Manual Cam Chain Tensioners

I just installed APE tensioners on my bike and was curious about how much tension you had to apply to the chain. I haven't tightened them yet, but are we talking hand tight, or hand and then wrench?

My CBR it was barely hand tight,  barely.  Too tight and you will destroy the chain. What does the instructions say?  What does the website say?  As I recall I snugged it then backed it off with the engine running until i got noise then snugged it up until the noise went away, but that was a CBR F2.

Yeah, that's why I was asking. I didn't want to damage the engine. It's going to be hard to back it off with the engine running.

Snug by hand, put loctite at the base of the adjustment screw, lock down lock nut while holding adjustment screw from movement.  That's how I installed mine, with no instructions or help whatsoever from APE.  Really nice tensioners, really no instructions or support to speak of for the install tho........

I have the APE & there are instructions but honestly I found them not to be mostly useless for the VFR install. APE instruction is do them up so cam chain tight (I interpreted this, tight as you can do with your hand) & then back off 1/2 turn.
Now I simply wasn't happy with that because I couldn't get the feel from the front bank cylinders I was happy with due to the cylinder angle tends to have a completely different feel to the rear when tensioning & you seem to be able to add more & more tension while at the same time hand turning motor. Due to first time fitting them & I need everything perfect I just didn't trust this procedure so ended up taking valve covers off so I could see for my self chain tension. You have to remember the guides are nylon so too much tension really isn't going to damage the chain that much but it will damage the nylon guides.

Once I was happy I had even tight tension I backed off 1/2 turn as suggested by APE & put valve covers back on & ran motor, it was too rattly for me so adjusted tensioner in 1/4 turns at a time till quiet but with a slight rattle so not to tight (the rattle I left is very minor & only there at first start up till engine warm). The best way I found was doing the 1/4 turn at a time & test, yes it is a pain but once you have it set first time installed that is your starting reference point for future adjustment. NOTE if you hear a scraping type noise there to tight that means to much friction on nylon guides, to much rattle at idle there lose but you want just a little bit in my book as my thinking is you will have a high wear rate nylon guides as they have zero return give like the standard adjusters.

Adjustment for rear cylinders is great access if you move rear set out of the way, but the front is a bitch & the way I did it so could adjust with out removing throttle bodies & wax unit water line was unplug electrics in the way that run in that position as there are plugs there to do so. Use a ratchet spanner that will slip over top adjustment nut onto lower lock nut & a socket to adjust at top adjustment nut. There is no room at lower lock nut so the ratchet spanner just allows 1-2 clicks to turn to undo & tighten & you have to have lose to adjust tension a fare bit because the adjustment nut is held with a split pin so to much force it shears (it would be smart to weld that nut in place so this doesn't happen). Once finishing adjustment you need to make sure lock nut tight or vibration will be your enemy & I wouldn't use thread lock at all because will jam up things for future adjustment & may interfere with o-ring under lock nut seal.

Hint before installing back off lock nut & threaded rod & apply some oil in thread, this helps with freer adjustment & lubrication for o-ring so it doesn't jam up due to threaded rod cutting into it.

Personal thoughts:
The APE adjusters are a great idea & I'm glade I fitted them because my motor even with new standard adjusters was always noisy at idle, but the quality of the adjuster design is rubbish. The threaded rod they use needs to seal with o-ring which is pathetic in my book they should have a longer body (part that mounts onto motor) so can use smooth shaft for o-ring seal with thread at end for adjustment, if your a machinist you will probably know what I mean & if I has access to workshop I would make my own. The adjustment nut is held on top of threaded rod with split pin that shears with little force, this alone could be avoided if they welded the nut but they have probably don't it this way if you need to remove to renew o-ring which can chew out on threaded rod. Mine doesn't leak oil but that design is rubbish.
I wouldn't recommend installing them if your not mechanically minded & can put up with frustration at adjustment time.

with great success on 99 GSXR750....engine at idle, finger tight until rattle *just*  disappears, snug locknut, done....fight the temptation to tighten it further.

Don't forget that the one and only known example of a 6th-gen with bent valves was from a guy who fitted an APE tensioner.  The lock nut loosened, and ka-boom.

So while the stock OEM CCTs can be noisy, they don't tend to destroy engines.

I had absolutely no problem adjusting the front with all the stuff in place, just the tank lifted.  I used a 1/4" extension and socket and adjusted it by hand until I was happy with the amount of rattle (or lack there of).  Then shut the engine off and used a crows foot and extension to tighten the lock/jam nut while holding the the adjusting bolt with the 1/4" stuff.  But do be sure to use the lock/jam nut, or you can see in my VFR carnage gallery folder what you could look forward to.

Edit: Kaldek I believe is referring to me, and he has hasn't exactly been correct with his statement.  It's not that the lock/jam nut came loose, it was 100% my fault as I didn't lock it down to begin with.  And even this didn't "destroy" my engine, as it is still running just fine, but with just some new parts.

[image: View Post]hondalover, on 30 June 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Edit: Kaldek I believe is referring to me, and he has hasn't exactly been correct with his statement.  It's not that the lock/jam nut came loose, it was 100% my fault as I didn't lock it down to begin with.  And even this didn't "destroy" my engine, as it is still running just fine, but with just some new parts.

OK, so  my memory wasn't spot on and "destroyed" is a relative term (based on the victim's willingness to pay for repairs).  But still, the auto CCTs don't have the problem so I guess my point is that you're trading a noise for a potential expensive failure.    Can you recall what the total repair cost was for your bike after the valves bent?

Honestly you can have problems with any mechanical device, even the standard tensioner if major failure can let the chain jump teeth same out come. You can do a valve service & have a cam bolt come lose or snap the list is endless. The point is check & double check what your doing & inspect regularly items of concern like say the lock nut on the APE tensioner, if tightened it wont undo as the o-ring tends to work like a vibration dampener with the design they have. I wanted to make sure mine were installed perfectly & honestly trust them more than the standard tensioner & without the chain slapping the standard tensioner tended to do now & then with mine even when tensioners new the bike runs better all the time as timing doesn't change a degree or 2 now & then.

no problems with the 5th gen 8)

without the chain slapping the standard tensioner tended to do now & then with mine even when tensioners new the bike runs better all the time as timing doesn't change a degree or 2 now & then.

Does that really even happen? Like, folks have measured the valve timing change from varying tension?

Does that really even happen? Like, folks have measured the valve timing change from varying tension?

It shouldn't happen at all as the standard tensioner isn't meant to be able to back off from my understanding (reason to back off you need to use custom tool to unload), yet it works on oil pressure & spring tension to load cam chain. It seems as standard tensioner spring weakens or some other fault they don't apply enough tension which is when people replace them so there must be an allowed amount of movement they can return. I haven't really dismantled one to find out exact working but you only need cams to be out a little to effect timing even if just so very slightly, granted under load the chain should always have tension drive side. I had a friend that had one cam one tooth out & bike would run ok but in certain conditions run badly (dealer stuffed it up on valve service & bike had to go to another mech to diagnose the fault). I have noticed my bike since fitting fixed tensioners seems to run perfect all the time, when before there were times it would seem to be playing up intermittently.

Edit: Kaldek I believe is referring to me, and he has hasn't exactly been correct with his statement. It's not that the lock/jam nut came loose, it was 100% my fault as I didn't lock it down to begin with. And even this didn't "destroy" my engine, as it is still running just fine, but with just some new parts.

OK, so my memory wasn't spot on and "destroyed" is a relative term (based on the victim's willingness to pay for repairs). But still, the auto CCTs don't have the problem so I guess my point is that you're trading a noise for a potential expensive failure. Can you recall what the total repair cost was for your bike after the valves bent?

I'm thinking I spent around $230 for two valves, guides (which I didn't use), valve seals, cam chain, cam gear, all associated gaskets, and overnight shipping. It then took me less than a day to make the bike go from a parallel twin back to a V-four. I rode the bike around the block (about 1/2 a mile) then loaded the bike with all the hard bags and took it on a 3-day trip which included the track day in which I got this picture. I'm confident that there was never an issue with the APE piece, it was all my fault.


[image: IMGX3443.JPG]
IMGX3443.JPG

no problems with the 5th gen 8)

YEAH BABY! Gear driven all the way!