Last night on the way home from work in the wet I got the opportunity to test how good these linked brakes actually are.
After a long hard day at the classroom, riding along at 35 in the middle of Lincoln city centre; then suddenly, a woman driver came out of nowhere and stopped right in front of me! I had very little time to react but I did, somehow, instinctively (I see the car first in my peripheral vision).. I pulled in the front brake (only) progressively but quickly and I came to a stop an inch from her car door. I am amazed with how stable the VFR behaved under such extreme braking, wet roads and it saved me and my bike from disaster! Thanks Honda.
Congrats on avoiding contact, I hope that put your brights on for a few seconds to scare the driver as much as she scared you. ;)
You should practice EMERGENCY stops in a vacant school parking lot on a regular basis (I try to do it once a month or so).
I think you will find that your stopping distance would have been shorter had you been able to also apply the rear brake thereby activating the other front piston(s) as well as the rear piston fed by the rear master cylinder.
keith
edited because I can't remember if the 2nd gen LBS on the Vtec activates one front piston with the rear pedal or two...
My story; Driving home, late and raining, rounded a corner (speed: approx. 45 mph/70 kph) in the middle of the road was a 6"X6" post....grabbed the front brake lever, for all it's worth!....ABS and linked brakes saved the day by allowing me to steer free of the obstacle and prevented the front or rear brakes from locking up....Very close call. I sat there shaking afterwards thinking of what could of happened!!!!!
Thanks for all your replies, I wasn't sure whether or not to use the rear brake as I'm sure I've heard somewhere to only use the front in an emergency situation? I think I'd be too worried of snaking under panic.
It all happened so quickly and she just drove off (probably in shock too) so there was no time to 'talk' to her... I felt both shocked and very angry... but then I felt grateful to have stopped in time, I think it might have been a different story on my old 00 cbr6.
My 2cents:
I can lift the rear wheel off the ground with just the front 5 calipers working from the front brake lever, so I don't think I could stop much shorter also using the rear brake lever, maybe a foot or two from the extra braking to the rear wheel in the split second before weight is transferred fully to the front wheel.
I try to practice emergency stops a few times every ride to stay fresh; probably not good for front tire wear though...
I also only use front brake in an emergency. This is mostly because in a panic situation, I grab the tank with my knees and the lower body (of the bike) with my feet. In this situation, I can not possibly press on the brake pedal because it would diminish my grip on the bike.
This has worked fine in a straight line emergency stops. Once I even did an unintended stoppy, so the brakes are powerful enough for the job.
Ok, all you 6th gen with your 5 front pistons gripping have the stoppie on your side while the 5th gen guys only have 4 of the 6 working for us....I used to be great at stoppies.
I am seriously bumming, maybe instead of an R-1 or RC-51 conversion I should grab some 6th gen brakes from flea-pay.
Aye, good job on on no-contact. I live in Massachusetts, where stupid people routinely challenge my crash avoidance skills, some more than others.
Last summer, I had two occasions where my reproductive anatomy flung itself into my lower abdomen, a late model Chevy Suburban decided to turn left just as I got to the intersection, and in another, different, situation, in heavy traffic, I started to accelerate through a green light & intersection just as the car/s in front of me stopped dead. To be honest, both panic stops can, in part, be attributed to my right wrist. But my point is that in both situations, as I yanked and stomped on all of the brake I could muster, the bike didn't swerve or skid, it just slowed down in a nice straight line. Admittedly, I have ABS, and I don't have complete proof it kicked in, but with this bike, I'll just use both brakes, allowing more of my frontal lobes to look for alternative routes around the oncoming obstacle. The VFR has excellent brakes.
i had one incident last spring that may break me of trying to add the rear brake.
of course inexperience played a part,but the result was worse than if i had used the front alone.
i crested a hill wich dropped fast and quikly went into 90 degree corner.
of course i was going too fast on a road i had never been on,and most likley could have made the corner/turn had i been set up for it physically and mentally.
but all i knew at that point was i needed to stop!
i didnt feel the fronts were getting the job done fast enough and hit the rears also,bad mistake as i was on a declining grade with the fronts applied my rear was already light and adding the rear just broke it loose.
at that point i was fishtailing,going down an incline and needing to turn or stop.
at the last second i see i could go straight if i had too as another road merged there,im guessing this calmed me enough to let off the rear and stop the fishtailing and recover and stop just prior to going into the merging road.
i just sat there in the middle of the road and did an underwear check and got my self together to finish the road.
what i learned is ABS is worth the money if you can get it,and take it easier on unkown roads.
also that the rear brake peddle on the VFR can hurt you more than help if not used correctly.
Glad to hear you were able to stop in time, Steve. :thumbsup:
I've had to brake hard to avoid a crash several times. Probably half and half my fault vs. someone else's. I use both brakes instinctively, as I have since my cycling days.
ABS was a "want" when I was shopping for my VFR, but when I came across the perfect one for me, the fact that it didn't have ABS it wasn't a deal-breaker. I still wish I had it, but hopefully I'll never really wish I had it!
[image: View Post]cornercarver, on Jan 15 2008, 10:15 AM, said:
Ok, all you 6th gen with your 5 front pistons gripping have the stoppie on your side while the 5th gen guys only have 4 of the 6 working for us....I used to be great at stoppies.
I am seriously bumming, maybe instead of an R-1 or RC-51 conversion I should grab some 6th gen brakes from flea-pay.
Uh, I can :squid: stoppie my '00. Or did I misread, or miss something entirely? :blink: ('course it helps not to have my GIVI case on)
I have locked the rear in a panic stop situation where the tires weren't up to temp. Morons that don't know how to YIELD to vehicles already IN the traffic circle/roundabout/rotary.
[image: View Post]cornercarver, on Jan 15 2008, 03:15 PM, said:
Maybe instead of an R-1 or RC-51 conversion I should grab some 6th gen brakes from flea-pay.
Calipers will be the same. Just get the proportioning valve for starters. Front/rear master cylinders may be different sizes.
Linked brakes are good applied science, which is why they work as well as they do. Tests against lighter bikes with larger brakes have shown the VFR800 equal to or better than most.
[image: View Post]y2kvfr, on Jan 15 2008, 10:49 AM, said:
[image: View Post]cornercarver, on Jan 15 2008, 10:15 AM, said:
Ok, all you 6th gen with your 5 front pistons gripping have the stoppie on your side while the 5th gen guys only have 4 of the 6 working for us....I used to be great at stoppies.
I am seriously bumming, maybe instead of an R-1 or RC-51 conversion I should grab some 6th gen brakes from flea-pay.
Uh, I can :squid: stoppie my '00. Or did I misread, or miss something entirely? :blink: ('course it helps not to have my GIVI case on)
I have locked the rear in a panic stop situation where the tires weren't up to temp. Morons that don't know how to YIELD to vehicles already IN the traffic circle/roundabout/rotary.
Same here, but the other weight you can add to the back will kill a stoppie, but let you put more pressure on the rear brake...
hhaha I certainly am, do you remember when I was unsure whether to get rid of my vtec? Well remembered, since then I have grown to love this bike... it's sound, reliability, killer looks and the amount of people who are intrigued by it... it's in a class of it's own and I'm confident I would not of made the stop in time on any other bike, since under pressure I prob would of locked something... whether or not I used the rear brake would of helped is unsure, but I think I may have applied it too hard in the split second I had to make the decision.
It's interesting reading all your stories too! :joystick:
[image: View Post]cornercarver, on Jan 16 2008, 12:41 AM, said:
edited because I can't remember if the 2nd gen LBS on the Vtec activates one front piston with the rear pedal or two...
Yeah the VTEC LBS works like so:
Front lever - directly activates 5 of the 6 front pistons.
Front left caliper - Usage of front lever drags caliper forward, pushing on secondary rear brake master cylinder and actives 1 of the 3 rear pistons
Rear brake pedal - Directly activates 2 of the 3 rear pistons and 1 of the 6 front pistons via the Proportioning control valve.
Hmmm, not sure if I've made it sound more complex than it is!
[image: View Post]y2kvfr, on Jan 15 2008, 11:49 AM, said:
I have locked the rear in a panic stop situation where the tires weren't up to temp. Morons that don't know how to YIELD to vehicles already IN the traffic circle/roundabout/rotary.
Even I was confused by rotary's here, till someone told me that Massachusetts changed the law/rule about 25 years ago. The law used to be that traffic IN the rotary must yield to oncoming traffic... believe it or not. This must have caused unbreakable gridlock during rush hour, so the law was changed to require incoming traffic to yield to the rotary traffic. This change can cause 'starvation' (I'm a computer geek by profession) to some of the incoming roadways, but makes it safer for vehicles in the rotary and does guarantee the rotary eventually will empty out.
I wouldn't be surprised if the moron that helped you test your safety equipment was either taught the old way or is a senior who hasn't internalized the new rule. So in general, here in MA, I expect almost anything to happen before and during my trip through a rotary. Hate them. So glad, MA-DOT plans on getting rid of nearly all of them. For any visitors to the state, approach them with care, because some of our seniors are following the opposite to the current rule!
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Jan 16 2008, 01:17 AM, said:
I came to a stop an inch from her car door.
:thumbsup:
Similar thing happened to me a couple of nights ago, but I stopped about an inch past the rear bumper of the car. <_<
Cracked the front fender and put a gouge in it.
[image: View Post]enzed_viffer, on Jan 16 2008, 09:28 PM, said:
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Jan 16 2008, 01:17 AM, said:
I came to a stop an inch from her car door.
:thumbsup:
Similar thing happened to me a couple of nights ago, but I stopped about an inch past the rear bumper of the car. <_<
Cracked the front fender and put a gouge in it.
Sorry to hear of your accident, sounds like you must of srubbed off alot of speed hence the low damage though
[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Jan 15 2008, 09:44 AM, said:
My 2cents:
I can lift the rear wheel off the ground with just the front 5 calipers working from the front brake lever, so I don't think I could stop much shorter also using the rear brake lever, maybe a foot or two from the extra braking to the rear wheel in the split second before weight is transferred fully to the front wheel.
I try to practice emergency stops a few times every ride to stay fresh; probably not good for front tire wear though...
:+1: :+1:
The LBS didn't do any thing for you. It was your skill that kept the front from locking in a panic stop. Don't thank the bike, thank yourself for your skill and good split second thought processes that kept your rear from locking.
The only advantage I've ever been able to tell with linked brakes, is on large heavy bikes like Gold Wings, VTX1800s, etc. that have large brakes in the rear also, and a front to rear weight bias that carries a lot of the rider and bike weight to the rear. I would have actually liked my VFR better with std., unlinked ones. On the above pointed out large bikes, linked systems do a good job of hauling the large mass down from speed quickly, and "squat" the bike in a straight line under "panic-stop" conditions....................... :thumbsup:
I have no issues with this system... I often trail the back brake lightly during tight corners without upsetting anything if I find myself a little 'hot' on entry speed.
Every instructor will tell you to use both brakes in a panic stop, because you will stop quicker. The question is not whether there is a shorter, quicker stop (there is), but whether the shorter stopping distance is worth the risk or locking the rear tire...