Stalling At The First Stop Light In The Morning

Bizarre problem that's been happening with increased frequency over the past 1000 miles or so. I'll start up the bike in the morning, idles fine. When I get to the first stop light and shift into neutral, the revs will drop and the bike will stall. It'll start right back up and it won't happen again the rest of the day.

Almost 21k miles, no valve adjustment or starter valve sync done yet.

Gutted exhaust + PC3/Coyze

Ideas?

[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jul 25 2009, 11:09 AM, said:

Bizarre problem that's been happening with increased frequency over the past 1000 miles or so. I'll start up the bike in the morning, idles fine. When I get to the first stop light and shift into neutral, the revs will drop and the bike will stall. It'll start right back up and it won't happen again the rest of the day.

Almost 21k miles, no valve adjustment or starter valve sync done yet.

Gutted exhaust + PC3/Coyze

Ideas?
Do you wait till the temp gets to 95� before you ride off in the morning. I was told to turn the key on but not start till all the instrument lights have stopped flickering, then start and wait till the temp. light comes on (95�).
If you do all that, the next thing I'd check is the idle might be to low. I was reading on here that 1300 was a good idle speed.
If nothing else this post will help keep you up front till someone that knows more can help....

[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jul 25 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

Bizarre problem that's been happening with increased frequency over the past 1000 miles or so. I'll start up the bike in the morning, idles fine. When I get to the first stop light and shift into neutral, the revs will drop and the bike will stall. It'll start right back up and it won't happen again the rest of the day.

Almost 21k miles, no valve adjustment or starter valve sync done yet.

Gutted exhaust + PC3/Coyze

Ideas?

When the rpm's drop, do the rpms stay below a 1k for a second or two then it just dies?

[image: View Post]adam79, on Jul 25 2009, 09:33 AM, said:

[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jul 25 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

Bizarre problem that's been happening with increased frequency over the past 1000 miles or so. I'll start up the bike in the morning, idles fine. When I get to the first stop light and shift into neutral, the revs will drop and the bike will stall. It'll start right back up and it won't happen again the rest of the day.

Almost 21k miles, no valve adjustment or starter valve sync done yet.

Gutted exhaust + PC3/Coyze

Ideas?

When the rpm's drop, do the rpms stay below a 1k for a second or two then it just dies?

This is an old post of mine. This was the problem i was having with my 04 vfr800. "Faith7" also had the same problem with his 04vfr. I never found a fix for the problem and had to sell the bike. I also did the starter valve adj. but it didnt help. I had 8k miles on the bike when I sold it.

" Mine still does it after the recall. So, I am gonna try to raise the idle next. Idles at about 1200. So I will try pushing it up to 1400 like was mentioned.I bought a 04 vfr800 brand new on 6-14-07...........leftover stock. Ever since, its stalled intermintantly. Most of the time it's when im coming to a stop, with the clutch pulled in. Before it dies, the rpm's will fall below 1k rpms (600-800rpms) then die. If I keep the engine reved up it will run, if I let off the throttle it dies. Recall didnt fix the problem (front wireing harness replaced only). New spark plugs, new fuel pump, new battery, Fuel cleaner. Turning up the idle helped for 562miles, then the dying started again. So if you do turn the idle up, give it some time before you get your hopes up. Ive had the bike to three different dealerships and no one seems to be able to recreate the problem. But then again no one will ride it long enough for the "intermintint" problem to arise. Ive been fighting with honda for 10 months now, with no help."

Oh yea, when my bike died, I could restart it and all was fine, until it happened again.

[image: View Post]adam79, on Jul 25 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

This is an old post of mine. This was the problem i was having with my 04 vfr800. "Faith7" also had the same problem with his 04vfr. I never found a fix for the problem and had to sell the bike. I also did the starter valve adj. but it didnt help. I had 8k miles on the bike when I sold it.

" Mine still does it after the recall. So, I am gonna try to raise the idle next. Idles at about 1200. So I will try pushing it up to 1400 like was mentioned.I bought a 04 vfr800 brand new on 6-14-07...........leftover stock. Ever since, its stalled intermintantly. Most of the time it's when im coming to a stop, with the clutch pulled in. Before it dies, the rpm's will fall below 1k rpms (600-800rpms) then die. If I keep the engine reved up it will run, if I let off the throttle it dies. Recall didnt fix the problem (front wireing harness replaced only). New spark plugs, new fuel pump, new battery, Fuel cleaner. Turning up the idle helped for 562miles, then the dying started again. So if you do turn the idle up, give it some time before you get your hopes up. Ive had the bike to three different dealerships and no one seems to be able to recreate the problem. But then again no one will ride it long enough for the "intermintint" problem to arise. Ive been fighting with honda for 10 months now, with no help."

Oh yea, when my bike died, I could restart it and all was fine, until it happened again.


Yes! Very bizarre... thats my problem exactly. I've owned the bike for 11k miles and it's only started doing this in the last month or so. What's different about the 04s? I can try pushing the idle up (right now it is 1100-1200).

[image: View Post]Monk, on Jul 25 2009, 08:32 AM, said:

Do you wait till the temp gets to 95� before you ride off in the morning. I was told to turn the key on but not start till all the instrument lights have stopped flickering, then start and wait till the temp. light comes on (95�).
If you do all that, the next thing I'd check is the idle might be to low. I was reading on here that 1300 was a good idle speed.
If nothing else this post will help keep you up front till someone that knows more can help....


FYI, I believe the best way to warm up a vehicle is by driving/riding it slowly. I start the bike and ride off 10 seconds later. Never had a problem until recently.

[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jul 25 2009, 10:12 AM, said:

[image: View Post]adam79, on Jul 25 2009, 08:48 AM, said:

This is an old post of mine. This was the problem i was having with my 04 vfr800. "Faith7" also had the same problem with his 04vfr. I never found a fix for the problem and had to sell the bike. I also did the starter valve adj. but it didnt help. I had 8k miles on the bike when I sold it.

" Mine still does it after the recall. So, I am gonna try to raise the idle next. Idles at about 1200. So I will try pushing it up to 1400 like was mentioned.I bought a 04 vfr800 brand new on 6-14-07...........leftover stock. Ever since, its stalled intermintantly. Most of the time it's when im coming to a stop, with the clutch pulled in. Before it dies, the rpm's will fall below 1k rpms (600-800rpms) then die. If I keep the engine reved up it will run, if I let off the throttle it dies. Recall didnt fix the problem (front wireing harness replaced only). New spark plugs, new fuel pump, new battery, Fuel cleaner. Turning up the idle helped for 562miles, then the dying started again. So if you do turn the idle up, give it some time before you get your hopes up. Ive had the bike to three different dealerships and no one seems to be able to recreate the problem. But then again no one will ride it long enough for the "intermintint" problem to arise. Ive been fighting with honda for 10 months now, with no help."

Oh yea, when my bike died, I could restart it and all was fine, until it happened again.


Yes! Very bizarre... thats my problem exactly. I've owned the bike for 11k miles and it's only started doing this in the last month or so. What's different about the 04s? I can try pushing the idle up (right now it is 1100-1200).

Try turning it up, it won't hurt to try, but don't get your hopes up. There's alot of people that say it helped them, I wish it was the fix for the problem that I had.

Try opening your gas cap when you leave your house and see if it still stalls. If it doesn't, you may have some kind of fuel supply / vapor recovery system problem. I had something similar on a previous bike, but now that I think of it, this was after driving for awhile and a vacuum built up in the tank. Worth a shot...

Just remember to do one thing at a time so you'll know what the problem is.

[image: View Post]jmardy, on Jul 26 2009, 01:29 PM, said:

Try opening your gas cap when you leave your house and see if it still stalls. If it doesn't, you may have some kind of fuel supply / vapor recovery system problem. I had something similar on a previous bike, but now that I think of it, this was after driving for awhile and a vacuum built up in the tank. Worth a shot...

Thanks, this is easy, I'll try this one first.

[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jul 25 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

Bizarre problem that's been happening with increased frequency over the past 1000 miles or so. I'll start up the bike in the morning, idles fine. When I get to the first stop light and shift into neutral, the revs will drop and the bike will stall. It'll start right back up and it won't happen again the rest of the day.

Almost 21k miles, no valve adjustment or starter valve sync done yet.

Gutted exhaust + PC3/Coyze

Ideas?

Hello,

Bizarre in my side also, i have the same problem of low idle speed (800 rpm ) , when it happen, i can saw it is linked with a really poor power ( Like 2 cylinder running instead 4 ??? )

Did you fix your problem since July25 th

JeanB

[image: View Post]jeanb, on Aug 19 2009, 09:51 AM, said:

[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jul 25 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

Bizarre problem that's been happening with increased frequency over the past 1000 miles or so. I'll start up the bike in the morning, idles fine. When I get to the first stop light and shift into neutral, the revs will drop and the bike will stall. It'll start right back up and it won't happen again the rest of the day.

Almost 21k miles, no valve adjustment or starter valve sync done yet.

Gutted exhaust + PC3/Coyze

Ideas?

Hello,

Bizarre in my side also, i have the same problem of low idle speed (800 rpm ) , when it happen, i can saw it is linked with a really poor power ( Like 2 cylinder running instead 4 ??? )

Did you fix your problem since July25 th

JeanB

I dont know why we don't hear more people having this problem. I had this same issue with my 04 and my 06 has done this twice two me now. I can tell you things I tried on my 04 to fix the problem. My 04 had this issue very often (almost every ride) but the 06 has only done it twice in 5k miles. I ride the 06 a little harder. I shift it at or around the 5k rpm range instead of the shift points mentioned in the manual. Here are this things that I replace on the 04.
-new battery
-new plugs
-new upgraded wire recall
-set the idle higher
-new fuel pump
-used different octane rated gas
-new 02 sensor
-installed a pcIII on (06vfr) but it also has the problem from time to time.

also starter valves synch

interesting advice, but i think this is an old wive's tale. the only way to get your vehicle up to an actual running temperature is to ride it - otherwise you'd have to have it idle for 10 minutes.

my bike has stumbled a few times in really cold weather here while stopped at a light with the clutch in (3-5 celcius - just above freezing). it's never stalled though. check your idle speed and make sure it's at the factory recommended setting. if you've had the tank off for maintenance maybe have a look underneath and make sure no lines are pinched. you may also need to change your fuel filter - maybe it's choked with gunk from fuel?

good luck.

[image: View Post]Monk, on Jul 25 2009, 04:32 PM, said:

[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jul 25 2009, 11:09 AM, said:

Bizarre problem that's been happening with increased frequency over the past 1000 miles or so. I'll start up the bike in the morning, idles fine. When I get to the first stop light and shift into neutral, the revs will drop and the bike will stall. It'll start right back up and it won't happen again the rest of the day.

Almost 21k miles, no valve adjustment or starter valve sync done yet.

Gutted exhaust + PC3/Coyze

Ideas?
Do you wait till the temp gets to 95� before you ride off in the morning. I was told to turn the key on but not start till all the instrument lights have stopped flickering, then start and wait till the temp. light comes on (95�).
If you do all that, the next thing I'd check is the idle might be to low. I was reading on here that 1300 was a good idle speed.
If nothing else this post will help keep you up front till someone that knows more can help....

[image: View Post]klinquist, on Jul 25 2009, 10:09 AM, said:

Bizarre problem that's been happening with increased frequency over the past 1000 miles or so. I'll start up the bike in the morning, idles fine. When I get to the first stop light and shift into neutral, the revs will drop and the bike will stall. It'll start right back up and it won't happen again the rest of the day.

Almost 21k miles, no valve adjustment or starter valve sync done yet.

Gutted exhaust + PC3/Coyze

Ideas?
I have an 04 with PC3usb/w Cozys map and have had this happen a few times. At the time I had the idle set at about 1200, I notched up a bit to 1400 and have not had the problem since.

You're not alone. I have an 02 that does this occasionally. It's very irritating. The bike will stall coming off an exit ramp or sometimes when I stop at a light the idle will just drop really really low and the bike doesn't have good throttle response. Then all of a sudden it will come back to life as usual. I keep my idle at about 1500 to avoid this...but it still happens. I have the vfrness and new battery...though I don't think it's electrical.

Just following up, it has only "tried" to stall once since I made this post, and I "caught it" by blipping the throttle - gave it a few revs and the idle only fell to where it should be, not below. If this only happens once every month or two, I'm not going to bother chasing it down independently of other required services.

