after buying my new to me 04 vfr with 4k miles on it ive had some serous issues with cornering/leaning and wrist pain. im always very judgmental on everything i buy but only blame the real culprit as on this one i know it isnt the bike but its tires. they have 25% of the grooves left in the center so i thought i could ride on them until spring. but after truely riding the bike they have to GO IMMEDIATLY! the rear looks square and i didnt even look at the fronts profile as it has to be replaced at the same time anyhow.but im sure it is squared off bad also. i want to do this asap so i can truely see what this bike can do. i was thinking today when doing some cornering "how the hell those guys race these bikes?i cant even lean it on the street" so i knew something was wrong and on such a new bike in showroom shape i went directly to the tires.
the bike has the normal 185/55/17 but has some metlers on it. now my intended purpose of this bike with be a sport/touring role. i ride many days and i wont even kick the vtec in,some days ill ride the vtec and be leaning it as far as i safley can for fun. so i need stickyness but long wear as i just put 5200 miles on my other bike in 4 months. i also want something that can keep an excellent lean also. good wet grip is a plus.
ive hear some like michelin pilot powers. ive been looking at the perelli diablo strada's my only restriction on what i can get is it has to be available at : iron pony its local and i can buy from thier brick and mortor store.
You're going to get as many opinions as there are tire manufacturers.
Most from people who can't ride as well as the tires or bike will allow (me included).
Basically, any of the modern sport-touring tires from a reputable name brand will do you fine, the rest is up to personal preference and experience/mileage.
If anyone can subjectively review tires well enough to nail down the myriad (and often minute) differences between all the different brands of tires given the various riding conditions found on the street (not to mention different motorcycle models), then they probably should be working for a major motorcycle magazine.
So there, you're no further ahead than when you started, eh? laugh.gif
I'm liking my Michelin Pilot Roads. The next guy along will tell you they're crap, he crashed on them and that proves his point. The next guy will tell you that Dunlop is the best because he's ridden on them for 30 years and never bought anything else because they're all crap and Dunlop makes the best tires, so there.
Probably the guy who I'd most likely listen to on this board in regards to tires is BaileyRock. He puts on stupid mileage and burns through several sets of tires per year. I'll save you asking him, he'll tell you to get Pilot Powers. But then, he's also the twist-meister, and has the local roads to prove it.
But if you're like me, have 3 kids, 2 mortgages and a minivan, you need tires that are longer-lasting. Plus, I'm geographically challenged and don't have the kind of roads nearby that I could exploit sticky sport rubber. So, ST tires are it.
You sound more like me in that you won't be playing Ricky Racer on every other ride. Of the two tires you've listed, I'd choose the Diablo Stradas based on the fact that you are seeking decent wear from the tires.
So there, one more opinion to filter. And you know what they say about opinions, everybody has one......
Oh, and if the wrist pain persists, try correcting your posture, and if that doesn't help, get some Gen-Mar risers, Helibars, or Convertibars.
excellent post ty! ill never be good enough to eploit my tires past thier abilities im sure. im like you tho,1 kid a bike payment and im 36. so i will never have a track day in my future nor do i push my bike. even when ive talked about riding my bike hard,its probably nothing compared to what others do. ill just have both those tires on my list when i go shopping and wich ever has what i need in stock and the best price will determine what i get.
i put some cheapo no-names on my ninja and they have worn excellent so far at 3k miles ive put on them and never let me down yet. so im sure any good tire thats brand name thats a s/t should be ok from what youve said.
im 60% sure the wrist issues will clear up after the tire swap.it wasjust as bad with my ninja when i got it also with bad tires. im more a purists where i dont like modifying a bikes characteristics position wise unless mandatory.so ill either strenghten my wrist over time riding it or buy a brace for my right wrist.i already have to use one on my left because of the clutch.that started on my ninja and never went away. carpal tunnel like issues with my hand going numb.but the brace helps alot and its not an issue until now with the vfr and its tires.
