Last Friday I bought a 2002 with less than 3k miles. I picked it up near Jacksonville FL and rode it back to Indiana over Saturday and Sunday. 1095 miles in two days at highway speeds or better, and only one noticable problem - If I blip the throttle with the clutch pulled in during deceleration from high speeds, or after hard acceleration, the engine dies. Granted throttle blipping is a bad habit left over from a lifetime of riding race bikes with no idle circuits, and if I don't blip the throttle it doesn't die, but it shouldn't do this - right? The engine will immediately restart by letting out the clutch if I'm moving, or by shifting to neutral and pushing the button. Any thoughts, opinions, or solutions?
DaveM, Apr 7 2005, 10:32 AMIf I blip the throttle with the clutch pulled in during deceleration from high speeds, or after hard acceleration, the engine dies.
I've read of this before.
It's also somehting that VTRs do, and it's (apparently) because the ECU looks at the fact the bike is registering some speed that's WAAY out of whack with the engine speed, and that the clutch is pulled in, and goes, "Nup. This isn't happening - it's just a bad dream!", and kills the ignition.
Ah hah! This happened to me last Saturday. Doing about 80-85 on the freeway, clutch in, blip, downshift, and WTF? Engine died.
I've been trying to figure out how I messed up the downshift bad enough to kill the engine. hehe.
So, I've been blipping since I read Sport Riding Techniques. Should I stop? Do I even need to blip?
opus, Apr 6 2005, 11:20 PMSo, I've been blipping since I read Sport Riding Techniques.� Should I stop?� Do I even need to blip?
Blipping, done properly(timing's the key)will basically create a "smoother, seamless" downshift. Most "pro" schools teach blipping as a necessary technique.
I didn't use to, but I do now and deifinitely notice the difference...when I do it correctly goofy.gif
opus, Apr 7 2005, 12:20 AM
So, I've been blipping since I read Sport Riding Techniques. Should I stop? Do I even need to blip?
I blip all the time, down shifting at highway speed or around town, it's much smoother. The only time I don't blip is whan I come up to a red light and I'm already down in 4th or 3rd gear, I'll downshift and let the clutch out easy and make use of the engine braking along with lightly riding the brakes to come to
a stop. fing02.gif
PG.
enzed_viffer, Apr 6 2005, 10:35 PMI've read of this before.
It's also somehting that VTRs do, and it's (apparently) because the ECU looks at the fact the bike is registering some speed that's WAAY out of whack with the engine speed, and that the clutch is pulled in, and goes, "Nup. This isn't happening - it's just a bad dream!", and kills the ignition.
What's with these newer VFRs, First we lose the fantastic gear driven cam whine and now we can't play racer and blip the throttle on decelleration anymore! blink.gif
I knew we were in trouble when they took away the cool NACA ducts!!!!!! pissed.gif
Next thing you know, the VFRs will be doing most of the braking for us!! goofy.gif
Beck
95 (blippable throttle) VFR
I blip my '04 all the time when downshifting with no problems. It did however die a couple of times after blipping when tho engine was cold. No problems with it when it's warm.
Not one to rub it in.... but it works just fine on my 97, been doing it for years.
DaveM, Apr 7 2005, 12:32 AM... one noticable problem - If I blip the throttle with the clutch pulled in during deceleration from high speeds, or after hard acceleration, the engine dies.
Make sure your idle speed is set to the required RPMs.
If the revs are too low this will happen.
Make sure your idle speed is set to the required RPMs.
If the revs are too low this will happen.
There's a good thought. It shouldn't die when using standard riding techniques like blipping the throttle to downshift. Or even just for blipping fun. dry.gif
Hi,
I've been blipping my 03 the last two days practicing smoother downshift technique. I haven't had it stall yet. Bike just turned 1,600 miles on the clock. Your might possilby need the starter valves set? Don't know. just a guess.
The issue here is not really about "blipping when downshifting" or anything else. It's that when you pull the clutch in while going faster than about 40km/h (~20mph), the engine will shut off. Try it - see what happens.
enzed_viffer, Apr 6 2005, 09:29 PMThe issue here is not really about "blipping when downshifting" or anything else. It's that when you pull the clutch in while going faster than about 40km/h (~20mph), the engine will shut off. Try it - see what happens.
Maybe it's the rev limiter kicking in?
Well, I *know* it doesn't shut the engine down on mine, because recently I was riding without the restrictor in my Satantune high-mount, and pulled the clutch in at ~60mph to go past a cop sitting on the side of the road. The engine just dropped to idle.
However, on other forums I have read about this happening, to both VFRs and VTRs, so there's obviously summat not quite right.
My 03 gets it's throttle blipped every time I ride it at all sorts of speeds! Never had the engine die. Have had it die when I took off before letting it warm up properly. 100 yards out of my driveway at a stop sign, blurp...dead! Now I know better! Gotta let 'em warm up even in sunny AZ!! BLIP AWAY! Much better than the alternative for clutch preservation! Practice makes perfect!
Linky to previous discussion on this topic.
My 04 will die sometimes if the temp is under 150, I upped the idle alittle and it has helped.
BobT's link above describes the problem perfectly, and evidently there is not a known fix. I do appreciate the responses though, and for the time being I think I'll just learn to modify my riding style to accomodate this quirk. At some point I would like to find a solution though, since this seems to be a case where the ECU is outsmarting itself. It also really makes me cautious in heavy traffic. Does anyone know of a narrative description of the ECU's programming?
I've been blipping the throttle on my bone stock '02 for over 2 years now and engine has never died during the process. My idle is set at approximately 1300 rpms.
Every once in a while my 04 does that, usually though its when I'm going slow, in traffic, I'll give it a blip and the idle will get all screwy. I just kill it and restart it and its fine. Happened yesterday as a matter of fact. Usually happens once very 2 or 3 weeks. Doesn't usually bother me because I can feather the throttle to keep her moving in case it happens in an intersection or something.
Check your idle speed.. no issue to raise it up to 1400-1500 and see what happens.
This will happen repeatedly on mine if the idle speed is set too low, and it was when I took delivery. If the idle speed is set correctly it never happens.
Something is wrong with your shifting technique anyway if it takes you so long to switch that the engine spins all the way down to idle. The clutch should never be pulled in long enough for the engine to spin down that far on either a downshift or an upshift.
I blip/revmatch all my downshifts and I sit there like an idiot and blip the throttle when I'm stopped to hear the nice VFR sounds and it never ever dies.
One more thing: check your idle using an external tachometer. HS reported that a bike he tested was 400 rpm high on the bike's tach...
I've been riding for nary 40 years and I am an old bliper. In fact, not long ago I realized I like saying blip, almost as much as actually blipping.
In all my blipping years, including the VFR time, I've never experienced a negative blip. (any blip not considered good)
My advice is to blip hard and often whenever possible. fing02.gif
That is all.
Never knew it had a name - "blipping" - go figure. I just do it instinctively on my '02. No problems. I've been doing it for years in cars too - left over habit from amateur rally driving as a teenager in Europe.
I guess the trick is not to overrev - you're looking for what you think the rpms should be for your speed as you enter that gear. If you do it just right, you can do it without the clutch (on occasion)!
I haven't done the exact protocol as the alternate thread... but, why?
I "blip and toe" (the motorcycle equivalent of "heel & toe") to keep the revs over 7k. That's the point, isn't it? Keeping the revs in the power band as you decelerate? Bueller?
In general, as revs cross point X: clutch, blip to X+1500 / toe shifter down, release clutch, engine smoothly remains at X+1500.
Works for me.
wheel.gif
vleigh, Apr 7 2005, 06:57 PM
I haven't done the exact protocol as the alternate thread... but, why?
I "blip and toe" (the motorcycle equivalent of "heel & toe") to keep the revs over 7k. That's the point, isn't it? Keeping the revs in the power band as you decelerate? Bueller?
In general, as revs cross point X: clutch, blip to X+1500 / toe shifter down, release clutch, engine smoothly remains at X+1500.
Works for me.
wheel.gif
Ok - Down shifting is not where the problem manifests itself. Your bikes may actually be experiencing the fault, but since the clutch is back out before engine RPM drops, you'll never see it. As I said in my original post, finding the problem is the result of a bad habit - too many years of riding two strokes - anytime the clutch is in you blip the throttle to keep it cleaned out, even when coming to a stop. Absolutely not necessary on a modern, fuel injected four stroke. Oddly enough though, none of my CBs or Gold Wings have ever cared about my bad habits.
Anyway, habit or not I already love this bike, and am willing to change! I am proud to say that I have ridden the past five days and not killed it once (other than intentionally just to prove to myself that it would do it). I think I am ready to move on to real VFR owner issues like surging and subframe recalls.
Thanks again for everyone's interest. Dave
End of thread · 26 posts recovered Wayback Machine snapshot 6 May 2005