Some of you know of my trials with the over heating issues on my bike. I've been fighting with the local Honda dealer to get the issue resolved but they have come to the conclusion that I'm the problem, and not the bike. :comp13: :pissed: Problem is, I ride with a few other people off of here with the same bike and no one else seems to have the issues with theirs that I have with mine. :huh:
So to cut to the chase. I rode from Vegas to Anaheim last weekend for a few baseball games. I had to stop 3 times on the way there to let the bike cool off because operating temperatures exceeded 250. I get to the hotel, pull the side plastic off and I'm over a quart low on coolant. Weird thing is the overflow reservoir had coolant above the "high" line on it. I add the coolant, and the bike runs fine for next day.
Sunday, I met up with the group for the Big Bear ride and saw temperatures into the 220's as we raced around the mountains, but everything recovered fairly quickly once I let up with the right hand a little. I split with the group and headed for home and this is when everything went to hell. I had to pull over 3 more times between Baker, CA and Vegas (80 miles, although very warm and lots of big ascents) to let the bike cool off again. The last time I pulled the plastic off and I'm a quart low on coolant again. I topped it off and rode the rest of the way home without incident.
More symptoms.
1) On the way home, I did not see the bike purge any coolant out of the overflow when I was stopped.
2) I haven't noticed any performance decrease
3) I've never seen coolant below my bike when it's been sitting in the garage.
4) I haven't noticed any decrease in fuel economy
Have you ever checked your wax unit to see if its clogged? I know that DUDE had this issue on his bike, in addition to an original hose that was leaking just enough to show up on the floor under the bike.
The first thing to me would be to check the thermostat. If its sticking in the closed position it'll throw a TON of heat at your motor.
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Sep 2 2008, 06:09 PM, said:
Smoking? Coolant in the oil?
Changed the oil yesterday and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Haven't noticed any smoke. My garage does smell pretty strongly like gas when I park the bike after riding though. Not sure if that's normal...
[image: View Post]spud786, on Sep 2 2008, 06:18 PM, said:
pressure cap?
Pressure tested the cap. 16lbs before it gave out. Took the bike to a radiator shop as a shot in the dark. Guy there said 16lbs is pretty much the standard for stock caps. Based on the information I provided the guy at the radiator shop he thinks it's a head gasket. I tend to believe him cause he has no reason to lie to me about it cause all he does is radiators.
Have you ever checked your wax unit to see if its clogged? I know that DUDE had this issue on his bike, in addition to an original hose that was leaking just enough to show up on the floor under the bike.
The first thing to me would be to check the thermostat. If its sticking in the closed position it'll throw a TON of heat at your motor.
Lots of folks here have had Stat issues.
The stat, ECM, thermoswitch, water pump, radiator cap, r/r have all been changed by the dealer. I'm not sure what the wax unit is, but I pulled the left radiator off and ran distilled water through it. No signs of blockage there. The right side, I just disconnected the hose out of the bottom and ran the water through the filler neck and didn't notice anything that would lead me to believe there was a block in that radiator either. Also, I know the stat is opening cause when the bike warms up, them temp gets to 180, the stat starts to open, then you see the temp fall back to 175 before it starts to rise again...
Have you ever checked your wax unit to see if its clogged? I know that DUDE had this issue on his bike, in addition to an original hose that was leaking just enough to show up on the floor under the bike.
The first thing to me would be to check the thermostat. If its sticking in the closed position it'll throw a TON of heat at your motor.
Lots of folks here have had Stat issues.
Yeah Ken, whats the wax unit??
You have to be burning it if there's no signs of leaks.
Strange that the overflow bottle isn't emptied ? :unsure: Could have compression leaking into the water jackets and actually blowing out antifreeze while riding, but that would be very bad as it would dump right in front of the rear tire! :mellow:
Couldn't the Rad shop pressurize the system and see if there's a leak?
[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Sep 3 2008, 08:28 AM, said:
You have to be burning it if there's no signs of leaks.
Strange that the overflow bottle isn't emptied ? :unsure: Could have compression leaking into the water jackets and actually blowing out antifreeze while riding, but that would be very bad as it would dump right in front of the rear tire! :mellow:
Couldn't the Rad shop pressurize the system and see if there's a leak?
I rode the bike to the radiator shop. When I pulled in to the parking lot the indicated temperture was over 200 (less than a 5 mile ride from my house, ambient temps in the low 90's) so the guy didn't want to pull the cap off and have coolant go all over. I do know that the system is holding a decent amount of pressure because when I pulled off the side of the road to top it off, when I pulled the cap off it spil coolant at me
[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Sep 3 2008, 08:28 AM, said:
You have to be burning it if there's no signs of leaks.
Strange that the overflow bottle isn't emptied ? :unsure: Could have compression leaking into the water jackets and actually blowing out antifreeze while riding, but that would be very bad as it would dump right in front of the rear tire! :mellow:
Couldn't the Rad shop pressurize the system and see if there's a leak?
