Finished my day long 'rip my bike apart session', did some much needed cleanup and rewiring in the process. 8 hours later, just in time for night time test ride. they are really really really bright. I changed to the Sylvania Silverstars back in July, but decided to go ahead and change out to the HID, just because I always loved the way they looked. So, heres my pics. This was my Christmas present to myself fing02.gif
tinyminds, Dec 31 2006, 03:56 AMFinished my day long 'rip my bike apart session', did some much needed cleanup and rewiring in the process. 8 hours later, just in time for night time test ride. they are really really really bright. I changed to the Sylvania Silverstars back in July, but decided to go ahead and change out to the HID, just because I always loved the way they looked. So, heres my pics. This was my Christmas present to myself fing02.gif
How is the side to side coverage with the HID units? I added some HID's to my wifes van, and the difference is incredible.
How is the long range lighting?
Are you able to aim the beams down enough to not blind oncoming traffic?
Very cool, congrats!!
Side to side and long range is incredibally better than stock or Silvania. Adjustment doesn't happen, I haven't really ridden a lot with them to see how many people I blind but it appears that might be a slight problem. Hope not, we will have to see.
chrisford, Dec 30 2006, 11:04 PMWhat kind and where did you get the parts for the conversion?
I got them from a guy on this forum but you can get them on Ebay I know.
They are expensive. I got the 2 for $210. You can just search for 'HID Conversion Kit H4' I have the 6000k set. The higher in number you go, the blue'er you get. Supposively the 4800k is the whitest there are, but the 6000k I have seems as white as white can be to me, the only blue you can see is a little bit when you get a reflection off street signs and road signs.
For those that care, it was really simple hookup. All you do is plug in the Red and Black wire into the Positive and Negitive of the normal low bulb connector, no cutting or tapping into wires. The time consuming part was figuring out where and how I was going to mount the big ballasts. They don't look as big on in pics as they are in person. I would guess they are 3"x3"x1". You can see from the pic where I ended up mounting it.
oyama, Dec 30 2006, 11:16 PMAre not the HID light are illegal on motorcycles in Florida? unsure.gif Anyway, they look awesome I cannot wait to see those lights in person!
Are they? Hmm, hope not. They cop that lives in front of me came over earlier asking what I was up to, and I showed him, he didn't say anything. Guess someone will have to pull me over before I'll worry about it. I still have Kentucky Plates so maybe that would help me a little =P
CementHead, Dec 30 2006, 11:28 PMCool, nicely done.
I'm interested to learn whether using high beams, in addition, adds anything at all to the light output. Let us know, please.
High beams are not even noticable when they are on anymore. I tried. The HID's overwhelm them Only time you can see the high beams over the HID's is when its shining against the wall in my garage and you can see the small bit of yellow light about 3 inches above the center of the HID's light. Before installing these I thought about getting the HID high beams also, but besides it being rediculous overkill, I don't know where you would put the ballast's at. The two for low beams was bad enough.
tinyminds, Dec 31 2006, 04:14 AMThe time consuming part was figuring out where and how I was going to mount the big ballasts. They don't look as big on in pics as they are in person. I would guess they are 3"x3"x1". You can see from the pic where I ended up mounting it.
Do the ballast get hot? My limited experience with florescent ballast is they do get hot so mounting them next to the computers wouldn't be ideal.
tinyminds, Dec 30 2006, 11:22 PMAre they? Hmm, hope not. They cop that lives in front of me came over earlier asking what I was up to, and I showed him, he didn't say anything. Guess someone will have to pull me over before I'll worry about it. I still have Kentucky Plates so maybe that would help me a little =P
Yes, they are not DOT, so they are illegal. You are unlikely to get a ticket for it as long as avoid places like Clearwater Beach.
Snafu, Dec 30 2006, 11:45 PMLet us know if people end up flashing you.
Uh, I'm assuming you meant "flashing their brights" at you.
Looks good. I would think you're unlikely to get a ticket for it unless you're stopped for some other reason and the LEO really has it in for you - or if you're being a jerk and the LEO writes you up for everything he/she can think of!
