I bought an 04 last night, when I got there to look at it the owner had trouble getting it started. it did start and idled on the center stand for 10 minutes or so. I revved it up and it ran fine. I got it home after a two hour drive and it tried to fire but would not start. I recharged the battery over night and it only fired one quick time then nothing.
the owner says the bike hasnt been ridden in three years, but it was started once in a while. it had very little fuel in it when I got it. so I put some more in it last night still no luck.
any ideas on where to start or what to look for besides plugs and fresh gas??
First thing I'd recommend would be to remove the battery and take it somewhere to be load tested (like Advance Auto).
I've had older batteries that would spin the engine fairly fast, but the voltage would drop so much the spark plugs wouldn't fire reliably. Under the circumstances it probably would be a good idea to replace the battery anyway-unless the seller told you it has been replaced recently.
Also since the motorcycle hadn't been ridden in years and had little gas in the tank, it may have accumulated a pocket of water in the bottom due to condensation. So you might want to consider draining & re-filling the tank, or at a minimum siphon some fuel from the bottom into a clear container to check for water contamination..
Regardless I'd also recommend changing the fuel filter (could be clogged or water-logged) and checking the condition of air filter element in case "varmints" may have nested in there. Mice are famous for building nests in air filter enclosures when equipment sits unused for extended periods.
Last year when the plastic came off for some maintenance a nest was discovered in my ST1100's airbox and between the banks of cylinders. What a mess!. Ended up having to pull the carburetors out just to get at all the shredded paper & fabric,sunflower seed shells, etc, Note that my ST has always been stored indoors in my utility shed.
Good Luck!
Edited by smoothsailin, 29 February 2012 - 12:51 PM.
also the battery was purchased in 08 and sat in the guy's basement since 09. the recalls have been done and the valves were adjusted three years ago when it was stored. i will get a fuel filter and a pump as well to drain the fuel. I will post up tomorrow with my findings.
Once it's running I recommend a bottle of Seafoam and a ride it like you stol it session to clear the injectors and heads of any buildup. Followed by a oil change
so I went to the dealer and they wanted 160.00 for a battery, has anyone run a different type of battery that you can get at a walmart or meijer?? i found a couple there that look the same size but they have a different model number...
i just ordered one for 145cdn. shipped. an oem yuasa. i just finished going through 2 cheap ass batteries in the last 3years(warrantied for one replacement), and, well, the oem one lasted 7 years. to save 40 bucks for that is not economical!!!
i think i remember seeing them for 120us shipped(within us) on fleabay. does your dealer give discounts? i usually get min 10% off.
I had the same thing happened to me on my 07, finished a nice ride in the twisties and headed down to the gas station to fill up. It wound not start, just meter lights came on and when I pressed the starter button everything went out. I ask the gas station attendent to use there portable jump box. It fired up and when I took off the cables the bikes died.
Called the wife to bring the track rc51 battery swapped it out and rode home. I had battery load tested at my mechanics also had him checked my charging system. everything is fine except the battery wont hold a charge. I was relief until he told me what the battery cost. $180 :ohmy: . but he only charged me $140 though :smile:
luckily it died at the gas station and not up in the hills with no recieption.
well just for grins I took the air cleaner off and sprayed some carb cleaner down in it. I got it to fire a few times. but it didnt run. any thoughts on what to do next?
Your engine won't run on carburator cleaner. If you have the air filter out and have easy access to the throttle bodies placing few drops of gas in each may get it fire up. However, but be very concious of fumes build-up, especially if you're working in a enclosed space like inside a garage or shed w/the door closed.
Someone recently posted that the battery used in a ST1300 will fit, and has considerably greater capacity than the standard battery called for in a vfr. I haven't checked this claim out, but it shouldn't be hard to find out what the dimensions may be. Of course greater capacity may mean the ST's battery may be heavier.
If you're a Costco member and live close to one you might want to consider giving them a shot. As long as the external dimensions are about the same & the AH + CCA ratings are at least as great, and if the polarity and position of the terminals match the old battery you don't have to limit yourself to replacing the old one with another original battery.
One thing I learned about Costco when my wife worked there is their return policy is stellar. My wife told me that they've been known to issue full refunds to customers who have returned items that were years old, beat up, broken, broken, dirty, etc. One customer (who also happened to be an employee working at another Costco) even returned a soiled mattress to the store where my wife worked for full refund!
Last summer the battery in my '98 died during the ride home from work on a hellishly hot day. I ended up catching a ride w/a good samaritan to the nearest Advance Auto to have the old battery load tested (it had a bad cell). I ended up purchasing a replacement from Advance on the spot for ~$90 (not a Yuasa though)..
The recommended Yuasa listed for 2002 and newer model 800s appears to be the YTZ12S which I found listed online for $178.45 (ouch!). The battery's dimensions were listed as 6" x 3 7/16" x 4 23/8" with ratings of 11 AH & 210 CCA.
Does your viffer have ABS? If so note that the recommended battery may not be the same model (I didn't check).
Edited by smoothsailin, 29 February 2012 - 05:39 PM.
I like everybody else recommend change out the battery, that is the first thing to do so you have the correct cranking current to spin that motor. You haven't said last post if you changed out battery before you got a kick out of engine, it's not good to use carb cleaner on a cold motor that doesn't start.
Now this maybe an oversight but you do have the kill switch in run position so when you turn ignition on you hear fuel pump prime (easy mistake to make since new bike).
1. New fully charged battery
2. Replace fuel completely, drain tank, bike has been sitting along time so fuel maybe contaminated mostly water condensate.
3. Make sure kill switch is in run position & when you turn on ignition you hear fuel pump prime
4. Lift tank, take off top air box & spray motor start into throttle bodies
5. You may have to recharge new battery a few times as they do go flat quickly from cranking bike
Because you did have running when with seller I just think it is being a stubborn starter especially with oild battery as the 6th gen needs allot of power to operate. That is why I don't think you need new plugs etc but it might be wise to just pull the plug caps & make sure no corrosion.
After re-reading your original observations I still feel it's likely you'll discover bad fuel and water in the tank may be causing the problems you're experiencing. Gas these days goes bad fast and three years with a nearly empty tank pretty much guarantees there has been some moisture accumulation through condensation. Unfortunately, you may also discover rust formation insided the tank as well. If so, loose rust and scale could clog-up the fuel filter. Also, if water has been in the fuel pump for an extended period the condition of that component could be suspect.
Do you hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds each time you turn on the ignition off and back on? If so, does the tone sound steady? If not, the fuel pump may need to be serviced (if that's possible... I dunno) or (more likely) may have to be replaced.
My Dad's '88 Toyota pickup has been sitting unused for a 3-4 years, and now the engine will only run briefly after you've sprayed som starting fluid on the air filter media, or have poured a little gas in the throttle body. I'm fairly confident that Dad's fuel-injected Toyota's fuel pump may have failed due to bad fuel and water accumlation in the tank. Regardless of the cause, I have confirmed that the fuel pump is not working.
Fuel-injected engines like the ones in our viffers (5th & later generations) require electric fuel pumps to pressurize the injectors. Gravity-feed systems like used for earlier generations (4th and prior) w/carbureted motorcycles won't cut it where our machines are concerned.
Edited by smoothsailin, 29 February 2012 - 06:44 PM.
I pulled all the plugs and tested them with another engine and they sparked fine. I checked one on the bike and it sparked fine. just installed the new battery, and its doing the same thing. i bought a pump and pumped out all the fuel I could then added a touch of dry gas. there was less than a pint left in the tank. I poured a gallon of fresh gas in it. how do I drain it completely and where is the fuel filter??
man what a first day with my new bike.....
Edited by mccostlin, 29 February 2012 - 06:35 PM.
I can appreciate your frustration. Have you tried to drizzle a little gas into the throttle body openings as I suggested?
Note that it may take a little time for any old fuel and water to be replaced in the fuel system and hoses by the clean fuel you've introduced. Until then you may have to add a little gas several times before the engine start and continue to run.
Have you confirmed the fuel pump is priming the injectors when the ignition is turned on? If not there's no way it will keep running unless you constantly prime it w/gas manually through the intake openings.
Gotta go now...good luck!
Carey
Edited by smoothsailin, 29 February 2012 - 06:52 PM.
While you're working on the bike you might as well do a "full" trickle charge on your new battery. Not saying that the problem but new batteries aren't usually "fully" charged, from sitting on shelf for who knows how long.
Some more to consider:
- Check if any fuse blown.
- How is the FI light on the panel works? FI Light on when turn the key on? Any sound of FI check? After auto-check, does the light come off?
- After changing the battery, tried to press Start, listen to the sound of Starter motor. If you don't feel the work of the Starter motor - so that's it. Otherwise, may be something else.
pulled fuel pump checked fuel filter, its clear. getting spark, new battery fuel down the throttle bodies, pump is making noise, FI light goes out, nothing......I guess I will get new plugs tomorrow and some fresh fuel and see what happens. i dont know what else to check... battery is on the trickle charger for the night.....
it runs like a champ, got some new plugs in it and it fired right up. just for everyone's reference Autolite Car plugs #4302 is an exact match for the 18.00 NGK plugs. I paid 9.00 for all four. I only let it run for 30 seconds or so and I am buying the NGK's in the morning. but in a pinch they will work. cant wait to ride tomorrow...i dont care what the weather is....
thanks for all the responses, I wouldnt have figured it out without you.... I believe the fuel filter was plugged and the gas had water in it.....
Fuel was probably the problem being old & contaminated, it is exaggerated with bikes that use iridium plugs (standard fitment on a gen 6) because once there wet (fuel soaked) they don't seem to work. I have performed services on vtecs that after putting back together wouldn't fire up yet if I leave over night may fire up next day after fuel has evaporated, some have needed new plugs yet before service the old plugs were operating fine. I can't explain why but seems if bike doesn't start first few rotations the iridium plugs just become to wet.
[image: View Post]zRoYz, on 29 February 2012 - 11:17 PM, said:
Fuel was probably the problem being old & contaminated, it is exaggerated with bikes that use iridium plugs (standard fitment on a gen 6) because once there wet (fuel soaked) they don't seem to work. I have performed services on vtecs that after putting back together wouldn't fire up yet if I leave over night may fire up next day after fuel has evaporated, some have needed new plugs yet before service the old plugs were operating fine. I can't explain why but seems if bike doesn't start first few rotations the iridium plugs just become to wet.
Quoted for truth! Have a couple of CRF dirtbikes that behave exactly as zroyz described. Anytime I take the engines down to replace top ends I have found this to happen. Keep a couple of old plugs around to get the bikes started and then put the good plugs in after that.
just got back from my first ride, and I am quite impressed. its gonna take some time to whittle down the chicken strips but I can feel it coming back already.....
the front wheel seemed to wander a bit in corners and on uneven pavement. I looked at the front tire and I can see it has a bit of uneven wear.. I assume thats my culprit, what do you think.........
So the spark plugs were fouled. As the saying goes "hindsight is 20/20", so I guess that should be no surprise since the prior owner admitted that he had only started the motor for a few years w/o riding the bike anywhere.. Also, if the Autolite plugs you installed are a perfect match why install the more expensive NGK's tomorrow? If it ain't broke don't try to fix it! Just ride...
Uneven wear on the front (or rear) tire is probably contributing to the wandering you mentioned.
You should check the dates of manufacture for both tires using the instructions provided per the linke below.
If they're more than a few years years old you should consider replacing them even if they still appear to have plenty of tread. The rubber in tires hardens w/age and grip is reduced accordingly.
Before I bought my '98 last year I asked the seller how old the tires were and he replied "...I think they were replaced 3 or 4 years ago". However, after riding my viffer home a few days later I checked the tire codes and discovered both had 1998 dates of mfg. So I'm pretty sure they must have been the original equipment (13-year-old) Dunlops. While tread on the the rear was pretty thin after 6.2k miles, the front tire still appeared to be in fine condition despite the age.
In any case I chose to replace both with a set of Michelin Pilot Roads and noticed an improvement in the bike's handling right away.
Edited by smoothsailin, 01 March 2012 - 05:55 PM.
[image: View Post]mccostlin, on 01 March 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:
just got back from my first ride, and I am quite impressed. its gonna take some time to whittle down the chicken strips but I can feel it coming back already.....
the front wheel seemed to wander a bit in corners and on uneven pavement. I looked at the front tire and I can see it has a bit of uneven wear.. I assume thats my culprit, what do you think.........
thanks again.
Sounds like the front tire could be cupped. If it is, replacement will cure your wandering problem most likely. I would also check/grease/properly tighten the steering head bearings.
36/42 are the recommended tire pressures as per Honda.
Get a factory service manual. It will prove to be invaluable.
Glad you got her running! You may wish to look at all your other fluids like coolant, brake/clutch fluid, fork oil, etc. Those may need some mtnce due to time/age.
I plan on changing all the fluids this week, the previous owner mailed me the service manual and a cover today, he forgot to give them to me when I bought it. I guess I will do a search through all the oil threads to come up with what I want to run in it. I always ran shell rotella 15-40 in my harleys....