I did just order a new battery, but that's just preventative maintenance since my OEM battery is now 5 years old.

[image: View Post]Stumpthumper, on Aug 21 2009, 10:27 AM, said:

You're not alone. I have an 02 that does this occasionally. It's very irritating. The bike will stall coming off an exit ramp or sometimes when I stop at a light the idle will just drop really really low and the bike doesn't have good throttle response. Then all of a sudden it will come back to life as usual. I keep my idle at about 1500 to avoid this...but it still happens. I have the vfrness and new battery...though I don't think it's electrical.

What is the RPM range at the first start ( Cold engine ) ?

Do you reach 2000 rpm before engine come warm ?

[image: View Post]jeanb, on Aug 21 2009, 01:05 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Stumpthumper, on Aug 21 2009, 10:27 AM, said:

You're not alone. I have an 02 that does this occasionally. It's very irritating. The bike will stall coming off an exit ramp or sometimes when I stop at a light the idle will just drop really really low and the bike doesn't have good throttle response. Then all of a sudden it will come back to life as usual. I keep my idle at about 1500 to avoid this...but it still happens. I have the vfrness and new battery...though I don't think it's electrical.

What is the RPM range at the first start ( Cold engine ) ?

Do you reach 2000 rpm before engine come warm ?

I'm no expert on VFRs yet, but this really sounds like a lean issue. It will be interesting to see what my clip on wideband O2 says when I get mine.......hopefully soon :)

[image: View Post]sorka, on Aug 23 2009, 11:28 AM, said:

[image: View Post]jeanb, on Aug 21 2009, 01:05 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Stumpthumper, on Aug 21 2009, 10:27 AM, said:

You're not alone. I have an 02 that does this occasionally. It's very irritating. The bike will stall coming off an exit ramp or sometimes when I stop at a light the idle will just drop really really low and the bike doesn't have good throttle response. Then all of a sudden it will come back to life as usual. I keep my idle at about 1500 to avoid this...but it still happens. I have the vfrness and new battery...though I don't think it's electrical.

What is the RPM range at the first start ( Cold engine ) ?

Do you reach 2000 rpm before engine come warm ?

I'm no expert on VFRs yet, but this really sounds like a lean issue. It will be interesting to see what my clip on wideband O2 says when I get mine.......hopefully soon :)
My vfr just came back from the dealer about this problem... my wax unit doesn't work, it was " choked" all the time. Since, the bike is running really better... but for now i can say if
the stalling issue in resolved. i will see soon

[image: View Post]jeanb, on Aug 23 2009, 02:11 PM, said:

My vfr just came back from the dealer about this problem... my wax unit doesn't work, it was " choked" all the time. Since, the bike is running really better... but for now i can say if
the stalling issue in resolved. i will see soon

Interesting... that would make sense... I could have messed something up with the wax unit when I changed the thermostat, I did have to remove it... (and I didn't have this problem before I did the t-stat).

[image: View Post]klinquist, on 24 August 2009 - 07:42 PM, said:

[image: View Post]jeanb, on Aug 23 2009, 02:11 PM, said:

My vfr just came back from the dealer about this problem... my wax unit doesn't work, it was " choked" all the time. Since, the bike is running really better... but for now i can say if
the stalling issue in resolved. i will see soon

Interesting... that would make sense... I could have messed something up with the wax unit when I changed the thermostat, I did have to remove it... (and I didn't have this problem before I did the t-stat).


Jeanb, any update?


I haven't had time to diagnose this (it's only happened 2 or 3 times lately, on days when I leave home and it's colder than usual). The way my commute is... I only have to come to a complete stop within a mile from home maybe one out of every 5 times I ride, so that contributes to me not noticing it often!

I realized today that my bike wasn't idling high when it's cold. I believe the wax unit is supposed to bring the idle to ~2k until the bike warms up, right? This leads me to believe it is the wax unit - I'll probably go ahead and order one.

Hope it works. Keep us posted.

I find it interesting that my Super Hawk used to do this as well...

Hey all new here, interesting my 07 with 3.5K on it is starting the same thing. I've noticed several times that it will rev for some time when cold and then once in a while the revs go down quicker; if combined with a stop, it will stall. Starts right up and then runs well. Gonna have to take notice if this is same issue. RPM is at 1200 set a bit lower by me from dealer (Oct 09).
Great info here and looking foward to learn more on my new ride.

Ride Aware and Smilin'........

it seems like it has to be 60* or colder for my bike to high idle. or if its not that cold out, she has to be sitting for a few days with out starting, but that almost never happens.
does anyone know if there is a certain temperature that the wax unit has to reach in order to operate?
or if it can be adjusted to operate more easily/often?
i try not to do anything to the bike until it registers a temperature and/or comes off of the high idle circuit.
but my bike has stalled a few times when pulling in the clutch to shift into second.
from my experience it seems as though it is related to the wax unit and the bike either not being warmed up yet or not on a proper warm up/high idle circuit...

my wax unit wasn't working, and i adjusted the little nut on the linkage, and presto whammo, i have cold high idle again! saved me changing it:)

as for the stalling, what kind of gas are you using? i used to have stalling issues and i seem to think using regular gas helped the situation.

[image: View Post]dirtbag, on 27 December 2009 - 08:25 PM, said:

my wax unit wasn't working, and i adjusted the little nut on the linkage, and presto whammo, i have cold high idle again! saved me changing it:)

as for the stalling, what kind of gas are you using? i used to have stalling issues and i seem to think using regular gas helped the situation.
Most definitly! Using premium gas will exacerbate this problem, its designed to ignite with a higher activation energy. In other words it takes more energy to ignite it - designed for pinging knocking and high compression engines. Using it on a vfr will give you starting issues and possible idle problems. Its in the manual use regular grade gasoline.

[image: View Post]dirtbag, on 27 December 2009 - 10:25 PM, said:

my wax unit wasn't working, and i adjusted the little nut on the linkage, and presto whammo, i have cold high idle again! saved me changing it:)

as for the stalling, what kind of gas are you using? i used to have stalling issues and i seem to think using regular gas helped the situation.

thats awesome im glad it worked out for you.
can you go a little more in depth about how you went about adjusting the wax unit?

[image: View Post]CandyRedRC46, on 28 December 2009 - 04:42 AM, said:

[image: View Post]dirtbag, on 27 December 2009 - 10:25 PM, said:

my wax unit wasn't working, and i adjusted the little nut on the linkage, and presto whammo, i have cold high idle again! saved me changing it:)

as for the stalling, what kind of gas are you using? i used to have stalling issues and i seem to think using regular gas helped the situation.

thats awesome im glad it worked out for you.
can you go a little more in depth about how you went about adjusting the wax unit?

the wax unit has a plunger that is connected to the link plate. there is a little nut which will adjust the linkage. kinda hard to explain, but once you see it, you will be able to make sense of it. too far out, and it will not move the linkage when it is supposed to. too far in, and it will not fully close the starter linkage.

pg 5-73 of the 2002 sevice manual has an exploded diagram of the system. there is little explanation there though.

p.s. there is a service manual in the download section of this site. damn i love vfrd :)

[image: View Post]dirtbag, on 29 December 2009 - 06:44 PM, said:

[image: View Post]CandyRedRC46, on 28 December 2009 - 04:42 AM, said:

[image: View Post]dirtbag, on 27 December 2009 - 10:25 PM, said:

my wax unit wasn't working, and i adjusted the little nut on the linkage, and presto whammo, i have cold high idle again! saved me changing it:)

as for the stalling, what kind of gas are you using? i used to have stalling issues and i seem to think using regular gas helped the situation.

thats awesome im glad it worked out for you.
can you go a little more in depth about how you went about adjusting the wax unit?

the wax unit has a plunger that is connected to the link plate. there is a little nut which will adjust the linkage. kinda hard to explain, but once you see it, you will be able to make sense of it. too far out, and it will not move the linkage when it is supposed to. too far in, and it will not fully close the starter linkage.

pg 5-73 of the 2002 sevice manual has an exploded diagram of the system. there is little explanation there though.

p.s. there is a service manual in the download section of this site. damn i love vfrd :)

so you adjusted the nut which way? :blink: