New chain & sprocket

Ok, so I ordered a new chain and sprocket kit for my '04 VFR. Have the shop manual and did a little reading up on preforming the task. Looks doable for me and my average skill set. I'd sure appreciate input from those of greater knowledge in the matter as to what pitfalls to watch out for? I think my main concern involves the clutch slave, manual says to drain the fluid before removal, are there any short cuts around this? I can certainly do it, but was just wondering how deep into this I need to go? Any other part I should look to replace while doing this?

DON'T remove the slave, simply remove the countershaft cover and swing the whole enchilada out of the way.

Easiest way to remove the old chain is to grind the 2 rivet heads off of one of the links (position grinder to fling grit away from bike/cover rear of bike), then roll the ground link over the rear sprocket and tap the link plate off by sticking a flathead screwdriver down into the link, then tap with a hammer. Pops right off.

DO loosen the front sprocket before removing the chain... and taking the extra half hour - hour of time to clean while the old stuff is off will make you feel better when you're done!

I did this last winter, if I remember right I tried to simply move it aside and the cylinder popped out and drained the fluid. if you could get it out and maybe wrap it in tape or something to hold it in you might be able to avoid it. I didn't, but I think it would have worked had I known and prepared. I guess I was too focused on the -1/+2 end result.

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 01 September 2010 - 07:59 AM, said:

DON'T remove the slave, simply remove the countershaft cover and swing the whole enchilada out of the way.

Easiest way to remove the old chain is to grind the 2 rivet heads off of one of the links (position grinder to fling grit away from bike/cover rear of bike), then roll the ground link over the rear sprocket and tap the link plate off by sticking a flathead screwdriver down into the link, then tap with a hammer. Pops right off.

DO loosen the front sprocket before removing the chain... and taking the extra half hour - hour of time to clean while the old stuff is off will make you feel better when you're done!

Thanks for the tips. I *think* I'm good with most of what needs to be done, just this clutch slave.... well would just like to try and get this right the first time. In looking at the shop manual it looks like if I remove 4 of the 5 bolts and leave the 1 lower rear bolt on the slave, the drive sprocket cover should come off with the "1" bolt holding the slave in place, does this sound right?

[image: View Post]Knute, on 01 September 2010 - 08:52 AM, said:

Thanks for the tips. I *think* I'm good with most of what needs to be done, just this clutch slave.... well would just like to try and get this right the first time. In looking at the shop manual it looks like if I remove 4 of the 5 bolts and leave the 1 lower rear bolt on the slave, the drive sprocket cover should come off with the "1" bolt holding the slave in place, does this sound right?


I don't remember which one is the short one, but one of the 3 bolts that hold the slave in place is shorter than the other 2(it bolts to the cover only, not into the cover and the case). Take out one bolt at a time, so that you have at least one holding the slave in place at all times, and thereby leaving yourself w/ just the short one holding the slave in.

[image: View Post]Knute, on 01 September 2010 - 08:52 AM, said:

[image: View Post]SEBSPEED, on 01 September 2010 - 07:59 AM, said:

DON'T remove the slave, simply remove the countershaft cover and swing the whole enchilada out of the way.

Easiest way to remove the old chain is to grind the 2 rivet heads off of one of the links (position grinder to fling grit away from bike/cover rear of bike), then roll the ground link over the rear sprocket and tap the link plate off by sticking a flathead screwdriver down into the link, then tap with a hammer. Pops right off.

DO loosen the front sprocket before removing the chain... and taking the extra half hour - hour of time to clean while the old stuff is off will make you feel better when you're done!

Thanks for the tips. I *think* I'm good with most of what needs to be done, just this clutch slave.... well would just like to try and get this right the first time. In looking at the shop manual it looks like if I remove 4 of the 5 bolts and leave the 1 lower rear bolt on the slave, the drive sprocket cover should come off with the "1" bolt holding the slave in place, does this sound right?


My advice would be to remove the clutch slave from the cover, pop a rubber band on it to stop the piston coming out (it shouldn't, but ya never know)... and don't squeeze the clutch lever.
Take off the speed sensor also.

This allows you to remove the cover separate and aids in cleaning it.

