As posted yesterday, I changed my pads and fluid, using the MityVac to suck fluid through the system. I was very careful not to allow the reservoirs to run dry...
I didn't ride the bike until this morning. When I left the house, the brakes were a bit spongy. As I was slowing down for the third stop sign, it felt like I ran over a small pebble- after that the brakes felt good. I figured that maybe a front pad wasn't lined up exactly right or something and it just clicked into place. I pulled over and inspected everything - I couldn't spot any problems, so I continued to work.
After that third stop sign, my ABS light began to blink :(. I continued to work and back home this evening. The light was blinking, but the brakes are performing fine.
I got home and read the ABS codes - code 10. I reset the code. When I turn the bike back on, the solenoid under the left fairing makes a "thwap!" noise and the light starts blinking again. Once again, code 10. Same thing happens over and over :(. The service manual says to swap the two wiring harnesses from the front to the rear ABS modulator ... only I have no idea where the rear one is? The front one is right there under the left fairing... and the wiring harnesses running to it are very short. I have no idea how one could swap it with the rear...
Any ideas? That 'thwap!' of the solenoid isn't a good sound....
[image: View Post]spud786, on Aug 25 2008, 07:09 PM, said:
Well, my bet is you have air in the lines.
I'd do a manual bleed starting from scratch, pump the lever hold open screw and close,
save that bleeder by the battery for last, use the rear brake pedal to bleed it , it will be a hard press but it works.
atleast Ive never had issue when I did a full flush on mine, I did it the manual way though
or as an easy, try that bleeder by the battery first, might save the whole enchalada
Yeah, logic tells me that air got to the ABS unit somehow. On my car, if air gets to the ABS unit, you have to connect a BMW diagnostic computer to the car and put the ABS unit through a special bleeding procedure.
There's a "T" down by the front brakes where the ABS unit splits off. I'm guessing the ABS simply operates by opening up (and closing and opening) the brake line going from that T into the modulation unit, forcing the pressurized fluid through that T.
Ugh. I dunno. Maybe I'll try some stuff tomorrow. The thing is.. my brakes feel incredible, better than ever, almost no lever travel required before the brakes are engaged...
Seems that there would have to be a LOT***** of air in the lines for the ABS modulator to fail its power on test.
SO I go out to play with it... remove/clean/replace wiring harnesses, etc. Finally I clear the codes and none come back ... I go to start the bike and apparently in the process of constantly turning the ignition on/off, I run down the battery. Clock even reset.
It's on the battery tender now (it's all I got) so it'll take at least overnight to charge it back up. I'm not optimistic that the codes will stay off...
If you recall, my main ABS fuse (in the right fuse box) has blown on me twice. This may be related.. bad control module or front modulating unit... I dunno. I'm sure the parts are f'ing expensive :(.
I'll try bleeding again tomorrow if the codes are still there.
Sorry to hear about your luck w/ bleeding. Ironic that I bled my brakes this past Sunday on my ABS-equipped VFR. It must've been an omen, but my mighty-vac broke on a prior automotive job. I threw it away, otherwise I may have used it. I'm glad I didn't. In using it to bleed brakes on my 4th gen, it was a PITA. It was a hassle to keep the hoses on the bleeder screws and pumping the darn thing while having vacuum seep through the bleeder screw threads.
Perhaps you might want to want to try the one-man brake bleeder kit. Read my experiences here. Hopefully you can get the air out.
[image: View Post]hidesertmlb, on Aug 25 2008, 09:56 PM, said:
Sorry to hear about your luck w/ bleeding. Ironic that I bled my brakes this past Sunday on my ABS-equipped VFR. It must've been an omen, but my mighty-vac broke on a prior automotive job. I threw it away, otherwise I may have used it. I'm glad I didn't. In using it to bleed brakes on my 4th gen, it was a PITA. It was a hassle to keep the hoses on the bleeder screws and pumping the darn thing while having vacuum seep through the bleeder screw threads.
Perhaps you might want to want to try the one-man brake bleeder kit. Read my experiences here. Hopefully you can get the air out.
The MityVac worked great for me. My limited knowledge of how everything works, however, is telling me that it's more than just a bit of air that would cause the front modulation unit to immediately fail its self test. If bleeding again doesn't help, I'm going to take it to a dealer - I've got a long ride scheduled for next weekend. ugh.
Just a thought, but did you bleed the system in the proper sequence as called for in the manual? Having to bleed in a certain sequence is a characteristic of LBS brakes.
[image: View Post]mick, on Aug 26 2008, 11:00 AM, said:
Just a thought, but did you bleed the system in the proper sequence as called for in the manual?
Sure did. Followed it to a T.
I called a dealer and they can't see the bike until Sept 8th. Sounds like I'll put it back together and put some electrical tape over the blinking ABS light for now :). That gives me a bit more time to bleed again.
I think you should be OK to ride the bike if the brakes are otherwise functioning properly, but do note that most likely your ABS system is on "sleep mode" till the problem with the system is repaired. In other words, no anti lock till it's fixed, just regular "manual" brake system like the "good ol days"....so be careful!
[image: View Post]Beck, on Aug 26 2008, 12:00 PM, said:
I think you should be OK to ride the bike if the brakes are otherwise functioning properly, but do note that most likely your ABS system is on "sleep mode" till the problem with the system is repaired. In other words, no anti lock till it's fixed, just regular "manual" brake system like the "good ol days"....so be careful!
First, I was getting codes 10 and 12. I took it into a dealership and they first suggested re-flushing all of the fluid, which they did. Now they're only getting code 12.
Code 12 refers to the ABS control unit only. They suggest that I simply ride it for awhile and try clearing the codes again. If that doesn't work, I'll need to find a new ABS control unit - they're ~$700 new, so I'll be searching eBay. Neither the dealership nor a guy at American Honda that the dealership called has ever heard of this problem. Bummer.
I'm going to Thailand for 10 days and leaving for a 1350 mile ride immediately on my return. I guess I'll have to cover up the blinking light with electrical tape during my ride.
Another update - I found an ABS control unit on eBay for $225 (It was incorrectly listed as an ECM/PCM... but the part number was visible and I verified what it was. Talked to the seller even).
I should have it upon my return from Thailand to pop into the bike. Nice.
Another update-
I got home, reset the codes... and guess what, codes 10 & 12 popped up again. In other words, I paid the dealership $225 for a brake flush and diagnostic and it did zilch.
Note to self: The dealership is not better at working on a bike than I am.
[image: View Post]motorhead1977, on Sep 19 2008, 05:35 PM, said:
I certainly hope you get this solved. However, your saga makes me glad I didn't opt for the ABS afterall. Good luck.
Yeah, I hope the new ABS control unit that I bought fixes it. If not, I'll just re-ebay it and then order a new front ABS modulator unit (also about $225). This is why I took the bike to a dealer, so I wouldn't have to be throwing money into "maybe" fixes :(.
ABS was one of my requirements when buying the VFR... I paid more for a bike with ABS, and I'm going to get it working g'd'mit. For what it's worth, my problem seems exceedingly rare - so rare that a tech at American Honda had never heard of it, and there is zero information on it on any VFR discussion forum or mailing list that I can find.
I'll keep the thread updated with info... Until it's fixed, it'll once again be "fixed" by me placing electrical tape over the blinking ABS light to not annoy me :) :) :).
Abso-frickin-amazing. I'm ready to dump this bike.
...so I get the new ABS controller from eBay. Looks brand new. Pop it in, start the bike, voila, no immediate code/blinking ABS light! I put the side fairing back on, go inside and shower, and then go back outside to take the bike for a spin to make sure the ABS light shuts off after the bike reaches a few mph.
With the bike running, I'm walking it out of the garage. I hear a POP and start seeing SMOKE coming from the left fairing. W T F.
I shut off the bike and remove the left fairing. I can't see where the smoke was coming from so I turned the key back to the ON position - voila, it's coming from the new ABS controller. Of course these have circuit boards tar'd into a plastic casing, so there is no seeing what component was destroyed (not like it really matters I guess). The chance is pretty slim that the ABS controller (which came from a good bike) was bad, right? The melted area that was smoking wasn't melted when I took it out of the box - so my bike must have caused it.
For what it's worth, when I put my original ABS controller back in, I simply get codes 10/12 again - it doesn't burn itself up....
Right now I am at a complete loss.
Of course, I'm doing a 1300 mile bike trip starting Thursday. and of course we're expecting the first rain of the season. A time when ABS could possibly come in frickin handy.
Oh man.. to add more insult to injury, I just verified that the part numbers were the same (between the abs controller on my bike and the one I got on eBay)... and they're NOT!... so this was probably my fault.
Silly me thinking that ABS controllers were the same between 2004 and 2006. Tip: THEY'RE NOT.
Mine is 36800-MCW-D11
The 2006 controller I got off of eBay is 36800-MCW-H11.
FINALLY. The right ABS control unit and now it appears my ABS is working. Thanks to Dave@mositesmotorsports.com for the killer prices (Servicehonda wanted $477+shipping, dave got it to me for $398 shipped!!!).
[image: View Post]klinquist, on Oct 14 2008, 05:26 PM, said:
FINALLY. The right ABS control unit and now it appears my ABS is working. Thanks to Dave@mositesmotorsports.com for the killer prices (Servicehonda wanted $477+shipping, dave got it to me for $398 shipped!!!).
Just thought I'd reply to this again - I spoke too soon. During my commute the next day, the new ABS control unit went up in smoke (literally). I had to pull over on the side of the freeway 10 minutes into my commute and pull out the ABS fuse... smoke was pouring out of the ABS control unit.
Dave @ Mosites has been fantastic... he sent the unit back to Honda and tried to get it warrantied for me. Honda denied the warranty claim saying my bike has a "long history" and has "many aftermarket parts installed." I bought the bike in March and the only aftermarket part I installed was the VFRness wiring harness (which I've since removed since the recall was performed). The dealership that tried to fix my ABS did talk to Honda during the process, so I'm hoping that single conversation isn't what Honda is talking about when they say a "long history." I'm trying to get the regional/national rep for Honda's information.
To summarize, dealer couldn't fix my ABS problem, they said it's probably the ABS controller.
I order a new ABS controller and it goes up in smoke... then Honda won't replace it!
This is so frustrating :(. This VFR may very well be the last Honda I buy.
I'm sorry if I missed it but have you checked the ABS harness to ensure its not shorting or causing the issue. There must be some voltage diagnostic checks that can be done to ensure the lines are good. It's just freaky that your original went which was abnormal, then a brand new one blows up too... Maybe a continuity check of the connectors themselves to make sure there not shorting on the inside. Problem is how many modules can you keep throwing at it. I'm sorry your having all these issues, Honda really should try and help ya one way or another.
[image: View Post]jasonsmith, on Dec 4 2008, 02:04 PM, said:
I'm sorry if I missed it but have you checked the ABS harness to ensure its not shorting or causing the issue. There must be some voltage diagnostic checks that can be done to ensure the lines are good. It's just freaky that your original went which was abnormal, then a brand new one blows up too... Maybe a continuity check of the connectors themselves to make sure there not shorting on the inside. Problem is how many modules can you keep throwing at it. I'm sorry your having all these issues, Honda really should try and help ya one way or another.
I just talked to Honda, they basically said, "sorry for your troubles, try another dealership."
wow, thanks.
I honestly don't have another $400 for an ABS controller right now.
The next step is to troubleshoot the wiring harness...but other than examining it visually... I don't know where to start.... I could find someone local with an ABS bike and measure voltage/continuity across the wires, but there's like 20 of them... and who knows how they change when they have a good ABS controller plugged into them (assuming there is some sort of electronic communications going on between the ABS controller and the ECU).
...an update. I bought another ABS controller and asked the dealership to take another look at it. I told them that I didn't want them to blow up the one I just bought... They're hoping to get a bit more support from American Honda. Hopefully they'll get it working.
[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jan 24 2009, 02:10 PM, said:
...an update. I bought another ABS controller and asked the dealership to take another look at it. I told them that I didn't want them to blow up the one I just bought... They're hoping to get a bit more support from American Honda. Hopefully they'll get it working.
I think you have a major short somewhere in your wiring, thats taking these controllers out. Until that is found, it would be costly to install another unit
what does the connector that plugs into the unit look like? is the connection clean
sorry to hear the issue, my 06 abs has been the most reliable bike ever owned , Zero failures going on 53,000 mile
I've never put a waterhose on it, I think thats the reason its done so well
[image: View Post]spud786, on Jan 24 2009, 01:53 PM, said:
[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jan 24 2009, 02:10 PM, said:
...an update. I bought another ABS controller and asked the dealership to take another look at it. I told them that I didn't want them to blow up the one I just bought... They're hoping to get a bit more support from American Honda. Hopefully they'll get it working.
I think you have a major short somewhere in your wiring, thats taking these controllers out. Until that is found, it would be costly to install another unit
what does the connector that plugs into the unit look like? is the connection clean
sorry to hear the issue, my 06 abs has been the most reliable bike ever owned , Zero failures going on 53,000 mile
I've never put a waterhose on it, I think thats the reason its done so well
Yes, I agree with your diagnosis. I had every fairing off and even took off the electrical-like tape that covers the wiring around "corners" to try and find a short somewhere... came up empty.
WOW. I haven't checked this thread, in some time. GEEBUS. I am sorry. This sucks, hard. Let me ask you this,...
The problem started AFTER, the harness replacement? (Shorting I mean).
I ask because quite a number of folks have had non-ABS harnesses put on there ABS bikes. I'm wondering, (and it is a stretch),.....if they put a non ABS on, realized, then tried to graft the ABS into it, thus creating a shorting problem.
It's a stretch, but, I've seen, "trusted", dealers hack the s#!t, out of bikes. "The owner will never know".
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Jan 25 2009, 09:39 AM, said:
WOW. I haven't checked this thread, in some time. GEEBUS. I am sorry. This sucks, hard. Let me ask you this,...
The problem started AFTER, the harness replacement? (Shorting I mean).
I ask because quite a number of folks have had non-ABS harnesses put on there ABS bikes. I'm wondering, (and it is a stretch),.....if they put a non ABS on, realized, then tried to graft the ABS into it, thus creating a shorting problem.
It's a stretch, but, I've seen, "trusted", dealers hack the s#!t, out of bikes. "The owner will never know".
I hadn't tried a new ABS controller until after they had performed the harness recall; however, the original ABS controller is in the bike right now and it still "just" gives me code 12 with or without code 10 - it doesn't blow up. Only new controllers blow up.
Bizarre.
[image: View Post]spud786, on Jan 24 2009, 01:53 PM, said:
[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jan 24 2009, 02:10 PM, said:
...an update. I bought another ABS controller and asked the dealership to take another look at it. I told them that I didn't want them to blow up the one I just bought... They're hoping to get a bit more support from American Honda. Hopefully they'll get it working.
I think you have a major short somewhere in your wiring, thats taking these controllers out. Until that is found, it would be costly to install another unit
what does the connector that plugs into the unit look like? is the connection clean
sorry to hear the issue, my 06 abs has been the most reliable bike ever owned , Zero failures going on 53,000 mile
I've never put a waterhose on it, I think thats the reason its done so well
Sorry for your woes. It's troubling that the electrical gremblin started with your (at home) pad and fluid change back when. I take away from that info alone to pay for a shop to do a fluid flush on an ABS rig. That way all of light codes and blown boards are on them.
Didn't think the sequence of events was going to get as horrific at the start of your thread!
Question to spud786: Have you flushed your brake fluid system? Home or Shop? I too never hose down the bike. Sponge baths only.
What is the general consesus of the ABS owners on this site? Home or (Shop paid) flushes? In light of this story...
Mine is non-abs and am preparing to do a pad/fluid flush (at home) when I take the wheels off to have new rubber mounted, soon.
I've never bled a linked system before so am abivalent about it. Was thinking about getting a mini-vac for the job.
Flushed the clutch resevior/line last summer (manually) sucked in some air and after endless fruitless pumping engaged and rubber banded the lever to the grip for several hours. Came back later and all was fine, The air worked it's own way out top. Topped and capped it. No issues since.
lemon law in cali. might not have to go that far just the threat.
says new,used, or leased VEHICLE
problem that impairs safety,use or resale.
might be worth talking to someone
lemon law in cali. might not have to go that far just the threat.
says new,used, or leased VEHICLE
problem that impairs safety,use or resale.
might be worth talking to someone
California Lemon Law only applies to vehicles sold with a warranty I believe. I purchased the VFR used out of warranty.
Another update... dealer has had the bike for nearly a month now. They've got some ideas from American Honda on building a wiring harness to run the front modulator's cables to the rear and vise-versa (since actually swapping the modulators takes a LOT of labor). When I heard from them last week the regional service rep was going to bring down a Goldwing wiring harness which they could use.... and this is just to figure out if it's the modulators causing problems.
[image: View Post]klinquist, on Feb 23 2009, 07:21 AM, said:
Another update... dealer has had the bike for nearly a month now. They've got some ideas from American Honda on building a wiring harness to run the front modulator's cables to the rear and vise-versa (since actually swapping the modulators takes a LOT of labor). When I heard from them last week the regional service rep was going to bring down a Goldwing wiring harness which they could use.... and this is just to figure out if it's the modulators causing problems.
This all started from sucking some air into the system doing some home maintenance? :blink:
Thought about your sitch the entire time I did mind the other day, manually (non-ABS)
My question still stands: "Do ANY other ABS owners do your own fluid flushes"??
[image: View Post]bayarearider, on Feb 23 2009, 09:43 AM, said:
[image: View Post]klinquist, on Feb 23 2009, 07:21 AM, said:
Another update... dealer has had the bike for nearly a month now. They've got some ideas from American Honda on building a wiring harness to run the front modulator's cables to the rear and vise-versa (since actually swapping the modulators takes a LOT of labor). When I heard from them last week the regional service rep was going to bring down a Goldwing wiring harness which they could use.... and this is just to figure out if it's the modulators causing problems.
This all started from sucking some air into the system doing some home maintenance? :blink:
Thought about your sitch the entire time I did mind the other day, manually (non-ABS)
My question still stands: "Do ANY other ABS owners do your own fluid flushes"??
Good Luck
I did a full flush at 2,ooo miles when the bike was new, fluid looked real bad, since that time I only to ocassional do mini bleeds, the biggest thing you can do to prevent full flushing is drain and refill your resoviors routinally, it keeps you fluid contamination level down.
[image: View Post]spud786, on Feb 23 2009, 02:12 PM, said:
[image: View Post]bayarearider, on Feb 23 2009, 09:43 AM, said:
[image: View Post]klinquist, on Feb 23 2009, 07:21 AM, said:
Another update... dealer has had the bike for nearly a month now. They've got some ideas from American Honda on building a wiring harness to run the front modulator's cables to the rear and vise-versa (since actually swapping the modulators takes a LOT of labor). When I heard from them last week the regional service rep was going to bring down a Goldwing wiring harness which they could use.... and this is just to figure out if it's the modulators causing problems.
This all started from sucking some air into the system doing some home maintenance? :blink:
Thought about your sitch the entire time I did mind the other day, manually (non-ABS)
My question still stands: "Do ANY other ABS owners do your own fluid flushes"??
Good Luck
I did a full flush at 2,ooo miles when the bike was new, fluid looked real bad, since that time I only to ocassional do mini bleeds, the biggest thing you can do to prevent full flushing is drain and refill your resoviors routinally, it keeps you fluid contamination level down.
Yes, I use a baking syringe to draw out all of the resevoir fluid, then fill to the brim with fresh, then start the bleeder/pump sequence. Once a year seems to be working for me.
[image: View Post]bayarearider, on Feb 23 2009, 07:43 AM, said:
This all started from sucking some air into the system doing some home maintenance? :blink:
Thought about your sitch the entire time I did mind the other day, manually (non-ABS)
My question still stands: "Do ANY other ABS owners do your own fluid flushes"??
Good Luck
Well, I was blowing the ABS fuse randomly prior to the flush. I used a mity-vac to suck the fluid out of the valves and I'm 100% positive a reservoir never ran dry. Keep in mind that after the flush, the brakes did function better - felt just like they should with fresh fluid. Didn't feel like there was any air in the system. The dealer bled the brakes as the first step and it didn't change anything.
wow, this is my first read through this thread. Sorry to hear of all the difficulties, but I feel your pain (mine were overheating issues that like you no one had ever heard of). FWIW mine's an 02ABS, I was mine w/ a pressure washer and bleed my own fluid. No problems...
It's been a long and expensive road but I think it's finally fixed.
The dealership wanted to replace one or both ABS modulators. I figured we might as well do both since I'd be quite upset if we replaced one and it ended up being the other. They put in modulators that I scored on eBay ($200 each is better than the MSRP of around $1000 each). Code 12 remained with the old (known bad) controller in the bike. They gave the bike back to me to see if code 10 pops up... and if it doesn't, I can put the new controller in and hope it doesn't go up in smoke.
I put the new controller in this morning (code 10 didn't pop up after riding it 30-40 miles yesterday) and then rode into work (with the fuse panel covers removed, prepared to pull out the ABS fuse if I smelled smoke)..... so far it looks like it's all good!
Man.. 8 weeks without my bike and a lot of money. At least I've got her back. I've got a gutted exhaust, PC3, Starcom1, Speedo Healer, & PAIR valve blockoff plates waiting to be installed :).