CementHead, Dec 30 2006, 11:28 PMCool, nicely done.
I'm interested to learn whether using high beams, in addition, adds anything at all to the light output. Let us know, please.
High beams are not even noticable when they are on anymore. I tried. The HID's overwhelm them Only time you can see the high beams over the HID's is when its shining against the wall in my garage and you can see the small bit of yellow light about 3 inches above the center of the HID's light. Before installing these I thought about getting the HID high beams also, but besides it being rediculous overkill, I don't know where you would put the ballast's at. The two for low beams was bad enough.
Thank you.
The highs certainly sound like overkill. Is there a "warm-up" time for the bulbs? I think that you may not notice it for the lows, but it might make a difference for highs.
So, now we wait for the flashing/alignment issues... You say that you've had some indication that people are flashing at you already?
CementHead, Dec 30 2006, 11:28 PMCool, nicely done.
I'm interested to learn whether using high beams, in addition, adds anything at all to the light output. Let us know, please.
High beams are not even noticable when they are on anymore. I tried. The HID's overwhelm them Only time you can see the high beams over the HID's is when its shining against the wall in my garage and you can see the small bit of yellow light about 3 inches above the center of the HID's light. Before installing these I thought about getting the HID high beams also, but besides it being rediculous overkill, I don't know where you would put the ballast's at. The two for low beams was bad enough.
Thank you.
The highs certainly sound like overkill. Is there a "warm-up" time for the bulbs? I think that you may not notice it for the lows, but it might make a difference for highs.
So, now we wait for the flashing/alignment issues... You say that you've had some indication that people are flashing at you already?
Warm-up time = about 5-10 seconds. You can see them as they warm up, they turn sky blue then get whiter and whiter.
As far as getting flashed already, I haven't ridden enough yet, just down the street and back. I use to get about one flash per 1000 miles with the Silverstars though, so I'm sure this will be a little worse.
One thing I did forget to mention, I had to put a 25amp fuse in the factory headlight fuse slot. It blew 3, 20 amp fuses as soon as they turned on. After blowing the first one, I took everything back apart to make sure there wasn't any cuts or slices somewhere along the wires causing a short. Hookups pretty dummy proof, 2 wires. So, after inspecting twice everything, I just put a 25amp fuse in and no problems so far. I haven't done any research yet to see if others have had this problem, but it solved my problem. I'll be keeping a couple extra 25 amp fuses and a 30 amp with me for emergency purposes in case it poses a problem later. I plan to do some research and see if others have experienced the same though sometime or another.
tinyminds, Dec 31 2006, 05:46 PMWarm-up time = about 5-10 seconds. You can see them as they warm up, they turn sky blue then get whiter and whiter.
As far as getting flashed already, I haven't ridden enough yet, just down the street and back. I use to get about one flash per 1000 miles with the Silverstars though, so I'm sure this will be a little worse.
One thing I did forget to mention, I had to put a 25amp fuse in the factory headlight fuse slot. It blew 3, 20 amp fuses as soon as they turned on. After blowing the first one, I took everything back apart to make sure there wasn't any cuts or slices somewhere along the wires causing a short. Hookups pretty dummy proof, 2 wires. So, after inspecting twice everything, I just put a 25amp fuse in and no problems so far. I haven't done any research yet to see if others have had this problem, but it solved my problem. I'll be keeping a couple extra 25 amp fuses and a 30 amp with me for emergency purposes in case it poses a problem later. I plan to do some research and see if others have experienced the same though sometime or another.
Cool stuff! As an electrician the only other thing i could say to you is because you changed the fuse to a bigger fuse you should keep an eye on the wires. The fuse will let more current to flow and the wires may not be able to handle it, over time they could get warm or even hot and start to cause you problems. ( thats how people burn their houses down )
Poncho, Dec 31 2006, 01:19 PMhey I thought HID's used less power to run?
I thought so too. 'shrugs'. Supposively the warmup takes about 2x more juice than stock bulbs pulled, but after they are warmed up, it uses about 1/2 the juice the stock bulbs used. Fuses always blew instantly when I turned bike on ( during warmup ).
I have that 5 year warranty, kybillyjackjimbob proved that warranty covers bike fires. So if something catches on fire, I'll be spending days unwiring and putting everything back to stock before taking it to Honda =P
tinyminds, Dec 31 2006, 11:26 AMI thought so too. 'shrugs'. Supposively the warmup takes about 2x more juice than stock bulbs pulled, but after they are warmed up, it uses about 1/2 the juice the stock bulbs used. Fuses always blew instantly when I turned bike on ( during warmup ).
The VFR I bought came with HID's that the previous owner took out because he wanted to sell them seperate. Put an inline switch with the headlights so when you turn your bike on the headlights are off. Once you have the bike idling then turn the HID's on. At least that was what they previous owner did and he never mentioned any problems about blowing fuses.
HID's are not legal on any vehicle that has not had a housing specifically designed for HID's because of the intensity of the output. I am no expert but standard light housings use a reflective system to increase out put of the standard bulb. HID designed housings do not and use only the bulb/lense to project light. If you can find a way to aim them down it might be in your best interest to do so. After all you don't want to be blinding oncoming traffic. You know how those cagers end up turning where they are looking and if they are looking at your HID's.... comp13.gif
tinyminds, Dec 31 2006, 12:26 PMI have that 5 year warranty, kybillyjackjimbob proved that warranty covers bike fires. So if something catches on fire, I'll be spending days unwiring and putting everything back to stock before taking it to Honda =P
Yeah, you better set it back on fire a second time too then.
That would look really suspicious.... a soot covered bike with some really nice/new looking red and green wires heading to the headlights.
"Oh yeah, could you guys haul that to my house, not the insurance impound? I really need to do some work to that before Honda sees it."
I think if it were me I would run the whole set-up through a meter and veryify it is really only pulling >20amp during warm-up. If it is pulling >20amp even after it is warmed up then you are heading down the road toward crispy wires.
Hell, Honda only wires their "30amp" blue connector for about 15 amp.
I would definetly run dedicated wiring direct from the battery using a relay and the stock low-beam 12v supply only to power the relay.
Find out exactly how many amps (total) the HID's pull during startup. The inrush current would really suprise you and I bet that the stock headlight switch is not up to the task, neither are the wires, etc as you found out by blowing a fuse.
Benefit to wiring direct off the battery is that your bulb warmup time will be drastically reduced. Find out what the minimum wire size is to safely handle the inrush current during startup and go one size bigger for an extra precaution. Make sure the relay is similarly sized.
Using the stock low-beam 12v supply to power the relay means that the headlights will come on with the key and shut off with the key. Simple.
Also, they will cut out when you hit the starter button as well.
Then you can return the headlight fuse to the standard rated one and have no worries.
Don't forget to put in a fuse as close to the battery as possible to protect your new circuit. It too will have to be sized to handle the inrush current plus a working margin.
veefer800canuck, Dec 31 2006, 10:07 PMI would definetly run dedicated wiring direct from the battery using a relay and the stock low-beam 12v supply only to power the relay.
Find out exactly how many amps (total) the HID's pull during startup. The inrush current would really suprise you and I bet that the stock headlight switch is not up to the task, neither are the wires, etc as you found out by blowing a fuse.
Benefit to wiring direct off the battery is that your bulb warmup time will be drastically reduced. Find out what the minimum wire size is to safely handle the inrush current during startup and go one size bigger for an extra precaution. Make sure the relay is similarly sized.
Using the stock low-beam 12v supply to power the relay means that the headlights will come on with the key and shut off with the key. Simple.
Also, they will cut out when you hit the starter button as well.
Then you can return the headlight fuse to the standard rated one and have no worries.
Don't forget to put in a fuse as close to the battery as possible to protect your new circuit. It too will have to be sized to handle the inrush current plus a working margin.
Hmm, good idea. Any clue how to test how many amps it is pulling on startup like you mentioned above then? I didn't think of using a relay for them but since you mention it, that would probably be a much better setup for the wiring thats on the bike, given that we already know the 20amp fuse, let alone the wiring can't handle the startup load. Thanks for the idea. Guess that gives me something to do tomorrow.
Another note on things I saw tonight while riding. These particular bulbs have a metal shield around the bottom 120 degrees of the bulb itself, stop the light from traveling down to the reflective housing which would reflect the light at an upward angle, hint directly at people's eye level. It still has a pretty wide range of lighting, but the shield helps dramatically compared to looking at the light intensity from its reflection of the top 240 degrees.
tinyminds, Dec 31 2006, 08:18 PMHmm, good idea. Any clue how to test how many amps it is pulling on startup like you mentioned above then? I didn't think of using a relay for them but since you mention it, that would probably be a much better setup for the wiring thats on the bike, given that we already know the 20amp fuse, let alone the wiring can't handle the startup load. Thanks for the idea. Guess that gives me something to do tomorrow.
The current drawn by the ballasts should be listed somewhere, hopefully on the outside of the ballasts.
You're looking for max. startup current, not the stabilized running current.
I don't know the Mfgr of your ballasts, but from what I have been able to gather by some quick gOOgling, H-4 conversion type ballasts typically draw around 10.5A @ 13.2V Max. That's for just one ballast, so your pair of ballasts should be in the neighborhood of 21Amps upon startup, assuming no voltage drop. More like 23 amps at 12 volts.
More amps will be drawn at lesser voltages, so if the wires are undersized and you have significant voltage drop, it'll make the fuse situation worse.
If the HID bulbs are 35w (times 2), they should draw around 5.3A @13.2v or 5.8A @12v once fully warmed up and functioning.
So since you have two ballasts, I would be looking at making a 30A circuit to handle the inrush current. Plenty of 12v 30a relays to be had.
Look at the wire size the manufacturer provided with the ballasts for the 12v feed going into the ballasts and go one size larger than that. You should be safe then.
But in reality you need to take the relay advice given above. If you are smoking 20 amp fuses and have moved up to 25 amp fuses, you are beyond Honda's anemic wiring. Don't know much about HID ballasts but you could be risking smoking them with undervolt. Voltage drops due to anemic wiring, current shoots up, something will let out pungent smoke.
Don't even mess with measuring current. Put a 20 amp fuse back in, drop in a relay and run power straight from your DC aux fuse block that you have hopefully already installed.
tinyminds, Dec 31 2006, 08:18 PMHmm, good idea. Any clue how to test how many amps it is pulling on startup like you mentioned above then? I didn't think of using a relay for them but since you mention it, that would probably be a much better setup for the wiring thats on the bike, given that we already know the 20amp fuse, let alone the wiring can't handle the startup load. Thanks for the idea. Guess that gives me something to do tomorrow.
The current drawn by the ballasts should be listed somewhere, hopefully on the outside of the ballasts.
You're looking for max. startup current, not the stabilized running current.
I don't know the Mfgr of your ballasts, but from what I have been able to gather by some quick gOOgling, H-4 conversion type ballasts typically draw around 10.5A @ 13.2V Max. That's for just one ballast, so your pair of ballasts should be in the neighborhood of 21Amps upon startup, assuming no voltage drop. More like 23 amps at 12 volts.
More amps will be drawn at lesser voltages, so if the wires are undersized and you have significant voltage drop, it'll make the fuse situation worse.
If the HID bulbs are 35w (times 2), they should draw around 5.3A @13.2v or 5.8A @12v once fully warmed up and functioning.
So since you have two ballasts, I would be looking at making a 30A circuit to handle the inrush current. Plenty of 12v 30a relays to be had.
Look at the wire size the manufacturer provided with the ballasts for the 12v feed going into the ballasts and go one size larger than that. You should be safe then.
Thanks for research, will put it to use.
I might have to play with that and see how it works Lee2002. I haven't really messed w/ fluke meter much.
tinyminds, Dec 31 2006, 08:18 PMHmm, good idea. Any clue how to test how many amps it is pulling on startup like you mentioned above then? I didn't think of using a relay for them but since you mention it, that would probably be a much better setup for the wiring thats on the bike, given that we already know the 20amp fuse, let alone the wiring can't handle the startup load. Thanks for the idea. Guess that gives me something to do tomorrow.