Things to note:
Keep the 3 bolts for the clutch slave separate, and remember the order for the sprocket cover bolts. They are different lengths.
When reinstalling the speed sensor, ensure it fits/sits/lines up over the counter sprocket bolt.
There is also a spacer behind the sprocket cover with dowel pins, look for these.

Spacer
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1158602598/gallery_6925_2153_30683.jpg

Note the clutch pushrod (middle left) dab a little grease on its exposed tip too.

I did this myself last year. I eneded up with the clutch slave removed. If you remove the clutch slave, you may find the piston has pushed out a little while it was separated. When reassembling, I gently installed the clutch slave in place, and then compressed it back in by gently tightening the bolts a little at a time, until the slave was again seated.

You will want to have a good quality chain tool in order to press on the master link and to peen the rivets. A set of digital calipers is also good to have in order to measure the peen. You don't want to over do it and crack the end of the rivet. I believe on most chains the head of the rivet should be peened to between 5.5 and 5.8 millimeters.

While you are at it, pull out the clutch rod and apply a little lithium grease.

I did the chain and sprockets a couple months ago. I did remove the slave cylinder, the "pin/rod" did creep out. I pushed it back in and bled the clutch, Super easy. Next time I will use a Zip tie to hold the "pin/rod" in place, but, I probably will still bleed the clutch. Taking the cover assembly completely apart did make the cleaning much easier. All in all it was a very simple job.

[image: View Post]PACIFICMAN, on 01 September 2010 - 11:13 AM, said:

I did the chain and sprockets a couple months ago. I did remove the slave cylinder, the "pin/rod" did creep out. I pushed it back in and bled the clutch, Super easy. Next time I will use a Zip tie to hold the "pin/rod" in place, but, I probably will still bleed the clutch. Taking the cover assembly completely apart did make the cleaning much easier. All in all it was a very simple job.

Now that's what I like to hear http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif

Knute, what chain/sprocket set did you order? OEM? Or this one...

http://www.sprocketc...800f-02-09.html

Mine's a 5th gen. I just changed out the chain and sprockets. It was easy. The hardest part was cleaning everything.

• Put all the hardware you remove in a magnetic bowl so you won't have to wonder where it all went when it's time for reassembly.
• I didn't drain it before removing the clutch slave. Just don't touch the clutch lever until you re-install it. Try not to tear the gasket. Mine tore, so I used some gasket maker.
• Don't over tighten the rear sprocket bolts. For some reason, I had my torque wrench set wrong on the first one and stripped the threads on one of them. I'm so ashamed.
• Clean out the 20 or so pounds of compacted goop while you have everything apart. I even removed the chain guard and cleaned it out. I have no idea how the chain even moved through there, it was so full of gunk and spooge. I think I gained the equivalent of 10 HP.
• If you have a star shift kit you haven't yet installed, do it now while the bike is apart. I didn't remember I had one until after I was finished and had everything buttoned back up. Now I have to tear it down again. I think Mr. Al Zheimer may have been messing with me.

Have fun!

[image: View Post]2thdr, on 01 September 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:

Knute, what chain/sprocket set did you order? OEM? Or this one...

http://www.sprocketc...800f-02-09.html

That's the one.

[image: View Post]Knute, on 01 September 2010 - 01:42 PM, said:

[image: View Post]2thdr, on 01 September 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:

Knute, what chain/sprocket set did you order? OEM? Or this one...

http://www.sprocketc...800f-02-09.html

That's the one.


Cool, thanks...maybe a wintertime project for me. I've got about 36k miles and recently tightened the chain, but rear sprocket teeth still look good, so I guess it's ride it and see how soon it needs adjustment again?

[image: View Post]StuntManDan, on 01 September 2010 - 08:06 AM, said:

I did this last winter, if I remember right I tried to simply move it aside and the cylinder popped out and drained the fluid. if you could get it out and maybe wrap it in tape or something to hold it in you might be able to avoid it. I didn't, but I think it would have worked had I known and prepared. I guess I was too focused on the -1/+2 end result.

Your misfortunes are what I hope to avoid. Thanks for sharing.

Well... I got the chain and sprocket set in the mail today, along with a Motion Pro chain breaker/riveting tool. So... I figure well what the heck... lets just get this show on the road. Started at 3pm, finished at 6pm. Everything went nice and smooth, it all came apart without a hitch, as you can tell I was kind of sweating the clutch slave thing, but that really was a piece of cake. Leaving the one lower rear bolt in and just swinging the whole thing out of the way really was the ticket. It really wasn't very messy in the counter shaft area, so it didn't take long to clean up. Installation/reassembly went off without a hitch as well. Anyway just want to say thank you to you guys for posting up some very useful tips. THANKS again http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif

:beer:

Enjoy your new hardware!

A relevant question (will likely help Knute as well):

I just got a new chain installed by a dealer. The chain freeplay is only 3/4 inch (against 1 & 1/4 spec). The dealer claims that is normal for a new chain and that the chain will loosen up itself soon. How true is this ? It is safe to leave it that way ?

[image: View Post]supersprint, on 07 September 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

A relevant question (will likely help Knute as well):

I just got a new chain installed by a dealer. The chain freeplay is only 3/4 inch (against 1 & 1/4 spec). The dealer claims that is normal for a new chain and that the chain will loosen up itself soon. How true is this ? It is safe to leave it that way ?



My thoughts are yeah it will loosen up specially if you hit a good bump and it pulls it hard since there is not enough slack. I would rather have it too loose then too tight.

It will stretch as it settles in no reason to speed that process up by having it too tight to start with.

I have tried over the weekend and not able to lose the front sprocket bolt. Do I need a special wrench for it?

Thanks.

[image: View Post]vfrtk11, on 10 September 2010 - 04:53 PM, said:

I have tried over the weekend and not able to lose the front sprocket bolt. Do I need a special wrench for it?

Thanks.

No special wrench. Shift it into 6th gear, if you can't do it yourself, have someone apply the rear brake, with any luck you'll be able to get it off. I wouldn't think it'd be on to terribly tight as the torque value on that bolt is only 38 ft/lb.

[image: View Post]supersprint, on 07 September 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

A relevant question (will likely help Knute as well):

I just got a new chain installed by a dealer. The chain freeplay is only 3/4 inch (against 1 & 1/4 spec). The dealer claims that is normal for a new chain and that the chain will loosen up itself soon. How true is this ? It is safe to leave it that way ?



My DID VM1 has 7,000 mile and has not been adjusted yet since install, , the chain before that was a DID VM pro, that thing stretched alot in the first 5,000 mile. Really these 2 chains are indentical, other than one has orings and the other xrings.

I'm a little shocked, the xring must be building less heat, which aides the grease life ,, That oring chain the grease was done by about 7,000 mile and the chain would be on fire 20 minutes after you'd stopped riding. Once I cut the orings out of all the kinking links it ran super cool.

[image: View Post]supersprint, on 07 September 2010 - 08:19 PM, said:

A relevant question (will likely help Knute as well):

I just got a new chain installed by a dealer. The chain freeplay is only 3/4 inch (against 1 & 1/4 spec). The dealer claims that is normal for a new chain and that the chain will loosen up itself soon. How true is this ? It is safe to leave it that way ?


Not good. Dealer is trying to avoid your follow-up visit that you won't want to pay for. Learn how to adjust the chain yourself and put it to spec, check it periodically. Running it too tight can ruin your countershaft bearing (very expensive to replace) and ruin the new chain. Every bump moves the swingarm through an arc. The chain should be loose enough to have at least a little slack when the arc places the rear sprocket at its furthest point from the countershaft sprocket. 3/4" may, or may not, do that. If not, trouble is down the road.

Take it back, make them set it to spec, make sure you have the tool, and keep an eye on it. Chains do need adjustment once they break in (they don't stretch - they wear, which creates extra length), so that's unavoidable with a new chain. What's avoidable is having to replace parts because of a bad dealer.

Question: Is it recommended to replace the sprockets when a new chain is required? I have 58K KMS and need a chain. If sprockets look ok should I just get them anyway and make it all new?

