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Help Please

11 posts Started 7 Feb 2011 Last recovered post 10 Feb 2011 Wayback Machine snapshot 26 Feb 2011

#1
Hey everyone...as you can tell by my posts and activity I am fairly new at this forum stuff...Please don't hate if this has been asked several times... I have a couple of questions I have an 08 vfr with a scorpion exhaust and K&N air filter I have been looking at getting a PC III usb for my bike. I don't want to try to convert my 800 to a 1 litre bike but I would like to get a bit more performace out of it and also eliminate that dam V tec hesitation.

Q1. How do I know if I need to get the O2 eliminator kit for my bike? Some sites say you need it and others say you don't. I live in Ontario, Canada and we have no smog laws with motorcycles
Q2. I was also wondering if anybody knows of some good Canadian sites I could possibly order from since I don't really want to pay the shipping / taxes / duty to get one from the States.

Thanks for you time...
#2
I will answer the first question, YES. The bike has an O2 sensor and it needs to be eliminated.
#3

[image: View Post]HispanicSlammer, on 07 February 2011 - 04:20 PM, said:

I will answer the first question, YES. The bike has an O2 sensor and it needs to be eliminated.


Actually, it doesn't need to be eliminated, but in most cases it's the better course of action.

The bike operates in a open loop, following a predetermined (and lean) map. If the engine temp is above 160, RPMS are between 3.5K-5.5K (ish), the throttle is held steady with openings greater than 5% and less than 40%, the bike will go close loop and try adjust the mixture. The map is set up to be rich in these areas so if there's a failure the bike will not be harmed by a over lean mixture. The signal from the oxygen sensor will to lean the mixture in order to achieve better fuel mileage and lower emissions. If the throttle is moved off of "steady", out of the 5%-%40 "window", the engine speed leaves the 3.5K-5.5K "cruise window", or temp goes below 160 (yah right), control will go back to the map. At times, the difference between closed-loop and open-loop can be fairly large and the "in and out" can be felt when you make small changes in the throttle. Variances in injectors, fuel pressure regulators, O2 sensors, and even the weather and altitude can make this vary from "not noticeable" to "I'm trading this POS in".

A O2 sensor compares the oxygen content in the exhaust to the oxygen content on the outside of the sensor, which is handy because, in theory, it should compensate for altitude. When the air/fuel mixture is rich and there is little O2 in the exhaust, the difference in oxygen levels across the sensing element generates a voltage through the sensor's platinum electrodes: typically 0.8 to 0.9 volts. When the air/fuel mixture is lean and there is more oxygen in the exhaust, the sensor's voltage drops to 0.1 to 0.3 volts. When the air/fuel mixture is perfectly balanced and combustion is cleanest, the sensor's output voltage is around 0.45 volts.

When you remove the sensor, the voltage output to the ECU is 0 volts. When the ECU sees zero volts, it believes that the mixture is already as lean as possible, so it takes no action to move it from its rich starting point as set by the map. Removing the sensor doesn't stop the closed loop from happening, it just convinces the ECU that the bike is already too lean and no changes are made.

The O2 sensor has 4 wires, 2 are the sensor output and the other 2 are for the heater. The O2 sensor doesn't operate correctly until it gets hot, so in order to speed things up, they have a heater. The ECU monitors the current going through the heater to make sure that it's operating properly. If the heater burns out or somehow becomes a open circuit (unplugged), the current will stop flowing and the ECU will trip the "FI" light. The 330ohm resistor is actually put in place of the 2 heater wires to make the ECU think the sensor is still connected and operating properly.

The Power Commander "alters" the stock map but once you get the in "close loop window" the ECU will use the O2 sensors to re-adjust your altered map. In most cases, this will not work very well, but it won't hurt anything. It some cases, especially on a stock bike, it might be handy. Using the sensors will get you the best fuel mileage with no real change in performance because they only come into play during "cruise". However, depending on your bike and tolerance for the "on-off" of closed loop, you might want sacrifice some fuel for smoother operation.
#4

[image: View Post]coderighter, on 07 February 2011 - 04:56 PM, said:

Actually, it doesn't need to be eliminated, but in most cases it's the better course of action.

The bike operates in a open loop,...............................................................................................


I was about to say about the same, :491: but since you beat me to it I will just add: why not buy the PCV instead, then you could always add Auto-Tune later. :fing02:

BR

PS there isn't much to be gained performance wise from the VFR(maybe 5% if lucky), but you can smooth it out some if set-up properly.
Changing the gearing will provide the "Best" feel performance gain IMO. :fing02:
And a ToroCharger would be the best actual power gain!
#5

[image: View Post]JB007, on 07 February 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

Hey everyone...as you can tell by my posts and activity I am fairly new at this forum stuff...Please don't hate if this has been asked several times... I have a couple of questions I have an 08 vfr with a scorpion exhaust and K&N air filter I have been looking at getting a PC III usb for my bike. I don't want to try to convert my 800 to a 1 litre bike but I would like to get a bit more performace out of it and also eliminate that dam V tec hesitation.

Q1. How do I know if I need to get the O2 eliminator kit for my bike? Some sites say you need it and others say you don't. I live in Ontario, Canada and we have no smog laws with motorcycles
Q2. I was also wondering if anybody knows of some good Canadian sites I could possibly order from since I don't really want to pay the shipping / taxes / duty to get one from the States.

Thanks for you time...


Question one seems to have been answered so here a little help with number 2. This site has been good to me http://www.baysideperformance.ca hope it helps you out.
#6
thanks everyone for your input I do appreiate it. So lets get to the meat and potatoes of it all. Is it worth all the trouble / time / money to put one in? Almost $400 CAD with O2 sensor eliminator kit or is it called the O2 optimizer kit?
#7
It is completely worth it. I have it in mine and wouldn't go back. I don't have the snatchy throttle or the dead spot. I highly recommend it.

You can save a little dough on the O2 eliminaters and use 330ohm resistors. There's a "How-to" in here somewhere. I think that I paid liek $2 for the resistors.
#8

[image: View Post]scottdash, on 07 February 2011 - 09:25 PM, said:

[image: View Post]JB007, on 07 February 2011 - 04:10 PM, said:

Hey everyone...as you can tell by my posts and activity I am fairly new at this forum stuff...Please don't hate if this has been asked several times... I have a couple of questions I have an 08 vfr with a scorpion exhaust and K&N air filter I have been looking at getting a PC III usb for my bike. I don't want to try to convert my 800 to a 1 litre bike but I would like to get a bit more performace out of it and also eliminate that dam V tec hesitation.

Q1. How do I know if I need to get the O2 eliminator kit for my bike? Some sites say you need it and others say you don't. I live in Ontario, Canada and we have no smog laws with motorcycles
Q2. I was also wondering if anybody knows of some good Canadian sites I could possibly order from since I don't really want to pay the shipping / taxes / duty to get one from the States.

Thanks for you time...


Question one seems to have been answered so here a little help with number 2. This site has been good to me http://www.baysideperformance.ca hope it helps you out.

:+1:
Bought my PCIII there.

Rob
#9

[image: View Post]coderighter, on 07 February 2011 - 04:56 PM, said:

The Power Commander "alters" the stock map but once you get the in "close loop window" the ECU will use the O2 sensors to re-adjust your altered map. In most cases, this will not work very well, but it won't hurt anything. It some cases, especially on a stock bike, it might be handy. Using the sensors will get you the best fuel mileage with no real change in performance because they only come into play during "cruise". However, depending on your bike and tolerance for the "on-off" of closed loop, you might want sacrifice some fuel for smoother operation.


Great detailed explanation of how the O2 sensors work. Thanks.

I say eliminate the suckers. My '07 would frequently go lean at small, constant throttle openings, usually around freeway cruising speeds. The result is that the bike looses power and begins to slow down. I compensate by increasing throttle to get it out of closed loop mode. Well, it gets very annoying repeating that over and over.

There may be a theoretical increase in gas mileage with the O2 Sensors operating. But it's all theoretical. I don't notice an increase in fuel consumption after I eliminated the O2 sensors and the PC III running things. Instead, I got smoother running, throttle response, and a smooth power curve especially in the 4k-6k RPM range. The O2 Eliminators are there to reduce emissions from an already efficient and lean running engine by starving it of fuel even more.
#10

[image: View Post]JB007, on 08 February 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

thanks everyone for your input I do appreiate it. So lets get to the meat and potatoes of it all. Is it worth all the trouble / time / money to put one in? Almost $400 CAD with O2 sensor eliminator kit or is it called the O2 optimizer kit?


YOu bet it's worth it! Read my post below on the results of the PC III install and O2 Elimination on my '07 VFR800.

It's all positive results, no negative.

It's also a piece of cake to install--fun and trouble free within instant gratification!
#11
I just wanted to thank you all for all your valuable input. I would like you to know that the order has been placed and I should arriving next week sometime. To any Canadians out there if you want to deal with an amazing company I would highly suggest Blue Streak Racing.com They guy there is amazing to talk to and he also price matches and not to mention that any orders over $59 is free shipping anywhere in Canada.
End of thread · 11 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 26 Feb 2011