I upgraded my suspension recently and it was done by Daugherty Motorsports. I went for the full rebuild/re-valve/re-spring for both front forks and OEM rear shock. Today I just returned from a 200 mile ride in the mountains to test it out. It's hard to contain my enthusiasm but I will try. The transformation was phenomenal! Let me try to explain as best as I can.
My bike has over 42k miles on its stock suspension. I consider myself a semi-aggressive rider in the twisties of SoCal, and I mostly ride for sport, commuting, with the occasional touring. But most times I'm pretty much riding at a brisk pace. I'm not an expert rider but I'm well beyond intermediate.
So here is my assessment BEFORE the upgrade:
The last 20k miles my '07's suspension has been pretty vague and bouncy. There has been very little front end feedback when cornering. If I hit a medium size bump, the bike sort of changed its line. Bigger bumps had the suspension cycling up and down a couple of times before it settled. There was plenty of brake dive, and even backing off the throttle has the front fork diving. I've been able to "ride through them" so to speak because I know the bike so well. But knowing how it reacted to aggressive riding, road imperfections, and fore and aft movement from braking or decelerating/acceleration, I ended up backing off the pace because the bike just didn't give me ANY confidence when road conditions were less than ideal.
AFTER the upgrade:
First thing I noticed was how firm the suspension was. The next thing I noticed was how it was able to absorb bumps, dips, or sharp road imperfections without being jarring! Brake dive from deceleration is now notably absent. Slowing into a corner and accelerating out of a corner, the bike was stable as a rock and went where I pointed it. Turn in is much smoother and accurate and took less effort. I took the bike on the most bumpy and twisty road I know, while chasing down OOTV and a couple of other pretty fast guys. It was like riding a totally different bike as far as ride and handling was concerned! Thanks to that accurate steering, I could place the bike exactly where I want and flick it into a turn. Bumps, dips, or sharp potholes never upset the bike. I hit some pretty nasty pavement while leaned over and I was halfway expecting the bike to go squirmy under me but nope! Never did. At the end of the ride I realized I was going much faster with less effort and less worry. I scrubbed the edges of my rear tire and didn't even realize I had done so! In a word: confidence inspiring! By the way, this after a straight up install. I haven't even fiddled much with the spring preload and rebound damping! The BEST modification I've ever done on any bike!
If you're on the fence on doing this suspension mod on your VFR, I highly recommend getting off that fence and just do it! You have no idea how crappy that stock suspension is on your VFR until you experience a high quality suspension upgrade! LOL! I knew mine wasn't great and it just got worse and worse with mileage. I had no idea how good it could be on my VFR until now.
Auggius, I did pretty much everything on that website link on mine. I believe most of the internals are new: springs, valves, the complete fork kit, seals, etc. I sent my rear shock and front forks to Jaime and he did everything for me. I simply bolted the parts back on my bike.
Rogue, can I ask. How the heck do you ship this stuff to Jamie? I ask as the forks are long and with the rear shock there's weight there for the shipping cost. I am asking as this is something I am keen to do also. :-) Great review too!
Auggius, I did pretty much everything on that website link on mine. I believe most of the internals are new: springs, valves, the complete fork kit, seals, etc. I sent my rear shock and front forks to Jaime and he did everything for me. I simply bolted the parts back on my bike.
I've got an Ohlins shock plus Race Tech springs & gold valves in the forks but I don't have the bump absorbing properties while leaned over. There's always a couple cycles of up/down before the chassis settles down. Like you, I've learned to ride through it. Sometimes it's better that I don't know about what's coming so I don't "do" anything about it. Guess I better start saving my $$.
Rogue, can I ask. How the heck do you ship this stuff to Jamie? I ask as the forks are long and with the rear shock there's weight there for the shipping cost. I am asking as this is something I am keen to do also. :-) Great review too!
Thanks
Dave
You just have to use a box that is long enough to house the forks with some room at the top and bottom for cushioning material (foam or large bubble wrap or both), and wide enough to put the shock in between them. You wrap all three items in thick bubble wrap, line the ends with foam or lots of paper, tape it up and you're set. UPS charged me $40 with insurance to ship from Southern California to Indiana, USA. Most important is that none of them move around inside that box and they have a good amount of cushioning material. My package weighed about 30 lbs.
I've got an Ohlins shock plus Race Tech springs & gold valves in the forks but I don't have the bump absorbing properties while leaned over. There's always a couple cycles of up/down before the chassis settles down. Like you, I've learned to ride through it. Sometimes it's better that I don't know about what's coming so I don't "do" anything about it. Guess I better start saving my $$.
Auggius, it's that up and down cycling of the suspension that I do NOT miss at all.
Flick the bike into a corner and it's settled immediately. Hit bumps while leaned over, you feel the bumps and imperfections, but the bike maintains your chosen line and it never got jarring or harsh. The result is I see the bumps before they hit but I kind of say: Bring it on! LOL! That's how it felt today and trust me, I purposely took the bike on this one road that everyone know is crap full of bumps, dips, cracks, and tar snakes because it hadn't been repaved in 15+ years! On my old suspension I would go down this same road and just cringed knowing where the worst of the surface was.
I've just installed my DMr rear shock on my 6th gen and am very happy to have it in.; well worth the money. I went away on a non-motorcycle holiday shortly after getting it installed but I plan on putting some real miles on it now.
It cost me a total of $1k for everything. Front and rear, DMr's labor to put the suspension together, and shipping in both directions.
I looked around and compared to what's available out there. I priced out a full Racetech "conversion" using their parts and having a local shop do the work. With their parts & labor (excluding suspension installation on my bike) came out to just $1k. That's rebuilding my existing suspension only.
But what that price does NOT include is the experience working with VFR suspension that DMr has. Then there are the actual real world experience of VFR owners who have used DMr's products and services who are 100% happy. I could not match that at any price locally here in Southern California. I honestly was afraid they would screw something up or have the wrong spring rates, etc. because they were not familiar with VFR's.
I'd like to actually ride someone's 6th Gen with a Racetech conversion just to see if there's a difference!
I need my wife to read this. I am dying to redo my suspension and DMr is what I have been looking into. I rarely ride solo anymore. It's almost all 2 up commuting and touring with some spirited weekend day rides. The stock suspension can keep up with 2 of us and the gear we bring. I have known that for a while. Wife looks at it as a performance upgrade but I see it as a safety upgrade.
I need my wife to read this. I am dying to redo my suspension and DMr is what I have been looking into. I rarely ride solo anymore. It's almost all 2 up commuting and touring with some spirited weekend day rides. The stock suspension can keep up with 2 of us and the gear we bring. I have known that for a while. Wife looks at it as a performance upgrade but I see it as a safety upgrade.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I just did it and then told the wife why I did it! I actually bought a used ABS model OEM shock and had it rebuilt by DMr, so that way I can adjust the sag when either solo or with pillion and not have to break out the tool kit. I think what helped with the lack of "flack" I received about doing it, is that when we took a trip with the stock suspension and having a "bouncy" ride and then she got on again after the upgrade, she was actually very happy I did it.
So maybe, set your bike up so that the ride is horrible and then take her for a ride (being cognizant that you can't push it) and maybe she'll agree that it's time to up date. Then it'll be a joint decision. Win, win for everyone!
I need my wife to read this. I am dying to redo my suspension and DMr is what I have been looking into... Wife looks at it as a performance upgrade but I see it as a safety upgrade.
This is making me laugh a little bit because I'm in a similar situation. I have committed myself to doing the full Daugherty suspension upgrade this winter but, like you, have a strong sense that dropping yet another $1K on the bike is likely to meet with problematic levels of spousal displeasure.
It looks like you're committed to the high road: making an honest pitch on safety merits. Myself, I'm strongly leaning toward the low road: attempting to bury the expense in an inky cloud of transactional noise and then hoping she doesn't notice. I'm thinking of asking JD if I can make small weekly payments (like layaway days of old) in order to avoid having a four-alarm, quarrel-triggering shop bill hit the credit card. Also, I'm going to ask JD to set up a shell company and then bill those weekly installments as either [OREGON ORGANIC LUNCHES] or maybe [GOODHUSBAND.COM - ONLINE COURSEWORK].
I laid it all out for her this morning. I softened her up with a foot massage and some sex, and then after breakfast I started. "I need to do some maintenance on the motorcycle". Then I explained all the reasons it was necessary and she just said "okay, I guess if we need to do it then do it". Freaking awesome!
I already completed the work order form. Can't wait!
I laid it all out for her this morning. I softened her up with a foot massage and some sex, and then after breakfast I started. "I need to do some maintenance on the motorcycle". Then I explained all the reasons it was necessary and she just said "okay, I guess if we need to do it then do it". Freaking awesome!
I already completed the work order form. Can't wait!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sometimes a little softening up goes a long way! Me, I just keep a "play account" tied to my PayPal account and put money in here and there. I get away with a lot more that way!
I laid it all out for her this morning. I softened her up with a foot massage and some sex, and then after breakfast I started. "I need to do some maintenance on the motorcycle". Then I explained all the reasons it was necessary and she just said "okay, I guess if we need to do it then do it". Freaking awesome!
I already completed the work order form. Can't wait!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Some wives are reasonable and that's why you married them. LOL!
Keep in mind one thing, when I ordered mine I specified "fast sport rider" and DMr sent me a rear shock that raised the rear about an inch, maybe 1.5". So it was a bit awkward at first stopping at a light but I quickly got used to being on the balls of my feet now. The 6th gen has a wide midsection and I'm only 5'8" with a 30" inseam. But the bike sure steers quick!
I also got to ride my bike a bit more in the canyons and mountains, and now have about 400 miles on the new suspension. I dialed down the rebound damping at both ends...about one rotation from Soft in the rear (about halfway between hard and soft), and 2 rotations from Soft up front on the forks. Haven't touched the spring preload and don't expect to at this point. The suspension is more compliant now and there is about an inch of sag, but barely. But man! I hit some very big bumps on this sport ride, the kind that would kick me off the seat on the OEM suspension. On the DMr, the bike just soaked it all up! I also rode aggressively trying to chase down Duc2V4 and another 6th Gen rider and that extra ground clearance from the raised rear was VERY nice to have. I had to hit the brakes hard on a few decreasing radius corners going downhill and having minimal brake dive helped.....A LOT. Made the bike just easier to throw around than before. When I hit the apex of a corner I can do it much quicker, and lean it just where I want it to and the bike settles into that corner right away. It's very nice to be able to do that and know the bike will consistently remain where I expect it to be. I think I reached my limit way before the bike's suspension did. I really do feel like I'm riding a new, sportbike!
Did the Dmr front and rear 2 years ago. I bought his fork kit and put it in myself. Great step by step complete with preload settings based on my weight and type of riding. I have a CBR1k with Ohlins and a fully setup 800 Ducati that I race. Both bikes have great suspensions, but my VFR feels just as good!
Finished installing the rear shock tonight. What a pain in the butt! I don't exactly know what I finally did right. I think it was lowering and raising the swing arm several times but I finally got it lined up. Trying to do the forks tomorrow or the day after. I hear they are easier then the rear shock.
Awesome. Stripped the bolt on the right leg trying to get it out. Yay. Guess this is on hold for a while. Tried cracking it loose while forks where on the bike to keep it all from moving. Left side went perfect. Right didn't budge. Time to order a new bolt and wait for the email from Jamie.
Yep Jamie did the front and he talked to Penske for the shock I needed/ wanted, I figure why hold back now. Rear shock was a breeze, with the rear wheel off with a jack on the swing arm, also took the lower tripe link off. gave it a good cleaning and fresh grease. Bingo, the front wasn't so bad either, while Jamie had the forks this gave me time to clean it all up underneath. Now with 2000 miles behind me with this set up. it's wonder why folks ride the vfr the way it is stock. Wow. Talk about rails.
I was hoping to take her out this weekend for a nice long test ride. Going to be on hold. Trying to source another bolt in town tomorrow and see what Jamie says about drilling the bolt out. I can order it for $3 but it's $9.50 to ship and it will take a week I'm sure. Not interested in that. Want this done asap.
It is OK to drill off the bolt head, but you'll still have to fight the rest of the bolt to get it out of the damper assembly, but at least that will be out on a work bench, not buried in the fork. You can push the bottom of the compression valve into the cartridge a little to expose the circlip and then remove that, and the compression valve will slide out of the tube. You can clamp the compression valve body in a vice and apply some heat to free up the Loctite that is holding the bolt in.
That makes sense. I would assume there will be enough bolt left to get vise grips on it if I drill the head off? This is the first time I've tried to remove the forks. I don't know what it all looks like inside.
Oddly, when I had to drill out the bolt on my friends 95 VFR750, once the head was off, the remaining part of the bolt backed out using my fingers! The only logical explanation is the the bolt was frozen against the crush washer and fork leg. Impact drivers will offer the best results but also having good quality tools is a start. If the hex wrench/bit feels loose at all, I would anticipate a stripped bolt.
Those bolts are "half height" socket caps, which means that there isn't the usual amount of bolt material to grip the tool. That, and the bolts' location underneath the forks makes them especially susceptible to head stripping when you're awkwardly trying to loosen them with the forks mounted on the bike. There's no reason to do that, by the way. If you're taking the forks off anyway it is much easier to loosen those bolts with the fork upside down in a vise.
My thinking was with the forks still in the triple I could just break them free easier then when they were off. Clearly this didn't work out as intended.
The good news is that a local dealer had the bolt so I can drill it and continue along. I'm sure hoping it goes back in easier.
My thinking was with the forks still in the triple I could just break them free easier then when they were off. Clearly this didn't work out as intended.
The good news is that a local dealer had the bolt so I can drill it and continue along. I'm sure hoping it goes back in easier.
I see. However, the usual problem with the fork bolts is not that they require Herculean efforts to remove, but that they can spin without loosening once they do start to move. Should you be tempted to stop the spinning by compressing the forks, don't: they need to be extended in order to stop the spinning (or use an air gun).
Auspanglish's Torx driver suggestion is a good one--if you can get one into the bolt head.
Followed Jamie's instructions about drilling it out and all was well. I did the forks following the instructions and all went very smoothly....until I tried to put on the fork caps. Instructions say they should be 15-16 mm apart from the top of tube to the bottom lip of cap. Mine are 1.2". Both of them. Wtf?
I have both of them sitting in my garage next to the sad looking vfr missing it's front legs and an email to Jamie. I followed the directions exactly, I swear. Bit of a bummer.
The length of the extended fork cap/spring is determined by the length of the spacers and the position of preload adjuster. The spacers should be cut so when the fork tube is fully extended the springs are compressed 15 mm or so. If you measure down from top of extended fork to spring (call that A) and also measure bottom of washers up to underside of fork cap where it bears on the top of the tube (call that B), the difference between those (A-B) would give 0 mm preload. So A-B + 15mm should be the spacer length. Set the preload adjusters to 1/2 way before measuring.
Cutting the spacer might be the route this has to go. Jamie had me measure the springs and they are about 1" too long. I am waiting see what he recommends. I don't want to cut something I shouldn't yet. I'm not sure if a spring that is too long will case an issue or not.
Spacers are cheap, so you can cut them up all day long. RaceTech springs used to ship with nice aluminum conduit stock, but anything rigid and the right diameter will do (such as pvc pipe). New spacer material is supplied because the OEM spacers are rarely going to be the correct length for use with aftermarket springs. RaceTech desn't pre-cut the spacers, but the instructions tell you how to measure what length you need..
JZH is absolutely right, if you got new springs, the stock spacers are very unlikely to be the right length. Get some PVC pipe of a similar diameter to the springs/washers, cut to length with a hacksaw and you're done.
Heard back from Jamie and he confirmed what you guys already knew. I needed to cut the spacers. Adjusted them by 55mm and it went back together in no time. I took it for a spin but it's raining and I didn't want to push it. I will give it a proper ride on Wednesday. Thanks for the help guys.
And the results are? I just did my first back roads scratch on my 98 VFR. Not a very settling experience. I have had so much track time that my brain is not used to so many things to look at. Trees, gravel, cows, corners that you can't see all the way through, tractors, gravel, tons of wind, did I mention gravel? I'm on the fence about keeping this thing as I want to do some long distance stuff. I borrows a friends Concours1400 and that really spoiled me. My current plan is to send my boingers to Jamie and then pay the bike the rest of the way off. I'll rent a FJR for a weekend to see what I Think about it. Then we will see where the cards land. Someone may get a pretty damn nice VFR at the end of the day. Or I will continue to have the all HRC garage..
Epyon, sounds somewhat off note to the original post. You seem to be looking for something different from the VFR. Track and road will definitely be different. And frankly, if you're doing a lot of gravel and such, not sure if even a FJR will suit. Your '98 is now 20 years old and the suspension, if original is very old and tired. That certainly won't help with the type of roads you are riding on. Apologies to you if there is a further thread you have shared that detail on. My best to you in seeking the best ride for YOU. :-)
^^ +1. I'm not sure from the post if it's about the gravel, trees, cows etc. or the VFR. Whether it's the Connie, FJ or Viffer, that stuff's still going to be out there. The Connie and FJ are fine long haul tools - gobs of power compared to the '98, but pack more heft. You might be surprised with Jamie's linear rate spring / revalve upgrade on the VFR. The bike is transformed in to a fine carving tool for the tight stuff. But as pointed out above, it's all about finding the right tool for the way you ride.
I tend to do a lot of varied riding. But I must admit I love gravel roads on the vfr. I've gone down logging roads which was single lane track, fire trails and wonderfully smooth graded dirt on which I was going highway speeds. Maybe the vfr just isn't what you are used to which is fine. Give it a bit longer my favourite saying is " the vfr does absolutely nothing well, it does everything average, it's well mannered and behaves in a gentlemanly way " and yes you can play with the fast boys but expect the pegs to be on the ground, dirt and you can have a stupid grin power sliding around the corners. Why cause they are cheap and unbreakable. But of course I'm very bias cause I have one. Getting a full upgrade kit front and rear for mine at the moment, will see how that goes
Old boy. I have to disagree with you as I think they are the absolute best at what they are. The best all round bike ever made. My truth. :cheerleader:
My gravel comments came from the fact that the ride I was just on had a bunch of road that were being redone, which was a surprise to us when we got there. No off roading for me. I'm sure that getting everything done by Jamie will be just awesome. I have already spoken with him about it all and he is great to work with. The thing that really eats me up about my bike is no Luggage with out adding all kinds of scaffolding, not to mention it looks goofy with luggage on. The 6th gen (visually) give me the impression that its more Touring then Sports bike (even if only a little bit more). I'm going to demo a local friends 6th gen this weekend for a longer ride to see what I think. I'm ok with jumping generations if I can get luggage that is more intergraded and a wider fairing. I don't need all the power that the big boys have, but I wouldn't say no HEH.
Epyon, the big difference with the 6th gen from what you have currently is the side bags integrate really nicely. The steering is a touch sharper, and there's no cam gear whine. I think the 6th gen looks more modern, sharper; and vtec is not an issue for me. However, for what you are looking for it's a degree difference from the 5th gen you currently own. It really depends on your luggage needs if I understand correctly = I learned that a good top box and tank bag is best for solo. But if you're loading up, and need the space for going duo, then a larger bike will be better. My best to you and interesting to hear your thoughts after your test. :-)
Alright, I've gotten acquainted with the new suspension and I'm in love. It kind of makes me wonder why I waited so damn long to do this. I know it's a little expensive but if you are on the fence I would not hesitate at all. The bike feels a lot better than before. Smoother ride and way more control. When leaned into a turn the bike holds its line like never before. No wondering or anything. I feel what the front wheel is doing a lot better than before. Oh and break dive, yeah that's been cut dramatically.
I couldn't imagine riding on the stock suspension now. It's that much of a difference. I did not raise the forks in the triple yet since I wanted an apples to apples comparison, but I might. I have heard good things about that. The new rear shock raised the rear a bit (my wife doesn't love that) but it rides better that way.
Alrighty I was able to try that 6th gen out on Saturday. Long and short of it is, not different enough to change (as you all said).
There were some personality differences that I did like. It seems to me that the 6th gen may have a heavier flywheel. It may just be this particular bike but on the highway in 6th when you crank on it the engine vibrates from down low like a V-twin. I LOVE twins so I really enjoyed that feeling on this bike. He had a Sargent seat which was no good for my butt. Do we know of the 5th gen and 6th gen Sargent seats are alike? The previous owner swept the bars out so I was riding like superman, but he did bring the bars flush with the top of the forks. That actually made it almost good. I raised mine, that helped the back a lot actually. Even the tiny amount of height increase helped. Now I feel it more in my quads and Hamstrings. With that said I do Crossfit 3 times a week so my legs are almost always tired haha. If I was trying to decide which one to buy not having one already then I'd potentially go with the 6th gen (the VTEC is actually kinda nice). I'll have to see when bonus time comes around how I do and what ST1300's are priced like. If I can have a 98 VFR, an ST1300 and a 2000 RC51 I think I'll have a lovely collection.
Oh, and holy crap my suspension is SOoooo bad compared to his. I know it needs to be refreshed but WOW what a difference.
Now that is a fine collection! I have wanted to try a Firestorm but they are petty hard to come by. I love my SP1 to death, its such a fantastic track bike.
Epyon007 Now that is a fine collection! I have wanted to try a Firestorm but they are petty hard to come by. I love my SP1 to death, its such a fantastic track bike.
They were all so cheap, I couldn't afford NOT buy them.
The VTR is my preferred fun bike but not a great choice for the long haul. The ST is everything the VTR is not; still very enjoyable and comfy, and with some suspension mods it is quite a decent handler as long as you don't try and ride too fast.
thtanner Some may argue the ST1100 is better than the 1300...
I would be one of those people. Selling my 1100 was a mistake.
Glad to hear that. I bought the ST as a project, a non runner that had been parked up for 10 yrs, and had never ridden one, or the 1300. Took a little while to adapt my riding style and expectations to the ST, but it's the bike I've done the most riding on since I got it running.
I'm still working on getting the forks right but it is very sure footed and stable, and point to point I doubt I'm much slower than on the VFR. Getting 400km out of a tank is a bonus too, and I'm planning on doing some real touring over the summer break.
The dealership I bought my VFR from has a ST1300 now too. So Saturday afternoon I'm headed up to see how it is! I doubt that it would be the bike to take the touring and VFR spots of my garage though. I'm looking forward to trying it though!!!
End of thread · 68 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 17 Jul 2017
![[image: Nike Just Do It Girl Wallpaper - Download and use this free wallpaper at your desktop. At this image you can see very interesting wallpaper with Nike Just Do It Girl]](http://www.wallpapersfolder.com/user-content/uploads/wall/o/67/nike_just_do_it_girl_wallpaper.jpg){kind=link}
![[image: 82e8552ea35979cefe2c4536df1d46b1.jpg]](http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161108/82e8552ea35979cefe2c4536df1d46b1.jpg){kind=link}