Thanks,
J

[image: View Post]JayJay, on 20 September 2010 - 03:26 PM, said:

Question: Is it recommended to replace the sprockets when a new chain is required? I have 58K KMS and need a chain. If sprockets look ok should I just get them anyway and make it all new?

Thanks,
J


Always... (unless the sprockets are virtually new and have not suffered any wear... and for some reason, like a factory defect, you have to change the chain prematurely... I'm talking a couple of weeks).

The chain and sprockets wear in together... adapting to each other in form/shape... placing a new chain on worn sprockets will produce premature wear of the new chain... you may then, in next to no time, have to replace the chain (again) and the sprockets... so you pay for two chains and the sprockets in the end.

I replaced both my chain and sprockets recently. I compared my old sprockets (40K miles) to the new ones, placing one on top of the other, and no matter how close I looked I could not tell the difference. The old ones looked as good as the new ones. Is the wear so subtle that it can't be seen with the naked eye, or could it be that I didn't need to change the sprockets (which I did since I had them)?

I have a new DID chain (flashy gold, of course) and OEM sprokets on order so I'm sure I can contribute to this educational and dramatic thread in about a week or two...... :fing02:
:biggrin:

[image: View Post]Bent, on 01 October 2010 - 06:12 PM, said:

I have a new DID chain (flashy gold, of course) and OEM sprokets on order so I'm sure I can contribute to this educational and dramatic thread in about a week or two...... :fing02:
:biggrin:


Please do keep us posted - i'm also in the market to replace old chain/sprocket. Where did you order yours? Links please. Thanks.

[image: View Post]pastorgumby, on 04 October 2010 - 09:42 AM, said:

[image: View Post]Bent, on 01 October 2010 - 06:12 PM, said:

I have a new DID chain (flashy gold, of course) and OEM sprokets on order so I'm sure I can contribute to this educational and dramatic thread in about a week or two...... :fing02:
:biggrin:


Please do keep us posted - i'm also in the market to replace old chain/sprocket. Where did you order yours? Links please. Thanks.


Chain from Sprocket Center. Sprockets from Mason City Honda. Mention to the Honda dealer that you are a member of VFRD for discount.

Yee HI! Bent

[image: View Post]spud786, on 04 October 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

Yee HI! Bent


Apparently, you're riding over 100 and texting again...... :laughing6-hehe: :blink:

[image: View Post]Knute, on 04 September 2010 - 08:17 PM, said:

Well... I got the chain and sprocket set in the mail today, along with a Motion Pro chain breaker/riveting tool. So... I figure well what the heck... lets just get this show on the road. Started at 3pm, finished at 6pm. Everything went nice and smooth, it all came apart without a hitch, as you can tell I was kind of sweating the clutch slave thing, but that really was a piece of cake. Leaving the one lower rear bolt in and just swinging the whole thing out of the way really was the ticket. It really wasn't very messy in the counter shaft area, so it didn't take long to clean up. Installation/reassembly went off without a hitch as well. Anyway just want to say thank you to you guys for posting up some very useful tips. THANKS again http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif


So would you say you need both the breaker tool and the riveting tool? The "grind the head off the pins in the old chain" method and a proper length new chain make the breaker tool unnecessary, correct?

[image: View Post]skymon, on 06 October 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Knute, on 04 September 2010 - 08:17 PM, said:

Well... I got the chain and sprocket set in the mail today, along with a Motion Pro chain breaker/riveting tool. So... I figure well what the heck... lets just get this show on the road. Started at 3pm, finished at 6pm. Everything went nice and smooth, it all came apart without a hitch, as you can tell I was kind of sweating the clutch slave thing, but that really was a piece of cake. Leaving the one lower rear bolt in and just swinging the whole thing out of the way really was the ticket. It really wasn't very messy in the counter shaft area, so it didn't take long to clean up. Installation/reassembly went off without a hitch as well. Anyway just want to say thank you to you guys for posting up some very useful tips. THANKS again http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif


So would you say you need both the breaker tool and the riveting tool? The "grind the head off the pins in the old chain" method and a proper length new chain make the breaker tool unnecessary, correct?

