:idea: �Did anyone ever figure out how to disable the VTEC? I know, I know, search the posts, but they have been fully or partially eaten by the November crash.
Seems it may have been decided that full time 4 valve operation would not work? What about delaying the 4 valve kick-in to a higher RPM? That might be an improvement for me as I seem to hit that 7k transition a lot when I'm leaned over in a curve �:twist: �:shake: .
Don't beat me up �:smash: �I'm not trying to get a big thing started all over again :doh: .
For memory the basic therory was that even if you could lock up the vtec you would have to re right the injection programming - something which even honda with all there effort and testing did not get right the first time...
:twist: Why ? It took maybe the first 500 miles or so, but after 17000 miles of Vtec twisties I don't even notice it anymore no matter how far I'm leaned over or not. My bike is stock, no PCIII or 02's. I have video of me running the Dragon (Deals Gap) in and out of Vtec constantly, never even feel the change ! :shake: Unless you have a particularly violent transition, it's just in your head. Unless your using 100% of the tires traction all the time, it will never cause a problem, but in your mind ! :p The more throttle you give it the smoother the transition is, just rip it and forget about it ! PCIII seem to smooth out bike's with real hard transition's too ! If you don't like the Vtec, sell it. Worries gone, buy a nice 5th gen. :beer: PS I love the Vtec kick-in ! :bow:
Ahh, I see. Even if you did lock in 2 valve operation you would have fuel management problems when you passed 7k RPMs. Makes sense �:bow: .
As for turning off the key...I tried that. It does indeed disable the VTEC, but makes it awfully hard to make it through the rest of the corner �:touchofGod: !!
Oh well, I love my bike anyway. Is this what gives my VTEC Viffer it's character �:D ?
disable it? naaaa now that I think I know how to use it, I love the fact I can ride around the streets and just keep it below 7k, lots'o torque and good pickup. In the twisties? keep it above 7k! it's easy to do with the 2 finger shifting. Heck it's the most fun about these bikes is to experience that Jekyl - Hyde relationship, especially when I have a chance to get in the curves and the great response speeding up and slowing down between 7k and 13k wooohoooo :)
Right you are Bailey. If I rip through a corner the transition is smooth. The thing is, I don't rip through every corner. And if I'm not ripping, the kick is pretty hot. It can be aggravating when it takes me by surprize. Sure, I could be aware at all times when I'm about to hit the transition, but would I prefer to just ride.
Right, I could just get a 5th gen and be done with it, couldn't I? That's pretty much the standard and obvious answer, isn't it? Why sure...the seat's too hard...the bars are too low...the throttle cramps my hand after a long ride...the bike runs too lean in the 4 to 5k range...the pipes are too quiet and don't sound too good...etc into whatever.
The answer doesn't seem to be ditch the bike, it seems to be to try to improve what I don't like. That's got to be a hell-of-a-lot cheaper than getting another bike; correct me if I'm wrong here.
If me saying I'd like to improve my bike's performance insults you, I'm sorry. I meant no offense. Peace, brother �:beer: .
In terms of making it work you need to keep the spool on constantly, not disabled. Otherwise you end up with only 2 valves per cylinder all the time. One fella disabled his and not surprisingly he did not have a harsh transition cause well there was none, but he petered out around 8k and the power dropped off. Gotta have those extra valves if you want to get anywhere above 8k. So then he enabled it all the time but found he - not surprisingly did not have the transition, however it was a bit loud crusing and he did loose a bit of pep down low, however around 3k it pulled better. Basically enabling it all the time makes it almost the same as the 5th gen.
All VTEC viffers, don't get me wrong here, I DO love my bike and I DO love the VTEC kick! I wouldn't trade this bike for any other (especially since I've modded the hell out of it to my liking).
I was just making an inquiry. Hey, if I can get any more control and pleasure out of my machine, I'd like to know if it's possible.
Believe me, I'm a VTEC lover all the way! If I can't adjust my bike's VTEC tendencies I can live with it. It won't ruin my day, believe me. I'll love this bike for everything it CAN do for me regardless of any drawbacks �:rocks: .
HS, so are you saying that if I keep the spool on all the time I basically have a 5th gen motor?
Is there any chance of damage to my engine?
You do need to remember that even WITH the vtec there is no power or torque advantage between the pre vetec model 800 and the current. By dis-abling the Vtec you'd actually be down on power either up high or down low as 'slammer said.
The 2004 models are significantly better in the transition stage....
Just do PC3 + O2 mods and see where that gets you. It's not very expensive and there is little risk of losing performance anywhere or causing any damage.
Chances are you will be satisfied. It really smooths things out. Sometimes I am actually disappointed as occasionally it was fun to have the VTEC "kick" when you were on it hard and had the bike stood up.
I think the bike is more deceptively fast with the PCIII and the "kick" smoothed out. It feels slower even though it is up on power a little bit everywhere.
All VTEC viffers, don't get me wrong here, I DO love my bike and I DO love the VTEC kick! I wouldn't trade this bike for any other (especially since I've modded the hell out of it to my liking).
I was just making an inquiry. Hey, if I can get any more control and pleasure out of my machine, I'd like to know if it's possible.
Believe me, I'm a VTEC lover all the way! If I can't adjust my bike's VTEC tendencies I can live with it. It won't ruin my day, believe me. I'll love this bike for everything it CAN do for me regardless of any drawbacks �:rocks: .
Red Knight, I'm not trying to dog you in any way :shake: and have to assume that your bike has one of the harder Vtec transitions. When I first started riding my Vtec I was instantly quicker and more confident with it's chassis, but that Vtec transition when leaned over really bothered me ! I don't know if it's smoothed out with miles or I just got used to it, but as I said it Never bothers me any more. I have heard from many people that the 04 have smooth transitions(any one with an 04 that's not please chime in) and 02-03 models varied in the transition "hit". Most people that seem to have hard "hit" points seemed to greatly improve them by installing a PCIII and 02 elim. It would also be interesting to try a 04 Computer on our 02-03 bikes to see if just that, programming ! I also feel that my Vtec (after some miles) pulls much better down low than my 00 VFR ever did and I've put over 15k on each back to back ! This should be one of the Atvantages of a Vtec motor, Better low rpm efficiency and torque without loosing any top end power and I strongly feel Honda has accomplished this with our bike's. I just think it take's some (thousands) break in miles before it's felt. :p Maybe there's two VFRd buddies that ride together one on a 02-03 and the other on an smooth 04 and they are willing to swap CPU's for a day and report their results ! I think that Honda did the same thing to the stock 04 CPU as a PCIII does to the 02-03 bikes, smooth out the transition ! Ride On Bro ! :rocks:
I don't think that is true that 2004 has a better ECU.
I had a 2002 and I have a 2004 now and they both acted exactly the same. I put 7k on my 2002 and then sold it thinking I was going to stop motorcycling (dumb), then I started going through major withdrawl and after looking around at other bikes I ended up with another VFR.
I think theoretically the VTEC may feel better at low RPM due to gearing changes, regardless of whether or not it makes better torque below 7k rpm than a 5th gen bike. The gearing differences may overcome the weight difference.
I agree with your assessment that the VTEC feels better at low RPM, but it is complicated by differences in throttle response, etc.. between the two bikes as well.
I've done the PC and O2 eliminator. That really fixed my 4 - 5k problems. But it didn't do anything for the VTEC transition.
I have no problem with the transition when I have a lot of throttle open as I go past 7k. The problem occurs when I DON'T have a lot of throttle open as I pass over 7k.
That kick is cool, but not when I don't expect it, especially when I am in the middle of a curve.
But I'm planning on getting a set of Scorpion pipes soon. That may help. I have the K&N filter installed presently.
I appreciate the advice guys. Sorry if I got pissy �:pissed: �!
My 03 has PCIII and O2 eliminators...and the Vtec transition is softer with some maps. I have Lasers and tryed the euro Laser map ( no us specs Laser map avail ) and it is smoother than the Micron or TBR map. IMO Transition is smoother depending on throttle position too.
my 04 has a rapid trnsition into the vtec.....but im with bailey, i dont even notice it while going through the corners. if it as you say going slow through the vtec you should have even less to worry about. if anything mine will sag for a bit if i let it go through slow then slowly rise through it. where ear plugs for a while to get the sound away which is probably subliminaly intimidating you....as the bike will take whatever the vtec gives you with a grin while humpin through the corners.
The VTEC kick did smooth out on my bike with regular use. It still kicks hard on occasion. I'm sure that Honda could have looked into a different mapping system and variable engagement of the VTEC, but they stuck with 6.8krpm. Basically its a fudge that works well in most situations. They have variable VTEC engagement in their car engines, but must have felt it wasn't worth it in the Viffer. I see no reason why operating 4 valve all the time would damage the engine. It may marginally increase mass air flow, but the fuel injection system will sense this and use the appropriate fuel mixture for that airflow/rpm setting. I've tried it. Its a little louder. Not much different. No transition though. I'm used to driving an automatic car. The transition is less that what I feel in my car by far. Only once, when I first got the bike was it a problem, when the bike was cold, but no so cold that it wouldn't kick in. (Could this be why the VTEC is disabled at low temps?) Now that being said, I'm still working on a toy to adjust when my VTEC kicks in. It might be fun to try different rpm settings, or use the mass air flow sensor to integrate a map. I don't want to mess with the factory mixture. As long as I get close to 14.7:1, for maximum efficiency, that'll do. Anyone else tried this?
OK, I understand this about power. What about damage to my engine?
thats the big if on this never dieing subject. the vtec uses oil pressure to engage the pins that bring in the second set of valves. does it have enough oil pressure down low to do it? who knows but the engineers who designed it. they must have thought something about it actuating at certain temps by not letting them work till the engine is up to temp. play with the power commander maps.....cheaper and safer in my overly educated and often sought after opinion. :rocks:
Did I understand you right? Have you have enabled full time 4 valve operation? If so, that must mean that the oil pressure was good enough at low revs to engage the spool, right?
What about this Fixer? Anyone else?
Also Ronan, keep us posted on your project "toy" that will let you play around with the transition point. I'd love to see something like that work.
Shoot I would install pins inplace of the spool and forget about it, wonder if a 5th gen head would fit? shoot there are 5th gen engines for sale on ebay for $800!!
I wouldnt mess with it myself, low oil pressure or used up oil could damage the vavle keeping it on all the time.
I don't ever run at low rpms ;-) , seriously though, I'm rarely below 3.5krpm, the bike doesn't run well below 3.5 in any case. I havn't noticed anything except more noise accelerating.
Shoot I would install pins inplace of the spool and forget about it, wonder if a 5th gen head would fit? �shoot there are 5th gen engines for sale on ebay for $800!!
I wouldnt mess with it myself, low oil pressure or used up oil could damage the vavle keeping it on all the time.
thats the only way id do it....get rid of the spool and have machined custom buckets that just convert the bike to non-vtec status.....but.....personally i like it the way it is and "wouldn't change anything"!!!
Yes, I did this only temporarily by powering the VTEC solenoid 100% of the time.You are on your own if you do this. I'll not accept any claims for damages ;-) I've plugged mine back into the ECU for now, but I want to use a filter circuit to kick in on at a lower rpm. I havn't had time to work on it yet, but am looking into using a PIC microcontoller or an LC filter circuit to kick it on at a certain rpm - seems like it would be safer. I agree that there is concern for low rpm operation spool valve cap/pin damage, esp when cold and the oil is more viscous, but I had no problems. Didn't someone put theirs on a switch? Seems like a fairly good option too.
Sounds pretty cool. If you get that working I would like to hear how it works.
Backstreet just told me something about using a resistor to tie the ECU's spool line to ground if you are going to disable the VTEC to prevent the FI light from coming on.
Is there also a recommended resistor to run in serial between 12v and the spool for full time 4 valve operation?
Backstreet just told me something about using a resistor to tie the ECU's spool line to ground if you are going to disable the VTEC to prevent the FI light from coming on.
don't trust backstreet. he is a devout hater of hydrocarbon vehicles and is likely trying to get you to fry yours so the trees and grass may be at peace. :p
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 4 May 2005