Has anyone tried to update their 2002 thru 2005 VFR with an ECU from a 2006 or newer? I love my '05 but I am curious to try the lower VTECH transition point. I scored an '06 ECU off of ebay for $135. I realize that I will probably need to update the map on my PCIII as well.
I was just wondering if it is a simple "Plug-n-play" upgrade or are there other mods that need to be done to get the lower transition point?
[image: View Post]vfr_steve, on Oct 1 2009, 04:42 AM, said:
I have heard it's a BIG job... it will be interesting to hear how you get on as I would also be intrigued...
Hopefully others will chime in with some advice soon.
I've never thought about it, but I can only think of a few reasons why it would not be plug and play. I know the wiring harness is different, but don't know the exact differences and if this would cause problems or not. I guess there's only one way to find out, try it and let us know how it goes!
The VTEC transition is a electronically controlled, a solenoid opens oil flow to open the valves. So that wouldn't be a problem, and yes, you would most definitely need a new PCIII map.
I believe you'll need the entire main wiring harness from an 06+ bike to make that work, unless you are both an electrical engineer and extremely patient... nevermind the plugs being different.
i know you don't want to hear this (considering you've already bought the ECU) but things like this are seldom a direct and simple swap. however, if you think you can make it happen, let us know how it goes.
Sounds like a challenge. Well, I'm up for it! I have the wiring harness from the '06 as well. So we'll see what there is to the different connector requirement.
I'll keep you all posted on how far I get. Like I said, I am not so offended by the 7000 RPM transition on my '05 - especially with the PCIII map that I have.
I saw the opportunity to switch to the lower transition point without buying a new bike and decided to see if it would work.
I should know more next week. Bummer! I just looked outside and it is snowing :-(
[image: View Post]brett336, on Oct 3 2009, 03:19 PM, said:
Hmm,
Sounds like a challenge. Well, I'm up for it! I have the wiring harness from the '06 as well. So we'll see what there is to the different connector requirement.
I'll keep you all posted on how far I get. Like I said, I am not so offended by the 7000 RPM transition on my '05 - especially with the PCIII map that I have.
I saw the opportunity to switch to the lower transition point without buying a new bike and decided to see if it would work.
I should know more next week. Bummer! I just looked outside and it is snowing :-(
Maybe I'll know more next year...
BA
Look on the bright side, if it doesn't work right away, at least you aren't missing those last few prime riding days with your bike in the shop!
Having the 2006 harness should make it much easier, let us know how it goes.
This reminds me of when I had my Honda VT1100C1. The VT1100C1 and VT1100C2 shared the same motor and frame. Some parts were interchangeable between the two bikes and some weren't (even if they were the same year.) When I found out the VT1100C2 made three more horses, I immediately looked into why and found out it had to do with the way its ignition timing was set at the factory. I didn't want to spend $300 on an aftermarket ignition module so I began looking for people who were parting out their VT1100C2 hoping I could get my hands on their stock ignition module. I never found one but, it turns out, wouldn't have mattered if I did. I spoke with several VT1100C1 and VT1100C2 gurus who explained to me why it couldn't be done. I forget what I was told, but had I installed the VT1100C2's module (which, surprisingly, had connectors that would have made it a direct fit), it would have fried the module. The lesson I learned in all this wasn't so much that parts aren't always interchangeable on bikes that for all practical purposes are identical, but that if you want a faster bike, just get another one. Without spending an extraordinary amount of money, there's only so much you can do to get more power. I already had rejetted carbs, an aftermarket air filter, and a Vance & Hines Pro-Pipe. Would you believe I was looking into getting radical cams, head work, and 11:1 pistons? I'm glad I didn't.
If you're gonna toy around with the VTEC, the ECU is definitely the place to start. I once heard about someone that eliminated it altogether (i.e. the motor ran on 16 valves all the time), but he never could get it to run right.
I'm surprised nobody ever came out with an aftermarket gizmo for it (especially somebody liked Ivan at Ivan's Performance Products.) I won't go into details about it, but one of the things he developed was something for the ZX-14 that tricked the ECU into thinking the motorcycle was always in 6th gear (it had to do with eliminating a timing retardation feature that Kawasaki used in the first five gears.) I realize VTEC has nothing to do with ignition timing, but tricking the ECU into thinking the RPM's are always at or above the VTEC's transition point sounds like a good place to start.
I figured that my habitual desire to tweak on stuff will put my engineering background to work. I'll let you guys know what I come up with as I evaluate the pin-out differences between the two ECUs.
I have done a lot of product development with Japan and my experience has been that they usually make very simple changes so that parts don't retro-fit and eat into new sales (Like swapping ground and power on connectors and such).
We'll see - and it looks like I have time. Got 6 inches of snow last night :-(
You might not need to replace the entire wiring harness, depending on what the differences are.
Since the plugs are different, as long as there are no total # of wiring differences, and the only dif is physical dif of plugs and the pinout to the ECU, you MAY be able to cut/splice the NEW ECU plug to your OLD wiring harness, perhaps all the wire colours for the different ECU channels are the same from both bikes?
Print out the two schematics side my side and compare. If you can make quality solder joints and heatshrink them, you should be alright, only drawback would be the added bulk of the connections making the bundle larger in diameter.
Depending on the connector design, I might be able to just unlock and slide the pins out of the connector and insert in the new one. Swapping out the entire wiring harness looks like a hardcore PITA! Now all I need is a schematic for an '06.
Let's pretend I had all the tools needed, and then I had no fear of horking my bike up, at that point I would then like to spend all winter and really take my time and swap from the stock ECU on my '04 to a Microsquirt. I haven't looked at what sorts of pickups the MicroS likes to deal with for RPM input or what all it would take to make it happily operate the ignition side of a VTEC VFR, and I would probably have to construct some sort of driver circuit to modulate the VTEC solenoid properly, but this seems like an all together better way to go, but also much more difficult. Have you looked into this as a possible path instead of the later factory ECU?
I have thought about it - and in my younger days, I probably would have taken a route like that. But these days I just have so many draws on my time - career, kids and a whole lot of other things that I like to do. I just don't have the time to do all the charecterization required to optimize a system like that. Plus, I think it would have me on a never ending tweak fest if I had that kind of access to that many parameters. Quite frankly, being able to go in a tweak the indevidual cells of the fuel map on my PCIII is enough for me!
By-the-way, does anyone have the wiring schematic for an '06 from the shop manual that they can scan and send me. That would help me a lot at this point.
It does look like a big job. I think I would be best off to change out the entire harness. First, I was looking at doing a splice between the two connectors but this actually looks like it would be more time and work than just changing out the entire harness. The only concern there is that I am wondering if I am going to find differences in other connectors as I move through the swap.
Are you aware that VTEC engines don't reach their peak horsepower output until almost 11,000 RPM's? Sure, the curve really begins its upward ascent when VTEC engages, but is lowering the transition point by a mere 600 RPM's really worth all the trouble? I'm not trying to burst your bubble, however, I'm not sure if you're aware of this.
[image: View Post]EmeraldVFR, on Oct 10 2009, 08:07 PM, said:
Are you aware that VTEC engines don't reach their peak horsepower output until almost 11,000 RPM's? Sure, the curve really begins its upward ascent when VTEC engages, but is lowering the transition point by a mere 600 RPM's really worth all the trouble? I'm not trying to burst your bubble, however, I'm not sure if you're aware of this.
Yeh the rpm transition not that different, only thing 05 drops in and out of vtech at 6800 and 06 goes in a 6400 but doesnt drop out until like 6100.
I dont believe the dip is constant but more luck of the draw in a specific condition, its a mechanical transition phase, Harsh you probably had a big dip, smooth not much.
I did have a few times when my 06 was new hit so hard it hurt my hands.
This is from my -06 before/after installing PC III and devil pipes and kn filter and its still a dip in charts but way better in middle rpm atleast thats the feel when riding it :)
End of thread · 21 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 12 Apr 2010