Only needed the riveting tool actually (didn't know that at the time), chain was pre cut to proper length. Correct, grind the heads off the pins in the old chain and pry the link out.

[image: View Post]skymon, on 06 October 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Knute, on 04 September 2010 - 08:17 PM, said:

Well... I got the chain and sprocket set in the mail today, along with a Motion Pro chain breaker/riveting tool. So... I figure well what the heck... lets just get this show on the road. Started at 3pm, finished at 6pm. Everything went nice and smooth, it all came apart without a hitch, as you can tell I was kind of sweating the clutch slave thing, but that really was a piece of cake. Leaving the one lower rear bolt in and just swinging the whole thing out of the way really was the ticket. It really wasn't very messy in the counter shaft area, so it didn't take long to clean up. Installation/reassembly went off without a hitch as well. Anyway just want to say thank you to you guys for posting up some very useful tips. THANKS again http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/fing02.gif


So would you say you need both the breaker tool and the riveting tool? The "grind the head off the pins in the old chain" method and a proper length new chain make the breaker tool unnecessary, correct?


Just makes it easier to use the breaker (you can actually mess the tool up if you don't grind the heads 1st )

You can saw the chain off.........

OK, more experience with this. After 32,578 miles, my original chain on the '06 died. The "red death" appeared and three links got tight, as indicated by my postmortem exam.

Today, I installed a new D I D 530VM, X-ring chain....gold and "blingy". I was going to take pics but decided not to as this is a very straight forward job. I used PACIFICMAN's idea of a zip tie to hold the slave cylinder piston in. It will creep out otherwise. Kudos to PACIFICMAN's zip tie idea... :fing02: I really don't see how you can get the cover out of the way without taking the slave cylinder off, SEB....but then, you are a genius...... :cool:

Only issues I observed: the countershaft bolt must have been torqued to 100 ft. lbs. from the factory. Took some muscle to get it off. The plastic speed sensor connector between the sensor and the countershaft nut showed signs that it was slowly stripping on the "nut end". I ordered a new one and will put in on when it comes in. This, to me, should not be happening but others have experienced the same thing. Poor engineering me thinks. I did a little "Southern machining" to cut the old chain. Only took a couple of minutes with the hacksaw. The side plates are not made of very hard steel.

The old chain lube crud is no joke. There wasn't as much behind the cover as I expected but this is the nastiest stuff mankind ever created. A screwdriver scrapper and brake cleaner will get rid of it but my man-cave floor suffered a little in spite of the newspaper and catch pan I used.

I put new OEM sprockets on the bike. The OEM front sprocket has a substantial rubber piece on it that I think (and others here have indicated this) that it would have to reduce noise and vibration. Don't know for sure because I've never used aftermarket sprockets without the rubber.

Only cautionary notes I would say are keep exposed slave cylinder piston and so forth clean. Hydraulics and dirt don't mix at all. Also, pull the slave cylinder off gently because there is a gasket behind it that can be damaged. Like others have said, remember where the long and short bolts go. Not hard if you just look at where they came from.

I put things back together after snugging the new chain up nice and loose and went for a very quick 98 mile twistie run. No issues at all. Got the new chain heated up good and no issues with the power being put to it coming out of the turns.

I really don't know why I got very good life from the original chain. I cleaned it when it got fairly dirty and I used brake cleaner to clean it all but one time. I was cautioned by VFRD members about using brake cleaner to clean a chain but see mileage in first sentence. I just kept the chain lubed with Motorex 622 Strong and the bike is used hard with the vast majority of the miles being twisties. Guess the original chain wasn't made on a Monday. Postmortem on the old sprockets showed some wear but not bad at all really.

That's my experience today..... :beer: :biggrin:

Bent, those little plastic sprocket couplings, get a couple they do wear out. Importat to ensure its rotating straight also, or your speed will vary alot

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 October 2010 - 09:05 PM, said:

Bent, those little plastic sprocket couplings, get a couple they do wear out. Importat to ensure its rotating straight also, or your speed will vary alot


Thanks Spud.... you are the man!.....:fing02: My speed varies a lot anyway for some reason.....have no idea why..... :laugh: