Lessons learned from doing the brakes today

Just finished replacing all (3) sets of pads with EBC HH Pads. The bike has 35,500ish miles and this is its first new set. I learned a lot of things today that others may find useful (if not life-saving) if they've never done their brakes before.

1) When checking pad thickness, check EVERY pad! Do NOT ASSume that all will wear evenly. I had been keeping an eye on the RH (as you sit on the bike) pad thickness by occassionally popping off the caliper and checking the wear indicators. All seemed well, so I never checked the others. Big mistake. The ONLY reason I changed the pads today was because they've been making an ever-so-slight squeak lately that's slowly been driving me nuts. So with my first track day 2 weeks from today, I figured it wouldn't hurt to replace the pads and take care of the noise. Much to my surprise, ONE OF THE LH PADS WAS WORN TO WITHIN .050" (or less) OF THE BACKING PLATE!! I honestly felt sick to my stomach. I've been riding fairly aggressively lately and obviously the track day won't be a walk in the park. I don't want to think what would have happened if I let them go any further. I would guess the uneven wear may have something to do with the linked brake setup being on that side, but I'm not sure how that affects it.

2) Using a STURDY 5mm hex, break the slide pin bolt that runs through the pads BEFORE you remove the caliper. It's in there TIGHT and you'll never get it off holding the caliper in your hand. I actually busted the ball end off one of my hexes just trying to loosen one of these (which is my fault; you should never use a ball end on a high torque application. I should have known better).

3) Getting the pistons back in the caliper can be done by hand, but you'll need to take the cover off the master reservoir and siphon some fluid out first. Be careful not to push the pistons too far in because you run the risk of ruining the seals. Flush with the body of the caliper will suffice.

4) When you siphon fluid out of the reservoir, leave enough to cover the pinhole at the bottom. If you suck out more than that, do NOT pull the brake lever or you WILL need to bleed the brakes!

Hope something here helps someone else. All in all, it was an easy job, especially if you have experience doing disc brakes on other vehicles. But whomever decided to put that heavy duty of threadlock on those slide pins is one sick SOB!!!

Mike

I would add:   Thoroughly clean the exposed portion of the pistons before shoving them back in.   Some Brake Kleen and a toothbrush could prevent a caliper rebuild.

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 08 April 2011 - 07:09 PM, said:

I would add:   Thoroughly clean the exposed portion of the pistons before shoving them back in.   Some Brake Kleen and a toothbrush could prevent a caliper rebuild.
:+1:

Especially when buying a used bike! My PC800, when I bought it, had a relatively thick ring around the pistons that was pushed in beyond the seals when the previous owner replaced the pads. The result was almost no brake, then bam- heavy brake as the ring was forced outside the seal!
Full disassembly and cleaning solved that. :idea3:

The left pads always wear first, by design.  They're applied first, before the right side, but I forget whether it's when you use the rear brake, or front.  Take a look at something that tells you how the linked braking system works and it's explained.

[image: View Post]Lee 2002, on 08 April 2011 - 07:09 PM, said:

I would add:   Thoroughly clean the exposed portion of the pistons before shoving them back in.   Some Brake Kleen and a toothbrush could prevent a caliper rebuild.

Crap, that's a good idea. Didn't think of that. Hopefully mine are OK.

Mike

Use an old brake pad to push the caliper pistons back, so if you mess it up, nobody cares, the old pads are trash anyhow.

Lube the caliper slide pins with some Disc Brake lubricant, I like the Permatex Ultra brake grease myself.


[image: Posted Image]

Ive replaced so many pad sets on the vfr , ive lost count,  just stick with oem and all the pad sets wear at different rates, just replace the particular pad set when its due, NO reason to replace all 3 sets together, its not an issue, as Im very sensitive if there was any benenfit or negative aspect.  course you wouldnt want to mix different pads or brands.

[image: View Post]whiteboyslo, on 08 April 2011 - 07:01 PM, said:

Just finished replacing all (3) sets of pads with EBC HH Pads. The bike has 35,500ish miles and this is its first new set. I learned a lot of things today that others may find useful (if not life-saving) if they've never done their brakes before.

1) When checking pad thickness, check EVERY pad! Do NOT ASSume that all will wear evenly. I had been keeping an eye on the RH (as you sit on the bike) pad thickness by occassionally popping off the caliper and checking the wear indicators. All seemed well, so I never checked the others. Big mistake. The ONLY reason I changed the pads today was because they've been making an ever-so-slight squeak lately that's slowly been driving me nuts. So with my first track day 2 weeks from today, I figured it wouldn't hurt to replace the pads and take care of the noise. Much to my surprise, ONE OF THE LH PADS WAS WORN TO WITHIN .050" (or less) OF THE BACKING PLATE!! I honestly felt sick to my stomach. I've been riding fairly aggressively lately and obviously the track day won't be a walk in the park. I don't want to think what would have happened if I let them go any further. I would guess the uneven wear may have something to do with the linked brake setup being on that side, but I'm not sure how that affects it.

2) Using a STURDY 5mm hex, break the slide pin bolt that runs through the pads BEFORE you remove the caliper. It's in there TIGHT and you'll never get it off holding the caliper in your hand. I actually busted the ball end off one of my hexes just trying to loosen one of these (which is my fault; you should never use a ball end on a high torque application. I should have known better).

3) Getting the pistons back in the caliper can be done by hand, but you'll need to take the cover off the master reservoir and siphon some fluid out first. Be careful not to push the pistons too far in because you run the risk of ruining the seals. Flush with the body of the caliper will suffice.

4) When you siphon fluid out of the reservoir, leave enough to cover the pinhole at the bottom. If you suck out more than that, do NOT pull the brake lever or you WILL need to bleed the brakes!

Hope something here helps someone else. All in all, it was an easy job, especially if you have experience doing disc brakes on other vehicles. But whomever decided to put that heavy duty of threadlock on those slide pins is one sick SOB!!!

Mike

Is this on a 800A or just 800. I have the ABS and it being my first ABS bike I'm not familiar if it requires a different procedure. Coming from a Yamaha FZ1, the VFR is complicated and certainly more difficult to work on (sans chain adjustment, removing rear wheel!).

[image: View Post]Gamecock94, on 09 April 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

Is this on a 800A or just 800. I have the ABS and it being my first ABS bike I'm not familiar if it requires a different procedure. Coming from a Yamaha FZ1, the VFR is complicated and certainly more difficult to work on (sans chain adjustment, removing rear wheel!).

Non-ABS, so I'm not sure how (if at all) it changes what you need to do. Overall, it's a pretty easy job, though. It's 3 bolts on each caliper (that includes the slide pin through the pads). You just have to figure out which bolts you actually need to undo, but it's pretty self-explanatory once you study it a bit. Of course, a repair manual would make it completely idiot-proof. Bleeding/flushing the brakes is another story, though. With the linked brakes, it looks like a damn nightmare. I think I'll leave that to the pros.

So, I took the bike out on a shakedown ride this morning around the neighborhood. Wow, do those pads BITE! I've never found the brakes on the VFR to be lacking (on the contrary, I've found them to be very good) but it's a whole new animal now. I'm going to have to re-learn the brakes so I don't send myself over the bars; they're that good.

Mike

[image: View Post]spud786, on 09 April 2011 - 09:45 AM, said:

Ive replaced so many pad sets on the vfr , ive lost count,  just stick with oem and all the pad sets wear at different rates, just replace the particular pad set when its due, NO reason to replace all 3 sets together, its not an issue, as Im very sensitive if there was any benenfit or negative aspect.  course you wouldnt want to mix different pads or brands.

Very true on your last point. I wanted to try these pads because I had heard good things. And, to be honest, while the LH side was SCARY low, the RH and the rear weren't far behind them. Now I know the state of all of them and know enough to check each one periodically.

Mike

[image: View Post]whiteboyslo, on 09 April 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Gamecock94, on 09 April 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

Is this on a 800A or just 800. I have the ABS and it being my first ABS bike I'm not familiar if it requires a different procedure. Coming from a Yamaha FZ1, the VFR is complicated and certainly more difficult to work on (sans chain adjustment, removing rear wheel!).

Non-ABS, so I'm not sure how (if at all) it changes what you need to do. Overall, it's a pretty easy job, though. It's 3 bolts on each caliper (that includes the slide pin through the pads). You just have to figure out which bolts you actually need to undo, but it's pretty self-explanatory once you study it a bit. Of course, a repair manual would make it completely idiot-proof. Bleeding/flushing the brakes is another story, though. With the linked brakes, it looks like a damn nightmare. I think I'll leave that to the pros.

So, I took the bike out on a shakedown ride this morning around the neighborhood. Wow, do those pads BITE! I've never found the brakes on the VFR to be lacking (on the contrary, I've found them to be very good) but it's a whole new animal now. I'm going to have to re-learn the brakes so I don't send myself over the bars; they're that good.

Mike
Another thing if you like brakes in their top form, don't forget to wipe the rotors with brake cleaner often.......... :fing02:

[image: View Post]whiteboyslo, on 09 April 2011 - 12:30 PM, said:

[image: View Post]Gamecock94, on 09 April 2011 - 12:14 PM, said:

Is this on a 800A or just 800. I have the ABS and it being my first ABS bike I'm not familiar if it requires a different procedure. Coming from a Yamaha FZ1, the VFR is complicated and certainly more difficult to work on (sans chain adjustment, removing rear wheel!).

Non-ABS, so I'm not sure how (if at all) it changes what you need to do. Overall, it's a pretty easy job, though. It's 3 bolts on each caliper (that includes the slide pin through the pads). You just have to figure out which bolts you actually need to undo, but it's pretty self-explanatory once you study it a bit. Of course, a repair manual would make it completely idiot-proof. Bleeding/flushing the brakes is another story, though. With the linked brakes, it looks like a damn nightmare. I think I'll leave that to the pros.

So, I took the bike out on a shakedown ride this morning around the neighborhood. Wow, do those pads BITE! I've never found the brakes on the VFR to be lacking (on the contrary, I've found them to be very good) but it's a whole new animal now. I'm going to have to re-learn the brakes so I don't send myself over the bars; they're that good.

Mike

I pretty confident I could figure the pad replacement out and I do have a manual.  As far as bleeding on ABS, you are right, I left it to the professionals to save time and frustration.

Changed out my pads front and rear today....pain in the ass.  Especially the rear. I ended up taking all three calipers off cause I can't see how someone could get the pistons compressed to get new pads back in there.  Its pretty tough to get the pistons compressed (yes, I had the covers off the master cyclinder). I ended up using the old brake pad and one of those Quikgrip clamps to squeeze down on them. The rear has one bolt that is in the middle holding the caliper on that is a bit of a pain to reach, but time and patience prevailed.   The pads I replaced said "Nissin" on them so I assume they are a stock pad. I went with EBC HH since I've had those on all my street bikes previous with good results.  Also got the oil and filter changed out today (Rotella T Synthetic and K&N Filter). I was also going to do the coolant, but after looking at it in the overflow it was still pretty clean so I passed for the time being on it.

Anyway, mission accomplished. I feel better for it!

I use my thumbs to push the pistons in, with a wadded rag. The res cap off is a must though.  I normally just use wd40 and some qtips to clean before pushing

I recently replaced my front pads with the EBC HH, and now there is a funny noise coming from the brakes, like a whinning noise.  Brake feel great, but the noise is annoying.  Did I do something wrong, or is this normal untill the pads seat in?

thanks.

I would add that at the change of pads Is the time to bleed the lines so that you have fresh fluid thoughout the system. (not just the reseviour)

The first time I had my brakes looked after at the dealer (great mechanic, owned VFR for years), it was noted they were worn at different rates. We talked about my technique and I was told, for more consitant wearing, to try to use the front and back brakes together instead of fronts all the time, backs occasionally. So I've focused on that; now the wear is much more uniform and the brake job lasts longer. More important, the stopping power is much greater, so if I suddenly need more braking than originally anticipated, I'm right there, prepared for maximum braking.  

[image: View Post]bayarearider, on 25 April 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

I would add that at the change of pads Is the time to bleed the lines so that you have fresh fluid thoughout the system. (not just the reseviour)

Not necessary, unless you need new fluid. I didn't as mine was just done not too long ago. I did have to open the master cylinders and suck a bit of fluid out so that when you compress the pistons it doesn't overflow.  Just watch out you don't get fluid on painted pieces.

[image: View Post]MaxSwell, on 25 April 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

The first time I had my brakes looked after at the dealer (great mechanic, owned VFR for years), it was noted they were worn at different rates. We talked about my technique and I was told, for more consitant wearing, to try to use the front and back brakes together instead of fronts all the time, backs occasionally. So I've focused on that; now the wear is much more uniform and the brake job lasts longer. More important, the stopping power is much greater, so if I suddenly need more braking than originally anticipated, I'm right there, prepared for maximum braking.  

They wear at different rates because the pistons are only on one side of the caliper.....that simple.  I've always found that the addition of braided stainless lines also help significantly in feel. Although I have not put them on the VFR for lack of $$$.

[image: View Post]ridered, on 25 April 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

I recently replaced my front pads with the EBC HH, and now there is a funny noise coming from the brakes, like a whinning noise.  Brake feel great, but the noise is annoying.  Did I do something wrong, or is this normal untill the pads seat in?

thanks.

Sounds like drag. Most brakes will drag some, but maybe you have a sticky caliper/piston? Maybe time for a rebuild?

As I mentioned in the other brake thread:

If its a sound like bacon sizzling, Zzzzzzzzzzt,  it's probably aftermarket pads as they go across the drilled holes in the rotors.

If its squeaking or squealing, and the pads have lots of meat on them, removing the pads, and working them on some coarse sandpaper to break any surface glazing can help, and clean the discs with brake cleaner before reinstalling the pads.

Just be sure that the LH front caliper is not rubbing on the disc. It needs 0.7mm clearance from the disc and can be adjusted by shifting the front axle and fork leg after loosening the main axle bolt and pinch clamps.

There should be a measuring gauge on the back of the OEM toolkit in a little pouch for this purpose.

I assume the noise Is only when you are braking? You didn't say.