time.
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 18 Oct 2006