Is there any issue with the R/R or the wiring on the 6th gens? I'm wondering if I should add it to my list of winter mods and hence prepare by gathering parts now.
Thanks in advance for all useful input, advice, and quick sarcastic replies. ;)
[image: View Post]snoman181, on Aug 20 2008, 08:01 PM, said:
Is there any issue with the R/R or the wiring on the 6th gens? I'm wondering if I should add it to my list of winter mods and hence prepare by gathering parts now.
Thanks in advance for all useful input, advice, and quick sarcastic replies. ;)
I think that the 6th gen bikes do not have RR issues like previous gens do, being that the RRs are now mounted on the front headstock and sufficiently cooled.
I suspect there could be an issue with Gen 6 R/R. Here is what I am experiencing. I have installed a Dyna module to monitor voltage. The monitor show a green light when in the charge mode and one of two red lights when the charge rate is low or high. The normal condition is a low voltage red light showing when at idle and this can be turned to green (adequate charge rate) with a quick bit of throttle. It certainly is a comfort to see a normal green charge rate with a quick glance when riding.
The problem shows itself on hot days in stop and go traffic. There is minimal air flow over the R/R and the low red light comes on when stopped or going very slow. As soon as the RPM goes up the light turns green - normal. This all changes as soon as the temperature is high enough to call for the fans. The the low red comes on and stays regardless of RPM and remains on as long as the fans are on and the there is minimal air flow over the R/R. Parking the bike and allowing the temperature to recover to ambient seems to remove the problem, until the next time. The hotter the day, the less stop and go traffic can be tolerated until there is no longer any charging. I'm suspecting the fans draw enough current to outstrip the R/R ability to replace the draw and it shuts down. I have put a voltage meter in the loop when I'm in a low red condition and basically read only battery voltage. When the bike cools down and normal green returns, the voltage fluctuates to around the high 13 low 14 volt range.
I'm pretty sure this isn't self healing and the ability of the R/R to respond will fall off. I'm concerned that I may end up a good distance from home without enough battery reserve to make it home.
Unless someone responds to this thread with something to explain what I am seeing, I will replace the R/R as tests on the stator indicate it is probably OK.
Where is your Dyna Module getting it's voltage source from? It sounds more like it is reading the voltage drop the fan is causing than an actual R/R issue. I know my R/R voltage is rock steady purely dependant on the RPM range I am in, and of course what accessories or lights are active.
Wiring however is a different issue, and much has and can be done to improve it....first off being the harness recall.
Hmmm. Interesting. I haven't done anything to monitor my voltage yet, but since I use my VFR mainly for recreation, I rarely find myself in stop and go city traffic.
I'd be curious to see the current draw when the fans are on. If it is an overload problem on the R/R, you should be able to tell quickly by checking the current draw. If that's the case, it's simply bad design. The stator, R/R, and associated wiring should be beefy enough to handle all the stock electrics running with the fans on. That's just a normal operating condition. If there are a lot of extra lights and electrics added beyond stock, I understand why there may be an issue.
I may do some quick tests to see what voltage and current mine is drawing compared to rated output and see if there's a problem.
It's funny how some components on the bike can draw so much juice. The thing I noticed with my own bike is, if I am stopped at traffic, and especially in hotter days, the brake lights with the turn signals on is enough to create an undercharging state (11.5 volts), which trips off the voltage alarm on my volt meter. I was not aware that a turn signal relay could draw so much power from the system. Otherwise, my idle voltage with no brake or signal lights on and headlight on high beam, is around 13.7 volts ..........Could I be needing a new batttery?? :wub:
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Aug 20 2008, 04:57 PM, said:
Where is your Dyna Module getting it's voltage source from? It sounds more like it is reading the voltage drop the fan is causing than an actual R/R issue. I know my R/R voltage is rock steady purely dependant on the RPM range I am in, and of course what accessories or lights are active.
Wiring however is a different issue, and much has and can be done to improve it....first off being the harness recall.
The stator and wiring recall have both been done. The Dyna voltage is measured in the fuse panel, and all voltages have been confirmed with a volt meter across the battery. Before the R/R became suspect, the fan would draw down the voltage when it kicked in, but increased RPM offset the low charge condition. After a longer than usual run in hot, stop and go traffic the engine actually started to stumble and when placed on a charger it took about 4 hours to recover the battery to full charge. Once fully charged and running cool in the monitored, normal green condition the engine was just fine. Again, the condition only presents itself when the fans kick in and that's what is leading me to suspect an intermittent and heat induced R/R shut down.
My take on this is that the only voltage that matters is the battery voltage, taken directly at it's terminals. For a 12V system with a lead-acid battery like ours, the max system voltage should be about 14.5V. I say directly at it's terminals because any reading you get elsewhere in the system will be lower due to the resistance of the wire and the amount of current flowing through it up to the point where you tap in.
Earlier this season, when I was looking for information about the recall to check over my '04, I found Kanadian Ken's monitor wire fix for the R/R and agreed with it 100%. Unitl recently, I wasn't sure if it was part of the recall or not, and I'm quite disappointed that it is not. Basically, I was seeing over 15V at the battery in stock form, and that really represents an overvoltage condition which I believe will aggravate other issues. Since making that fix, my R/R now regulates to a solid 14.6V at all rpms, and even at high load. The only time it deviates from that is during high load at idle, when the alternator simply cannont generate enough current to cover the load and charge the battery at the same time. Currently, that only happens if I'm idling with the fan or high beams on. I did try that today, and the voltage dipped to 13.2 with them both on. I'd say that is acceptable because it's still higher than the open-circuit standing voltage of the battery, so it shouldn't be discharging the battery at that point. As soon as the rpms come up to 3-4K, it's right back to 14.6.
The recall does address the other two known issues, although there is a thread that casts some doubt on whether or not the new battery cable (and 30A fuse) are that much better than the original. I also have my own doubts about the new front sub-harness fix for the green wire issue, but I'll leave that alone for now. My 30A fuse was getting toasted, so I just fixed it up myself, and it's doing well.
one major problem on the r/r's on the older vfr's is the fact that theyre internally grounded. this causes them to heat up significantly, which is one of the root causes of why r/r's burn out so often. I realized that the cbr r/r's are externally grounded, and when i replaced mine here a few weeks ago, i actually modified a stock, internally grounded unit to external grounding (and also did the charging system upgrade, and fan mod for the r/r).
after ALL the crazy stuff ive read so far on honda charging systems and r/r's, these mods are something id recommend for all hondas, and would most likely benefit any bike on the road.
End of thread · 10 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 10 Apr 2010