Fork rebuilding with new valves and springs & Shock replacement

Well after reading all the positive result comments on upgrading the viffer's stock cartridge fork internals, I coughed up some dough to Jamie Daugherty for a complete fork kit and a re-built shock. I will just discuss the fork work here for now. sorry if it is a bit wordy, i will add some picks later.

After filling out the order forms, anticipating how great my new suspension is going to work,  and waiting impatiently for the goodies to arrive...... which they finally did....I am now in the middle of the process.

Being a do-it-yerselfer, and stubborn, i figured that after watching some you-tube, reading lots of forum discussions, and studying the excellent and detailed instructions that Jamie sent with the parts..  How hard could it be??  One wise guy on the forum says: "just send your forks to Jamie, drink a beer on the couch while he does the magic, and enjoy....."  that is not bad advice, but it now where near as much fun as getting out all your own tools, maybe buying a couple new ones, and digging in.

I had never even looked inside of a motorcycle fork until two nights ago, but now i have had some up close looks. I have gotten through the hard part, i think, i have the forks completely dis-assembled, and almost ready to install all the pretty new internals.... almost.

Tip #1: If you want to do this your self, it isnt too bad, just be patient... but if i were to start over, the first thing i would do is take the forks off and go straight to a mechanic or friend who has a high quality pneumatic tool kit to spin out the pesky bolts from the bottom of the fork slider that hold the bottom compression valve assembly. I mentioned i am stubborn. I saw lots of vids and read comments that noted removal of these with simple hand tools, other peeps commented that the cartridge might spin.....  hmmmmm how hard could it be??

The left bolt came out easy, no problem. I smiled and thought this will be easy.. ha ha.. The bolt in the bottom of the right fork leg was very stuck in the cartridge, and it just spun and spun and spun... ugh..  I tried all the tricks i could find, and even went to the Honda shop where they put the high speed impact wrench to it.. No love, they didn't get it out either.. I am not certain but I suspect that if I had not first spun it with the hand wrench, using the impact tool first probably would have removed it.. who knows. its history now.

So........... I had to drill the bolt out. it was a tedious process but I got it done. I used a bit just a fuzz larger than the shank of the bolt, (which i could measure cuz i luckily already got the other one out) Since i had already gotten the cartridge spinning, the bolt head initially spun with the drill bit! Gah! So i drove in a couple short pieces of ss bicycle spokes between the bolt head and the housing to wedge it, That worked. I drilled through the cap screw head without enlarging the hole on the slider. When done i had the hollowed out bolt head and the copper washer on my drill bit, but the cartridge assemebly was now free! The rest of the un-do work is a cinch, (especially with Jaimies instructions)

So after sliding the bottom valve body out of the cartridge tube, the threaded stud of the bolt remains in it. It is stuck tight too! 

The bad, or maybe not so bad...the afore mentioned almost part... Now i am going to replace the fork seals because i have metal drill shavings inside the fork tubes and i can see no way to be certain they are completely cleaned out without doing that..I had never had any seal leaks so i wasn't initially going to do that, so that will be one extra step, the fork has 36000 miles and is an '08 so i figure it is just good maintenance, anyway! That and a new cap screw and couple new copper washers, and i will be ready to reassemble.

More to come soon! I will try to get a few pics too, Cheers!

Edit 5.15.16  added shock replacement to the thread.

Had a somewhat identical issue (see my earleir VFR topic), with one bolt coming out no problemo but the other.....

You said you tried every trick in the book; does that include taking a broom stick and making one round end into a tapered square with a saw and tapping it gently into the top of the damper rod?  That did the trick for me eventually; eventually because I had to tap in the wooden stick a bit firmer until it gripped enough. Holding de stick with one hand and the allen key the other it came loose.

and back in in reverse with torque wrench no problemo.

You are not alone Jimbob in being stubborn, you have a virtual brother in me :-0

I have to admit I am of the mind of the chap who recommended letting Jamie do it. :-)  Really keen to see how you have made out.  Nothing but admiration for those with the stubborn and dedicated streak to do on their own.

Cheers

Dave

Haha thanks for the great comments guys.

Dutchie as far as broomsticks go my girlfriend is in charge of those and I can't fly them. But I did find a piece of PVC pipe that seemed to fit into the top of the cartridge below. it's stuck tight but still I couldn't remove the bolt.

The forks stansion and slider parts are getting new seals and bushings I should have them back for the reassembly tomorrow.

Film at eleven.

Those dang cartridge bolts can be a real curse; I think you are right that an impact driver would have shifted the stuck one from the start. The best way to get a little tension on them is to pull up on the full extended fork leg, which pushes the compression valve body down onto the circlip that retains it, but that is all you can do. Probably the bolt has some Loctite on it that won't let go.

When you get the cartridge out, you will be able to slip the oil lock piece off the end, and then push the cut bolt and compression valve  into the cartridge and remove the circlip, that will allow the compression valve and the cut bolt to come right out, and you can sit that in a vice to work on getting the rest of the bolt out. If you pull off the o-ring the rest is all metal and some heat can be used. I'd try vicegrips on the cut bolt first, or hacksaw a cut into the end that will take a screwdriver.

Before you reassemble the parts - run a thread tap through the compression valve and make sure the threads are nice and clean, and be very sparing with any Loctite that you use. 

BTW fitting new bushings was probably a good move in any case. 

I've rebuilt the forks on all my bikes and I'm pretty familiar with the procedure, happy to advise if you have any questions.

The best trick I've heard (and used) is to leave the fork tube completely assembled, clamp it to a workbench so you can apply good pressure on the bolt, and use a cheapo $50 Harbor Freight electric impact wrench. The internal fork spring pressure will reduce the amount of cartridge spin and the bang-bang action of the impact wrench will loosen the bolt. Even if you never use the impact wrench again the $50 is worth it.

if only we had $50 bang bang electric impact wrenches here....    :-(

Parts are finally all undone.

Note the bolt stud remains in the old valve. I even put it in a vise and tried visgrips... it is pretty dang stuck.

I feel like sending it to Honda and asking WTF??

Fortunately i have new valves in the kit from Daugherty so i dont really care right now.

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I sent my forks and rear shock to JD.  Yep.  I'm a pu$$y  :comp13:   That beer tasted mighty fine though :beer:

One word of advice:  Take the bike to the suspension shop once you're done tinkering and ask them to set it up for ya - Sag, compression, rebound, etc...  I did and not regretting.

I got the shock installed! I have to say that great credit is due to contributors to this forum for shining light into the dark catacomb tunnels of the amateur shade tree mechanic.

After rooting around in 6th gen threads...  and in suspension threads ..... i found this hidden gem the tail end of this has a succinct description that worked wonders....

I managed to drop the old shock out in about and hour or so.. I would just add that in addition to these instructions...raising up or removing the fuel tank is a simple step that makes the in and out process a bit easier..

I copy and paste here for your convenience: also adding some edits based on my experience

I am again grateful to the members of VFRD for the depth and breadth of knowledge. I completed the swap of the shock this afternoon with only 1 additional run to the hardware store. 

 Additional steps if you do not remove the rear cowl and exhaust (ala baileyrock and Duc2v4):

If I do it again in the near future

Removal and replacing a 6th gen shock:

- Remove rear wheel

- remove upper shock bolt - (remove the fuel tank or at least raise the rear of the tank to make this easier)

- remove lower shock bolt

- jack up swingarm - almost all the way up ( be sure to have the bike stabilized, a piece of wood under the center stand would help for more access)

- remove dogbone top bolt

- remove dogbone ( keep track of the orientation of these pieces... haha.. or you will be looking for picture on the web of how it goes)

- remove shock, (it comes right out with just a bit of wriggling)

- install the new bracket to the top of the replacement shock and properly torque the bolt.... 

- replace shock- (be carefull of the orientation if you have a new shock with a remote reservoir cuz the hose and connections will have to be out to the left side once you get it in you cant just spin it around..  this took some patience and manipulation of the swing arm height.)

- reinstall upper shock bolt - loosely ( using this nut on top you can raise and lower the shock to get the lower linkage holes to align easier)

I would add that if not in a big hurry at this point: inspect, clean and grease all the bushings. 

- reinstall dogbone

- reinstall lower shock bolt

- lower swingarm to align top dogbone bolt - almost all the way down

- tighten up all bolts (check the torque specs)

- replace rear wheel

- reinstall all misc bits...

Only tools I used were pretty much

14mm Combo wrench

17mm combo wrench

14mm Socket

17mm Deep Socket

5mm Hex head (it is an 8mm that pulls the dogbone pivot bolt)

Opinion.... the length of the top bolt on the new bracket that came with my shock seemed to make installation tough.. but maybe you need that to adjust it slowly up to get the linkage plate bolt holes to align, dunno . when i was all done there was about an inch more thread exposed at tge top than the factory piece.

It took me about 4 hours to get the old one out and the new one in, it would be way more fun and easier to have a helper assist with jacking the swing arm and reaching around with wrenches and sockets etc etc..

I hope this proves helpful for other stubbon do-it- yerselfers! I will add a few anecdotes on the fork work when i finish that up. the forks are still at the shop getting new seals and bushings.

Picture of the product!

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jimbob, 5/13/2016 at 2:53 AM

Parts are finally all undone.

Note the bolt stud remains in the old valve. I even put it in a vise and tried visgrips... it is pretty dang stuck.

I feel like sending it to Honda and asking WTF??

Fortunately i have new valves in the kit from Daugherty so i dont really care right now.

[image: 20160511_194717.jpg]

I might be wrong (and you are going to hate me for saying this) but I think the new valves you've got from JD will replace the black compression valve in your photo, but you are still going to need that alloy mount that it bolts to, and that the old bolt is stuck in. You can unbolt the compression valve body, and then apply some heat to the stuck part, as I suspect Loctite is the culprit in there.

7 hours ago, jimbob

[image: 20160511_195013_resized.jpg]

[image: 20160514_151356_resized.jpg]

A quick question, how do you access the preload adjuster on the new shock? From the other side? Picture from the RHS would be interesting. Cheers

It is done! Forks went all back together and installed.  Even did a short test ride.. pics and commentary soon.

dfh, 5/16/2016 at 6:19 PM

A quick question, how do you access the preload adjuster on the new shock? From the other side? Picture from the RHS would be interesting. Cheers

 It looks like adjusting the rear preload will be a bit of a PITA! I will experiment and report back

Here are the new fork internals from Daugherty Motorsports.

The new compression valve body has a threaded recess for the fork bolt which is about 1/4" shallower that the OEM piece, which presents a challenge, since it will not seat tightly and seal against the slider housing unless you cut the bolt shorter or get a new bolt. Once i discovered this variance I bought an after market hardware store bolt for the right fork leg and cut down the bolt for the left one. The recess for the bolt head is deeper on the right side due to the shoulder son the axle. The oem bolt head is low profile and must be used on the left side, so i cut it down and chased the threads.

After plenty of tinkering around i got it all put together....  once again the cartridge tried to spin on me and prevent the fork bolt from tightening properly, but i came up with a fix that worked,, so if you try this and get stymied, pm me. I will talk you through it.

[image: 20160511_194920_resized.jpg]

The new cockpit view of the fully a adjustable fork valving, and a cool new sticker!

A short test ride has already shown great improvement in the amount of front end fork dive (or lack there of) on hard braking.  I have not yet had a chance to thoroughly test ride the shock yet but i look forward to doing so...

I will post more results when i have them............

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Surprised JDR would supply incorrect hardware with his kit.  did you contact him?

Sent an email to JD.   New fork bolts for the bottom valves were not provided in the kit of parts... another good reason to just drink a beer or two while you have your forks assembled at the shop by experts..   :beer: . It's done now.  Stubbornness prevailed!

Hi Ed,

You have a set of JD's internals/caps?

The new suspenders on the viffer got a good 250 mile thrashing yesterday on the hilly curvy chattery chipseal pavements of northeast washington and idaho. I am very pleased with the much improved composure of the bike especially in situations of trail braking into lumpy bends at pace. Front end dive is gone and line stability feels much sharper.  I have to say that i am satisfied with the performance of the components. Some more fine tuning will probably make it even better. Thanks again to those on this forum that have shared tips and insights.

This is really cool stuff.  Jim, have to ask, would you say the ride is much harsher, in comparison to the performance gains?  I want to upgrade but don't want to jeopardize the ride,,,,too much.  :-)

Dave

dgordon, 5/31/2016 at 5:41 PM

This is really cool stuff.  Jim, have to ask, would you say the ride is much harsher, in comparison to the performance gains?  I want to upgrade but don't want to jeopardize the ride,,,,too much.  :-)

Dave

Dave, in my non-techie opinion, the ride is firmer but not harsh. I weigh about 175#, a bit more kitted up. I think the factory suspension is designed for a rider of about 150#. To me the front end felt mushy and the forks would compress way to much under braking, and the old shock would bounce a bit at times. A lot of my riding is with the factory luggage in place and camp gear lashed on for multi day forays into the lumpy rural roads of the pacific northwest. 

The new components include springs which are rated for my weight and riding. The adjustable valving that controls the damping is also tuned accordingly. My description would be that is not a plush ride, but firm, smooth, and controlled..  After one good hard ride with no additional gear on the bike i found it to be a noticeable improvement. I am anxious to get loaded up and ride for a few days with all my gear on the bike. I hope to do that in mid-June, and will report back after that.

I hope that helps....

Jim

Jim, that is awesome and thank you.

jimbob, 5/15/2016 at 10:47 AM

I got the shock installed! I have to say that great credit is due to contributors to this forum for shining light into the dark catacomb tunnels of the amateur shade tree mechanic.

After rooting around in 6th gen threads...  and in suspension threads ..... i found this hidden gem the tail end of this has a succinct description that worked wonders....

I managed to drop the old shock out in about and hour or so.. I would just add that in addition to these instructions...raising up or removing the fuel tank is a simple step that makes the in and out process a bit easier..

I copy and paste here for your convenience: also adding some edits based on my experience

I am again grateful to the members of VFRD for the depth and breadth of knowledge. I completed the swap of the shock this afternoon with only 1 additional run to the hardware store. 

 Additional steps if you do not remove the rear cowl and exhaust (ala baileyrock and Duc2v4):

ower swingarm to align top dogbone bolt - almost all the way down....

[image: shock.jpg.1e62c13c3deea7ba411f06c6ecba2cfb.jpg][image: swingarm.jpg.56b9cb98841a7844c03f72d53383c509.jpg]

I'm doing the Daughtery suspension upgrade, same as jimbob and many others. The guidance here in this thread and a couple others has been invaluable. Still, I cannot get the new shock back in following jimbob's outline of the steps. The process for dropping the old shock out via jacking up the swingarm works like a champ. But the remote reservoir on the new shock spoils any easy reversibility.

Since it's not possible (as far as I know) to torque down the top bolt bracket (B) once the shock is in place. It needs to be torqued on the bench, then installed. This means that the top bolt, the remote reservoir (A) and the reservoir's protruding junction (C) all need to get jammed back into a channel not designed to accommodate all of them. Plus, the reservoir needs to be threaded out over the chain guard so that it can be mounted to the subframe (D). But when we have the swingarm jacked up all the way, the clearance (E) is nowhere near sufficient. So, it's necessary to jam everything in with the swingarm up, then try to lower the swingarm so the reservoir can be threaded out over the chainguard. But the swingarm doesn't want to lower now that there's a wad of shock stuffed halfway in.

I'm wondering if anybody else has been able to replicate jimbob's success with this approach and if they have any additional guidance. Otherwise I'm going to need to accept rhoderage's words of discouragement here:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/81496-daugherty-front-and-rear-suspension-install

...when he warned:

"You WILL need to take off the exhaust and undertail tray. Get over it."

Hey Rob.

I bet if you let it sit for a day and get a pal to help you jack the swing arm up and down a bit you will get it in...  I was able to thread the remote reservoir up through first and then get the rest of the shock body in there.. then the longish tread section on top seems too long,..... i thought about cutting a quarter inch off it to make it easier, but was afraid of that permanent change.. ha ha.. as it turned out it would have been fine... at least the way it all fit up on my 6th gen..   And as i recall, i think the access to to tighten the top nut is under the tank, under the rubber flapper thing..  Just take your time it will work..

Cheers!

RobF, 5/13/2017 at 6:44 PM

[image: shock.jpg.1e62c13c3deea7ba411f06c6ecba2cfb.jpg][image: swingarm.jpg.56b9cb98841a7844c03f72d53383c509.jpg]

I'm doing the Daughter suspension upgrade, same as jimbob and many others. The guidance here in this thread and a couple others has been invaluable. Still, I cannot get the new shock back in following jimbob's outline of the steps. The process for dropping the old shock out via jacking up the swingarm works like a champ. But the remote reservoir on the new shock spoils any easy reversibility.

Since it's not possible (as far as I know) to torque down the top bolt bracket (B) once the shock is in place. It needs to be torqued on the bench, then installed. This means that the top bolt, the remote reservoir (A) and the reservoir's protruding junction (C) all need to get jammed back into a channel not designed to accommodate all of them. Plus, the reservoir needs to be threaded out over the chain guard so that it can be mounted to the subframe (D). But when we have the swingarm jacked up all the way, the clearance (E) is nowhere near sufficient. So, it's necessary to jam everything in with the swingarm up, then try to lower the swingarm so the reservoir can be threaded out over the chainguard. But the swingarm doesn't want to lower now that there's a wad of shock stuffed halfway in.

I'm wondering if anybody else has been able to replicate jimbob's success with this approach and if they have any additional guidance. Otherwise I'm going to need to accept rhoderage's words of discouragement here:

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/81496-daugherty-front-and-rear-suspension-install

...when he warned:

"You WILL need to take off the exhaust and undertail tray. Get over it."

Did you get it done?? How is it working???

10 hours ago, jimbob

Did you get it done?? How is it working???

You are kind to inquire. The project is currently stalled. I hassled with it for a couple hours but simply was not able to replicate your success at threading the needle. I'm pretty much committed to removing the exhaust at this point. Waiting for a spare weekend in order to take another swing.

Rob, I'm with you brother.  This is precisely what would happen to me.  Stay the course and make your ride what you want it to be.  I really want to do this setup and it just sounds aces.  

Dave.