Mobil 1 Motorcycle oils

Scott, very interesting......thanks for posting the article.

I'd like to see Chuck write a technical article on Mobile 1 MX-4T, which is what I'm using in my VFR.

Maybe, you already have some MX-4T specific links. If yes, please post. Thanks in advance.

I'll ask him about it but he did tell me VTwin is the exact same additive package and I verified it with oil analysis, as the MX4T, just a different base oil vis plus the 20W-50 syns can be made w/o any viscosity improver at all and so can't shear down. That's what I see with it, still a 40 grade when I change it even though has ~3 % fuel dilution vs the GN4 10W-40 that was a 20 grade, barely. The VTwin doesn't shear at all. Has the highest HTHS, high temp/high shear vis I've ever seen. Was 5.44 and now 6.03, car oils are 2.8 ! All the bikes, many now, sport and HD have fuel dilution, 3-5 % and vis is really low on many. The G4N, good for nothing had 200 ppm of aluminum and 100 of iron. My bikes run 20 and 10. 10 times less, that is meaningful let me tell you. Bikes have aluminum composite cylinders. I can predict the ring and cylinder wear on my HD oil tests based on these numbers, 200 ppm of aluminum is a ton on any engine I've seen. If it was one of my tests I would abort and suspect a piston skirt scuff. Plus now that I have the new VTwin Super Syn that they thickened up to a high 50 grade like the HD syn oil, ~ 21 cSts, was 17, my tranny is butter smooth and never was before.

A good way to judge how much vis improver and possible shear is in an oil is by the ratio of the low and high temp vis:

20W-50 = 50/20 = 2.5
10W-40 = 40/10 = 4 !
5W-30 = 30/5 = 6 !!

I will only use 15 or 20W- 40's or 50's and use 15W-50 MB1 in all vehicles and the 20W-50 in all bikes since they have aluminum cylinders. In a pinch I would use the 15W-50 in a bike and have, the CBR had it at 200 miles. Now that the VTwin is even better that's all I would use in any bike.

Thanks for the detailed reply, Scott.

I just re-read my owner's manual and the primary oil weight recommended is SAE 10W-40, which is what I have been using. I change my oil at 2000-2200 miles, and this may be overkill, especially with the MX-4T.

Question: Why do you think Honda recommends 10W-40?

The manual (page 103) goes on to say. "Other viscosities shown in the following chart may be used when the average temperature in your riding area is within the indicated range." The low-temperature range for 20W-50 appears to be about 32 degrees F, so I could switch to the v-twin 20W-50 oil, as I never ride at temps below about 40 degrees F.

Given the advantages of the heavier oil, you'd think that Honda would mention the benefits, especially under "severe" operating conditions in higher ambient temperatures.

Good stuff, ScootR! That pretty well takes care of that debate. I might just give the MB1 20W50 oil a shot at the next change. Then I'll use 15W50 MB1 in the winter. The chart on the HD360 oxidation was great-256 hours and MB1 was still going strong.... :beer:

Now if we could just get them to drop the price a bit...$8.99/qrt is tough.

Here's some general information on motorcycle oils:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Here's their recommended oils:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Consumables.html#oil

No reason other than 10W-40's are big outside of the US. I test some and they all suck, have either wear problems or deposits problems. North American oil are far superior to all, they follow our lead and oil specs and even some of my tests in their approvals. The problem is 10W-40 is too much vis improver and they are not stable under high temp and form deposits. Your choose, I'm aware of the vis/temp chart from Honda and most other OEMS. Being in Texas, it's 15 or 20W-50's for me.

I run the V-twin 20w-50 in the summer, but find my valves clack on startup for almost 30 seconds in the winter with it. For this reason I use 4-stroke 10W-40 in the winter. All Mobil 1 of course. :D

So ScootR, are you not recommending Mobil1 red cap 20w50 at all any more?

tbzep, Mar 21 2005, 02:46 AMSo ScootR, are you not recommending Mobil1 red cap 20w50 at all any more?

I second that question?

I have the same issue as ULEWZ, not surprisingly since we're geographically pretty close. Even in the summer it can get pretty cold at night here on the bay, and my commute is only 1.2 miles each way. Cold starts and cold running are more of an issue for me so I favor lower viscocity oils like Rotella T or my bike spazzes out on me. I move south to either San Diego or Pearl Harbor in six months or so...after that I've planned to jump to red cap or the V-twin oil as I can find them...

coldcanuk, Mar 20 2005, 09:49 PMI second that question?

? Red cap now Extended Performance is a 15W-50, Vtwin is 20W-50. I use both. Vtwin hard to find and more $$$ but with the new formulation my tranny is smooth as silk now like never before. Both are damn good oils. I would be surprised if the 15W had cold start noise. I've ridden in 28F weather and never had problems but mines a VTEC ? No gear driven cams ? I don't know. I agree with Ulewz or anyone else, if the oil, any oil, makes your valves clatter for 30 seconds that would be totally unacceptable, don't do it. There are 10W-50's out there and I guess I would try one of them plus not all vis improvers are the same, 3 main types, and we test them in a cold box test cell and measure time for cams, rockers, turbos, etc... to get oil pressure and some vis improvers are not as good as others. I do know Ferrari uses 10W-60's ! Can't find these exotic oils in the states but would sure like to analyze them. As a side note, most of the HD diesel oils are now really 15W-45's more than 15W-40's. Why, to pass my Mack ring and liner wear tests, higher vis really helps. My Cummins rocker arm wear test is another, pass/fail limit is 20 mg weight loss, Mack requires 12, real good oils like DELO or Shell RT are < 10. The 20W-50 I ran once was 2 !!! Again, see way too much data on wear with higher vis oils. Low vis is because OEM's must meet CAFE standards and they'll take every 0.1 mpg they can get. Notice how high power levels are these days ? 500 hp Dodge trucks don't get 25 mpg easily. Plus the new SM oils have much lower levels of phos and zinc as they suspect they poison the Catcons. These are the main anti-wear and anti-oxidant additives and again OEM's don't care if YOUR engine wears out early, the have to meet EPA standards now out to +100,000 miles or pay big fines.

Hrm, would you run Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 or Delvac 1 5W40 then? You've seen my wear results -- they shear down a bit over 4000 miles while having good metal wear numbers. But if I change it every 4000, is it still OK?

(Number at http://www.berzerkeley.com/Oil/Oil20050213.htm, for those who care...)

How much fuel economy loss would it be, anyway, between a xW40 vs a xW50?

ScootR, Mar 21 2005, 04:20 AM? Red cap now Extended Performance is a 15W-50, Vtwin is 20W-50. I use both. Vtwin hard to find and more $$$ but with the new formulation my tranny is smooth as silk now like never before. Both are damn good oils. I would� be surprised if the 15W had cold start noise. I've ridden in 28F weather and never had problems but mines a VTEC ? No gear driven cams ? I don't know. I agree with Ulewz or anyone else, if the oil, any oil, makes your valves clatter for 30 seconds that would be totally unacceptable, don't do it. There are 10W-50's out there and I guess I would try one of them plus not all vis improvers are the same, 3 main types, and we test them in a cold box test cell and measure time for cams, rockers, turbos, etc... to get oil pressure and some vis improvers are not as good as others. I do know Ferrari uses 10W-60's ! Can't find these exotic oils in the states but would sure like to analyze them. As a side note, most of the HD diesel oils are now really 15W-45's more than 15W-40's. Why, to pass my Mack ring and liner wear tests, higher vis really helps. My Cummins rocker arm wear test is another, pass/fail limit is 20 mg weight loss, Mack requires 12, real good oils like DELO or Shell RT are < 10. The 20W-50 I ran once was 2 !!! Again, see way too much data on wear with higher vis oils. Low vis is because OEM's must meet CAFE standards and they'll take every 0.1 mpg they can get. Notice how high power levels are these days ? 500 hp Dodge trucks don't get 25 mpg easily. Plus the new SM oils have much lower levels of phos and zinc as they suspect they poison the Catcons. These are the main anti-wear and anti-oxidant additives and again OEM's don't care if YOUR engine wears out early, the have to meet EPA standards now out to +100,000 miles or pay big fines.

Thanks for the help Scootr.

Haven't seen the new Mobil Oils here yet? The Canadian Mobil website doesn't even mention them yet.

I guess I'll stick with red cap until the new V-Twin or Extended Performance show's up. There was a flyer this week that the local Crappy Tire store that had Mobil Syn's at 15% off, maybe they are dumping stock for the new lines coming in?


[image: Attached Image]

[quote=ScootR,Mar 20 2005, 08:53 AM]
I'll ask him about it but he did tell me VTwin is the exact same additive package and I verified it with oil analysis, as the MX4T, just a different base oil vis plus the 20W-50 syns can be made w/o any viscosity improver at all and so can't shear down. That's what I see with it, still a 40 grade when I change it even though has ~3 % fuel dilution vs the GN4 10W-40 that was a 20 grade, barely. The VTwin doesn't shear at all. Has the highest HTHS, high temp/high shear vis I've ever seen. Was 5.44 and now 6.03, car oils are 2.8 ! All the bikes, many now, sport and HD have fuel dilution, 3-5 % and vis is really low on many. The G4N, good for nothing had 200 ppm of aluminum and 100 of iron. My bikes run 20 and 10. 10 times less, that is meaningful let me tell you. Bikes have aluminum composite cylinders. I can predict the ring and cylinder wear on my HD oil tests based on these numbers, 200 ppm of aluminum is a ton on any engine I've seen. If it was one of my tests I would abort and suspect a piston skirt scuff. Plus now that I have the new VTwin Super Syn that they thickened up to a high 50 grade like the HD syn oil, ~ 21 cSts, was 17, my tranny is butter smooth and never was before.


ScootR, I was just rolling M1 20/50 on my finger tips and came up with the same result ! I concur.
:lol:
keep up the good work ! :thumbsup:

Last summer I switched over to the 15W-50 red cap. I thought that I noticed some new "noises" on cool morning starts, but thought I was being a "bike-o-chondriac"....I may switch back to a Mobil 1 10W-40 syn if I can find such a thing.

Any other Canucks using the "red cap" with no problems? Ken, Dude, Dennis - we're in the same area - what do you guys use??

I find it interesting that the MB1 synthetic products are Group IV and V base stocks! I thought they were just highly refined Group III's.

Chris ! Why ? Mobil started this and has always been Grp IV and V. They were the ones that tried to sue, and lost, Castrol for using Grp III's and calling it syn. Hell, there are probably Grp II's being used as syns now for that matter.

wczimmerman, Mar 21 2005, 09:02 AMI find it interesting that the MB1 synthetic products are Group IV and V base stocks!  I thought they were just highly refined Group III's.

:o

That's what I get for thinking....

"[WHACK!] Thank you, sir! May I have another? [WHACK!] Thank you, sir! May I have another?"

Feel better now ? Are you going on the TWT pie run Sunday ? I might.

This one Chris...

TWT Meet 03/26

ScootR, Mar 21 2005, 10:26 AMThis one Chris...

TWT Meet 03/26

Unfortunately, no. This weekend is Easter and we've got family in town, events all day Saturday as well as rehearsals for the Sunday service.

Man-we need to get together and go ride! I'll be commuting to Austin all next week...

Can someone please tell Mobil that they need to make it a little easier to find the 20W50?!? Only one store used to carry it here in town (Autozone), but they just told me that they stopped carrying it as of 2 weeks ago...

Advance Auto-no
OReilly Auto-no
Walmart-no
Autozone-no
No Pep Boys in the area

Nobody can order it, either. Ugh. :pissed:

Call your local Mobil dist. They will carry it. As far as charging less for it, I mean come on I have to retire someday?

I have but to no avail. I did find it online at Chapparal...

ScootR, Mar 21 2005, 04:25 PMI have but to no avail. I did find it online at Chapparal...

At ten bucks a quart plus "additional shipping fees for chemicals." So, let's say $50 per change for the oil alone. Sorry, but no thanks. scooter996 will need to fund his retirement from another source.

Chris, I talked to a guy at the local Advance Auto Supply today and he said he can and will order whatever oil I like. As long as they handle a distributor's products, they will special order them (with advance payment) even if they don't stock that specific product.

vfrjim2002, Mar 21 2005, 04:49 PMAt ten bucks a quart plus "additional shipping fees for chemicals." So, let's say $50 per change for the oil alone. Sorry, but no thanks. scooter996 will need to fund his retirement from another source.

Chris, I talked to a guy at the local Advance Auto Supply today and he said he can and will order whatever oil I like. As long as they handle a distributor's products, they will special order them (with advance payment) even if they don't stock that specific product.

I'll have to go to Advance and talk to the manager to order more than likely. The guy that answered the phone told me they couldn't order it. Thanks.

scooter996, Mar 21 2005, 04:01 PMCall your local Mobil dist.  They will carry it.  As far as charging less for it, I mean come on I have to retire someday?

How do I find my local distributor?

wczimmerman, Mar 21 2005, 10:57 PMHow do I find my local distributor?

Call this Mobile 1 number and ask: 1-800-662-4525.

Here, in Ohio, the United Dairy Farmers gas station/mini-marts with Mobil gas pumps sell both Mobile 1 MX4T 10W-40 and Mobile 1 V-Twin 20W-50 for $6.99 per quart.

Autozone has discontinued sales of Mobile 1 motorcycle oil.

Cyclegear has it now too but $11 per qt and I think $1 more for the Vtwin. Glad I get 10 gals at a time...free from Mobil ! Nah, nah, nah, nah. Sorry, just yoking around again. I do get mine free though :)