What's This Noise? How Do I Fix It? 2010 Vfr800

I've been chasing a noise from the engine since I bought the bike about a month ago

• It does not make the noise when it's cold (Video 1)

• It makes the noise once the engine is warm (video 2)

• It's connected with the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor in some way because when I disconnect the vacuum tube to the MAP, the noise disappears.

Any ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions? Heeeeelp!

Jeff

Video 1

[image: Attached File]  2015-02-04VFREngineNoise 007.MOV   14.35MB   46 downloads

Video 2

[image: Attached File]  2015-02-04VFREngineNoise 011.MOV   75.72MB   44 downloads

Fixed. Not the MAP sensor at all.

Disconnecting the PAIR valve solenoid made the noise go away and it also fixed the snatchy throttle.

Thanks to Mohawk for getting me back on track.

Sounds like a solenoid closing, does it still have the PAIR system installed ? If yes, look for a 1/2" hose on outside of airbox base, it was front left on 5th gen, then moved to rear of airbox I think on 6th gen. Find the solenoid that controls the PAIR & remove the power see if noise goes away. The other solenoid is the Flapper actuator in the airbox lid, that would also make a similar noise.

Sounds like a solenoid closing, does it still have the PAIR system installed ? If yes, look for a 1/2" hose on outside of airbox base, it was front left on 5th gen, then moved to rear of airbox I think on 6th gen. Find the solenoid that controls the PAIR & remove the power see if noise goes away. The other solenoid is the Flapper actuator in the airbox lid, that would also make a similar noise.

Hi Mohawk

Thanks for your info. I blocked the PAIR system and the FLAPPER and there was no difference, the noise was still there.

I've decided to follow this back through the MAP sensor and to buy a new one.  Gulp! $AU257 from my favourite store in Ireland, Moto Toro.

Then I discovered this site in China. It's so cheap it doesn't matter if it's not the problem. I'm sure I read somewhere that this is the world's largest Internet selling site and it's made the owner a US$ billionaire.

Thanks again

Jeff

Jeff, the tapping sound sounds very familiar to what I've been hearing with mine.

http://www.vfrdiscus...t-end-progress/

Is it the change in engine tone you're referring too or the bleeping sound that occurs inbetween?

Jeff, the tapping sound sounds very familiar to what I've been hearing with mine.

http://www.vfrdiscus...t-end-progress/

Is it the change in engine tone you're referring too or the bleeping sound that occurs inbetween?

Hi Adamv

At last! someone with the same problem.  That is exactly the same sound that I'm getting: a clacking sound opening and closing the throttle.

I also have terrible surging when I open the throttle, particularly after a downhill run and I open the throttle again. So yes to both of your questions. It seems that the change in engine tone (it sounds like the engine is starving for air or fuel) is what's causing my throttle problems.

I'm convinced the starting point for fixing this problem is the MAP sensor because when I disabled it, the sounds went away (I ignored the flashing FI light) (Actually, the sounds didn't go away. I'd messed something up, came to a wrong conclusion,  and then went off on a tangent.  

I've ordered a new one from China and I'll see what happens. It may or may not be the problem but it's still the starting point - and it's cheap and easy.

I'm working on the old computer principle of garbage in-garbage out.  I'm hoping to convince myself that the inputs are garbage and that the ECU is OK.

I have a very old, very big, oscilloscope up in the roof of my house (it's so old that it still has vacuum tubes).  I intend getting it down and scoping the inputs to see what they read before and after changing things.

If you learn anything, please post here. This is not a very common problem by the looks (or sound) of it. Just noticed you live in OZ. Is it Sydney? Perhaps we could put our heads together.

I'm not sure if I have the exact same problem. I haven't noticed any surging issues with my bike. My bike seems to function fine, with the exception of this sound at low revs. (If it wasn't for the odd sound, I wouldn't know anything was wrong).

According to the workshop manual (credit to Auspanglish for putting me onto this: http://www.vfrdiscus...e-3#entry980309 )

... this value should not be operating until mid range.

I'm still a little confused, as apparently it should also not operate when the bike is in Neutral either, however I still get that sound.

I'm trying to figure out why:

- It occurs in Neutral when it shouldn't

- It occurs at low revs when it shouldn't

- it only occurs after the bike has warmed up (above 70°c).

- It appears to occur (after last nights test) after I remove the vacuum hose from the Variable Air Intake Port.  (Although last nights test the sound was much quieter than it has been previously, so I've got a slight bit of doubt that I may have been hearing something else due to my tinnitus, so this I need to go back and recheck again).

Regardless I'll be very interested to hear how you go with your MAP sensor, because if this fixes the issue I'll try it out myself.

[image: MHSGig1l.jpg]

Edit: PS - I live in OZ, but Vic, not NSW. Maybe this issue is unique to Australia - it can't handle our air. :-)

Hi Adam

My first thought when I heard this sound was that it was the flapper valve (Variable Air Intake valve - 12). So I plugged the vacuum line and it didn't  make any difference; the noise was exactly the same.

My understanding of the way the flapper valve works is: 

• With the engine off, spring tension holds the valve open.

• When the engine starts the valve remains open

• Put the engine in gear and the  Bypass control solenoid valve - 14 directs vacuum to the flapper valve and it shuts.

• The flapper valve then stays shut  until the RPM reaches 5000 at which time the Bypass control solenoid -14 shuts off  the vacuum and the flapper valve opens again.

It has nothing to do with engine temperature.

To me, our noises sound the same and it's definitely related to coolant temperature.

When I removed the air box cover and ran the engine cold with the air-filter removed, there was no noise.

However, when the engine warmed up, about °70, I could clearly hear the noise coming from within the engine.

The reason for this that the engine has to reach 70° before the Engine Coolant Temperature valve - 24  sends a signal to the MAP sensor - 14 at which time the noise starts big time.  Up until then, it's as though an electronic choke is on.

Could I recommend (ask?) that you remove the air box cover and the filter?  Let the engine reach 70° and when you do this, you might find that, (if we have the same problem) there is no doubt where the noise is coming from.  Choke on no noise - choke off big noise.

There is a great diagram on page 5-6 of the manual that shows how all the bits work together. The component numbers I've used are from this diagram.

Regards

Jeff

PS: I've got tinnitus too. Hate it. According to the quacks, that's it, can't do a thing about it.  I just got a hearing aid for one ear but apparently it needs two to produce the white noise to  drown it out.

Also, picture of your bike?

Hi Jeff,

I think you're onto something there. My noise is completely absent up until above 70°c as well. It occurs in Neutral as well as gear, and like yours occurred when I plugged the vacuum line.

As for removing stuff - I actually had a mate help me out just to plug the vacuum hose - I am really hopeless when it comes to mechanics, but if I can get someone to assist that's comfortable with it - I'll let you know, but after a few months, I'm as convinced as a non-mechanic can be that it's related to both temperature and throttle control.

Mines a 2009 model.

http://www.vfrdiscus...7290_536577.jpg

Yeah! That's what I reckon as well: temperature and throttle control - both are inputs to the MAP sensor.

I love your bike.  Black really works.

Regards

Jeff

Sounds like a solenoid closing, does it still have the PAIR system installed ? If yes, look for a 1/2" hose on outside of airbox base, it was front left on 5th gen, then moved to rear of airbox I think on 6th gen. Find the solenoid that controls the PAIR & remove the power see if noise goes away. The other solenoid is the Flapper actuator in the airbox lid, that would also make a similar noise.

After chasing the MAP sensor for quite some time I convinced my self that it was OK.

I then disabled the circuit to the PAIR Valve solenoid and the noise went away.

My first attempt at disabling the PAIR system was by blocking a tube and this did nothing.  Wrong conclusion led me in the wrong direction for some time.

Thanks for your help.