My vfr is an 06 pushing close to 50,000 mile, over that period of time , it developed the clack,clack clack of the front CCT by say 20,000 miles. At 30,000 miles, I replaced the CCT with a new ones and it lasted 7,000 miles until it started making noise. That was it I'm not buying another one, so I just ignored the clack.
But last week Hearing the clack at every stop light and every fuel station, and everytime I pull into the driveway, I became anoyed. So I was going to get out my stethoscope to ensure it was still the front cct before tackling a new strategy.
(Side note, I've ran every oil known to man in the VFR, the last 2 changes was Mobil1 15w50 and before that valvoline 20w50/10w40 motorcyle combo, CCT clacked on both)
Anyway My oil was due for change, and I fiqure afterwards I'd start it up, to get it to start clacking afterwards to locate if it was the front cct again.
Well, I was very cheap on the oil change this round, Valvoline car oil was used , 2 bottles of 10w40 and 1 bottle of 20w50 for longevity. started the bike it never clacked.
I rode 300 mile today not once did it clack at any fuel station, driveway ,stoplight or anything. This was a kronic ctt clack
I run over 2000 mile per month, this problem completely dissapeared like a light switch with valvoline car oil
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 4 2008, 09:20 PM, said:
My vfr is an 06 pushing close to 50,000 mile, over that period of time , it developed the clack,clack clack of the front CCT by say 20,000 miles. At 30,000 miles, I replaced the CCT with a new ones and it lasted 7,000 miles until it started making noise. That was it I'm not buying another one, so I just ignored the clack.
But last week Hearing the clack at every stop light and every fuel station, and everytime I pull into the driveway, I became anoyed. So I was going to get out my stethoscope to ensure it was still the front cct before tackling a new strategy.
(Side note, I've ran every oil known to man in the VFR, the last 2 changes was Mobil1 15w50 and before that valvoline 20w50/10w40 motorcyle combo, CCT clacked on both)
Anyway My oil was due for change, and I fiqure afterwards I'd start it up, to get it to start clacking afterwards to locate if it was the front cct again.
Well, I was very cheap on the oil change this round, Valvoline car oil was used , 2 bottles of 10w40 and 1 bottle of 20w50 for longevity. started the bike it never clacked.
I rode 300 mile today not once did it clack at any fuel station, driveway ,stoplight or anything. This was a kronic ctt clack
I run over 2000 mile per month, this problem completely dissapeared like a light switch with valvoline car oil
I bought 3x 1litre Motul 5100 for last oil change and only after all the oil was in the engine, realised the guy packed 2x 10w40 and one 15w50. Seems my mishap is done purposely by some guys for longevity ??
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 4 2008, 12:20 PM, said:
My vfr is an 06 pushing close to 50,000 mile, over that period of time , it developed the clack,clack clack of the front CCT by say 20,000 miles. At 30,000 miles, I replaced the CCT with a new ones and it lasted 7,000 miles until it started making noise. That was it I'm not buying another one, so I just ignored the clack.
But last week Hearing the clack at every stop light and every fuel station, and everytime I pull into the driveway, I became anoyed. So I was going to get out my stethoscope to ensure it was still the front cct before tackling a new strategy.
(Side note, I've ran every oil known to man in the VFR, the last 2 changes was Mobil1 15w50 and before that valvoline 20w50/10w40 motorcyle combo, CCT clacked on both)
Anyway My oil was due for change, and I fiqure afterwards I'd start it up, to get it to start clacking afterwards to locate if it was the front cct again.
Well, I was very cheap on the oil change this round, Valvoline car oil was used , 2 bottles of 10w40 and 1 bottle of 20w50 for longevity. started the bike it never clacked.
I rode 300 mile today not once did it clack at any fuel station, driveway ,stoplight or anything. This was a kronic ctt clack
I run over 2000 mile per month, this problem completely dissapeared like a light switch with valvoline car oil
I know it seems crazy, but it is what it is, it must be an oil flow issue to the front cct, the valvloine car oil is pretty thin , even the 20w50 comparitively to mc oil or Diesil oil.
maybe there more to Honda reccomend 10w30 other than for milege, but all my oil analysis show a vfr is will turn a 40 weight into a 30 weight inside of 1000 miles.
Since last september, I've only been running 15w40 weights and 20w50 weights, Prior to that I ran alot of 15w40 amsoil, the first 8,000 miles was on 5w40 rotella, but the motor was breaing it down too quick, and why I went heavier weights since last September.
I guess I'll just stick to sub 2000mile interval car oil >G<
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 4 2008, 01:46 PM, said:
What color socks?