Couple more potential symptoms...
I think that I'm only losing the coolant when the bike has been running for extended periods of time and under a decent load as I don't ever see any coolant under the bike when it's parked in my garage.
Immediately after I shut the bike down when it's been running hot, I hear a lot of air bubbles being blown in through the coolant reservoir.
If you are a quart low, then it should pull from the resevoir...the fact that it doesn't tells me the reservoir line is clogged or has a hole in it, or your cap really is bad.
Cap is a cheap fix, and the line is as well.
Neither of these however fixes the overheating, except possibly the cap. Pull the plugs and look for differences, then pull the T-stat and replace.
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Sep 3 2008, 09:39 AM, said:
If you are a quart low, then it should pull from the resevoir...the fact that it doesn't tells me the reservoir line is clogged or has a hole in it, or your cap really is bad.
Cap is a cheap fix, and the line is as well.
Neither of these however fixes the overheating, except possibly the cap. Pull the plugs and look for differences, then pull the T-stat and replace.
New cap is on order.
I disconnected the lines off the overflow and blew through them without any resistance.
The t-stat has been replaced by the dealer, and it is functioning correctly based off my ovbservations when the bike fist is warming up and watching the temp gauge.
[image: View Post]fastrc46, on Sep 3 2008, 09:20 AM, said:
Yeah. Sounds like some sort of leak down test is in order. :lurk:
:+1: ...that and/or possibly a dye test to detect presence of exhaust gases in the coolant. Leakdown should unveil any pressure seepage. I know that with cars, signs of bubbling in the overflow tank may be a sign that combustion pressure is entering the system through a failed head gasket and/or warped head.
If there's still suspicion that it's a head gasket, is it possible to "read" the plugs to find out if coolant is getting into the combustion chamber. It might be too late and the gasket(s) are damaged, but did anyone ever check your head bolts for proper torque? It could be a coolant leak directly from the water jacket into the combustion chamber, maybe that's why you're not seeing "mayonnaise" in your oil.
[image: View Post]toddulu, on Sep 2 2008, 06:06 PM, said:
Any ideas???
Sure... I got millions of ideas after 43 years fixing bikes...
You can visual inspect for a leaking head gasket by pulling the spark
plugs and peering down each hole... if the top of the piston is black
then no leak that cylinder... if the top of the piston is a bright
shiny aluminum then leak detected... because a leaky head gasket
allows coolant in and that produces steam under the heat of
combustion... the net effect is a super clean piston dome and no nasty
black...
[image: View Post]BusyLittleShop, on Sep 3 2008, 01:31 PM, said:
[image: View Post]toddulu, on Sep 2 2008, 06:06 PM, said:
Any ideas???
Sure... I got millions of ideas after 43 years fixing bikes...
You can visual inspect for a leaking head gasket by pulling the spark
plugs and peering down each hole... if the top of the piston is black
then no leak that cylinder... if the top of the piston is a bright
shiny aluminum then leak detected... because a leaky head gasket
allows coolant in and that produces steam under the heat of
combustion... the net effect is a super clean piston dome and no nasty
black...
You got me on that one............
I did a head gasket on a car I had afew years ago. I had a leak into the cylinder with nothing showing in the oil and I remember how clean that piston was. Ooooooo so Shiny.
Someone following behind should also smell the burning coolant too.
After I replaced my thermostat the line going to the wax unit started leaking. I took me a while to find it because, like you the fluid would decrease but I never saw any on the ground. In my case, what was happening was the fluid would leak into the center of the motor and pretty much get cooked off while riding. Look underneath the center stand and see if you green tracks where the antifreeze leaked and was boiled off. I was losing about a quart every week but I could tell because mine was taking it from the reserve tank.
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Sep 3 2008, 02:03 PM, said:
A leakdown test woudl pinpoint a coolant leak as well, if the head gasket is bad...right?
It will comfirm a leak, of some kind. In this case, some pressure on the system with the spark plugs out for some amount of time, an hour maybe? Turn the engine over after, with the plugs still out, and I would think you would get a coolant mist out the plug hole if a leak exists. I wouldn't do this with the plugs in for fear of hydraulic lock and damage to the engine.
But I think the shiny piston down the plug hole is a good check. If you have the tools for it.
[image: View Post]canib, on Sep 3 2008, 01:37 PM, said:
Jeez Todd...
The fun never stops with your little red bike, does it?
Good luck!
Mime's all gimped with a nail in the rear tire. I have the rear wheel in my truck. Hopefully I get over to Motorcycle Tire Shop this weekend.
:offtopic: We keep posting but still no Ben. Ya must be hangin with Mr XXX :rolleyes: :biggrin:
Lots of info here now Todd, have ya time before the trip to check some of this new info?
