Question To Welders

I'm thinking of learning how to weld to be able to do my own little projects, like gutting exhaust, building racks from tubing, etc...
I'll get a How-To book or a CD and I'm trying to choose a suitable welder for the task(s).
From the research that I've done so far, MIG is the way to go for me. Furthermore, I see this flux core welder from HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/44500-44599/44567.gif

I know that it may not be perfect and perhaps the $hittiest thing out there, but would it do the job on stainless, aluminum and chromoly sheet and tubing assuming that it isn't too thick?
I mean for a total beginner like myself, what should I watch out for?
I really don't want to spend 2-3 G on a welder, which I will use a couple of times a year.
This thing can be had for about $100 right now.
Thanks!

[image: View Post]Rice, on Jan 16 2009, 01:42 PM, said:

I'm thinking of learning how to weld to be able to do my own little projects, like gutting exhaust, building racks from tubing, etc...
I'll get a How-To book or a CD and I'm trying to choose a suitable welder for the task(s).
From the research that I've done so far, MIG is the way to go for me. Furthermore, I see this flux core welder from HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/44500-44599/44567.gif

I know that it may not be perfect and perhaps the $hittiest thing out there, but would it do the job on stainless, aluminum and chromoly sheet and tubing assuming that it isn't too thick?
I mean for a total beginner like myself, what should I watch out for?
I really don't want to spend 2-3 G on a welder, which I will use a couple of times a year.
This thing can be had for about $100 right now.
Thanks!

You get what you pay for. Keep in mind different materials require different shielding gasses = multiple tanks.You may also need to change out the inner casing on the wire feed= multple spools.
I could be way off here but the last time I purchsed welders for our shop,I bought mig,tig and arc.

Thanks!
No shop here. Just me tinkering, trying this and that.
I'll start with my gutted exhaust, which needs to be welded back together.
I'm sure that once I get the hang of it, new projects will present themselves.

MIG's are great for many tasks, but thin wall stuff and any non-steel welding are best handles by a TIG. (wish I had one) I have ox/acet, stick & a Miller Mig welder, some day I'll have a TIG too. :blush:

ps I think the flux core MIG's lack in performance compared to standard MIG's.

You can get good 110v Migs new for around $500 new like Miller, Lincon, etc..

I started off buying an inexpensive Lincoln MIG unit. Check eBay, I picked up a new unit at about half of retail ($250 vs $500). I'm not sure you'll be able to do aluminum with that HF unit also, for aluminum you'll need gas and that unit may not accommodate any gas hookups, it looks like it's only flux core. Flux core is not going to give as nice a weld. Check out http://weldingweb.com/ for more tips.

Consider your electrical needs also, I had to install a new 220 outlet in the garage which meant a new breaker in the panel, etc.

Based on my experience, I would suggest a short course, maybe through a local junior college. I played around a lot, burning up spool after spool. If I had to do it over I'd start with the class, I'm still no good at it. :laugh:

A local high school offers a welding course. Unfortunately I can't go this spring. I'm hoping they offer another in the fall or next spring.

Welding is one of those things that is super useful (at least in my book).

Pretty much forget about welding anything but small thickness steel, especially with this low end flux core type MIG. Any other alloy is about impossible with a MIG, even a good one. :dry:

Some time back my dad bought an "inexpensive" mig welder and it was ok for a while. The biggest hassle was getting it to feed the wire consistently and you always had to fiddle with it to make it work right. It now sits in the garage with a defective control switch because parts aren't available. Keep that in mind if you go with a cheaper welder.

You also might consider one of those portable oxy-acetylene rigs if you aren't doing a lot of work.

http://doit101.com/Images/oxyact.jpg

The welder that you have pictured is Harbor Freight, right? I bought on of those for doing a small wrought iron in the backyard. Easier to handle with no tank, but as said before you get what you pay for, or don't pay for.

To do your exhaust you will need a Tig AND someone that has been trained, that welding job is not an easy one, I have done a few.

For around the house kinda thing, (welding steel only) I would have to say it was worth the 100 bones I paid for it. But dont expect that thing to do nice welds, splatters with the flux wire, penetrates to an 1/8 inch pretty well on high with the feed perfect.

My suggestion, save up a bit more and buy a Mig with a tank, you will find that they are easier to use, and can do more with them. The other thing is you will wind up doing small weld jobs for buddies,,, and around here they dont stop unless they have :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[image: View Post]cruzinaz, on Jan 16 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

To do your exhaust you will need a Tig AND someone that has been trained, that welding job is not an easy one, I have done a few.

I have to disagree here as MIG's are prefect for exhaust system work especially with slip in or over lap work and you'll find them at most muffler shops as their main welder. Old school guys still us Ox/acetylene and do very well. :biggrin:
Now if you plan to hand build a set of headers a TIG is the only way to go especially for butt welding thin wall.

It is harder to fill holes with a Mig but doable. :blush:

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Jan 16 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzinaz, on Jan 16 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

To do your exhaust you will need a Tig AND someone that has been trained, that welding job is not an easy one, I have done a few.

I have to disagree here as MIG's are prefect for exhaust system work especially with slip in or over lap work and you'll find them at most muffler shops as their main welder. Old school guys still us Ox/acetylene and do very well. :biggrin:
Now if you plan to hand build a set of headers a TIG is the only way to go especially for butt welding thin wall.

It is harder to fill holes with a Mig but doable. :blush: So you would butt weld your VFR cans back together with MIG?

Not me, "butt" to each his own :laugh: :laugh:

First off, Dmitry, if your main reason for buying that welder is to weld your VFR exhaust, step away. I have one of those little cheapy units and they work ok for making things stick together, but that's about it.

I welded up a bench out of 1/8th steel angle(actually old bed frames that I cut to fit). I had to weld on both sides to make sure it held.

The flux core wire used in this WIRE FEED WELDER makes a mess and the whole system in these cheap units is questionable.

A MIG welder(a welder that feeds wire out of the gun with shielding gas from a tank), is very handy to have and, when the right model is used, can handle a much wider range of material than the wire feed welder can.

In order to get good welds on anything over 1/8", you really need a 220v machine.

The welder you show above does NOT weld aluminum. Aluminum is welded using AC current, while steels are welded using DC current.

It is possible to weld aluminum with a MIG welder, although it is far from the preferred method.

I'm saving up for a TIG welder, I hope to have it ready to go here by mid summer. It's made by Thermal Arc and costs about $2200 after I buy the gas bottle and some filler rod.


I highly suggest you check out your area for colleges or vocational schools that offer night classes for adults. I took a MIG welding course a number of years ago, and we were allowed to bring items in for projects, the instructor allowed us to use some of the other machines also after he recognized us as being competent.

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Jan 16 2009, 06:19 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzinaz, on Jan 16 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

To do your exhaust you will need a Tig AND someone that has been trained, that welding job is not an easy one, I have done a few.

I have to disagree here as MIG's are prefect for exhaust system work especially with slip in or over lap work and you'll find them at most muffler shops as their main welder. Old school guys still us Ox/acetylene and do very well. :biggrin:
Now if you plan to hand build a set of headers a TIG is the only way to go especially for butt welding thin wall.

It is harder to fill holes with a Mig but doable. :blush:


I think it's easier to fill holes with a MIG? But I also prefer TIG welding aluminum over steel... most guys at work are the opposite.

An oxy/ace setup is a great thing to have, very versatile. Different tips for the torch allow a lot of choices for welding, heating, burning, etc.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jan 16 2009, 03:00 PM, said:

An oxy/ace setup is a great thing to have, very versatile. Different tips for the torch allow a lot of choices for welding, heating, burning, etc.
So can an oxy/ace set up pretty much weld anything a mig/tig/stick could handle or are the applications limited? I've only ever done arc welding but wanted to try the gas. Could you make up an exhaust system with it?

[image: View Post]vfrcapn, on Jan 16 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jan 16 2009, 03:00 PM, said:

An oxy/ace setup is a great thing to have, very versatile. Different tips for the torch allow a lot of choices for welding, heating, burning, etc.
So can an oxy/ace set up pretty much weld anything a mig/tig/stick could handle or are the applications limited? I've only ever done arc welding but wanted to try the gas. Could you make up an exhaust system with it?


You could, but in this day and age "there is a tool for every job". Gas welding is very similar to tig welding, like the motions, but tig offers finer control and cleaner welds. The process means it takes longer than mig welding, but with nicer results.

Throw my 2 cents in...

got a lightly used Lincoln SP-125 Plus(110 volt) last summer from my buddies mother(true!) with a M tank of CO2/Argon, craftsman rollaway, ton of vice grips, helmet, really just the entire setup for a bargain price, just had to buy a set of gloves. Practiced quite a bit and have done exhaust to frames and everything in between. The shielding gas makes a ton of difference as welds look like chicken splatter without it. It is definitely hard to make a pretty weld _for me_ on thin exhaust tubing, but I`m pretty good with a flapper wheel! Any real serious stuff like stainless exhaust I`ll leave to a pro with a TIG. You should see the job on the Mutant`s one-off exhaust done by a pro with a TIG. Aluminum is another I`ll leave to a pro for now, but for most steel projects, I`ll take a crack at it, as long as I test my settings beforehand.

Guess what I`m trying to say is it`s possible to get decent equipment for reasonable money. Watched someone weld thick caster brackets on a large beefy boat trailer with this exact same little Lincoln so I know it will do some serious stuff. Also easy to throw money in the trash as another friend bought a cheap stick welder to "save money"...almost can`t be used as it`s such a POS.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on Jan 16 2009, 06:00 PM, said:

First off, Dmitry, if your main reason for buying that welder is to weld your VFR exhaust, step away. I have one of those little cheapy units and they work ok for making things stick together, but that's about it.

I welded up a bench out of 1/8th steel angle(actually old bed frames that I cut to fit). I had to weld on both sides to make sure it held.

The flux core wire used in this WIRE FEED WELDER makes a mess and the whole system in these cheap units is questionable.

A MIG welder(a welder that feeds wire out of the gun with shielding gas from a tank), is very handy to have and, when the right model is used, can handle a much wider range of material than the wire feed welder can.

In order to get good welds on anything over 1/8", you really need a 220v machine.

The welder you show above does NOT weld aluminum. Aluminum is welded using AC current, while steels are welded using DC current.

It is possible to weld aluminum with a MIG welder, although it is far from the preferred method.

I'm saving up for a TIG welder, I hope to have it ready to go here by mid summer. It's made by Thermal Arc and costs about $2200 after I buy the gas bottle and some filler rod.


I highly suggest you check out your area for colleges or vocational schools that offer night classes for adults. I took a MIG welding course a number of years ago, and we were allowed to bring items in for projects, the instructor allowed us to use some of the other machines also after he recognized us as being competent.

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Jan 16 2009, 06:19 PM, said:

[image: View Post]cruzinaz, on Jan 16 2009, 04:01 PM, said:

To do your exhaust you will need a Tig AND someone that has been trained, that welding job is not an easy one, I have done a few.

I have to disagree here as MIG's are prefect for exhaust system work especially with slip in or over lap work and you'll find them at most muffler shops as their main welder. Old school guys still us Ox/acetylene and do very well. :biggrin:
Now if you plan to hand build a set of headers a TIG is the only way to go especially for butt welding thin wall.

It is harder to fill holes with a Mig but doable. :blush:


I think it's easier to fill holes with a MIG? But I also prefer TIG welding aluminum over steel... most guys at work are the opposite.

An oxy/ace setup is a great thing to have, very versatile. Different tips for the torch allow a lot of choices for welding, heating, burning, etc.



SEBSPEED = Mr Wizard

+1

[image: View Post]poconovfr, on Jan 18 2009, 02:13 AM, said:

SEBSPEED = Mr Wizard

+1

I try to remember the important stuff... :rolleyes:

Lots of misinformation in this thread............I'm sure the folks are well meaning, but welding technology, like computers, is moving so fast it's hard to keep up. I've been welding for over 30 years. Owned many different welders from cheap Chinese units to top of the line American stuff. I've recently downsized a bit as the technology has created really great machines for reasonable prices.

I always recommend a first time welder get an inexpensive Oxy/Acet set up. This is the best way to understand the welding process. It's very slow, easy to see the process and an O/A set up allows you to cut metal, braze just about anything and weld all carbon steels. And no matter what electric welder you buy in the future, you'll always need an O?A set up for bending, heating, cutting etc.

I've had this O/A set up for 30 years. I just fabricated a new cart for it.
http://images45.fotki.com/v1310/photos/3/36012/6993626/P1010532-vi.jpg

Next in line is a MIG. But there is nothing as frustrating as a cheap MIG machine. I bought two cheap Harbor Freight type units before I spent the $1000 on a Miller unit. Contrary to what folks are writing on this thread. MIG is used all the time for exhaust work. Both stainless steel and carbon steel. And a DC MIg, set up properly will weld aluminum perfectly. I was using a new Miller 350P the other night on 20ga aluminum up to 3'8" aluminum and it was a fantastic welder. This unit, set up as it was, cost about $5000. But I've used simple MIG machines with spool guns for aluminum and they can be had in a system for around $1500. A properly set up MIG can weld anything. This is how 99.9% of production welding, in all materials is handled.

This is my MIG machine, MILLER 185 Millermatic
http://images45.fotki.com/v1394/photos/3/36012/7073481/P1010613-vi.jpg

TIG welding is the "Art" of welding. It takes a deft touch, but even this technology is improving in leaps and bounds. Miller recently introduced a TIG Welder for Dummies..........Diversion 165. I have one in the shop right now and it's an amazing machine. After 15-20 minutes, most folks can run a bead in steel or aluminum. Cost...$1300.

This is my new TIG, MILLER DIVERSION 165
http://images43.fotki.com/v1369/photos/3/36012/6984454/P1010508-vi.jpg

And the MILLER Syncrowave 180SD TIG I recently sold
http://images42.fotki.com/v1313/photos/3/36012/5990996/P1010441-vi.jpg

A well executed TIG weld is a thing of beauty. TIG can weld anything, including exotic materials like Titanium. But there is a huge learning curve when you get into these materials. "Back Purging, Pre Heating.......It's a science at times.

Go to the Miller, Lincoln and Hobart web sites. They all have excellent information and the forums they host are invaluable.


"WELDING.................IT'S LIKE KNITTING FOR MEN!"

I like the Diversion TIG. Read a couple welding forum threads about it, seems some welders hate the simple aspect of it....guess I kind of like it`s capabilities and the price. Maybe a TIG sometime in my future without breaking the bank...

[image: View Post]rbertalotto, on Jan 18 2009, 07:49 AM, said:

Go to the Miller, Lincoln and Hobart web sites. They all have excellent information and the forums they host are invaluable.


"WELDING.................IT'S LIKE KNITTING FOR MEN!"

Great stuff, all. Thanks! :fing02:

As an experienced welder, my advice is to take a class or two at your local high school or college before buying anything. Not only will you learn and practice the basics of Ox/Actl , stick welding, mig, and possibly tig but you will also become familiar enough with the techniques and equipment to make a good choice for your equipment purchase(s).

Thanks all for great advice. :fing02:
I am going to look fo a class in my area.
Then probably go with Oxy/Acet setup if it is not too much money.
It looks like it would be the most versatile of all.

I am not sure if O/A can do Aluminum? I don't recall ever doing it in school, but that was 15 years ago. I took 3 semesters of welding "for fun" at a Junior College. I don't have a welder today but I sure would love one. I would also want an O/A torch although i wouldn't weld with it, as Mig is much more convenient.

It's nice to hear TIG is improving in ease, I have never done it because it looked so daunting while in school, and I wasn't using aluminum.