Like Rob said "..everybody has one.. For a low budget tire I had a couple of Supermaxx from Maxxis. One front wore out two rears and they got about 5000 miles apiece. Compared to less than 2000 for a Dunlop208 and a Dunlop 207. I'm currently running the Avon Azaro ST45/46 combination and will probably stay with them. Good mileage good wet or dry traction and they replaced a road hazard damaged tire with very little effort. Excellent customer service. Good advice from Rob about the wrist issue, too.
Dutchy, Oct 14 2006, 12:52 PM The longest lasting Sports tire would be the Pirelli Diablo's.
... Stradas! fing02.gif
Cycle Gear has a massive sale right now for the regular Diablos. Even though I'd rather have the Diablo Stradas, I can't pass up a deal like this: Link
I'm a big fan of the Avon ST 45/46. I drove them to Alaska from Phoenix and back with minimal squaring (which a couple miles in twisties fixed). Just got back from a 550 mile trip day trip with serious twisties and I think I run a quick pace. The tires are just now loosing some stick with 8000 miles (little squirm exiting on the rear tire) and if just used for commuting I think they would make it other 3000. That said I haven't run anything but stock tires in comparision on this bike.[image: IPB Image] P1010023.JPG
[image: IPB Image] Avon ST46 with 8000 miles Avon ST46 with 8000 miles
MFP-2241, Oct 14 2006, 10:05 PM ... Stradas! fing02.gif
Cycle Gear has a massive sale right now for the regular Diablos. Even though I'd rather have the Diablo Stradas, I can't pass up a deal like this: Link
correct, the Diablo Strada.....
Although the Strada is no match in performance to say the Michelin Polit Powers, it will still be better performing than say a Metzeler Roadtec Z6. Having seen pictures on this forum of tires worn down to the wires, we have to obey the law here and that states that with a remaining profile of less than 1.6mm, it is toast/illegal.
6 sets were tested on 6 Buell XB12s's diablos would theoretically give you 13,800km front and 7,100 rear vs Michelin PP 2CT's 7,400 and 5,600
But Baileyrock is supposed to be tha man, he uses more rubbers than 10 High School students on Prom Nite. biggrin.gif
Everyone else has covered tires, but I think a bigger issue that will still be there after new rubber is how you are riding the bike. You either have a death grip on the bars, or are leaning on your arms or likely both. As long as you are doing this you will have problems with soar wrists, arms, numb hands, etc and will never have a fine level of control of your motorcycle.
You need to use your legs to hold up all of your weight so that at any time you could remove both hands from the bars without falling forward. This is includes and is especially important while cornering, braking, and at low speeds. Try holding the grips with just the tips of your thumb and index finger, this will force you to do it correctly and get you to think about what you are doing.
Lean on your arm on a desk and at the same time grip a pen in that hand tightly as you can and sign your name. Now do that with a light grip and not putting weight on your arm.
jeremy556, Oct 14 2006, 02:07 PM Everyone else has covered tires, but I think a bigger issue that will still be there after new rubber is how you are riding the bike. You either have a death grip on the bars, or are leaning on your arms or likely both. As long as you are doing this you will have problems with soar wrists, arms, numb hands, etc and will never have a fine level of control of your motorcycle.
You need to use your legs to hold up all of your weight so that at any time you could remove both hands from the bars without falling forward. This is includes and is especially important while cornering, braking, and at low speeds. Try holding the grips with just the tips of your thumb and index finger, this will force you to do it correctly and get you to think about what you are doing.
Lean on your arm on a desk and at the same time grip a pen in that hand tightly as you can and sign your name. Now do that with a light grip and not putting weight on your arm.
+1.gif Exactly what I was going to write... If you want to put your weight on your hands, let go of the bars with your left hand, put your elbow on the gas cap and your chin on your fist. Tada! 491.gif
Seriously though, your comments ALL sound like your riding position isn't quite right. When I made this same discovery, and compensated, I felt like my riding improved by like 50x just from these corrections alone! When I started using the bars to control the motorcycle and NOT just as a place to hold on I start to realize just how much I was getting in the way of the motorcycle doing what it wanted to do. It's always amazing to me how much better a rider I become when I'm light on the bars...
great comparo info on the tires,i know ill be rereading the thread a few times to help make up my mind on wich too buy. i will say my riding position very well could be wrong.the reason is i changed it and put the weight on my wrist and my butt back further on the seat as that was the only way i was able to get the bike to lean more naturaly.i originally started riding it like i do my ninja,like im humping the tank. but i almost overshot a corner as i couldnt get it over at all. i found by moving back on the seat and getting my weight back more i could lean it. but this caused the issues with my wrists.
once the tires are done im sure everything will fall into place. i do make mistakes,im a noob at this still. but one thing ive learned is ride the bike like it lets you,not how you want to. specifically what i mean is if i can lean it better a from a certain position thats what ill do,even if its uncomfy and hurts.
i will go threw all this advice tomorrow again and take the bike out.and see just how things react. i know my wrist will be fine when im humping the tank again.as my weight is more forward and my knees grip the tank better and my wrists arent holding me up,and also cranking the bars.
serously when you take a corner on your bike when you countersteer im useing almost all my strength to countersteer just to get it over.this is even with my butt on the back of the seat.if i wasnt id never get a lean at all and be overshooting corners into the ditch.and im no weak small guy.im 6"4" 250lbs and not real fat.
im just being safe for now.and honestly this is what i went threw with my previous bike.
if necessary ill take pics of teh rear tire for you guys but im sure you know what a squared tire looks like.
awlittle, Oct 14 2006, 04:21 PM I'm a big fan of the Avon ST 45/46. I drove them to Alaska from Phoenix and back with minimal squaring (which a couple miles in twisties fixed). Just got back from a 550 mile trip day trip with serious twisties and I think I run a quick pace. The tires are just now loosing some stick with 8000 miles (little squirm exiting on the rear tire) and if just used for commuting I think they would make it other 3000. That said I haven't run anything but stock tires in comparision on this bike.
I'm going add a +1.gif for the Avons, I am on my second set now, and I like them a lot. I also got about 8000 miles from my first set, and I was happy with the traction too:
[image: IPB Image] USA TOUR 2006 119.jpg The Avons liked Mt. Lemmon!!
Deathstar13, Oct 14 2006, 06:58 PMserously when you take a corner on your bike when you countersteer im useing almost all my strength to countersteer just to get it over.this is even with my butt on the back of the seat.if i wasnt id never get a lean at all and be overshooting corners into the ditch.and im no weak small guy.im 6"4" 250lbs and not real fat.
Unless you are going over 150 mph it doesn't take much force to counter steer a bike. The reason it is difficult is because you are fighting against yourself.
Put your toes on the foot pegs, support your weight with your legs. Go through some turns with just one hand on the bars, I bet turning will be much easier. Also try holding on to the bars with just finger tips, some also have success with flapping their arms like a chicken to stay loose.
jeremy556, Oct 14 2006, 06:34 PM Unless you are going over 150 mph it doesn't take much force to counter steer a bike. The reason it is difficult is because you are fighting against yourself.
+1.gif I used to have this problem. I would push really really hard on the inside bar, and slightly less hard on the outside bar. You just work against yourself that way.
Try pulling on the outside grip instead of pushing the inside. It only takes light touches. Now go through a left hander and wave at oncoming traffic with your left hand. Harley guys coming the other way will drop their jaw.
jeremy556, Oct 14 2006, 07:34 PM Unless you are going over 150 mph it doesn't take much force to counter steer a bike. The reason it is difficult is because you are fighting against yourself.
Put your toes on the foot pegs, support your weight with your legs. Go through some turns with just one hand on the bars, I bet turning will be much easier. Also try holding on to the bars with just finger tips, some also have success with flapping their arms like a chicken to stay loose.
+1.gif Definately sounds like a deathgrip, Deathstar.
Chev, Oct 14 2006, 04:53 PM Try pulling on the outside grip instead of pushing the inside. It only takes light touches.
Some of the popular books on technique advocate focusing on just "pushing" the bars with one hand rather than pushing/pulling that we all started on our first bicycle. (Not to split hairs, but I think "they" advocate a push rather than pull only because a slip while pulling on the right grip would give you a fistful of throttle!) smile.gif
I feel like I have much more leverage when I focus on turning by just pushing on the one side and trying to stay loose on the other. The VFR feels slower/heavier when turning in than the more flickable 600's, but I find that with one hand I can push that thing to lean a lot deeper and faster than I have the stones for without working too hard. For what it's worth...
Read the tire reviews on the home page. I made my own helibars. The stock bars are about 5 degrees downhill. Mine are perpindicular to the riser. That was my answer to wrist pain.
ill look at the avons also,ive heard good things prior about them.
i dont know what to say about the rest.i know you guys are trying to help,but doesnt anyone think it could be the square tires and not the rider?serously ive tried every body position possible on this bike. and it isnt my first day on a sportbike. sure my position im useing now is causing my wrist problems,but the bike is forcing me to do that.
The stock bars do kinda cock the wrist inward and the hand outward, they have alot of rear sweep, good for pushin corners. If not for the nubbs I'd rotate the clipons forward more, just dont want to grind off my nubbs.
Deathstar13, Oct 14 2006, 09:43 PM ill look at the avons also,ive heard good things prior about them.
i dont know what to say about the rest.i know you guys are trying to help,but doesnt anyone think it could be the square tires and not the rider?serously ive tried every body position possible on this bike. and it isnt my first day on a sportbike. sure my position im useing now is causing my wrist problems,but the bike is forcing me to do that.
Sorry, but no. Tires are not going to effect wrist pain. Your crap tires may leave something to be desired for turn in feel and ultimate grip, but Rossi can still turn a faster lap than anyone here on some 12 year old, dry rotted, squared off, cheng-shin tires on a clapped out old bike that is falling apart.
jeremy556, Oct 14 2006, 10:27 PM Sorry, but no. Tires are not going to effect wrist pain. Your crap tires may leave something to be desired for turn in feel and ultimate grip, but Rossi can still turn a faster lap than anyone here on some 12 year old, dry rotted, squared off, cheng-shin tires on a clapped out old bike that is falling apart.
sorry to sound like such a jerk last night.after having this issues and being tired from a long day i wasnt in a great mood. anyhow i know the bike should handle just perfect in a corner as ive never heard of anyone else complain like this. heres my thoughts for the day on the subject.
my ninja has 130/90/16 rear tires and teh front is even smaller. this has hardly no centrifical force unlike the big meat on the back of the vfr. it has a "weeble-wobble" affect i call it as you "can lean it,but it wont fall down" it just wants to upright itself and i feel im fighting this self righting affect in the lean. so basically it may very well just be im not used to the centrifical force of the bigger tires also.
i do know i will go back to humping the tank wich had a much more nuetral/sports positioning ergos to it. i stopped useing this position when i had the 20 psi in the tires and didnt know it.and never retried teh position after proper inflation.
ive been told elsewhere i may need to set the suspension up for my weight as i havent adjusted it at all since i didnt get an owners manual with the bike being used. if someone feels that can cause more issues ill definetly research how to set it up correctly.but its felt good to me so far.
again im sorry if i came off a little rough,im just frustrated at this point as i just want to enjoy the bike and not be fighting it. it would be alot easier if i had one of you guys try it out in person. i did meet another vfr rider locally to me from these boards and i hope to setup a ride together sometime soon.this should happen before i buy new rubber so i can let him take it a spin and see if hes feeling what i am.or at least show me how he rides his.
i swear i never have an easy time learning to ride a new bike. my ninja was actually even worse than this experiance at first.
my ninja has 130/90/16 rear tires and teh front is even smaller. this has hardly no centrifical force unlike the big meat on the back of the vfr. it has a "weeble-wobble" affect i call it as you "can lean it,but it wont fall down" it just wants to upright itself and i feel im fighting this self righting affect in the lean. so basically it may very well just be im not used to the centrifical force of the bigger tires also.
ive been told elsewhere i may need to set the suspension up for my weight as i havent adjusted it at all since i didnt get an owners manual with the bike being used. if someone feels that can cause more issues ill definetly research how to set it up correctly.but its felt good to me so far.
Where are you located, there may be someone local to you that could help you out? Changing from a 130 rear to a 180 will certainly make a big difference on turn in. Also the profile of the tires are probably what is making it want to stand up. Get a good set of sport tires and your suspension setup you can set your lean angle then release the bars and it will stay where you left it. If you look in the how-to section, or search for "sag" you will find a post by HispanicSlammer that shows an easy way to set your preload correctly.
im located 20 miles south of columbus ohio.i met someone from here who we are planning on a ride next weekend.if he feels comfortable enough ill have him take a quik ride on my bike and see if he feels what im talking about also.
your post this time makes me feel alot more confident its something that can be corrected. either by my style,tires or suspension.
ill also look up that post and get my suspension correct for my weight also.
its always hard for me to get threw these times as i have such little experiance and i havent been on other bikes so i never know what something should be doing as i never have anything to compare with.
once this isssue is cleared up i think it will be even easier to put into a corner than my ninja.it has a much more planted feel i know that.
i went today and did a small ride despite the fact i feel like crap. anyhow i checked my tire pressure again to make sure they are staying inflated,wich they are. i went back to riding like i was humping the tank and holding it with my legs. i also moved my levers down to the lowest angle i could until the resivours restricted more movement.
my wrist feel great,and it leans great now. and its not pulling my upright as bad now either. the tires are still noticably squared but it isnt such an issue now.
incase anyone missed why i was having issues ill repeat the problem. when i bought the bike it had low air pressure in the tires which i didnt know was 20psi at the time. this caused me to sit as far back on the seat as i could to get it to lean at all. in turn this caused my wrist pain. i then found the low psi issues and corrected them but never corrected my seating position,as i was still on the back of the seat.
so in the end it was my seating position creating the bad lean issues and wrist pain. but had the dealer never sent me on my way with 20 psi in the tires i feel this would have never happened.
so ty to everyone for thier comments and patience! i may replace teh tires anyhow in 2 weeks but they can actually wait until spring if need be.
ill look at my finances in 2 weeks. i trust the tires on it,ive never even heard them chirp yet. its just a bit harder to get them to lean over as they wanna right themselves until i get off the flat center.but i am able to hold it in a lean rather easy now. but id bet if i put mr lincoln in the center tread they would fail.
I hear you man, i have bad carpal tunnel wrists after years of keyboard use, some of which wasn't the ergo experience one would wish. Hilibars and proper technic were the key for me. Even then going down a twisty mountain is tricky. Its very difficult to keep weight off the wrists pulling a tight down hill curve. Good luck to you. That being said, I have very little tire experience but changing from the crap that came on my bike to the Michelin Pilot Powers was nothing less then awesome.
VFRVeryFunRide, Oct 15 2006, 08:37 PM I hear you man, i have bad carpal tunnel wrists after years of keyboard use, some of which wasn't the ergo experience one would wish. Hilibars and proper technic were the key for me. Even then going down a twisty mountain is tricky. Its very difficult to keep weight off the wrists pulling a tight down hill curve. Good luck to you. That being said, I have very little tire experience but changing from the crap that came on my bike to the Michelin Pilot Powers was nothing less then awesome.
when i rode today i made sure i could ride with just my hands laying on the bars with no real contact.just enough to hold the throttle anyhow. once i was able to get my position corrected im sitting almost upright anyhow. i had no pain at all today.
it will be down to the power pilots and the diablo strada's when i buy. im gonna do it if money is there as i know ill enjoy the bike even more. i know it was night and day handling wise when i bought new rubber for my ninja
when i rode today i made sure i could ride with just my hands laying on the bars with no real contact.just enough to hold the throttle anyhow. once i was able to get my position corrected im sitting almost upright anyhow. i had no pain at all today.
it will be down to the power pilots and the diablo strada's when i buy. im gonna do it if money is there as i know ill enjoy the bike even more. i know it was night and day handling wise when i bought new rubber for my ninja
You should probably go with the stradas. With your experience and comfort level, the difference between the Powers and Stradas probably won't be much, but the Stradas will last a lot longer and still have a nice V shaped profile for nice easy turn in.
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 18 Oct 2006