The current drawn by the ballasts should be listed somewhere, hopefully on the outside of the ballasts.
You're looking for max. startup current, not the stabilized running current.
I don't know the Mfgr of your ballasts, but from what I have been able to gather by some quick gOOgling, H-4 conversion type ballasts typically draw around 10.5A @ 13.2V Max. That's for just one ballast, so your pair of ballasts should be in the neighborhood of 21Amps upon startup, assuming no voltage drop. More like 23 amps at 12 volts.
More amps will be drawn at lesser voltages, so if the wires are undersized and you have significant voltage drop, it'll make the fuse situation worse.
If the HID bulbs are 35w (times 2), they should draw around 5.3A @13.2v or 5.8A @12v once fully warmed up and functioning.
So since you have two ballasts, I would be looking at making a 30A circuit to handle the inrush current. Plenty of 12v 30a relays to be had.
Look at the wire size the manufacturer provided with the ballasts for the 12v feed going into the ballasts and go one size larger than that. You should be safe then.
Thanks for research, will put it to use.
I might have to play with that and see how it works Lee2002. I haven't really messed w/ fluke meter much.
hook me up with that dyno run and i can hook you up with a clamp meter tongue.gif
Haha, do some talking w/ the Aprillia and get them to get there program in MMI then maybe I could get by w/ it. Wish would could get some Italian brands in school.
tinyminds, Jan 1 2007, 12:23 AMHaha, do some talking w/ the Aprillia and get them to get there program in MMI then maybe I could get by w/ it. Wish would could get some Italian brands in school.
tinyminds, Dec 30 2006, 11:14 PMThey don't look as big on in pics as they are in person. I would guess they are 3"x3"x1". You can see from the pic where I ended up mounting it.
For those who'd like a smaller box...2.5"Wx3"Lx.5"H
tinyminds, Dec 30 2006, 11:14 PMThey don't look as big on in pics as they are in person. I would guess they are 3"x3"x1". You can see from the pic where I ended up mounting it.
For those who'd like a smaller box...2.5"Wx3"Lx.5"H
Ummm... all current and even first gen HID ballast/igniters used for vehicles were always "digital". The old core and coils used on Metal-Halide and High Intensity Discharge systems would not have survived the rough environment (constant shock and vibration) that it would have experienced in a vehicle. Not to mention the slow power-up, huge size and weight it would have brought along.
Ok so more info now. After doing research and testing, heres the following info I've found. I tested amperage draw to get exact numbers, on startup they are pulling together about 23.2amps peak. That explains the instant fuse popping of the factory 20amp fuse. So changing to 25 amp fuse fixed the problem, but left the question about wire load capability. In the 6th Gen VFR's wiring through every circuit needed to get to the headlights, the lowest wire 'load' is in one of the main harness connectors at a 30amp capacity peak ( most the circuits and switches, etc have nearly 2.5x the load capability of the wires, so that also should pose no problem). The wires physically hooking into the back of the bulbs have a load capacity of 35amps. So keeping this factory wiring w/o a relay shouldn't cause any problems. Warmup time is the onlything really effected. I took wire temps of the wires going into the connector that attaches to the back of the bulbs, same one use to hookup HID Ballasts, and theres only about a 1.25F degrees difference in Silverstars to the HID on startup (HID Warmer), not enough to effect anything on the 6th gen. So, after this research, I've decided to leave the hooked up direct instead of using a relay. Maybe this will confort some peoples minds if you decide to do this mod.
So far so good. Love the lights, had several other people ask me what kind they are. Haven't been flashed yet, they keep prettywell pointed down.
And I am gonna be the dumb ass that asks here but?? We have just moved and both the bike and manual are on the moving truck on their way here to Indiana. Without being able to look, are they H4's?? This is a cool project to get on while its this cold outside. Forgot to mention, it is a 2006 in that sparkly black, yeah baby.
tinyminds, Dec 30 2006, 11:32 PMHigh beams are not even noticable when they are on anymore. I tried.