[image: View Post]hidesertmlb, on Sep 3 2008, 10:14 AM, said:
[image: View Post]fastrc46, on Sep 3 2008, 09:20 AM, said:
Yeah. Sounds like some sort of leak down test is in order. :lurk:
:+1: ...that and/or possibly a dye test to detect presence of exhaust gases in the coolant. Leakdown should unveil any pressure seepage. I know that with cars, signs of bubbling in the overflow tank may be a sign that combustion pressure is entering the system through a failed head gasket and/or warped head.
A few people have mentioned a leak down test. How do I do this?
As far as automobile engines are concerned, it's sorta like a compression test. Pressurize the combustion chamber through the spark plug hole and with a gauge set screwed into the spark plug hole, measure the rate at which the pressure drops. If you have a cylinder that drops at a discernable rate or does not hold pressure (beyond an acceptable difference from the pressure that went in), there is a leak: valves, rings, head gasket, head warpage... I can't imagine it being much different for a motorcycle engine.
Looks like a leak down, is in order. One other question: Are you smelling any coolant? Scenario: The dealer replaces the thermostat, and doesn't seal it properly. It leaks into the engine valley, but evaporates, prior to drippage. (Just being hopeful, as it is rare, but NOT unheard of, to have a bad head gasket).
Oh, wait,.....one more question: Was it burped on the side stand? Scenario: it wasn't, you would have to top it off a couple of times, (which you have), but it should be good, IF the bubble worked itself out. (Rare). Sorry, I think I asked you that in another thread, but remembering everyone's story, I find difficult. (Not that I don't try).
[image: View Post]Rivcyko, on Sep 3 2008, 01:26 PM, said:
Looks like a leak down, is in order. One other question: Are you smelling any coolant? Scenario: The dealer replaces the thermostat, and doesn't seal it properly. It leaks into the engine valley, but evaporates, prior to drippage. (Just being hopeful, as it is rare, but NOT unheard of, to have a bad head gasket).
Oh, wait,.....one more question: Was it burped on the side stand? Scenario: it wasn't, you would have to top it off a couple of times, (which you have), but it should be good, IF the bubble worked itself out. (Rare). Sorry, I think I asked you that in another thread, but remembering everyone's story, I find difficult. (Not that I don't try).
I've followed your directions on burping it on the side stand, and blipping the throttle a few times once the thermostat has opened to try to get any air pockets out. In fact, I would go so far to say if I could get paid for burping my motorcycle, I'd have enough money just to go buy a new one! :rolleyes:
Oh yeah, and yes you have given me advice on previous topics I've posted on this issue. Thanks for putting up with my nonsense! :biggrin:
Thanks everyone for the input. "Knowledge is Power"
I know my mechanical limitations and have taken the bike into an independent repair shop that has come highly recommended from a few different people. Best part about it is my warrany company said I can take my bike wherever I want, they just need to call in and get authorization before they make the repair, and the owner of the shop said he'd be more than happy to work with the warranty company. I'll post the finding once they come...
does sound like a head gasket...Ive unfortunatly fixed quite a few on cars over the years.
My M3turbo just had a similarly strange gasket problem... On the race track after 10 minutes it would over heat and spray coolent out the side of the head....On the street it would drive fine, but it used water with no sweet smell or smoking out of the exhaust...The culprit was a semi warped head that was sealing enough to hold decent compression but under high heat loads would expand and loose coolent...
Then there's always the VW GTi's I had probelms with...Got pretty good at pulling the head on that dam car :biggrin: M3, 3x so far, sucks its a bitch to get the dam head off. Timing the VANOS is like VODOO majic...
[image: View Post]AussieinUSA, on Sep 3 2008, 12:03 PM, said:
Lots of info here now Todd, have ya time before the trip to check some of this new info?
I took it over to Mike @ Green Valley Cycles. He gave me good vibes when I dropped it off. Took about 30 minutes and got the history on the bike.
As far as the trip goes, had to rely on the old man and he's bringing both the Wing and the FJR. I'll still have a good time but it would be a lot better if I was on the VTEC!!! Hopefully this will get it fixed once and for all, cause I'm pretty wore out over all this...
Oh yeah, I told Mike I knew you and he asked how you were doing. Nice guy!
[image: View Post]AussieinUSA, on Sep 3 2008, 12:03 PM, said:
[image: View Post]canib, on Sep 3 2008, 01:37 PM, said:
Jeez Todd...
The fun never stops with your little red bike, does it?
Good luck!
Mime's all gimped with a nail in the rear tire. I have the rear wheel in my truck. Hopefully I get over to Motorcycle Tire Shop this weekend.
:offtopic: We keep posting but still no Ben. Ya must be hangin with Mr XXX :rolleyes: :biggrin:
Yeah, where you been, Ben???
I think Ben does the opposite of hybernation. When it's summer and hot outside he disappears for about 4 months, but now that it's starting to cool off he's showing his face again! :biggrin:
End of thread · 33 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 12 Apr 2010