Abs Vs Non Abs...video

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

I have to say I found the ABS on my old VFR annoying, pulsating and letting go on the brake when I didn't want it to. I prefer the 'bite' and less calculated apporach, the other day I practised a few emergency stops in the wet and I think just using the front brake the linked system worked superb. I suppose you just have to 'know' when the rear tyre is going to lock.

I think the ABS on the Sprint was probably the best I've tried though

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I suppose you just have to 'know' when the rear tyre is going to lock.

And in a panic situation? I think not!............... :biggrin:

And it's the front tire locking up on a slippery surface that will hurt you..............

I've been in a few bad situations where I have had to brake VERY hard and you can feel what thje bike is doing beneath you, although there's only so much abs can do if someone pulls out in front of you far too late.

Yikes! Where would that guy be without those training wheel things? I assume the sliding guy is the one without the ABS. I like the idea of ABS. I see little downside and potentially a very big upside to having ABS on a bike. Convincing the non ABS guys that ABS is a good idea will be about as likely as everyone agreeing on what brand of oil to use in our bikes or maybe what the "best" year of the VFR is. By the way does anyone know what brand of oil to use and what the best year of the vfr is?

[image: View Post]Iannn, on Aug 9 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

Yikes! Where would that guy be without those training wheel things? I assume the sliding guy is the one without the ABS. I like the idea of ABS. I see little downside and potentially a very big upside to having ABS on a bike. Convincing the non ABS guys that ABS is a good idea will be about as likely as everyone agreeing on what brand of oil to use in our bikes or maybe what the "best" year of the VFR is. By the way does anyone know what brand of oil to use and what the best year of the vfr is?
Shite stirer :biggrin:

As many have seen I tend to ride relatively aggressive and NEVER have I ever had a situation where I can say I wish I didn't have ABS. I can name 3 specific situations, two times from rear-ending a car, and one time from going into a guardrail that I thank ABS for my bike and me seeing to ride another day. In no way has ABS hindered my riding style on the streets.

The video is not a valid comparison for riders that know basic riding skills. The guy with the training wheels was not even trying to control the bike.

Riding year around in the Pacific NW rain and shine for more than 150k miles I can not think of a instance I needed ABS, LBS, or IBS. It would be of greater value for a novice than for those riding years in the dirt and gravel before venturing out on the road.

[image: View Post]Bad Boy, on Aug 9 2008, 04:55 PM, said:

The video is not a valid comparison for riders that know basic riding skills. The guy with the training wheels was not even trying to control the bike.


Riding year around in the Pacific NW rain and shine for more than 150k miles I can not think of a instance I needed ABS, LBS, or IBS. It would be of greater value for a novice than for those riding years in the dirt and gravel before venturing out on the road.

Well, I have to disagree with you on this one...... I have almost 40 years on bikes of all types, including racing, riding as an LEO motor scout & many years in the dirt trail riding, racing motocross, enduro, trials, hare scrambles, etc. My ABS has save my skin on more than one occasion in both wet & dry situations. There is no way, except under ideal straight up conditions that I can stop my bike w/o ABS as fast as I can with ABS. I have tried both on a Goldwing and a 6th gen VFR, under real street conditions (which I would not recommend, but I am here to tell about it), & in practice conditions. Like anything else, it can be a crutch...but when the chips are down & you have to stop under less than ideal conditions, you can't beat ABS......

The video show exactly what you said, a panic type or squeeze the brake & pray stop. I don't think the purpose was to do anything other than both riders doing the same thing, leading to different results.

Would I run ABS on a track...only if it was an endurance race in the rain, with a switch allowing me to turn it off when I wanted it off. On the track...not the way it is designed now. :fing02:

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Riding year around in the Pacific NW rain and shine for more than 150k miles I can not think of a instance I needed ABS, LBS, or IBS. It would be of greater value for a novice than for those riding years in the dirt and gravel before venturing out on the road.

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A quote comes to mind............"it is better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought..........." I'll let you look it up to finish the quote.

I've been driving a car for 42 years and I've never had an instance where seat belts were needed, there fore, they are useless to me.......................Absolutely amazing statement isn't it.

And if you ever buy a motorcycle with ABS, I sincerely hope you never need it..........

I currently ride three motorcycles equipped with ABS. Most folks that ride with me would say I'm a "spirited" rider...:-).
I ride about 30K a year on two wheels. ABS has saved my hide (and my bike) in at least three instances I know about (there are times ABS will kick in and be so seamless, you are not even aware it activated)

Just three weekends ago I was caught in a terrible downpour, while in a very busy retail section of town. The kind of rain that has white foam coming off the street and traction is just about zero until the oil washes off. Best course of action is to get off the road for a few minutes and I was attempting just that. But before I could get pulled over, a pinhead, talking on a cell phone, pulled out from a gas station directly in front of me. I was only going 20-25 mph. I nailed the brakes as anyone would in a panic situation, and the V Strom's ABS kicked in and I was able to maneuver right around the car. I would have been on the ground for sure if that front wheel had locked up. I don't care how seasoned a rider you are. In that situation, you are going down...period.

Get used to it, ABS will be on 100% of motorcycles within ten years. Just like disc brakes............The lawyers will force the issue. "Know technology to mitigate damage"..............Done deal.

Ride safe!

Oh, and one last thing.........

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The video is not a valid comparison for riders that know basic riding skills. The guy with the training wheels was not even trying to control the bike.

Lots of folks bring up this point when the ABS vs NON-ABS discussion comes up.
I always challenge them to meet me at a parkinglot, in the rain, and show me how it's done. Six folks will line up about 100 ft apart, each with an inflated beachball. The Expert rider will drive past these folks at 50mph and at random, one of them will throw the beach ball in front of the rider and he has to stop without dropping the bike...................No one has taken up the challenge.

Watch the video again. The rider is trying to control the bike, but at the instance of braking, the bike is totally out of control. This happens so fast that the bikes ABS system is responding at upwards of 100 times a second. No human can respond that fast.

You may disagree with what you think I said but you are not listening.
1) I think the guy with training wheels is purposefully over braking to loosing control to make his point.
2) I stated my experience.
3) ABS would be of greater benifit to those with less skill.

Could I out perform ABS? Is it of no value? I agree with you guys on that too, you are just not listening.

not bashing anyone else or their oppnion but i honestly hate abs, i may need or not need same for anyone else its all down to comfort and im just not comfy with abs.

[image: View Post]Bad Boy, on Aug 10 2008, 09:36 PM, said:

You may disagree with what you think I said but you are not listening.
1) I think the guy with training wheels is purposefully over braking to loosing control to make his point.
2) I stated my experience.
3) ABS would be of greater benifit to those with less skill.

Could I out perform ABS? Is it of no value? I agree with you guys on that too, you are just not listening.

looks like the guy with the training wheels was instructed to lock 'em up.

[image: View Post]mello dude, on Aug 10 2008, 10:43 PM, said:

looks like the guy with the training wheels was instructed to lock 'em up.
For a demonstration of ABS, the likely instructions for both riders was to grab a handful of front brake.

I have seen many times, experienced riders grab a handful of front brake and crash after locking the front wheel. Unless you practice emergency braking ALL the time, to the point where it is muscle memory and you don't even have to think about it, more than likely, the time that car turns left in front of you, you will panic and grab a handful of brake.

Every one of those "I had to lay 'er down" stories was either grabbing a handful of front brake and lowsiding, or stomping on the back brake, locking the rear wheel, then letting off and highsiding. If every bike on the road had ABS, I bet crashes would go down about 30%.

[image: View Post]jeremy556, on Aug 10 2008, 10:50 PM, said:

[image: View Post]mello dude, on Aug 10 2008, 10:43 PM, said:

looks like the guy with the training wheels was instructed to lock 'em up.
For a demonstration of ABS, the likely instructions for both riders was to grab a handful of front brake.

I have seen many times, experienced riders grab a handful of front brake and crash after locking the front wheel. Unless you practice emergency braking ALL the time, to the point where it is muscle memory and you don't even have to think about it, more than likely, the time that car turns left in front of you, you will panic and grab a handful of brake.

Every one of those "I had to lay 'er down" stories was either grabbing a handful of front brake and lowsiding, or stomping on the back brake, locking the rear wheel, then letting off and highsiding. If every bike on the road had ABS, I bet crashes would go down about 30%.

I'm not debateing the wonders of ABS, but on my vfr no thanks. On a big ass touring bike ok.

MD

From reading everyone else's posts on the topic, I think that its a matter of personal prefrence. I myself can tell you that the abs on my bike has saved my but a couple of times. Now and then in Los Angeles we have drivers that are either talking on the phone, putting on make up or just not paying attention while they are driving. The other day after getting cut of by some inattentive buiseness woman doing both (make up and talking on the phone) I jambed on the brakes in an area of typical Los Angeles style street (torn up asphalt with loose gravel) and the ABS kicked in. I'm sure if I didn't have the ABS, I would have ate it big time. :ohmy:

ABS.

There is no way humanly possible to pulse the brakes as fast or as accuratly as an ABS computer in a 100% panic stop.... How well does ABS work.... F1 banned it, and traction control, it was not due to lack of performance...

Based on my expierinece on race tracks with ABS and non ABS cars over the last almost 20 years, its hard for me to believe anyone could actually think they have better brake modulation than an ABS computer...

I would not own a car, or bike, without it....I've made enough square tires in my race/track cars over the years and learned how to drive ABS cars. You can do things in an ABS car you could never do in one without ABS. I am sure it is the same with bikes.

This debate is the same as when ABS was becoming standard on cars...Same argument funny to see it in the bike world after going through it inthe BMW car circles I run in :cool: from what I see Bikes are just now starting to have ABS available as a common option. I would bet money in a few years it is mandantory on all street bikes, just as with cars.