Slave rebuild necessary?

I'm changing out the sprockets on my 95 VFR and when removing the front sprocket cover i found fluid in one of the cover to case bolt holes. Initially i though that fluid may pass through but that didn't make any real sense. This is most likely just a leaky clutch slave cylinder that needs to be dealt with i think. Any input on this? I'm pointing to the center bolt hole on both sides where fluid was found.

Thanks! Miles

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RC51-CBR1000RR-CB1300-VTR1000F-RC30-CBR1100XX-X-4-RC45-TSR-CLUTCH-SLAVE-CYLINDER-/282274238736?hash=item41b8db1110:g:1c4AAOSw-W5UzClK&vxp=mtr


I put one of these on my vfr800 vtec and couldn't be happier.

Looks like it'd be quite an upgrade! Unfortunately a bit out of the price range. So I take it your opinion is that it's shot? I bought a rebuild kit just Incase. I bled the slave a previous, fluid was consistency of pudding...

I have had to replace slaves in my '86, '95 and RC30.  I just bought new OEM Honda and put them in.  I have yet to try to rebuild one, but I saved my old ones thinking I would one day.  Fluid always stays dark on the clutch vs. the brake side, not sure why.  With the look of the MC, I might take it apart and clean it too, and consider a new line.  Black fluid in mine before, but not pudding.

Right on, thanks for the input! I'll look into what it might take to do the master as well. Unfortunately all I can find for "new" slaves is aftermarket or used so I figured I'll just rebuild it. What's the worse that could happen right? This bike sat for a really long time at one point and maintenance was severely neglected. You should have seen the water pump! 10k on the clock too...😥 Sad stuff.

MR cycles has them for $77, at least the website says so.  Not cheap, and there is not much to them, but I might be worried about the state of the piston/cylinder based on the MC picture.

This is what was purchased, i believe its just the seals and sorts needed for the slave     http://www.ebay.com/itm/291732037384

Interesting, maybe I'll contact them and see if i can't validate If it's true OE. If so i wouldn't mind picking it up and returning the rebuild kit... I've discovered there is a lot of trial and error with parts on these bikes.

$77 for new oem vs $36 for rebuilding the oem, I would definitely just buy a new oem slave.

Agreed, thanks for the input!

I was buying some items from V-FORE and felt his clutch pull on his old bike and it was great. He gave me the master and slave combo and I put it on my bike. There was no pressure or anything once installed. I bled the damn thing for a while to no prevail. Is there something that could cause my slave and master to have no pressure that isn't involved with the salve and master at all?

Thanks, Miles

are all the pieces back in the bike?  I mean that the clutch slave presses on the Clutch Lifter Rod, so if that rod was still sitting on you work bench instead of in the bike the clutch slave cylinder would have nothing to press on.  Just a "sanity check" thought, stranger things have happened when reassembling a bike.

FairWeatherFellow

I was buying some items from V-FORE and felt his clutch pull on his old bike and it was great. He gave me the master and slave combo and I put it on my bike. There was no pressure or anything once installed. I bled the damn thing for a while to no prevail. Is there something that could cause my slave and master to have no pressure that isn't involved with the salve and master at all?

Thanks, Miles

This system is just a pain to bleed.  Sometimes it helps to remove the clutch MC from the bike and hold it in such a way that the MC to line connection is at the lowest point while you pump it. Also like the above said, make sure you have the clutch rod in.

Pretty easy to rebuild it and cheap if your piston os still good.  $45 difference for similar time spent on the repair. I am a tightwad when working on older bikes. 

4 hours ago, Auspanglish

De ja vu? I could have sworn I saw this same enquiry in a different thread? This is going to get confusing.

Potentially I made a inquiry in another thread I have going about my bike. Figured I'd put the question in both for the most info.

6 hours ago, GreginDenver

are all the pieces back in the bike?  I mean that the clutch slave presses on the Clutch Lifter Rod, so if that rod was still sitting on you work bench instead of in the bike the clutch slave cylinder would have nothing to press on.  Just a "sanity check" thought, stranger things have happened when reassembling a bike.

Yup, I never removed the rod just for that reason! Everything is in and should function properly. 

2 hours ago, SamW

This system is just a pain to bleed.  Sometimes it helps to remove the clutch MC from the bike and hold it in such a way that the MC to line connection is at the lowest point while you pump it. Also like the above said, make sure you have the clutch rod in.

I haven't thought about that, I'll give it a try. The problem is that I know the system doesn't have an in it because I felt the clutch pull on the bike it came off of and it felt great. That's why I used it as my replacement to avoid further complications. But here I am...

1 hour ago, VFR Capt.Bob

Pretty easy to rebuild it and cheap if your piston os still good.  $45 difference for similar time spent on the repair. I am a tightwad when working on older bikes. 

Really I shouldn't have to rebuild the slave. The new system I put in was fully functioning. The real question is if my springs and clutch assembly would cause poor clutch feel in the lever?

Thanks, Miles

Slave on Mr.RC45 lasted from 1994 to 2012 then it was rebuilt... the MT7 part is sourced from the NR750...

5 minutes ago, BusyLittleShop

Slave on Mr.RC45 lasted from 1994 to 2012 then it was rebuilt... the MT7 part is sourced from the NR750...

Lucky guy, probably lasted due to routine maintenance. Unfortunately that's not my case, there's a chance mine had factory fluid in it still...Out of curiosity how does one remove the piston exactly? I do have a rebuild kit on standby just Incase...

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFellow

Potentially I made a inquiry in another thread I have going about my bike. Figured I'd put the question in both for the most info.

Yup, I never removed the rod just for that reason! Everything is in and should function properly. 

I haven't thought about that, I'll give it a try. The problem is that I know the system doesn't have an in it because I felt the clutch pull on the bike it came off of and it felt great. That's why I used it as my replacement to avoid further complications. But here I am...

Really I shouldn't have to rebuild the slave. The new system I put in was fully functioning. The real question is if my springs and clutch assembly would cause poor clutch feel in the lever?

Thanks, Miles

Depending on how you held it, it could have gotten air in it during removal, transportation, installation.  It happens on occasion with my trials bike when it does a few rotations crashing down a hill.  Also happened on my 2000vfr when I dropped it on the clutch side.

1 hour ago, BCmcrider

Depending on how you held it, it could have gotten air in it during removal, transportation, installation.  It happens on occasion with my trials bike when it does a few rotations crashing down a hill.  Also happened on my 2000vfr when I dropped it on the clutch side.

Alright thanks for the input. In going to clean up the pushrod and hold the master below the slave when I bleed it next. Hopefully that will do it!

To get the cylinder out, remove the slave from the bike and slowly squeeze the master lever until the piston slides out enough to grip.

1 hour ago, SamW

To get the cylinder out, remove the slave from the bike and slowly squeeze the master lever until the piston slides out enough to grip.

Awesome, thank you good sir!

Beware of the fluid dump once the piston is removed.

Gotcha thanks. So I removed the slave rechecked for solid piston movement, all good there. So I pulled the rod and found heavy scoring on it, sanded the rod and put it in the other way. After rebleeding we have pressure again! Now to wait a bit for our torrential downpour to end then I can test it on the road!

23 hours ago, FairWeatherFellow

Lucky guy, probably lasted due to routine maintenance. Unfortunately that's not my case, there's a chance mine had factory fluid in it still...Out of curiosity how does one remove the piston exactly? I do have a rebuild kit on standby just Incase...

Hydraulic actuating clutches are the gold standard and we're lucky
our bikes are equip because they cost more than simple cable operated
clutch... they work buttery smooth only if the brake fluid is fresh...
but when the DOT 3 or 4 or 5.1 Glycol fluid goes from fresh golden, then
light brown, indicating that it has absorbed progressively more
moisture. Eventually, if left unchanged beyond the recommended service
interval, the fluid will become dark brown, indicating high amounts of
water absorption and thus badly contaminated fluid will begin
corroding your parts... you may need to drain and flush the system and
rebuild the slave cylinder to have that buttery smooth feeling once
again...

DOT 3 DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 are Glycol based brake fluids whereas DOT 5
are Silicone based... Glycol based fluids are designed to signal
moisture contamination... the fluid will start to turn golden, then
light brown, indicating that it has absorbed progressively more
moisture. Eventually, if left unchanged beyond the recommended service
interval, the fluid will become dark brown, indicating high amounts of
water absorption and thus badly contaminated fluid... user friendly
Glycol based fluids also reduce the effect of both corrosion and
compressibility because it is not only designed to accept significant
amounts of moisture, but even to neutralize it by dispersing this
moisture evenly throughout the system, thus preventing its
concentration in any one area...

DOT 5 Silicone based fluid will not turn color to signal moisture
content...

DOT 5 was created for the military to use in vehicles that will be
parked for years at a time. Harley-Davidson used DOT 5 until a decade
ago but specifies DOT 4 now.

Boiling point of Glycol based brake fluids
DOT 3 205 °C (401 °F)
DOT 4 230 °C (446 °F)
DOT 5.1 270 °C (518 °F)

Boiling point of Silicone based brake fluids
DOT 5 260 °C (500 °F)

If you wish to use the latest in Glycol base fluids then its DOT 5.1

49 minutes ago, FairWeatherFellow

Gotcha thanks. So I removed the slave rechecked for solid piston movement, all good there. So I pulled the rod and found heavy scoring on it, sanded the rod and put it in the other way. After rebleeding we have pressure again! Now to wait a bit for our torrential downpour to end then I can test it on the road!

You can test for clutch drag while on the center stand...

your gears can't shift smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...

1 Place your bike on the center stand...

2 Start engine and establish a steady idle...

3 Squeeze in the clutch and hold... shift into first gear...

4 Now look at the rear wheel... if it's spinning step on the rear brake...
does this action drag down the engine rpms???

Ultimately you want the rear wheel to stop when the engine is idling
and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...

12 hours ago, BusyLittleShop

You can test for clutch drag while on the center stand...

your gears can't shift smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...

1 Place your bike on the center stand...

2 Start engine and establish a steady idle...

3 Squeeze in the clutch and hold... shift into first gear...

4 Now look at the rear wheel... if it's spinning step on the rear brake...
does this action drag down the engine rpms???

Ultimately you want the rear wheel to stop when the engine is idling
and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...

All of that is great info, thank you sir. I ran the bike earlier with the wheel off the ground. No wheel movement at idle in first and no rpm change. Sounds a little better as well. My clutch rod was getting hung up so it feels pretty solid. Now to just ride the thing. Also using DOT4 per recommend for the bike, except I'll be doing routine maintenance on it and checking the fluid and changing when necessary.

Just to add, anyone that needs to replace their clutch slave on a VF500, VF700, VFR750 and VFR800 (98-01 only), the same unit is used on many hondas, most recently CB1100 2013-2014; CB1000R 2011-2015; I found a salvage unit from ebay for £20, 5 years old, of course the seals might need changing but this is for those that the caliper/piston have worn down. Beats £80+ honda prices.

FairWeatherFellow, 05/02/2017 at 11:50 AM

All of that is great info, thank you sir. I ran the bike earlier with the wheel off the ground. No wheel movement at idle in first and no rpm change. Sounds a little better as well. My clutch rod was getting hung up so it feels pretty solid. Now to just ride the thing. Also using DOT4 per recommend for the bike, except I'll be doing routine maintenance on it and checking the fluid and changing when necessary.

I have had the side of my clutch off, and I am not sure how I should place this washer that was in the rebuild kit. I didn't have one in there when I took it off: 

There is rubber in the piston, but it doesn't want to come out the part fiche isn't very clear... is this meant to go inside the piston, or it sits outside the piston, if so which way facing the case or piston? 

3 hours ago, courtuk

I have had the side of my clutch off, and I am not sure how I should place this washer that was in the rebuild kit. I didn't have one in there when I took it off: 

There is rubber in the piston, but it doesn't want to come out the part fiche isn't very clear... is this meant to go inside the piston, or it sits outside the piston, if so which way facing the case or piston? 

What's the other side look like? To be honest I never rebuilt the slave, my issues was the clutch rod hanging up so I didn't need too. That looks the the gasket that is recessed in the piston that the rod slides into.

3 minutes ago, FairWeatherFellow

What's the other side look like? To be honest I never rebuilt the slave, my issues was the clutch rod hanging up so I didn't need too. That looks the the gasket that is recessed in the piston that the rod slides into.

The other side is flat. It does look like it belongs inside the piston, however my old piston that was worn, I tried to remove the rubber and it just would not come out, I eventually was digging it out with pointy tools, this doesn't seem too fit inside smoothly or with force. Although maybe if it was put inside the clutch rod it would press into the piston when actuating. I wonder if anyone else can take their slave off and see if they have this rubber piece loose inside ???

15 hours ago, courtuk

The other side is flat. It does look like it belongs inside the piston, however my old piston that was worn, I tried to remove the rubber and it just would not come out, I eventually was digging it out with pointy tools, this doesn't seem too fit inside smoothly or with force. Although maybe if it was put inside the clutch rod it would press into the piston when actuating. I wonder if anyone else can take their slave off and see if they have this rubber piece loose inside ???

I could take a photo of my old slave when I get home if you need. But there shouldn't be anything loose when you remove the slave besides the clutch rod. The only seal that it resembles is the seal on the inside of the piston that the rod seats into. Otherwise I'm not sure what the seals inside the the assembly look like, sorry I'm not much help. I'd also recommend sanding your clutch Rod and flipping it while everything is apart.

FairWeatherFellow, 27/03/2017 at 5:48 PM

I could take a photo of my old slave when I get home if you need. But there shouldn't be anything loose when you remove the slave besides the clutch rod. The only seal that it resembles is the seal on the inside of the piston that the rod seats into. Otherwise I'm not sure what the seals inside the the assembly look like, sorry I'm not much help. I'd also recommend sanding your clutch Rod and flipping it while everything is apart.

Okay, I guess the old seal is just stuck in the piston. I will try again to remove it.

Which part of the rod should I sand? It seems smooth all the way along. 

To get the piston out unhook the slave line, at this point the slave is loose and you can take it to the bench. Now un screw the blender valve (fluid is gonna go everywhere). At the point get a rag and start pulling up on opposite sides of the piston. It's will come out now as all the negative pressure is released. The part of the seal in your picture up there faces flush against the bottom. I'll attach a skematic that shows you. If the piston is lightly scored you can hit that, and the rod with very high grit sandpaper (400 grit). If the piston is any more scored than that can smooth out just order a new one. They are cheap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[image: 9cfd471e721f94975bb141bdbd7566bc.jpg]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nicholas042416, 6/6/2017 at 1:36 PM

To get the piston out unhook the slave line, at this point the slave is loose and you can take it to the bench. Now un screw the blender valve (fluid is gonna go everywhere). At the point get a rag and start pulling up on opposite sides of the piston. It's will come out now as all the negative pressure is released. The part of the seal in your picture up there faces flush against the bottom. I'll attach a skematic that shows you. If the piston is lightly scored you can hit that, and the rod with very high grit sandpaper (400 grit). If the piston is any more scored than that can smooth out just order a new one. They are cheap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great info, thanks man. Actually had the slave go out that I replaced my old one with, just stopped holding pressure and puked it's guts out everywhere. Now the original is on and works great. 

Miles

FairWeatherFellow Great info, thanks man. Actually had the slave go out that I replaced my old one with, just stopped holding pressure and puked it's guts out everywhere. Now the original is on and works great. 
 
Miles