Engine Switched Off

Bike Background - 04 model with 97,000km. Just had a major service last week. Had the whole loom and the RR replaced under the recall about 25,000km ago. Otherwise trouble free.

Riding home the other day on a hot day (spring has started here) and ambient was about 37C. Spent about 20mins at 80km/h and then sat at light for about 1-2 mins before turning onto an on ramp. Got away from the lights and pulled the clutch for second. Engine stopped. Coasted to the side and it wouldn't start. Turned it off and back on and started up. Got onto the freeway and a minute or so later went for fourth or fifth only to have the same thing happen. Same restart procedure. No problems for about 20mins until almost home. Now in city roads (but not busy) and went for third to have it die again.

The only thing I could pick up was that the coolant level in the bottle was on the low marker. However at no time did the bike register more than about 106 on the ride home and the fan certainly kept that under control.

Rode into work the next day without any problem. Headed for the bike shop at lunch time (a little cooler that day, maybe 25C) and they had a look about. Firstly they decided the idle was too low. They'd set it about 1100, so we upped it to the more normal 1200ish. They then warmed it up and when it was already hot, took it for a ride. Came back without any problems and but tech reckoned it was warmer than it should be. I wasn't too sure as it was already warm and he rode in the town (stop start type) and I'm sure you all agree that the VFR always heats up in those conditions (or does it?). The tech wasn;t clear if he meant hot for a VFR or hot for a Honda?

They had a quick look about the bike, looking to see if they had crimped a fuel line or anything out of the ordinary in the service. They considered thngs like bad fuel, dirty fuel filter even a bit of vapourisation. They also wanted to let it cool down and look over the cooling system. Unfortunately I wasn't able to leave the bike with them that day and have it booked in for next week to let them look at. It will only be ridden to them between yesterday and next week so not too worried there.

And that's when the next (or the same) problem appeared. When I went to take it back the tech suggested that it wasn't going to start. It did after a long starter press. He was actually surprised and we turned it off to move it. Got all ready and it wouldn't start. A few second rest, turned it back on and she did start.

Made it home without the engine stop manifesting. Though I admit for the first 10 minutes it did seem to be heating up inordinately quickly and I was considering turning around and taking the train home. It settled soon after to what I thought was more normal.

To me, I think I might have two problems. Electrical (RR again) affecting the starting (and causing the shutdowns??) and cooling.

Help???

- is the 6th gen electrical gremlins finally rearing its ugly head?
- I read here though about the thermostat problems but that seems to make it read cooler than normal.
- RR gone?
- cooling system on the way out??

Thanks.

Uuf... that's a tough one... stalling between gears is no THE most common problem in the case of the VFR... I have seen the odd case but haven't seen any other convincing solution than setting the idle a little higher... this should be done once the engine is warm.

Regarding the engine getting hotter and then "settling down", this would seem to me to be a very subjective appraisal... if it's getting hotter than it should you would see the results in the temp read-out... unless of course your sensors are bad (this could affect the fuel-air mix). Although I believe the engine temp sensor for the ECU to adjust the mixture and the sensor for the display read-out are two different sensors, not sure though.

In case it is the electrical gremlins (end result is also engine cutting out but not between gears necessarily).... you should check out the big yellow connector you will find behind the instrument display panel... you'll have to take the nose-cone fairing off for that... it often gets corroded... if so replace it or use some other method of connecting the wires up (you can just solder the whole lot together in a bundle, yes, all of them together in a big fat bundle, crude, but it works).

Then there's plenty of other advice here on VFRD on where to look and bypass connectors and reinforce earthing points...

I'm not so sure it's electrical... and your cooling system well... maybe it's not the cooling system per se but moreso the sensors...

That's my humble and amateur take on it...

Best of luck and do let us know how it all pans out...

Altho you said the RR has just been replaced, the syptoms you suggest are excactly the same as a faulty RR....Are you sure its the new RR on bike and not the old?
Another possability might have something to do with the ignition/posative red wire that runs the bike. From battery to ignition key switch. I have had the posative line to the key switch go before(the solder on switch went) with similar problems :lurk:

Maybe something simple like a loose battery connection? Make sure the cables are tightly bolted to the battery terminals.

Another suggestion would be to get yourself a cheap DVM (digital voltmeter) at an auto store and carry it with yout to immediately check your battery voltage next time the problem occurs. It should be up in the mid 13 volt range.

Did you have the issue before doing the harness recall?

as if that wouldnt p o you off, taking a bike in and now it has issues. I'm not buying the RR ISSUe, if you had no problem before taking the bike in for recall. The hosing from the tank could defintely cause the stalling and since you made it home, maybe that was it.

I would go through all the connections with wd40 and test for solid mechanical connection with meter and use protective like wd40.

I do this with all my bikes, its not a honda thing. Even after I recently had a stator fail and replaced under warrnty
(64,000 mile), I went back through everything electrical connection to recheck and reprep (a few hours work). Ensuring the new stator yellow wire plug had perfect continuity through the connection and every other also.

I'm on original wiring and compltely stock grounds, no blue wire fix as of yet, nor any over heat of red wire leading to battery from RR. All my wiring is clean and in good shape

IMO, once corrsion in a connector begins its hard to ever get it right , prevent that and its an easier life down the road.

The "new" RR is about a year+ old now. But I'm sure Honda would say that the recall had fixed what was breaking them... which doesn't match with their RR history.

Will get a multimeter... ought to have one anyway and probe where I can.

keep the ideas coming if you have them :)

6th gens have very low RR failure, it much more an issue on older models. You could probably count less than 5 failed on this entire board over the last 10 years, even the stators are rare to fail.

Some bike brands stators fail well below 50,000 mile, I went 64,000 on vfr.

The wiring fix corrected some grounding issues on erlier 6th gen, but some bikes may have already sustained some damage, wiring and connector issues are the number 1 threat.

Well the shop had it all day today.

- small air pocket in cooling system - fixed
- no charging problems
- low idle setting (fixed the other day)
- battery only pushing out 11V or 10V under load - waiting for new one (they'd sold a bunch last week)

That seems to fit the symptoms from what's been said here and my own understanding of the mysteries that happen inside the fairings. I guess I'll find out as we're headed for 41C later in the week, conditions similar to the other day. Thanks all.

[image: View Post]Frogfoot, on 17 November 2009 - 06:10 PM, said:

Well the shop had it all day today.

- small air pocket in cooling system - fixed
- no charging problems
- low idle setting (fixed the other day)
- battery only pushing out 11V or 10V under load - waiting for new one (they'd sold a bunch last week)

That seems to fit the symptoms from what's been said here and my own understanding of the mysteries that happen inside the fairings. I guess I'll find out as we're headed for 41C later in the week, conditions similar to the other day. Thanks all.

hmm doesn't sound like it's been fixed tbh, just take care on your 1st couple of runs, it's a bad earth and melting wires in the block connector you should be checking

when it dies and you pull to the side, will it turn over immediately and not fire, or not turn over?

if it won't turn over, it sounds like maybe a loose connection on something like the kickstand sensor.

either way, the loose terminal thought/shorted wire/loose grnd seems likely.

Gee, way to make me relaxed!!! However, almost identical conditions and no problems.

I will still follow up the e;electrical investigation.