Won't Start!

I tried a search, but didn't find anything. 2003 with ~25k miles. I rode it home, parked it over night and the next morning it wouldn't start, so it looks like a failed component... so I'll describe the problem.

I turn on the key, the instruments "self test" but I don't get the familiar "whirring" of the fuel pump/injectors priming... I'm assuming the fuel pump is what makes that noise, but I'm not entirely sure.

Any ideas on where to start troubleshooting this?

[image: View Post]covfrrider, on Sep 8 2009, 12:06 PM, said:

I tried a search, but didn't find anything. 2003 with ~25k miles. I rode it home, parked it over night and the next morning it wouldn't start, so it looks like a failed component... so I'll describe the problem.

Quote

I turn on the key, the instruments "self test" but I don't get the familiar "whirring" of the fuel pump/injectors priming... I'm assuming the fuel pump is what makes that noise, but I'm not entirely sure.
Yes, that's what you hear.
Any ideas on where to start troubleshooting this?

Kill switch, bike in gear with side stand down, tipover switch activated(not likely), crap in starter button or kill switch but fuel pump primer might still have been able to engage.
Start with the small stuff.
Greg :fing02:

1 - Start by checking your "Engine Off" switch. I forget about that tricky beast all the time ;)
2 - Bike's in neutral, right?

Start with the basics, check engine "kill" switch and if bike is in gear.

[image: View Post]Veefer Madness, on Sep 8 2009, 10:14 AM, said:

[image: View Post]covfrrider, on Sep 8 2009, 12:06 PM, said:

I tried a search, but didn't find anything. 2003 with ~25k miles. I rode it home, parked it over night and the next morning it wouldn't start, so it looks like a failed component... so I'll describe the problem.

Quote

I turn on the key, the instruments "self test" but I don't get the familiar "whirring" of the fuel pump/injectors priming... I'm assuming the fuel pump is what makes that noise, but I'm not entirely sure.
Yes, that's what you hear.
Any ideas on where to start troubleshooting this?

Kill switch - check
bike in gear with side stand down - check
tipover switch activated(not likely) - possibly, but if so it's failed
crap in starter button - starter button engages, but the circuit apperas to be open, as nothing happens
kill switch but fuel pump primer might still have been able to engage - ??

Appreciate the "idiot tips" but I'm not a newbie... checked the obvious suspects... I'm looking more for what components to start troubleshooting. Sounds like the fuel pump might be the culprit, I'll have to lift the tank and check voltages.

[image: View Post]covfrrider, on Sep 8 2009, 12:21 PM, said:

Appreciate the "idiot tips" but I'm not a newbie... checked the obvious suspects... I'm looking more for what components to start troubleshooting. Sounds like the fuel pump might be the culprit, I'll have to lift the tank and check voltages.

You might want to check voltages on the "idiot tip" switches as well. Sometimes the switches fail, especially that side stand switch.

Do you get any buzzing sound from behind the dash?
Have you have the Harness recall done?

This is very typical of a ground wire harness failure! Used the google search in our search function and look at "vtec electrical problems" or "Harness Recall" or "Blue ground wire fix" threads.
:cool:

[image: View Post]Baileyrock, on Sep 8 2009, 10:43 AM, said:

Do you get any buzzing sound from behind the dash?
Have you have the Harness recall done?

This is very typical of a ground wire harness failure! Used the google search in our search function and look at "vtec electrical problems" or "Harness Recall" or "Blue ground wire fix" threads.
:cool:

No audible buzzing... wiring harness recall has been completed. New battery, RR and stator in the last 1000 miles. I know the "bible" has a ton of things to check, just was hoping someone had a similar experience and there was a smoking gun to look at.

fuses OK?

[image: View Post]mechdziner714, on Sep 8 2009, 01:02 PM, said:

fuses OK?

Yup... my first thought... I'll tear into it this week and start checking voltages. I sure hope it's not a fuel pump! $400 and change from bikebandit.com!!! AYFKM!

I had the same problem last summer, and ended having to replace my fuel cut-off and engine stop relays, which another VFRD member helped me with. When the problem started, it was once in awhile, then 1/2 the time, then most of the time. Finally, I couldn't get the fuel pump to cycle at all.

We checked everything else with a voltmeter, and it was the relays which were bad. They take awhile to go to, as you have to remove the side and upper fairings, but it's not a really difficult operation - just time consuming.

I believe my issue was caused by a very bad decision to jumpstart the bike from a running car (never again), overloading the bike's electrical system, and it just took a month or two for the relays to die. It could have just been a bad batch of relays from when my VFR was built, but I don't think so.

If you don't find a cause more easily, disassemble the bike as needed and check those relays. Thankfully, fuel pump failures on VFRs are rare, so I'm guessing it isn't the pump.

BTW, if it is the relays, check ebay for new replacements. Honda part # is 38501-GN2-014, and the manufacturer of the replacements I bought is Mitsuba, part # RC-2208. They weren't expensive, but I did have to tear off a small metal clip that was attached to them (needed for some other bike). If this is your issue my advice is to replace both relays, as I only replaced one since the other seemed fine. Then the other one went bad, too, so I had to go back and do it all over again. :(

[image: View Post]covfrrider, on Sep 8 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

I sure hope it's not a fuel pump! $400 and change from bikebandit.com!!! AYFKM!