I know it seems crazy, but it is what it is, it must be an oil flow issue to the front cct, the valvloine car oil is pretty thin , even the 20w50 comparitively to mc oil or Diesil oil.
The color of your socks probably has as much to do with the noise going away as changing to a car oil.
20-50 oil is the same viscosity if it's intended purpose is for cars or motorcycles or space shuttles. The only thing different is the additive package in them. Maybe the spring tensioner was hung up and it finally popped loose. CCTs make noise because there's slack in the chain. Changing oil ain't gonna make your chain shrink.
But whatever it was, it's stopped making noise and that's what matters. :fing02:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 4 2008, 01:56 PM, said:
Yeh, 20w50 by itself is pretty heavy and 10w40 by itself is pretty light , cross mix doesnt hurt Nope, won't hurt anything, it just changes the viscosity index. For example, if you mix equal parts of 15-50 and 10-40, you would end up with 15-45W
[image: View Post]RRW, on Oct 4 2008, 03:55 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 4 2008, 01:46 PM, said:
What color socks?
I know it seems crazy, but it is what it is, it must be an oil flow issue to the front cct, the valvloine car oil is pretty thin , even the 20w50 comparitively to mc oil or Diesil oil.
The color of your socks probably has as much to do with the noise going away as changing to a car oil.
20-50 oil is the same viscosity if it's intended purpose is for cars or motorcycles or space shuttles. The only thing different is the additive package in them. Maybe the spring tensioner was hung up and it finally popped loose. CCTs make noise because there's slack in the chain. Changing oil ain't gonna make your chain shrink.
But whatever it was, it's stopped making noise and that's what matters. :fing02:
NOpe, I've been dealing with clacking tensioner issues for thousands of miles, this was a light switch type change, and was oil related. I wont go into all the tricks I've tried with the tensioner itsself. The shaft of the tensioner does the clacking the chain is taught. I've actually allowed the tensioner to seperate from the block about 2mm , tensioner takes up the slack and retighten the tentioner, its not the chain making the noise.
more likely the metal cap harmonics with the shaft, some have removed the metal cap and that solved the noise issue, but I never tried that
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 4 2008, 02:02 PM, said:
[image: View Post]RRW, on Oct 4 2008, 03:55 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 4 2008, 01:46 PM, said:
What color socks?
I know it seems crazy, but it is what it is, it must be an oil flow issue to the front cct, the valvloine car oil is pretty thin , even the 20w50 comparitively to mc oil or Diesil oil.
The color of your socks probably has as much to do with the noise going away as changing to a car oil.
20-50 oil is the same viscosity if it's intended purpose is for cars or motorcycles or space shuttles. The only thing different is the additive package in them. Maybe the spring tensioner was hung up and it finally popped loose. CCTs make noise because there's slack in the chain. Changing oil ain't gonna make your chain shrink.
But whatever it was, it's stopped making noise and that's what matters. :fing02:
NOpe, I've been dealing with clacking tensioner issues for thousands of miles, this was a light switch type change, and was oil related. I wont go into all the tricks I've tried with the tensioner itsself
[image: View Post]RRW, on Oct 4 2008, 11:29 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 4 2008, 02:15 PM, said:
How many miles on your 06?
13,000 on the odometer, but I have a speedohealer, so it's really about 14,000
THere's alot of write ups on the vfr ccts, the rear cct gets alot of more oil flow compared the the front one and I havent had any issue with that one . The front one I had noise develope, started around 20,000 mile. I ended up replacing it for $70 and my effort, to only have it start making noise within 10,000 miles later, various tricks attempted. Actual chain noise sounds differnt than an oscillating tensioner
This is what many have experienced, they try tricks or just replace again
I was about to try the reddog fix, of increasing the internal tension of the spring, the front tension I have right now has 20,000 mile on it. I just came off another ride, quiet as a sleeping puppy dog.
I wonder those out there klacking, will take the valvoline car oil plunge?
if another illminates the issue, I'd say you'll atleast have to take notice of bewilderment >G<
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 6 2008, 06:26 AM, said:
THere's alot of write ups on the vfr ccts, the rear cct gets alot of more oil flow compared the the front one and I havent had any issue with that one .
It's the same with the VTR1000. It's believed that the CCT failure on those (usually the front goes first) is caused by lack of oil to the front CCT, combined with excessive use of engine braking and excessive idling of the bike with it on the sidestand (although that's conjecture).
I replaced my CCTs with APE manual ones.
EVERY Honda I've owned in the last 35 years has had noisy camchains, apart from three: one was a two-smoke, the other two had gear-driven cams.
You'd think after over 40 years in the game, Honda would've sorted this out.
[image: View Post]enzed_viffer, on Oct 5 2008, 02:16 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 6 2008, 06:26 AM, said:
THere's alot of write ups on the vfr ccts, the rear cct gets alot of more oil flow compared the the front one and I havent had any issue with that one .
It's the same with the VTR1000. It's believed that the CCT failure on those (usually the front goes first) is caused by lack of oil to the front CCT, combined with excessive use of engine braking and excessive idling of the bike with it on the sidestand (although that's conjecture).
I replaced my CCTs with APE manual ones.
EVERY Honda I've owned in the last 35 years has had noisy camchains, apart from three: one was a two-smoke, the other two had gear-driven cams.
You'd think after over 40 years in the game, Honda would've sorted this out.
There's somthing with this oil flow issue , thats is directly related . When these tensioners start clacking IMO its becuase the combo of spring tension internally, slightly weakens. THis allows the shaft to oscilate . some have internally increased the spring tension or remove the steel cap and noise went away. I proved just forcing more pressure on the chain its self does not rid the noise. This by loosening the screws on the tentioner and allow it to take up the slack then retight, That creates more than enough pressure on the chain itsself. The tensioner shaft contiues to have oscillation problems though.
Since installing the valvoline car oil, its been perfect(zero front cct noise). Only noted the valvoline pour points are much thinner than other oils I'd been running, Hondas new 10w30 recoomend may have something to do with cct noise also.
But I've gained enough testing and I agree, that it is an oil flow, internal spring issue or combo
just installing new tensioner , that the old one shows no wear at all, will only rid the noise temporarily, it will come back.
Way I see it, 3 choices, unless you want to waste another cct purchace, the metal cap removal, the internal tension adjustment, or improve the oil flow with valvoline car oil.
3 ways to try, or shell out another $70 for a temp fix
I don't think Valvoline is magical (although I like it for regular oil just fine), but it could be that it is the physical makeup of the oil that provides a bit more cusion to prevent the noise. It could also be dumb luck, I never count that out.
That being said, tell me again why you mix oil weights?
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Oct 14 2008, 05:24 PM, said:
I don't think Valvoline is magical (although I like it for regular oil just fine), but it could be that it is the physical makeup of the oil that provides a bit more cusion to prevent the noise. It could also be dumb luck, I never count that out.
That being said, tell me again why you mix oil weights?
dumb luck? that particualr front tensioner, has about 20,000 miles on it (a new replacement), around 7,000 mile started making noise again, everytime ridden over the following 18,000 miles or so clack clack clack at every idle stop sign or light( i mean chronic). I didnt change the oil to rid.
I came from a ride sick of listening to it (clacking loudly as I opened the garage door, shut the bike down, I needed to change the oil and decided to do that first before tackling the noise) and just happened to be valvoline cause I didnt feel like spending much money. It Has never made a clack since( 2,000 miles and counting). There's something definitely to it.
The reason I mixed the oil in this case was because 10w40's dont hold up well enough, so a bottle 20w50 was added for some additional longevity , for shift action and less viscosity degrade.
I've run everything from 5w40 to 2ow50 on this bike at one time or another
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 14 2008, 05:58 PM, said:
The reason I mixed the oil in this case was because 10w40's dont hold up well enough, so a bottle 20w50 was added for some additional longevity , for shift action and less viscosity degrade.
I've run everything from 5w40 to 2ow50 on this bike at one time or another
Now I am really curious, as this devolves into an oil thread....
What do you base "10w40's dont hold up well enough" on? I can understand wanting a viscosity between 10/40 and 20/50, although 99.99% of people couldn't tell the difference once the oil is warm, but oil is graded on it's resistance to break down under heat and pressure. In order to pass the current API ratings they have to perform at certain levels.
As a rule, overhead cam (OHC) engines typically require thinner oils such as 5W-30 or 5W-20 to speed lubrication of the overhead cam(s) and valve-train when the engine is first started. Pushrod engines, by comparison, can use either 5W-30, 10W-30 or 10W-40.
Having taken many motors apart, done oil analysis, and sold oil in a prior life, I got to hear lots of myths, misnomers, assumptions etc....I always like to know why people do what they do (not saying it is wrong, any more than wearing socks that are a different color is).
[image: View Post]Tightwad, on Oct 14 2008, 06:29 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 14 2008, 05:58 PM, said:
The reason I mixed the oil in this case was because 10w40's dont hold up well enough, so a bottle 20w50 was added for some additional longevity , for shift action and less viscosity degrade.
I've run everything from 5w40 to 2ow50 on this bike at one time or another
Now I am really curious, as this devolves into an oil thread....
What do you base "10w40's dont hold up well enough" on? I can understand wanting a viscosity between 10/40 and 20/50, although 99.99% of people couldn't tell the difference once the oil is warm, but oil is graded on it's resistance to break down under heat and pressure. In order to pass the current API ratings they have to perform at certain levels.
As a rule, overhead cam (OHC) engines typically require thinner oils such as 5W-30 or 5W-20 to speed lubrication of the overhead cam(s) and valve-train when the engine is first started. Pushrod engines, by comparison, can use either 5W-30, 10W-30 or 10W-40.
Having taken many motors apart, done oil analysis, and sold oil in a prior life, I got to hear lots of myths, misnomers, assumptions etc....I always like to know why people do what they do (not saying it is wrong, any more than wearing socks that are a different color is).
My oil analysis previously on my VFR showed 10w40 weights were 30 weights by 1000 mile, the vfr shifts better with the heavier weights.
( Thats all)
a side bit of info, my last bike had some cam lobe wear at 20,000 mile, running 5w40 Full motorcycle synthetic (1500 to 2000 mile intervals), but it also hovered near redline alot for extended periods of time.
Keep up the research, really, let us know if it comes back....Ive been thinking of getting a 6th gen but alot of my drawbacks is the CCT faliure issue.....keep us posted on resolution!!!
I have to admit, I'm also skeptical that the oil is what 'solved' the problem. I'd say a quick check of that would be to switch back to one of the previously used motorcycle oils and see if it comes back. If not then the oil is not the cause nor the solution.
Hopefully Spud786 will do this and post the results. It shouldn't take long, I figure he must change his oil every month if not more often.
I figure he must change his oil every month if not more often.)))))))
The valvoline will come out very soon, but I'd planned on going back in with same thing, actually this time was 2 bottles of valve 20w50 and 1 bottle 10w40.
I'd probably have to use 2 runs of other oil and oil changes to get all the valvoline out, I'll bet it wouldnt immediately do it just changing back to known Klacker oil. 2nd oil change Ill bet its there klacking.
[image: View Post]JJbigbird, on Oct 14 2008, 06:38 PM, said:
Keep up the research, really, let us know if it comes back....Ive been thinking of getting a 6th gen but alot of my drawbacks is the CCT faliure issue.....keep us posted on resolution!!!
The most positive thing, they dont fail, the front cct just likes to oscillate and klack
for failure to happen, the spring would have to break, and the cct unscrew, no issue with this happening on the 6th gens that I've seen.
[image: View Post]JJbigbird, on Oct 14 2008, 06:38 PM, said:
Keep up the research, really, let us know if it comes back....Ive been thinking of getting a 6th gen but alot of my drawbacks is the CCT faliure issue.....keep us posted on resolution!!!
I've never heard of a CCT actually failing. Do they make noise, absolutely, but the cam chain isn't loose, so it's not damaging anything. I'm not going to dig into mine if it is only an annoyance and not causing damage. I will continue to run the oil that a prefer for lubrication purposes, and I won't change oils just to quite a noisy CCT. It's a motorcycle that you sit on top of the engine, you will hear things that you would never hear in you $60,000 Caddy, or your $1,500 Toyota. Just my $.02
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 14 2008, 04:50 PM, said:
I figure he must change his oil every month if not more often.)))))))
The valvoline will come out very soon, but I'd planned on going back in with same thing, actually this time was 2 bottles of valve 20w50 and 1 bottle 10w40.
I'd probably have to use 2 runs of other oil and oil changes to get all the valvoline out, I'll bet it wouldnt immediately do it just changing back to known Klacker oil. 2nd oil change Ill bet its there klacking.
[image: View Post]RRW, on Oct 14 2008, 09:28 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 14 2008, 04:50 PM, said:
I figure he must change his oil every month if not more often.)))))))
The valvoline will come out very soon, but I'd planned on going back in with same thing, actually this time was 2 bottles of valve 20w50 and 1 bottle 10w40.
I'd probably have to use 2 runs of other oil and oil changes to get all the valvoline out, I'll bet it wouldnt immediately do it just changing back to known Klacker oil. 2nd oil change Ill bet its there klacking.
I'll consider the test>G<
What kind of odds are you laying?
Like 100%, by that 2nd oil change, 15w40 Motorcraft diesil sound okay?
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 14 2008, 07:45 PM, said:
[image: View Post]RRW, on Oct 14 2008, 09:28 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 14 2008, 04:50 PM, said:
I figure he must change his oil every month if not more often.)))))))
The valvoline will come out very soon, but I'd planned on going back in with same thing, actually this time was 2 bottles of valve 20w50 and 1 bottle 10w40.
I'd probably have to use 2 runs of other oil and oil changes to get all the valvoline out, I'll bet it wouldnt immediately do it just changing back to known Klacker oil. 2nd oil change Ill bet its there klacking.
I'll consider the test>G<
What kind of odds are you laying?
Like 100%, by that 2nd oil change, 15w40 Motorcraft diesil sound okay?
Give me 4:1 odds. Let me put lead seals on the filler and drain holes after you change the oil and I'll put $1000 down that says your test fails.
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 15 2008, 07:55 AM, said:
Now that you mention it, forcing myself to listen to the Klack again, just to hear interested partys Deny the results serves little purpose.
The thread is here for those to see, if they have trouble with the clack and dont want to replace the cct again and again and again.
They can try it out
you might find yourself in the same situation few miles down the road
I put 4 to 1 odds on that for sure :biggrin:
If I understood your original post correctly, you were stating that maybe a noisy CCT isn't such a bad thing after all. Given the fact that you have gone this far with the "experiment" I think it would be really nice to close the loop and try a motorcycle specific oil again. I'm not sure what it would hurt, besides a little annoyance on your part. I hope that's not asking too much!
Mc oil will klack on these ccts, there are people right now running mc oil and klacking. THere are people who have more miles on their bikes than the 50,000 I have on mine. They will tell ya they've replaced several tensioners, but thats their method to rid the noise atleast temporaily.
These things are $70 a peice, mail order
I didnt begin dealing with cct noise a few months ago, it started 30,000 mile ago, I tried a few tricks, like manually turning them out, which they were already out(didnt work). secondly forcing addtional pressure on the chain, by allowing the tensioner to seperate from the block and extending, then retightening. still the tensioner had klacking issues. Including replacing the tensioner which worked only for a few thousand miles.
Whats going to happen, if you have a 6th gen, when it starts klacking and it will , the few choices to remedy, are in this thread.
My test is really over, it was a light switch change, of a brand new tensioner than had been klacking chronically for 15,000 mile or began 7,000 mile after being replaced.
so , when the klackle starts, you can replace the tensioner, or tighten the internal spring , remove the metal cap or simply try The Valvoline car oil
Thats really what it boils down to , or like some just ignore the klackle
But the klackle on vfr tensioners is compltely non life threatening, cause its just the tensioner klackling and not a loose chain. The front one is the trouble maker in virtually all cases, the rear one is far better oiled being paralell to the ground, mine is still original on the rear tentioner.
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 15 2008, 07:05 PM, said:
But the klackle on vfr tensioners is compltely non life threatening,
Ok, so what's the big deal then? You speak as if this is a scientific test with rock solid results - prove it. If it won't hurt anything then why not run a motorcycle oil one more time? I don't think you have completely closed the loop on this one. Frankly, I don't think the oil had anything to do with it. Something else must have happened. In order to prove or disprove that you would need to go back to a known-bad configuration. If the noise does not come back then it wasn't the oil. If it does then you have at least some proof of your theory.
In order to prove or disprove that you would need to go back to a known-bad configuration. If the noise does not come back then it wasn't the oil. If it does then you have at least some proof of your theory. )))
I have a suspicion(near term), that somebody who has some intermittant klack will try it, no reason to rely on me.
wouldnt that be more beneficial than to wait on me?
Oil cost is not cheap, I'm certain it would take 2 oil changes for the klack to come back strongly
I've already purchased another batch of valvoline car oil for this next round
several years ago, in a cct thread, somebody mentioned they had the same result with valvoline car oil, but I blew it off , as I was not having issue at that time.
Don't know if it's the difference between M/C specific and regular Valvoline, but I can confirm that my '02 with 25k miles Klacks and rattles on Valvoline 20/50 M/C oil, but is quiet as a kitten on 10/40 conventional Valvoline. Noticed this in Aug this year. First, I have always used 10/40 Valvoline, but have switched between M/C and conventional depending what Autizone had cheap. Did a fresh change to 20/50 for a trip to NC, thinking it would be a good choice for 90+ temps and aggressive riding - by the time I got home I though I was going to have to replace both CCTs and do a valve adjustment. Came home and did an oil change, happened to have 10/40 conventional oil on hand, and what do you know? All quiet again. Based on this I am surmising that the restrictors that feed the valve train are too small to handle heavier oil - not the difference between M/C and conventional oil. I'll try Valvoline M/C specific 10/40 oil this weekend and see is it makes a difference. I will not put 20/50 anything in it again though......