Hmm.. Are you sure your lights are aimed properly? There is quite a difference between the stock low and hi-beam in terms of light path and spread. One would think that your lowbeam is aimed too high if you can't see the hi-beam, which would be extremely annoying to other traffic, not to mention that it will be much harder to see your turn-signals and estimate your speed. I know you said they are pointed way down, so that's good, leave it to others to signal outer space with their beams. If you can, compare your aim with a properly fitted stock HID setup in a car (no aftermarket, DIY, Ebay), aim at a wall from 50-100 feet or so and make sure you have no leak on the bike going outside of the cut off of the car's lights. If you go for a ride at night, I'm sure you will see the hi-beam light up higher and wider (but not stronger) than your lows, and also the low beams should not light up anything above the license plates of regular cars, if that is not the case something is wrong with your setup and I urge you to fix it ASAP.
Sorry for the rant, nothing personal, I just hate being blinded by idiots using high-beam when they shouldn't and poorly adjusts DIY brights, looks like you're doing it sensibly. Cool mod, best of luck with the electrical!
tinyminds, Dec 30 2006, 11:32 PMHigh beams are not even noticable when they are on anymore. I tried.
Hmm.. Are you sure your lights are aimed properly? There is quite a difference between the stock low and hi-beam in terms of light path and spread. One would think that your lowbeam is aimed too high if you can't see the hi-beam, which would be extremely annoying to other traffic, not to mention that it will be much harder to see your turn-signals and estimate your speed. I know you said they are pointed way down, so that's good, leave it to others to signal outer space with their beams. If you can, compare your aim with a properly fitted stock HID setup in a car (no aftermarket, DIY, Ebay), aim at a wall from 50-100 feet or so and make sure you have no leak on the bike going outside of the cut off of the car's lights. If you go for a ride at night, I'm sure you will see the hi-beam light up higher and wider (but not stronger) than your lows, and also the low beams should not light up anything above the license plates of regular cars, if that is not the case something is wrong with your setup and I urge you to fix it ASAP.
Sorry for the rant, nothing personal, I just hate being blinded by idiots using high-beam when they shouldn't and poorly adjusts DIY brights, looks like you're doing it sensibly. Cool mod, best of luck with the electrical!
its already been stated....the HID wasnt made for a standard reflector so its reflecting light more "everywhere" than in a pre-designed HID system. its not a matter of aim as tinyminds has stated, as he quoted earlier, its the amount of light output and how its being reflected
767fixer, Jan 10 2007, 12:52 AMits already been stated....the HID wasnt made for a standard reflector so its reflecting light more "everywhere" than in a pre-designed HID system. its not a matter of aim as tinyminds has stated, as he quoted earlier, its the amount of light output and how its being reflected
So adjusting the stock headlight aim on the reflector will have no significant effect with HIDs?
Hey V4Rosso, where did you find that kit, and why hasn't anyone used the hi beam kit too? It may be overkill but traveling back roads loaded with wildlife leaves me wishing for more everytime I come home from work.
767fixer, Jan 10 2007, 12:52 AMits already been stated....the HID wasnt made for a standard reflector so its reflecting light more "everywhere" than in a pre-designed HID system. its not a matter of aim as tinyminds has stated, as he quoted earlier, its the amount of light output and how its being reflected
So adjusting the stock headlight aim on the reflector will have no significant effect with HIDs?
it will still aim the light, but no matter what, the light will still be more dispersed
trekuk, Jan 10 2007, 05:13 PMSo adjusting the stock headlight aim on the reflector will have no significant effect with HIDs?
The small amount of light thats not pointing where it should isn't adjustable no matter what you do. The light is coming direction from the bulb itself, not the reflector, theres no cover over the front of the bulb, or silver paint stuff covering the front tip from projecting light straight forward or upward. By the design of these lights, there's no way to can eliminate that unwanted light with the factory light housing.
rafartist, Jan 10 2007, 09:42 PMHey V4Rosso, where did you find that kit, and why hasn't anyone used the hi beam kit too? It may be overkill but traveling back roads loaded with wildlife leaves me wishing for more everytime I come home from work.
I personally wasn't willing to pay another $200 for the high beams that I would rarely use.
End of thread · 50 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 24 Jun 2007
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