VFR Discussion Group -> spoiler! race results, MotoGP

that was one of the best finishes I've seen :beer:
what did ya think of that last lap?

Block passing is OK in motocross and supercross where the speeds are relatively low. Inexcusable in moto gp. How can they let him get away with that? Just because he is Rossi? His ego couldn't accept that Sete had just spanked him, especially on the last lap. You know what they say about paybacks! Wish Nicky had stayed on for a few more laps. Might have been real interesting.

My initial reaction also is that was wrong. Is that what they want to promote? Get the inside line and smash into the other guy, whoever is left standing wins? I agree, Rossi got spanked.

Difficult to call - did Rossi get into the corner too hot and push Gibernau out, or did he just duck under Gibernau's line ? Either way, I didn't care for it much when I saw it either - the Gauloises Yamaha Team press release called it 'a brave pass on the brakes' but I thought it looked a little desperate.

Tamada and Checa also bumped under braking, and Hopkins and Rolfo came together on the first lap.

Rossi a 'hijo de puta' ?

Hmmm. It looked more than a little desperate to me. To be sure, had Gibernau not been there to act as a berm, Rossi would still have made the corner, but had SG been on his tail at the time Rossi would have been toast.

Call me old fashioned, but when I played at the club race game it was the responsibility of the passer to make a clean pass. If you tried a pass and there was a collision, you almost always wore the goat's horns. "That's racing," didn't cut it.

I think the same rule applies here (unless perhaps you're Valentino Rossi). Wasn't it just last season that Tamada was penalized for a less offensive move (I think he punted SG too) than Rossi pulled here?

Well...I subscribe to the motogp site and they have video of the incident from all angles. Gibernau was trying to defend the inside, but came in kinda wide and was gonna square it off. By the time he starts to turn you can see that he can likely catch Rossi out of the corner of his eye. In fact, from the shot inside the corner it looks like he actually turns into Rossi. Rossi also looks like he would have held a pretty tight inside line from that angle.

I kind figured this since the penalty was not issued, and the multiple angles makes it look like what I think it was, racing plain and simple. From one side it looks like Rossi was going in too hot and almost t-boned Gib, and from the other it looks like Gib turned into Rossi.

04asphalt, Apr 10 2005, 07:34 PM 
that was one of the best finishes I've seen :beer: 
what did ya think of that last lap? 
 

From my perspective I say SG bumped into Rossi... Rossi didn't bump into SG... if Rossi had done the bumping that would have been wrong... Rossi did what he had to do to win... spectacular racing... had me on the edge of my seat...

Too bad Rossi makes inline 4s look so competitive... that 1939 engine architect can only win if throttled by little God spawn himself...

vfrjim2002, Apr 11 2005, 04:18 AM Wasn't it just last season that Tamada was penalized for a less offensive move...

Tamada was indeed disqualified from the Motegi race in 2003.

John Hopkins was also declared a 'dangerous rider' in 2003 and prohibited from racing at the next round after hitting Carlos Checa.

Ironically, in 2004 Loris Capirossi took out Hopkins and six other riders at the same track on the same corner on the same lap and was not penalized. Hopkins suffered broken ribs in the incident.

Art. 1.21.2 of the FIM World Championship Regulations requires all contestants to ride "in a responsible manner which does not cause danger to other competitors"

Guess it depends on what country is posing the danger <_<

I played that back a few times. I wouldn't say "that's racing", more like freaking great racing! :beer: Both guys tried to occupy the same piece of track at the same time. No crash no foul. Sete did not complain on the podium interview I saw. To his credit imho. That's good racing. :beer:

I've seen the reply backwards, forwards, from the camera that shows Rossie accellerator hand, slo mo etc.

Rossi admitted in the post race interview that Sete "for sure will be very angry but that is racing" or words to that effect, he also to making a mistake a few corners before the end (he almost lost the front and went wide!)

Sete just took his normal line into the last corner expecting thast Rossi was too far back.

HEY SETE!!!

NEWS FLASH.....

ROSSI IS NEVER TOO FAR BACK!!!!!!!

In the slow mo of Rossi's right hand area Sete actually hit Rossi's brake lever (hence his sore forearm, no the wrist, no wait shoulder - ??? at least try to remember which one it was Sete...), which would have pushed Rossi wide regardless of what Rossi was trying to do.

On the podium Sete couldn't even hold the bottle of champagne? but no evidence of ice anywhere? He was holding various parts of his left arm then in the interview it was his shoulder?

Geeze what a wimp, I'm amazed he didn't start crying again again on the podium - sure looked like he was going to

This is racing at its peak. Sete had the whole race to try and get a winning gap on Rossi and couldn't.

Sete came down on top of Rossi and made no attempt to give Rossi racing room, a more thinking rider would have let Rossi run wide and come underneath to take the win. Sete should have known what Rossi is capable of, he has raced him often enough.

Regardless the body language on the podium was great to read....

AND remember Rossi did also extend the hand to shake Sete, which after half a sec of thinking he did - the best move he made all race.

It was Sete's race to lose and he did.

In my humble opinion of course.... some of you may think I am being harsh on Sete but this is not a boys club, it's GP racing the pinicle of our sport and close racing should be applauded least we end up being as boring as Formula One.

No one can deny it was a great race, has got everyone talking and that has to be great for the sport. I bet that more people will watch next race because of what happened, Sete should be gracious and realise that it is only the first race of a very long year.

Greg

That was an awesome race. To me it looked like Rossi was well inside of SG when SG turned into him, hard. The fact that Rossi had his left foot down prior to contact made me a little suspicious, like he thought he was going to get off track. I think SG handled it pretty well, considering how mad he probably is. If it was Biaggi, he'd have been in tears and boo hooing all weekend.

That was a terrific race. The last lap was about as exciting as it gets. I hope the rest of the season is that competitive. The Hondas looked strong.

What a great race finish!

It sure looked to me that Sete was trying to close the door on Valentino, but he was simply fractions of a second late; Rossi was already too much up inside for him to go anywhere but into Sete. Sete sure had to know that Rossi was going to stuff it under him in that last turn. Rossi's foot came down only after Sete turned in and Valentino knew it was going to be pretty desperate!

This was just great racing. Rossi is not only supremely talented, he's also very determined to win. You can't apply club racing rules to this level of competition, there's way too much at stake for gentlemen's brownie points to matter much.

The Honda's are looking pretty strong, too. It doesn't look like Rossi is going to walk away from them very soon. Should be a great season!

Even if being a Rossi fan until Saturday, I was dissapointed by the last curve :( I think MotoGP is not a kindergarten, but it is not hockey either. I would wonder if this happens to Rossi somewhere in the middle of the race, or even at the first curve and he falls down.

Also, many comments were that actually SG was first leaning in the curve and Rossi just came as a blind rocket.

GO SETE GO!!! :thumbsup:

BTW what has happened again to US wonderchild Hayden? :huh:

Ahhh, yes, the passion! Yes Rossi won, Sete lost and as for Nicky - well let's just say his head ain't quite there yet. He's got the raw talent, but not the mental focus to compete with the big dogs at this level - y'all just don't throw it on the ground when you're in 3rd with 8 to go, Nick.

As to the final pass and to all Sete supporters: Get over it! This is racing at the highest level and the testicular fortitude that Rossi showed at the end was freaking brilliant! There'll surely be more to come, but IMHO no one has what Rossi has - he's the real deal, the complete package - and it's going to be a bloody great season, but the fighting at the top is going to be between Sete and Vale - seems no one else has what they've got. But hey, it's racing, and we'll see what the future holds, eh?

Avanti Doctore! :thumbsup:

Pics of the turn

You can see clear as day that Rossi was well on the inside and had room. Appears to me as though SG turned into him.

Mmmmmm.
Sete definitely left too much room open at the inside of the last corner...should have known better as Rossi's cornering lines always seem to be just a little tighter than everyone else's.....so, Sete's mistake there.

But, Rossi made an extremely aggressive pass that I think was very possibly over the edge in terms of sportsmanship, rules, etc.

Yeah it's racing and all, but Rossi lacked in character and integrity on that one for me........Sete should get tough and blast him in the press instead of being the "gentleman" all the time. I respect that alot but there's a point when you can become a wallflower......

jonda, Apr 10 2005, 10:16 PMWell...I subscribe to the motogp site and they have video of the incident from all angles.  Gibernau was trying to defend the inside, but came in kinda wide and was gonna square it off.  By the time he starts to turn you can see that he can likely catch Rossi out of the corner of his eye.  In fact, from the shot inside the corner it looks like he actually turns into Rossi.  Rossi also looks like he would have held a pretty tight inside line from that angle. 

I kind figured this since the penalty was not issued, and the multiple angles makes it look like what I think it was, racing plain and simple.  From one side it looks like Rossi was going in too hot and almost t-boned Gib, and from the other it looks like Gib turned into Rossi.

I agree here, I saw several angles and Rossi looked to be on his line and along side when Giberneau tried to square off the corner. Did you see Rossi put his left foot down ala motocross to keep from low-siding? I think they made the right call!

BusyLittleShop, Apr 10 2005, 11:19 PMFrom my perspective I say SG bumped into Rossi... Rossi didn't bump into SG... if Rossi had done the bumping that would have been wrong...  Rossi did what he had to do to win... spectacular racing...  had me on the edge of my seat... 
 
Too bad Rossi makes inline 4s look so competitive... that 1939 engine architect can only win if throttled by little God spawn himself...

I agree, it was a great finish by two of the best and most skilled riders on the planet..(just the fact that neither went down illustrates this fact).....I think SG thought Rossi was a few feet further back, and it looked to me that they made heavy contact when both tried to take the same spot on the track. Thats just hard racing and there should be no penalty for the contact.

Following the contact, it did appear that Rossi drifted wide, leaving SG with no where to go except into a gravel trap. Again, this was the last few turns of the last lap .......Did Rossi go wider than he had too after contact, I think so, but did he do it intentionally, I doubt it. At the speeds they were traveling at the point of contact, it was all instinct by both riders just to stay up right, I doubt even Rossi had the time to think about intentionally going wide just to take SG out of the race.

It was just the last lap of a Motogp race, (in Spain yet, a place where MotoGP is bigger than Nascar is here in the Southeast states.) It was just hard racing, and nothing reckless by Rossi. Now if this had happen early in the race, I think it could have been viewed differently by the FIM....... but they might also be loong at SG as well for the contact.

Nicky was a disappointment only because he went down. His riding in the 20 laps before he fell were very impressive. If he rides like that the rest of the season, he will be right there with Rossi at the end, fighting for the title.
This easily could have turned into Nick's 1st win had he not fallen.....it would have been an easy pass of both SG and Rossi when they went wide after contact....... but that racing.

I'm sure they'll "work it out" in a later race, Rossi is probably expecting to get stuffed at some point.
I would be curious what Wayne Rainey and Kevin Schwantz would say about this. Bet they'd think it was cool.

Rubbing is not racing in motorbikes. I hope they both get warnings from the FIM as they both look 51% wrong.

As for Hayden he went into the turn just a smidge too wide on a windy day that blew dust onto the track, and tucks the front. Don't know if that can be construed as not having his head on straight, but it does demonstrate what its like to live on the edge in MotoGP - two inches the wrong way and you're on yer face. Certainly wouldn't be the first GP rider to experience that, would he ?

AZVFR, Apr 11 2005, 03:45 PMDid you see Rossi put his left foot down ala motocross to keep from low-siding? I think they made the right call!

He did that many times throughout the race for some reason.......that was not the only time.

Das Bone, Apr 11 2005, 03:45 PMMmmmmm.
Sete definitely left too much room open at the inside of the last corner...should have known better as Rossi's cornering lines always seem to be just a little tighter than everyone else's.....so, Sete's mistake there.

But, Rossi made an extremely aggressive pass that I think was very possibly over the edge in terms of sportsmanship, rules, etc.

Yeah it's racing and all, but Rossi lacked in character and integrity on that one for me........Sete should get tough and blast him in the press instead of being the "gentleman" all the time. I respect that alot but there's a point when you can become a wallflower......

Welll, yes I will agree that Rossi's pass was aggressive, but I don't think it was over the edge nor was it unsportsmanlike nor did he break any rules - if the FIM was going to throw the book at him for that it certanly would have what with this being a race in Spain. And the "slighted" one being Sete. Rossi took a hard inside line, Sete squared off, they bumped, Rossi won. Finito.

Now lookee here, what we have on our hands is the most amazing championship race on the planet with some of the most talented racers on equally amazing machinery. If there's a bump and tussle here and there well so be it - but IMHO (which ain't all that humble) Vale has way more character and integrity than a whole lotta whiny ass wankers in the GP paddock - and he just happens to be a pure winner which rankles a lot of people. Oh well. Too bad. However I want MORE of this!!!! Unlike the ultraboring AMA SBk Suzuki cup - :sleep:

melvis, Apr 11 2005, 04:01 PM and he just happens to be a pure winner which rankles a lot of people. Oh well.

Well, that's inaccurate atleast in my case. Rossi's obviously the most talented rider in GP....I just feel that he made a mistake and Sete got by him, and in trying to get back in front pushed a bad position.....that simple...nothing to do with a bias. :blink:

Das Bone, Apr 11 2005, 08:45 AM
Mmmmmm.
Sete definitely left too much room open at the inside of the last corner...should have known better as Rossi's cornering lines always seem to be just a little tighter than everyone else's.....so, Sete's mistake there.

Good point... I think SG thought he closed the door on Rossi... but became really angry as Rossi got through anyway for the win... I've known racers to shrug off contact... but what really pisses them off is when their best laid strategy gets defeated and they feel conquered...

Das Bone, Apr 11 2005, 04:10 PMWell, that's inaccurate atleast in my case.  Rossi's obviously the most talented rider in GP....I just feel that he made a mistake and Sete got by him, and in trying to get back in front pushed a bad position.....that simple...nothing to do with a bias.  :blink:

I meant no disrespect to you fine person - I see no bias here. However Sete also made a mistake in leaving all that space open on the inside, which Rossi dove into. Yeah it was ballsy - yeah it was tight - yeah it was insane - but damn did it ever make for some bad ass racing! Can't wait for Estoril :beer:

Sete did the everything for winning in Jerez and showed the world that he can really challenge Valentino Rossi ( well, on the Honda..). And that means challenge one of the best riders ever. But let's have some elemental points regarding the race finish.

1- Rossi went wide in the previous lap. That was the reason for the spaniard to be in front. It was Rossi's mistake, not his pace or skills over Valentino. Rossi passed him at the moment he decided to make the move ( 3 laps to go ) and clearly opened 1/3 second gap. For me looks like he had a little rest.

2- Their pace was impressive. Nicky, for example was riding "por las paredes" at the very limit to follow their pace, and IMO that was the reason for him going down. There was a half 1/2 second gap between them and Nicky at that time.

3- Sete left the door open. A gate, actually.
Is that Valentino behind you?? C'mon !! ,Sete...
He went a little too much wide in the last turn IMO. That Jerez Last turn is really tight. Then he tried to close the door. Vale was there, of course. If one were to blame... it was Sete. Same move Schummy did on Villeneuve many years ago... and he got disqualyfied and labeled as "bad boy".

At least, I'll say that I lived 10 years in Spain, and learn to love motorcycling there. Motorcycles in Spain are the most important sport after Futbol ( soccer here ) and I will be very happy if Sete can beat Valentino and Yamaha on the Honda ( is there any other bike? B) ) but I won't be easy.It won't be easy...

TwistedGrip, Apr 11 2005, 12:16 PM

At least, I'll say that I lived 10 years in Spain, and learn to love motorcycling there. Motorcycles in Spain are the most important sport after Futbol ( soccer here ) and I will be very happy if Sete can beat Valentino and Yamaha on the Honda ( is there any other bike?  B) ) but I won't be easy.It won't be easy...

Sure, gas gas, Sherico, and Montesa.......oh ya, that's Honda too


but I agree with your post..............just hard racing from two riders who both wanted the win.....

I'm sure most of SG's anger was directed toward himself

I have little doubt that Rossi's fan club will support him no matter what. I have but two small observations. First, Rossi got away with what he did solely because he is Rossi. Tamada's disqualification was for much less offensive conduct. Second, as to good racing requiring the sort of desperation that Rossi fell victim to here, one need only replay the WSB round at Imola when Edwards beat Bayliss for the title. That was the best racing I have EVER seen, bar none. Two guys going at it hammer and tongs for damn near two hours straight. I don't remember an instance in which one stooped to this sort of pass.

Nonetheless, since the the FIM doesn't have the balls to bring Vale to heel he's the winner. I think that's too bad, Rossi is a better rider than that.

vfrjim2002, Apr 11 2005, 12:58 PMI have little doubt that Rossi's fan club will support him no matter what. I ahve but two small observations. First, Rossi got away with what he did solely because he is Rossi. Tamada's disqualification was for much less offensive conduct. Second, as to good racing requiring the sort of desparation that Rossi fell victim to here, one need only replay the WSB round at Imola when Edwards beat Bayliss for the title. That was the best racing I have EVER seen, bar none. Two guys going at it hammer and tongs for damn near two hours straight. I don't remember an instance in which one stooped to this sort of pass.

Nonetheless, since the the FIM doesn't have the balls to bring Vale to heel he's the winner. I think that's too bad, Rossi is a better rider than that.

I disagree......racing at the level (I think everyone will agree is nothing like we seehere in the AMA) is so intense, that the riders that make it that far are not only the best, but driven to do one thing......WIN

what happen between SG and Rossi was caused by neither rider being willing to accept 2ed place...........and if they don't feel that way, they have no business in MotoGP........

As my old coach used to tell me... "Winning isn't everything, but, Losing isn't anything"