[image: View Post]DaveM, on Oct 16 2008, 04:12 PM, said:
Don't know if it's the difference between M/C specific and regular Valvoline, but I can confirm that my '02 with 25k miles Klacks and rattles on Valvoline 20/50 M/C oil, but is quiet as a kitten on 10/40 conventional Valvoline. Noticed this in Aug this year. First, I have always used 10/40 Valvoline, but have switched between M/C and conventional depending what Autizone had cheap. Did a fresh change to 20/50 for a trip to NC, thinking it would be a good choice for 90+ temps and aggressive riding - by the time I got home I though I was going to have to replace both CCTs and do a valve adjustment. Came home and did an oil change, happened to have 10/40 conventional oil on hand, and what do you know? All quiet again. Based on this I am surmising that the restrictors that feed the valve train are too small to handle heavier oil - not the difference between M/C and conventional oil. I'll try Valvoline M/C specific 10/40 oil this weekend and see is it makes a difference. I will not put 20/50 anything in it again though......
I've ran the valvoline mc oil, it Klacks That was 2 quarts 10w40 one 20w50
I've only ran 15w40 diesils .20w50 mobil 1 mc oil, 15w50 mobile1 car oil in the last year, all seem to have klack issue
the front tentioner is vertically on top of the engine , just a tiny oil port
whether thin oils like 5w40 have the same effect I dont know, I didnt have klack issue back then when I ran them sub 10,000 mile , 15w40 amsoil I dont rember having klack issue, but that was 40,000 miles ago I ran it exclusivley for several oil changes.
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 16 2008, 02:32 PM, said:
[image: View Post]DaveM, on Oct 16 2008, 04:12 PM, said:
Don't know if it's the difference between M/C specific and regular Valvoline, but I can confirm that my '02 with 25k miles Klacks and rattles on Valvoline 20/50 M/C oil, but is quiet as a kitten on 10/40 conventional Valvoline. Noticed this in Aug this year. First, I have always used 10/40 Valvoline, but have switched between M/C and conventional depending what Autizone had cheap. Did a fresh change to 20/50 for a trip to NC, thinking it would be a good choice for 90+ temps and aggressive riding - by the time I got home I though I was going to have to replace both CCTs and do a valve adjustment. Came home and did an oil change, happened to have 10/40 conventional oil on hand, and what do you know? All quiet again. Based on this I am surmising that the restrictors that feed the valve train are too small to handle heavier oil - not the difference between M/C and conventional oil. I'll try Valvoline M/C specific 10/40 oil this weekend and see is it makes a difference. I will not put 20/50 anything in it again though......
I've ran the valvoline mc oil, it Klacks That was 2 quarts 10w40 one 20w50
I think we are on to something though
I'm onto you running your bike a third of a quart low on oil if you are only putting 3 quarts in when you change it.
[image: View Post]DaveM, on Oct 16 2008, 05:12 PM, said:
Don't know if it's the difference between M/C specific and regular Valvoline, but I can confirm that my '02 with 25k miles Klacks and rattles on Valvoline 20/50 M/C oil, but is quiet as a kitten on 10/40 conventional Valvoline. Noticed this in Aug this year. First, I have always used 10/40 Valvoline, but have switched between M/C and conventional depending what Autizone had cheap. Did a fresh change to 20/50 for a trip to NC, thinking it would be a good choice for 90+ temps and aggressive riding - by the time I got home I though I was going to have to replace both CCTs and do a valve adjustment. Came home and did an oil change, happened to have 10/40 conventional oil on hand, and what do you know? All quiet again. Based on this I am surmising that the restrictors that feed the valve train are too small to handle heavier oil - not the difference between M/C and conventional oil. I'll try Valvoline M/C specific 10/40 oil this weekend and see is it makes a difference. I will not put 20/50 anything in it again though......
Now I think you're on to something. Newer bikes have the oil pumps/passages/clearances/etc/etc sized for lighter weight oil. It is no longer necessary or beneficial to run 20w50 weight oil.
[image: View Post]JamieDaugherty, on Oct 17 2008, 06:01 AM, said:
[image: View Post]DaveM, on Oct 16 2008, 05:12 PM, said:
Don't know if it's the difference between M/C specific and regular Valvoline, but I can confirm that my '02 with 25k miles Klacks and rattles on Valvoline 20/50 M/C oil, but is quiet as a kitten on 10/40 conventional Valvoline. Noticed this in Aug this year. First, I have always used 10/40 Valvoline, but have switched between M/C and conventional depending what Autizone had cheap. Did a fresh change to 20/50 for a trip to NC, thinking it would be a good choice for 90+ temps and aggressive riding - by the time I got home I though I was going to have to replace both CCTs and do a valve adjustment. Came home and did an oil change, happened to have 10/40 conventional oil on hand, and what do you know? All quiet again. Based on this I am surmising that the restrictors that feed the valve train are too small to handle heavier oil - not the difference between M/C and conventional oil. I'll try Valvoline M/C specific 10/40 oil this weekend and see is it makes a difference. I will not put 20/50 anything in it again though......
Now I think you're on to something. Newer bikes have the oil pumps/passages/clearances/etc/etc sized for lighter weight oil. It is no longer necessary or beneficial to run 20w50 weight oil.
On the vfr 6th gens, 20w50 was an option in 2002, by 2006 it wasnt even in the manual as an option(10w40) recommend, 07 the recommend went to 10w30 recommend.
Keep in mind the oil passages didnt change over than time, and 15 w 40 oils will klack too.
It would be nice if it was a simple viscosity issue, but I think its more than that, cause klack can happen even on 15w40's after thousands of miles on them, which I know the viscosity is no longer a 40 weight.
By the way my new batch is 20w50 valvoline car oil , there's something in componentry of the valvoline car oil the cct likes
I started thinking some more about this. When comparing the part numbers, the VFR is different from the VTR (which I'm most familiar) but they both look to be mechanical tensioners. What clued me in to check this was when Spud stated something about backing off the ratchet and loosening the mounting bolts to ratchet it to the next increment.
If, in fact, the VFR's use the same style mechanical tensioner (and I think they do) then the oil HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Funny.
Vfr tensioner is not a ratchet type, its a screw type with wind up spring. The ratchet types are tooth pawl design with compression spring
The vfr tensioner does have oil ports to lubricate the internals of the tensioner
But your correct that oil plays no part in tensioning of the tensioner as far as hydraulic pressue, thats why so many cant believe the valvoline car oil effect. But it seems to get up in the internals of the tensioner and does its thing like a good antibiotic
Has any one taking one of these CCT's apart to see what is making the noise? The people that replaced them, did you just replaced them, and thru the old ones out, with out looking to see what went bad? I would love to have one of the bad ones to tear apart and inspect it. Maybe there is a easy fix or not for it. A little machining, a steel bushing, might be all it takes. Who knows?
On CBR tensioners, there's a split pin that holds the cap in place; those can be tapped open to eliminate the noise.
I let my F4i just clatter away. I don't see the point in spending $$$ on something that isn't broken, just so it can make noise again in a few thousand miles.
[image: View Post]RustyA, on Oct 18 2008, 07:39 AM, said:
Has any one taking one of these CCT's apart to see what is making the noise? The people that replaced them, did you just replaced them, and thru the old ones out, with out looking to see what went bad? I would love to have one of the bad ones to tear apart and inspect it. Maybe there is a easy fix or not for it. A little machining, a steel bushing, might be all it takes. Who knows?
brand new ones and ones that rattle look indentical, no wear
I'd say the spring tension weakens slightly over time and this lets the shaft occilate. You can increase the winding tension, its technique sensitive, the whole thing can unwind if not careful.
But the rear one thats better oiled , I've never had issue with
[image: View Post]RustyA, on Oct 18 2008, 01:39 PM, said:
Has any one taking one of these CCT's apart to see what is making the noise? The people that replaced them, did you just replaced them, and thru the old ones out, with out looking to see what went bad? I would love to have one of the bad ones to tear apart and inspect it. Maybe there is a easy fix or not for it. A little machining, a steel bushing, might be all it takes. Who knows?
the metal cap on the cct can be removed
its rubber underneath giving a cushion between the cct and the chain guide
20,000 since i removed mine with no problem
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 18 2008, 08:27 AM, said:
Vfr tensioner is not a ratchet type, its a screw type with wind up spring. The ratchet types are tooth pawl design with compression spring
That's the same thing I was talking about.
[image: View Post]RustyA, on Oct 18 2008, 08:39 AM, said:
Has any one taking one of these CCT's apart to see what is making the noise? The people that replaced them, did you just replaced them, and thru the old ones out, with out looking to see what went bad? I would love to have one of the bad ones to tear apart and inspect it. Maybe there is a easy fix or not for it. A little machining, a steel bushing, might be all it takes. Who knows?
Sure, several of the VTR guys have done so. There's even a guy in the UK, I think, who sells an 'upgrade' kit with a new spring. I don't know of anyone who has tried it though.
[image: View Post]JamieDaugherty, on Oct 19 2008, 10:48 AM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Oct 18 2008, 08:27 AM, said:
Vfr tensioner is not a ratchet type, its a screw type with wind up spring. The ratchet types are tooth pawl design with compression spring
That's the same thing I was talking about.
[image: View Post]RustyA, on Oct 18 2008, 08:39 AM, said:
Has any one taking one of these CCT's apart to see what is making the noise? The people that replaced them, did you just replaced them, and thru the old ones out, with out looking to see what went bad? I would love to have one of the bad ones to tear apart and inspect it. Maybe there is a easy fix or not for it. A little machining, a steel bushing, might be all it takes. Who knows?
Sure, several of the VTR guys have done so. There's even a guy in the UK, I think, who sells an 'upgrade' kit with a new spring. I don't know of anyone who has tried it though.
If you remove the circlip on the body of the tensioner, you can twist the body in relation to the inner screw and it will increase the pressure on the screw spring which extends the shaft.
What I did previously was to allow a couple milimeters of block seperation, which the shaft automatically extends(and it does not back off), when retighting the body to the block, this added extention goes directly into chain tension, it had some effect but, not much, still intermittant klackle.
This says its not the chain klackling, its the internals of the tensioner occilating, the question is why one oil quietens this while others dont, on a tensioner that has become prone to klackling?
I could pull this this tensioner and do the increase spring tension trick, but as long as the valvoline works, I dont see the extra work needed.
I rode today on the valvoline 20w50 car oil, quiet as still darkness
The main reason I'm running the 2ow50 is shift quality and longevity, 10w40 car oils longevity is about 2000 mile max in an MC
I prefer 2500 to 3,000 mile , esepcially since valvoline car oil is right at $4 per bottle, Man thats expensive for cheap stuff
as you can see, one rider removed the metal cap, which puts the chain guide against rubber instead of metal , this eliminated the occilation, another rider also has used the valoline car oil and had same effect. Its what ever removes that occliation, which IMO is mainly realated to having the tensioner on the very top of the motor, with a tiny oil port, the front is very prone to occsilation, the rear tensioner (indetical), I've yet to have issue with, but its location, its flooded with oil flow.
Just alittle update, aftter running that intial batch of valvoline 10w40 combo with no klack, next oil change I switched to 20w50 valvoline, about 1000 miles front tentioner was klacking again.
I switched to Exxon 10w40 , no more klack.
Definitely seems to be an oiling issue with the klack on the front tensioner , heavier weight oils seem to have more issue with potential klacking.
[image: View Post]spud786, on Nov 21 2008, 02:46 PM, said:
[image: View Post]vinnyl26, on Nov 21 2008, 03:50 PM, said:
I thought you were not supposed to use car oils in a motorcycle because of the additives screw with the clutches in our bikes?
as long as they are not energy conserving type or MB rated fluid(which most energy conserving types are), not really an issue with the clutch.
How can you tell if it is MB rated?
[image: View Post]vinnyl26, on Nov 22 2008, 11:49 PM, said:
[image: View Post]spud786, on Nov 21 2008, 02:46 PM, said:
[image: View Post]vinnyl26, on Nov 21 2008, 03:50 PM, said:
I thought you were not supposed to use car oils in a motorcycle because of the additives screw with the clutches in our bikes?
as long as they are not energy conserving type or MB rated fluid(which most energy conserving types are), not really an issue with the clutch.
How can you tell if it is MB rated?
it may say on the bottle, or go to the web site, pretty much all energy efficient star symbol oils are mb rated, including redline motorcycle oils, 20w50 valvoline racing oil to name a few.
some bikes will do okay even on mb fluids, but high potential of slippage issue could result, most the diesil oils have good frictional clutch properties
amsoil , some of these oils are mb rated and some arent, they are pretty good at showing which type they are in their labeling or website.
As mentioned using 10w40 has solved my klack issue on the front tensioner(20w50 valvoline brought back the klack), and its not exclusive to the valvoline , EXXON 10w40 works too and it seems to have slightly better shift quality.
so if running 15w40's or 20w50's and klacking, might give the lighter weights a try
[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Oct 17 2008, 09:03 PM, said:
Funny, my bike has only ever had Honda GN4 in it, 22,000 miles, and no CCT noise. Huh.
Hmmmm..."GN4"....I always wondered what that meant........Guh..Guuuu.......Good....Nuf.......for.......Hmmmnnn.. :biggrin:
Beck
95 VFR
End of thread · 55 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 12 Apr 2010