Changing out a Thermostat - Something besides a Honda unit?

Okay, my 2008 has recently turned 12.5K and the thermostat has given up the ghost.....or at least I'm assuming it has.  I haven't pulled it out yet but its idling high for quite some time and when it does warm up, the engine temps drops to around 150 or so riding here in Atlanta in the last few days.

I called the local Honda dealership and they DON'T have a thermostat in stock and will have to order one so I'm looking for a "proven alternative".  Anyone ever try a thermostat from another vehicle?  If so please let me know.  I'd rather not have to stand around in the parts isle going through boxes until I find one thats the right size and temp.

Thanks

I'd have to do a search here on the forum to see which one, but I changed mine to a non-honda thermostat - got the info off this site. This is a great forum!! Just do a search, weed through a few threads, you'll find it.

[image: View Post]fdbgt, on 13 April 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Okay, my 2008 has recently turned 12.5K and the thermostat has given up the ghost.....or at least I'm assuming it has.  I haven't pulled it out yet but its idling high for quite some time and when it does warm up, the engine temps drops to around 150 or so riding here in Atlanta in the last few days.

I called the local Honda dealership and they DON'T have a thermostat in stock and will have to order one so I'm looking for a "proven alternative".  Anyone ever try a thermostat from another vehicle?  If so please let me know.  I'd rather not have to stand around in the parts isle going through boxes until I find one thats the right size and temp.

Thanks


Ive been saying for years, cause its happened on all models for the past 10 years, its not Honda Thermos thats failing, its their Damn coolant causing it . I dumped that stuff  when the bike was new for prestone, and im pushing 100,000 miles and never had the issue.  The only commonality is the Coolant over that ten year period.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 April 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

[image: View Post]fdbgt, on 13 April 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Okay, my 2008 has recently turned 12.5K and the thermostat has given up the ghost.....or at least I'm assuming it has.  I haven't pulled it out yet but its idling high for quite some time and when it does warm up, the engine temps drops to around 150 or so riding here in Atlanta in the last few days.

I called the local Honda dealership and they DON'T have a thermostat in stock and will have to order one so I'm looking for a "proven alternative".  Anyone ever try a thermostat from another vehicle?  If so please let me know.  I'd rather not have to stand around in the parts isle going through boxes until I find one thats the right size and temp.

Thanks


Ive been saying for years, cause its happened on all models for the past 10 years, its not Honda Thermos thats failing, its their Damn coolant causing it . I dumped that stuff  when the bike was new for prestone, and im pushing 100,000 miles and never had the issue.  The only commonality is the Coolant over that ten year period.

How is this coolant failing? Are you saying it cools too much? or maybe doesn't cool enough? How does coolant "fail"? Are you suggesting the coolant damages the cooling system? 99.9% of all VFR owners never experience a problem with the factory coolant. Can you clarify your statement?

I think its either  chemically welding the thermo or changing the bimetal properties. I just cant believe Honda could have repetitive batches of bad thermos, over a ten year period.

It is just happening far too often and the Coolant is a common denominator, which my bike has not been exposed to for any length of time, and never had the issue.

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

I think its either  chemically welding the thermo or changing the bimetal properties. I just cant believe Honda could have repetitive batches of bad thermos, over a ten year period.

It is just happening far too often and the Coolant is a common denominator, which my bike has not been exposed to for any length of time, and never had the issue.

Thermostats are wax units so there's no bi-metal elements. They are not produced under particularly exacting tolerances, some go for ever and some fail early. It's pretty unlikely that any particular coolant product is causing damage to the thermostat. Coolant can not "chemically weld" anything or change the properties of any type of metal.
Reports of thermostat failures will obviously be concentrated on a model specific forum, but this doesn't indicate a recurring failure in the VFR line. Honda uses the same coolant in all their bikes and there really is no record of a common problem.

[image: View Post]fdbgt, on 13 April 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Okay, my 2008 has recently turned 12.5K and the thermostat has given up the ghost.....or at least I'm assuming it has.  I haven't pulled it out yet but its idling high for quite some time and when it does warm up, the engine temps drops to around 150 or so riding here in Atlanta in the last few days.

I called the local Honda dealership and they DON'T have a thermostat in stock and will have to order one so I'm looking for a "proven alternative".  Anyone ever try a thermostat from another vehicle?  If so please let me know.  I'd rather not have to stand around in the parts isle going through boxes until I find one thats the right size and temp.

Thanks

When I replaced mine I took the old one to a auto parts store and I matched it up in both size and temperature setting and the result was a "Super Stant" thermo. I had to grind it down a little because the flange shape was a little different. I made a paper template of the old one and transferred the shape onto the new one. When you compare the two you will see where you need to remove the material. It took about 5 min to accomplish and it works perfectly and it only cost me about $4 where Honda wanted like $20.

[image: View Post]Tamworth, on 15 April 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

[image: View Post]spud786, on 15 April 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

I think its either  chemically welding the thermo or changing the bimetal properties. I just cant believe Honda could have repetitive batches of bad thermos, over a ten year period.

It is just happening far too often and the Coolant is a common denominator, which my bike has not been exposed to for any length of time, and never had the issue.

Thermostats are wax units so there's no bi-metal elements. They are not produced under particularly exacting tolerances, some go for ever and some fail early. It's pretty unlikely that any particular coolant product is causing damage to the thermostat. Coolant can not "chemically weld" anything or change the properties of any type of metal.
Reports of thermostat failures will obviously be concentrated on a model specific forum, but this doesn't indicate a recurring failure in the VFR line. Honda uses the same coolant in all their bikes and there really is no record of a common problem.


Silicates are typically used for cleaning purposes, Honda has no silicates, so cleaning is done via other chemical properties, if cleaning is insufficient, a chemical weld can take place between two moving parts.  The vfr also runs hotter temperatures than many others, this may also play into the combination of Failure. But the failure rate of vfr thermos is wide spread and over a long period of time.

We can debate this, but If I got a new vfr, that Honda coolant is gone just as I did with my present vfr, cause changing a Thermo is highly undesirable. I can understand your running the honda coolant and want to justify or rule out. I can only say, Ive never had the issue, and the Honda coolant was gone before the first 2000 miles. Ive not regretted it one bit. I have followed the Honda Thermo issue for years, I see no reason to change my thoughts of this common denominator, regardless if I know the exact detailed reason , the coolant is Highly probable though.

I replaced the thermostat on the old girl with a unit from Napa autoparts, I cant remember the part number but if you take it in they should be able to match it up for you thats all I did.  I think the thermostat is the same for a honda civic too.  The only issue I had was that the oem unit had weep hole and the napa one did not, and there is a plunger on the oem unit for a secondary hose.  I just drilled a weep hole in the same spot on the napa part.

Water cools better than coolant anyway, I always laugh about people being so serious about using the "right" coolant. Like its super special or something. I always use 85-90% water. Better to use distilled, but if you have filtered tap that works too. Only reason to have any coolant in your system is to stop corrosion and keep it from freezing. Which a 10% mixture will stop the weather from cracking your block. Been doing it this way on everything I've ever owned, which adds up to a LOT of vehicles.

[image: View Post]NakedViffer, on 15 April 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

Water cools better than coolant anyway, I always laugh about people being so serious about using the "right" coolant. Like its super special or something. I always use 85-90% water. Better to use distilled, but if you have filtered tap that works too. Only reason to have any coolant in your system is to stop corrosion and keep it from freezing. Which a 10% mixture will stop the weather from cracking your block. Been doing it this way on everything I've ever owned, which adds up to a LOT of vehicles.

I noticed you dont have any fairings to retain heat, where does your temp gauge average and max out typically?

Ive noted some whove gone to strictly water wetter and distilled, and they,ve experienced boil over on the VFR. On my VFR I look to the antifreeze for boil over protection a, in addition to corrosion. My wifes 2003 Rav 4 with Toyota coolant has 90,000 miles on original coolant, Im getting concerned about it, but shows no obvious corrosion and looks very clean. But Im probably going to atleast change it out soon. Generally the highest temp Ive seen on my VFR has been about 226 degrees, one time I saw 229 degrees, and that was very abnormal. Average in the Hot summer is around 205 to 210 degrees.

Well I pulled the thermostat out today and it was closed so I tested it.  Out of the bike, it tested fine in some hot water...open, close, open, close.  So I reinstalled it after trying to find a suitable replacement at a couple of local auto parts stores on a Sunday afternoon and having no luck.  Filled it back up with coolant and took it for a test ride.  It was still showing about 150-160 until I came to a stop and then the temp would creep on up towards 190-195.  It I let it sit still long enough, it will get on up to about the 215 mark and then the fan kicks on.

I'm going to let it cool completely and then ride it again to see if its just a matter of getting the rest of the air out of the system.

After another ride or two, if it still fails to maintain proper operating temp, what would you suggest next?

Atlanta is what 70 or 80 degrees, you should be 165 degrees within a mile of riding from a cold start.and never drop below . fan is supposed to kick on around 221 degrees, if kicking on at 215, maybe your temp guage is 5 or 6 points too low.

However if it was winter time, it would be easier to tell, cause your bike would fall way down in temp on a sustained speed run. But even in the 10's and 20's you should still hold the 160 degrees.

I've read that Stant 29788 fits 3-4th gens, but I've also read that Stant 13868 fits VFRs.  Just passing on some "conventional wisdom"...

Ciao,