The fact that you said 1) no priming sound from pump, and 2) engine doesn't turn over when you press the starter button sounds like what happens when the kill switch is in the "off" position. So It sounds electrical (switch or fuse) not mechanical (fuel pump).

[image: View Post]TimC, on Sep 8 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

I had the same problem last summer, and ended having to replace my fuel cut-off and engine stop relays, which another VFRD member helped me with. When the problem started, it was once in awhile, then 1/2 the time, then most of the time. Finally, I couldn't get the fuel pump to cycle at all.

We checked everything else with a voltmeter, and it was the relays which were bad. They take awhile to go to, as you have to remove the side and upper fairings, but it's not a really difficult operation - just time consuming.

I believe my issue was caused by a very bad decision to jumpstart the bike from a running car (never again), overloading the bike's electrical system, and it just took a month or two for the relays to die. It could have just been a bad batch of relays from when my VFR was built, but I don't think so.

If you don't find a cause more easily, disassemble the bike as needed and check those relays. Thankfully, fuel pump failures on VFRs are rare, so I'm guessing it isn't the pump.

BTW, if it is the relays, check ebay for new replacements. Honda part # is 38501-GN2-014, and the manufacturer of the replacements I bought is Mitsuba, part # RC-2208. They weren't expensive, but I did have to tear off a small metal clip that was attached to them (needed for some other bike). If this is your issue my advice is to replace both relays, as I only replaced one since the other seemed fine. Then the other one went bad, too, so I had to go back and do it all over again. :(

This is what I was hoping to hear... given my electrical issues (battery, rr and stator) it's quite possible these are the culprits. I did have to jump the bike a couple times to get it to a place to be worked on, so that may have contributed to the problem.

I'll likely start there.

My '04 has a touchy kill switch. On occasion I have to rock it back and forth a few times to get it to make contact.

Just bought 3 relays off of E-bay for $28 including shipping... figure this is a likely culprit. I'll check back when the problem is solved.

[image: View Post]Knute, on Sep 8 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

My '04 has a touchy kill switch. On occasion I have to rock it back and forth a few times to get it to make contact.
When Flip and I were diagnosing my bike's issue, we disassembled the run/stop (kill) switch. That wasn't the problem, but while we had it apart Flip cleaned the contact points.

[image: View Post]TimC, on Sep 8 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Knute, on Sep 8 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

My '04 has a touchy kill switch. On occasion I have to rock it back and forth a few times to get it to make contact.
When Flip and I were diagnosing my bike's issue, we disassembled the run/stop (kill) switch. That wasn't the problem, but while we had it apart Flip cleaned the contact points.
Once my riding season is over :( I plan on doing just that. It's only done it to me twice and not for a little while now, but a good cleaning is where I was figuring to start.

This has happened to me on both my '03 VTEC and my '98 5th gen... more than once... every time it has been due to dirt/grease/bellybutton fluff built up inside the killswitch housing... open it up (one or two little screws) and give it a good blast out with contact cleaner... and HEY PRESTO!!

Looks like a kill switch problem after all. The bike is in my girlfriends garage, last night I had her flip the key switch and listen for a click near the headlights. Upon confirming she heard one, I was reasonable convinced it may not be a relay after all. I then had her cycle the engine kill switch rapidly a dozen or so time, then turn the key on again, the fuel pump primed the injectors and she turned right over. This is my 6th VFR (1st 6th gen) and this is the first time I've seen anything like this. I'll open it up when I get a chance, clean it and apply a thin film of dialectic grease to the contacts.

[image: View Post]covfrrider, on Sep 9 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

Looks like a kill switch problem after all. The bike is in my girlfriends garage, last night I had her flip the key switch and listen for a click near the headlights. Upon confirming she heard one, I was reasonable convinced it may not be a relay after all. I then had her cycle the engine kill switch rapidly a dozen or so time, then turn the key on again, the fuel pump primed the injectors and she turned right over. This is my 6th VFR (1st 6th gen) and this is the first time I've seen anything like this. I'll open it up when I get a chance, clean it and apply a thin film of dialectic grease to the contacts.
I hope that's it, as it's much easier than replacing the relays.

My relay issue was intermittent at first. They kept working correctly most of the time, then less and less as the days went by. If you don't experience the problem again after cleaning the kill switch contacts, great. If it happens again, however, I'd check the relays.

[image: View Post]covfrrider, on Sep 9 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

Looks like a kill switch problem after all. The bike is in my girlfriends garage, last night I had her flip the key switch and listen for a click near the headlights. Upon confirming she heard one, I was reasonable convinced it may not be a relay after all. I then had her cycle the engine kill switch rapidly a dozen or so time, then turn the key on again, the fuel pump primed the injectors and she turned right over. This is my 6th VFR (1st 6th gen) and this is the first time I've seen anything like this. I'll open it up when I get a chance, clean it and apply a thin film of dialectic grease to the contacts.

That's great to hear. I did think it was odd that it just all of a sudden quit when it was fine the last time you ran it.
Oh, and the pump prime does not cycle when the kill switch is engaged, which I originally said I wasn't sure of.

Quote

Kill switch, bike in gear with side stand down, tipover switch activated(not likely), crap in starter button or kill switch but fuel pump primer might still have been able to engage.
Start with the small stuff.
Greg
BTW, I posted first about the kill switch........... what did I win? :schla15: :goofy:
Greg :fing02: