Please help! Bike turns over but not firing/ not starting?

I have recently posted, changed my thermostat, had a vacuum leak after re-installing the throttle bodies. The issue was solved with help of the forum,( re-tightened the throttle body boots/rubber rings).  Bike ran perfectly again. 

I've come out this morning to ride and the idle was low. After a couple of minutes the bike started to miss then cut out. 

It would cough and spark for a few tries to restart. Now there is no spark at all. The bike has power and turns over, but won't fire?

Fuel system is working, fuel is being pumped into the head,(checked that removing the air box and could see fuel spraying onto the valves. Check every connection, fuses, vacuum hoses, but still no fire. 

Totally stumped and losing my riding time. 

Please help

Have you actually confirmed there is no spark?

Try raising your sidestand, does it start?

What is the status of your FI Light? Any flashing code? Or does it normally cycle on then off at switch on.

Could you have a condensation issue or bad fuel?

After all that cranking and not starting you would now probably have a flooded engine. So try the flooded start procedure and make sure you have a healthy battery.

Hey Grum,

Need an extension to extract the plugs. We're still in  lockdown here so have had to order one online. Will be waiting until next week before it arrives. 

*No flashing codes, the light cycles normally.  *I've checked the tank a few times.

*The bikes on the centre stand and checked the kick stand switch more than once. 

*The engine will be flooded as I was cranking with the air box off to check injectors were pumping. I.e. the fuel pump/injectors are functioning.

*Taken down and reattached all connections on the bike.

*Checked every fuse on the bike.

Also going to use a multi.meter to check continuity and voltages. 

*Battery is solid.

Was wondering if there was a simple answer as I've probably missed something. 

👍

Don't know the flooded engine procedure?

To clear flooded-engine, twist throttle to 100%, then crank engine for 5-sec.

1. No need to remove plugs to check for spark. Just pull one spark-plug wire and insert spare spark-plug into it. Ground case of plug to bolt on engine and crank. Do you see spark? What colour is it?

2. Measure side-stand switch's continuity to chassis-ground. Up and down positions.

3. Measure resistance of all fuses across legs. If I had nickel for every time I've heard, "fuse looks OK", but actually didn't conduct electricity....

[image: spacer.png]

Having the throttle fully open while cranking shuts off the injectors and purges the engine of excess fuel.

Just out of curiosity. Place the bike in gear, Sidestand up, clutch pulled in. Try starting, does the bike crank over?

[image: IMG_1011.PNG]

Also make sure vacuum hoses are connected to MAP-sensor and FPR.

I put little zip-ties on ends of these hoses to verify they are firmly attached

Danno and Grum, 

I really appreciate the time you two give in helping.outnyoir fellow man. I wish there was a way I could ready the kindness. It's good to know there are people who want to just help each other out.

I'll post again in a few days. My hands are full.ober the weekend and won't have a chance to do more work until Monday.

You're good people.👍

Hey DannoXYZ and Grum,

*So today I was able to check spark. It is sparking with no faults.

*I checked resistance on the fuses. They are all good with no faults  

* Checked the continuity of the side stand. It's is all in working order with no faults

*After letting the bike sit for a couple of days, there is more compression due to oil now reaching the rings. The flooding obviously dropped the compression by removing oil.

*Checked all vacuum hoses are attached and working correctly, I assume they are as there seems to be no leaking.

*I have taken out the battery and am fully charging it again as multiple turn overs have drained it.

Any further input will be appreciated.

Regards, Phye07 

What colour is spark?

Hey, 

The spark is blue. I tested by removing the coil and using a screwdriver and the frame. Cranked the engine and observed a blue spark. 

Plug were done in July last year. Denso iridium. 

4 hours ago, Phye07

*After letting the bike sit for a couple of days, there is more compression due to oil now reaching the rings. The flooding obviously dropped the compression by removing oil.

What compression numbers# did you get?

Did you actually jumper ECU to show codes? 

Do you have vacuum gauge?

Do you have multimeter with peak-voltage function?
Do you have oscilloscope?

Once your battery is fully charged.

Go through the Flooded Start procedure a few times. Let's know how that goes.

P.s. If you had any current EFI fault codes they would be displayed/flashing while your ignition is on with side stand down.

19 minutes ago, Grum

P.s. If you had any current EFI fault codes they would be displayed/flashing while your ignition is on with side stand down.

Oh, no jumpering needed? I must be looking at wrong manual.

1 hour ago, DannoXYZ

Oh, no jumpering needed? I must be looking at wrong manual.

I remember doing starter valve synch on my 6gen. Because the MAP and IAT were unplugged 

during the process and my side stand was down, these error codes were flashing. Once the process was completed and the MAP and IAT were plugged in, there were no flashing codes (no current/active faults) and everything was normal, however, no doubt those error codes would have been stored and I could have retrieved or deleted them via the shorting link process if needed.

[image: IMG_1015.PNG]

49 minutes ago, Grum

I remember doing starter valve synch on my 6gen. Because the MAP and IAT were unplugged 

during the process and my side stand was down, these error codes were flashing. Once the process was completed and the MAP and IAT were plugged in, there were no flashing codes(no current faults) and everything was normal, however, no doubt those error codes would have been stored and I could have retrieved or deleted them via the shorting link process if needed.

[image: IMG_1015.PNG]

Ah thank you! I don't have 6th-gen to play with, so just going by manual. There are numerous errors in manuals that's not updated with each new generation.

Hi Phye07.

More thoughts about your issue, and if the Flooded Start procedure hasn't helped, then.......

Your fault description of the bike starting then shortly running rough and stalling is typical of fuel starvation, fuel flooding OR bad fuel.

You've confirmed your injectors are working, you have ignition and your plugs are relatively new, you have no EFI Fault Codes, your battery is good. 

So you should have combustion!!!!

ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY SURE....you don't have any bad fuel issues or contamination. If your fuel isn't fresh and the tank is say half full and weather conditions are just right you may have a condensation issues. Also if you are using an Ethanol blended fuel this could exacerbate the stuation as Ethanol is hygroscopic. I've experienced condensation issues and it caused rough slow idling, in bad cases your engine will not run!

You could also have a very dirty fuel filter. So fuel pressure and flow may need checking.

With respect to excess fuel, are you smelling raw fuel from the exhaust? If so this situation can be caused by a ruptured Fuel Pressure Regulator diaphragm, this dumps excess fuel into cylinders 3 and 4 via the vacuum line connected to the FPR.

Good luck.

Hey guys, 

As always, thank you so much for your input and time. Your helpfulness is not unappreciated. It is welcomed. 

Firstly,

To answer your question DannoXYZ, 

*I have since jumpered the ECU and retrieved the error codes.

*I do not have a compression gauge. I did the old school trick of placing my hand over the intakes and feeling for compression. All suck down hard and effectively. 

*I have a good multimeter

*No, I do not have an oscilloscope 👎 wouldn't know where to start with one. 

Secondly,

I've run through all the error codes on the bike. Checked them against the service manual and they are what would be concurrent with everything that I had unplugged whilst doing the throttle bodies and testing. Noting out of the ordinary.

If you'd like to know, they were:

1, 2, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15, 21, 22, 23, 24.

Everything that would cause errors due to removing the throttle body and all the applicable sensors. Obviously while having power to the bike these have caused such error to the ecu.

The fuel in the bike is good, it is pumping to the valves without interruption. 

The bike also hasn't fired since it first cut out completely last Friday.  After it cut out, I then tried to restart it  twice. That is when it had some coughing spluttering. 

But, since those first to attempts to get an ignition, there has been none at all. No coughs, no sputters, no firing of any sort there is no fuel smell in the exhaust. Well, that I can tell. It is super windy here and now also -2°.

I am totally stumped. 

I guess it's time to call someone and shell out who knows how much?

We've just started to troubleshoot!

1 = MAP sensor connector issue or bad MAP sensor

2 = loose or leaking MAP sensor hose, or bad MAP sensor

7 = loose or poor contact ECT sensor connector, or bad ECT sensor

8 = loose or poor contact TP sensor connector, or bad TP sensor

9 = loose or poor contact IAT sensor, or bad IAT sensor

12 = loose or poor contact #1 injector connector

13 = loose or poor contact #2 injector connector

14 = loose or poor contact #3 injector connector

15 = loose or poor contact #4 injector connector

21 = faulty #1 O2-sensor

22 = faulty #2 O2-sensor

23 = faulty #1 O2-sensor heater

24 = faulty #2 O2-sensor heater

I usually never run engine without everything completely assembled. So now ECU's way confused and is taking massive evasive action to compensate. Fuel-trim is probably maxed out super-rich. Ok, now that you've put everything back together, clear the codes and see what's left.

Things aren't black & white with these things. We live in an analogue world with gradients. So get used to measuring and coming up with numbers. Exact values of those numbers point to where problems are. There's difference between 12.9v vs. 12.6v measured at battery. There's difference between 12.0:1 vs. 16.0:1 AFR.

Here's an example. I got call from guy who's bike just quit on way home. Crank, crank, crank, would not run again. He pushed it back and started ripping it apart replacing plugs, wires, coils, battery, ECU, injectors, FPR, fuel-pump, etc. I asked him how much gas was in tank and he sent me picture of gas-cap!!! Not, "I just put in 15-litres 5-minutes ago" or "shows 1/4-full on gauge". Having numeric target would tell us he ran out of petrol.

If you want to pay someone to do what you're going to do anyway, that's OK. They're just going to consult manual and reset codes on page 5-8, then proceed to measure voltages of various sensors, MAP and TPS being extremely important. Along with measuring vacuum going to MAP to verify it's actually reporting what it's supposed to. Or you can follow manual and do exact same testing yourself.

Hey mate, I cleared the codes already and no fire.

Hey DannoXYZ,

I have been readimg through the manual also, but am thinking maybe there is something I've missed? To have fuel, air and spark, we should have ignition? 

Anything else you can throw at me I will gladly honour and do that procedure.

What codes are left?

Start on page 5-14 and do all tests in order. Extremely important to report what voltages you measured in each step.

It's very likely wiring may have gotten broken, or a connector pin bent, or something slightly tweaked. Measured numbers from testing flow-chart will cause problem area to jump out at you. Like a lion chewing on your leg, can't miss it!!!

Somewhere, you'll measure 0.0v or 4.652v when it should be 4.921v and that's the smoking gun clue!!!

ECU is like blind man sitting in dark room trying to mix drinks. He needs someone with eyes to tell him how much rum to pour and when to flick lighter. For ages, data such as engine-position and speed was used to determine when to fire plugs. We had recent case where trigger-bumps passing under pick-up coil was damaged and ECU had no idea where TDC was.

With conversion from carbs to EFI, even more data is needed: air-temp (proxy for air-density), engine coolant-temp, throttle-position, air-pressure, altitude, and even phase-of-moon is used to calculate how much air mass engine has just sucked in. With correct data, the blind man knows how long to push the injector-button to send correct amount of petrol into engine to match air-flow. If any one of these sensors is not operating properly, you're gonna end up with an incorrect amount of petrol. So how do we know if sensors are working properly?

We're like blind man (ECU), we have no idea what's wrong with your bike. It's up to you to give us data that will help us "see" the problem. Give us some measurement numbers! :)

Ok mate, that's the next step, but it'll have to wait until the morning. It's -3° and dark now

Hopefully we'll get lucky and find the root issue.

Thank so much guys👍

:fing02:

You haven't specifically mentioned wether you've attempted the flooded start, I guess we just assume you've done it a few times!

I'd be pulling the plugs check for correct part number, see if they are fouled, or wet with fuel.

Even unplug the fuel pump electrical connector or pull the Fuel Cut Relay, crank the bike over a lot to vent the cylinders without the plugs. Confirm your spark with all 4 plugs at all cylinders.

Once you've established the state of the plugs, reinstall (or fit new ones)and see if it fires up.

Unless you're ECM is faulty, any sensor that is out of a known range or faulty should flag a trouble code. You appear to have no current faults!

Any safety logic issues will inhibit your ignition, you don't appear to have any issues with that either!

You do hear the fuel pump prime at every Ignition Switch turn ON, do you?

AND - You have confirmed you have a known good healthy battery, Yes????

With a voltmeter on the battery what does the voltage drop to as you crank the engine?

Try starting with a small amount of throttle opening any change?

Grasping at straws a bit, running out of ideas!

Yeah, seems with fuel, spark and compression it should run!

Although it appears to have both symptoms off too much and too little fuel at same time!

Compression is also untested and unverified.

That seems unlikely that all 4 cylinders would lose all compression though.
When my VF500 had hole blasted through one piston, it was still running and wasn't noticeable... 

until one piston seized and snapped con-rod through side of engine case...

Hey guys, 

I have done multiple flooded start procedures with no result coming from it. 

I don't have any vacuum tester or compression testing kits. 

I have started with the fuel system troubleshooting.

Step 1:  MAP sensor connection inspection: Turn off ignition, disconnect MAP Sensor connector, check for loose or poor connection on sensor,

Reconnect MAP Sensor, place motorcycle stand down, Start engine,(obviously not firing when I do this), is the MIL Blinking?

Answer: No, with the bike as is.

                (Yes, if I jumper for error codes?)

Step two:MAP Sensor power input line                               voltage  inspection:

Turn off ignition, disconnect MAP sensor connector, measure voltage at wire harness side. + To Yellow/Red terminal, - to ground.

Is the voltage between 4.75 - 5.25V?

Answer: No, when ignition off.

                (Yes,: 4.98V when ignition on).

I have not done any further tests as those first two show loose connection, open or short in yellow/red wire, and/or loose or poor contact with the ecm connectors. 

I eagerly await your responses to this information. 

13 minutes ago, Phye07

Hey guys, 

I have done multiple flooded start procedures with no result coming from it. 

I don't have any vacuum tester or compression testing kits. 

I have started with the fuel system troubleshooting.

Step 1:  MAP sensor connection inspection: Turn off ignition, disconnect MAP Sensor connector, check for loose or poor connection on sensor,

Reconnect MAP Sensor, place motorcycle stand down, Start engine,(obviously not firing when I do this), is the MIL Blinking?

Answer: No, with the bike as is.

                (Yes, if I jumper for error codes?)

Step two:MAP Sensor power input line                               voltage  inspection:

Turn off ignition, disconnect MAP sensor connector, measure voltage at wire harness side. + To Yellow/Red terminal, - to ground.

Is the voltage between 4.75 - 5.25V?

Answer: No,w hen ignition off.

                (Yes,: 4.98V when ignition on).

I have not done any further tests as those first two show loose connection, open or short in yellow/red wire, and/or loose or poor contact with the ecm connectors. 

I eagerly await your responses to this information. 

Sorry mate but you don't have a fault code for the MAP sensor and it won't cause the engine to not start!

So to clarify with you Grum,

Having no MIL Blinking after the first step means there are faults or are you saying there are "no" faults, i.e. this shouldn't effect it starting? 

All I'm saying is that it would seem pointless to pursue a MAP issue.

1 - You don't have an active fault code for it.

2  - A faulty MAP sensor will not stop your engine from at least starting.

From what the diagnosis so far has told me, is that there is one of these.:

show loose connection, open or short in yellow/red wire, and/or loose or poor contact with the ecm connectors

Am I / is the result, in taking the information from the service manual with the results observed, correct?

Should I continue with the rest of the procedures? Even though I don't have a vacuum tester or a testing ECM harness. 

26 minutes ago, Phye07

From what the diagnosis so far has told me, is that there is one of these.:

show loose connection, open or short in yellow/red wire, and/or loose or poor contact with the ecm connectors

Am I / is the result, in taking the information from the service manual with the results observed, correct?

The test assumes you HAVE a fault code of 1. You don't have this fault code!

So by disconnecting the electrical plug then reconnecting it and with power on, If the MIL is now not flashing a code 1. Then that means you had determined a loose plug which you now don't have! And the ECM is satisfied.

There is no point running the fault code diagnosis tests if you don't have a fault code to start with!!

Ok, thanknyou very much for clarifying that for me.

I'm just pulling all the spark plugs and giving them a clean. They all spark, but just checking them all again.

I do however keep draining the battery and am requiring full charges every night. 

Mate be careful cleaning iridium plugs. Check they are correct part number. Check if they are black with carbon or wet with fuel, have a close look at the plugs from cylinders 3 and 4 are they particularly wet. As mentioned a ruptured diaphragm of the FPR will dump excess fuel into those cylinders via the vacuum hoses.

Crank the engine over with the plugs out and with full throttle incase it was flooded hopefully this will clear any excess fuel.

Again you havent answered. Do you hear the fuel pump prime every time you turn ignition to ON?

Make sure all 4 plugs for all cylinders spark.

ALSO is your bike wiring all stock standard? Any modifications at all?

Hey mate,

The fuel pump always primes and is delivering fuel to the valves. I'm sure I did mention it in the earlier threads. Regardless, the fuel pump primes and pumps fuel👍.

The plugs were black and had oil/fuel on the electrodes and protrusions. I'd be assuming from flossing the engine. A couple of times now.

I've come inside as it's snowing right now. 🥶

Fault codes are not end-all miracle in diagnostics. They only indicate outright hardware failures and provides start on where to look for issues.  However, codes will not show if something is still within range, but mis-adjusted. You can still have major problems that prevents the bike from starting without any codes showing. For example, MAP and TPS. Their usable output range is typically 0,5-5v. You'll get a fault-code under following conditions:

- loose or poor contact at sensor

- open or short on connector wires

- faulty sensor

ECU throws code IF output signal is not withing 0,5-5v range. However, if vacuum-hose is disconnected or leaking, MAP sensor will report 5v when it should be 2,7v at idle. ECU has no idea vacuum hose is disconnected, it thinks engine is at WOT and injects max-fuel. That's why there's additional mechanical test of measuring actual vacuum in manifold. Physical testing will always be more accurate than fault-codes.

Same with TPS, it outputs 0,4-4,8v from closed to WOT. Unless you have obvious hardware failures like broken wire or TPS itself, ECU will never know that TPS is rotated 10-degrees out of line. Same thing with temp-sensors. Faulty wiring or sensors can report engine's at 100C when it's cold and ECU will just operate like engine's at 100C with improper fuel & ignition values. Just because there's no codes, doesn't mean you don't have sensorissues. You can pretty much ignore looking at fault-codes completely as testing and measurements will always show actual conditions of engine and sensors.

There's no error code that shows you've got worn rings, mis-adjusted valves or hole in piston. ECU has no idea. Only good 'ol-fashioned testing with gauges like mechanics have used for past 100-yrs will work. If you're reporting oil on spark plugs, there may be some issues internally. Time to rent compression-tester and see actual numbers. Had an engine come in once that wasn't starting. It had fuel, correct fuel-pressure, proper flow from injectors, it had spark, all sensors tested fine, no codes.  Scratched my head for while on why it wouldn't start. Did compression-test and it was 0-psi across board!!! Took look inside and it was missing pistons and rods!!!  :blink:

4 hours ago, DannoXYZ

Fault codes are not end-all miracle in diagnostics. They only indicate outright hardware failures and provides start on where to look for issues.  However, codes will not show if something is still within range, but mis-adjusted. You can still have major problems that prevents the bike from starting without any codes showing. For example, MAP and TPS. Their usable output range is typically 0,5-5v. You'll get a fault-code under following conditions:

- loose or poor contact at sensor

- open or short on connector wires

- faulty sensor

ECU throws code IF output signal is not withing 0,5-5v range. However, if vacuum-hose is disconnected or leaking, MAP sensor will report 5v when it should be 2,7v at idle. ECU has no idea vacuum hose is disconnected, it thinks engine is at WOT and injects max-fuel. That's why there's additional mechanical test of measuring actual vacuum in manifold. Physical testing will always be more accurate than fault-codes.

Same with TPS, it outputs 0,4-4,8v from closed to WOT. Unless you have obvious hardware failures like broken wire or TPS itself, ECU will never know that TPS is rotated 10-degrees out of line. Same thing with temp-sensors. Faulty wiring or sensors can report engine's at 100C when it's cold and ECU will just operate like engine's at 100C with improper fuel & ignition values. Just because there's no codes, doesn't mean you don't have sensorissues. You can pretty much ignore looking at fault-codes completely as testing and measurements will always show actual conditions of engine and sensors.

There's no error code that shows you've got worn rings, mis-adjusted valves or hole in piston. ECU has no idea. Only good 'ol-fashioned testing with gauges like mechanics have used for past 100-yrs will work. If you're reporting oil on spark plugs, there may be some issues internally. Time to rent compression-tester and see actual numbers. Had an engine come in once that wasn't starting. It had fuel, correct fuel-pressure, proper flow from injectors, it had spark, all sensors tested fine, no codes.  Scratched my head for while on why it wouldn't start. Did compression-test and it was 0-psi across board!!! Took look inside and it was missing pistons and rods!!!  :blink:

Well the MAP sensor won't prevent the engine from starting. (As per the Starter Valve Synch process!)

But, if what you are generally saying about the abilty of the ECM to either detect or not detect a faulty sensor signal is true. Then the most important sensor for a Cold Start is the Engine Coolant Temperature sensor ECT. Perhaps the OP may have disturbed this while removing the throttle bodies?

Perhaps the OP has also disturbed the fast idle wax unit, effecting the Starter Valves from opening?

so hard to tell without numbers. Ambient outside temps might give us a clue. It's about 5C here and none of my carbureted bikes will start without full choke. 

His initial report of it working one day and then not the next might point to an EFI issue? Doesn't seem like anything mechanical would fail overnight.

Also report of completely draining battery and having to constantly charge it is a clue. Not sure to what though....

Ok gentlemen, there is fire.

After digging and digging, we've found it. I was able to borrow a vacuum gauge. 👍 

After so many floodings and flood procedures, I decided to just get all new speak plugs. They were always oil/fuel covered and had to be cleaned off. The new ones in this started some coughing and sputtering.

I removed the air box again and check all the throttle bodies to make sure they were all secure.  Restarting the bike it fires but wouldn't run, so went over the vacuum lines again. The map sensor hose pressure was zero, so  I took the throttle bodies off again to check where else the hose was going too. 

"THEN I FOUND IT": A random 2mm hose spliced into the the vacuum lines. It had been hidden by being taped on with the throttle body wiromf/ FI wiring.

The previous owner has put one of those shitty Scott chain oilers on the bike. I domy use it. 

Who ever installed it had spliced a T section into the vacuum lines underneath the throttle body, but because the had taped it all up with the wiring harness I never saw it. Who knows why they did that? I guess it was to stop it from falling off and dripping the pressure, (which it did). 

I pulled the t section out, joined the two hoses and BOOM! FIRE!!!! 

Whoever fitted that ridiculous oiler onto the bike added it to the vacuum lines. I want to find them and give them a proper beating.

Who tapes an auxilry hollow tube for an oiler onto the MAP sensor Vacuum line. Morons. 

So after all the testing and strippimg things down and  reassembling, we have ignition. 

I must add though, now it's running again, I have alot of moisture coming out of the cans. Until it's up to about  80°C there is white moist vapour coming out. Didn't have that before. Once it's hot the moist white smoke/steam is gone but I don't like moisture coming out of my cans. 

The fuel is shell optimax 99 octane E85.

Hey, hey, good job tracking that down!!! :)  Yeah, 0-vacuum would cause too-high pressure from FPR. Not to mention tricking ECU into thinking you're at WOT and injecting way too much petrol. Darn, fouled-plugs should've tipped me off.

25 minutes ago, Phye07

Whoever fitted that ridiculous oiler onto the bike added it to the vacuum lines. I want to find them and give them a proper beating.

Who tapes an auxilry hollow tube for an oiler onto the MAP sensor Vacuum line. Morons. 

Yeah, I want to beat every previous-owner of every single bike I've every purchased. Wiring messes.... horrible... They all need educational beatings!!!

DannoXYZ and Grum, I will post again in a couple of days and touch base with how it's going. 

The two of you are an invaluable asset to anyone one here. 

I appreciate the time you've given up helping a stranger. You have restored my faith in my fellow man ..👍

:biggrin:   :fing02:

Go have fun riding bike!!!

Phye07, 2/13/2021 at 4:39 AM

The fuel is shell optimax 99 octane E85

Glad you have it sorted. BUT.....Don't Go Riding YET!!!

Sure wished you mentioned your fuel type EARLIER.

WHY WHY WHY are you using E85?

Your bike is designed to run on nothing higher than E10. 

E85 should never be used in older cars or bikes!!

As mentined earlier a couple of times about your fuel, how being bad or of the Ethanol type, sadly you just said "it was good". YOUR FUEL WAS NOT GOOD.

Hi octane E85 would Definitely Not help the engine start in such very cold conditions due to its lower volatility. And as to why a MAP sensor with no vacuum didn't flag a trouble code is a mystery, it should have displayed a code 2 error with zero vacuum! 

Syphon what fuel you can from the tank ASAP then fill it with the lowest (preferably zero) Ethanol content fuel you can find.

E85 is absolute SHIT for an early VFR. For many reasons!! Do NOT use it. It will damage your engine, if it hasn't already done so!

"Ethanol has a corrosive action on fuel-system components, magnesium, aluminium and rubber. Running E85 on older model engines without tuning and replacing some components will ruin the engine in short time. Replacing fuel hoses, fuel pumps, gaskets, seals, fuel filters, fuel injectors, throttle bodies, etc."

Phye07, 2/13/2021 at 4:39 AM

Whoever fitted that ridiculous oiler onto the bike added it to the vacuum lines. I want to find them and give them a proper beating.

Who tapes an auxilry hollow tube for an oiler onto the MAP sensor Vacuum line. Morons. 

Yeah agree! Probably not as bad as the "moron" that puts E85 into a VFR!!!! :mad:

Stochiometric ratio is 9.86:1 for E85 compared to 14.7:1 for gasoline.

Meaning you have to inject 50% more E85 (or fit 50% larger injectors). 

Only modern engines with flex-fuel sensor and pre-programmed maps for E85 can use it!!!

There is absolutely zero benefit!!!

You'd run seriously lean on E85 and end up blowing up engine!!!!  :excl:

DO NOT RUN ENGINE ON E85!!!! DUMP IT OUT!!!