MotoGP: Honda seems to be doing decent with the good riders. Nicky just isn't having a good season so far.
World Superbike: Suzuki dominated as Troy Corser smokes everyone.
AMA Superbike: Suzuki powered Mladin and Spies stomp all over the Hondas. The only shining light to ending the Suzuki reign is from a Ducati.
To be fair, I understand to a degree that the AMA teams no longer have the HRC support from Japan and they are coping/changing to meet that challenge. But-c'mon! What in the world is going on with the Suzuki's that they are SO dominant? Mladin had a 12 second lead at one point! Troy Corser had time to show off on the final laps! :pissed:
MotoGP: Honda seems to be doing decent with the good riders. Nicky just isn't having a good season so far.
World Superbike: Suzuki dominated as Troy Corser smokes everyone.
AMA Superbike: Suzuki powered Mladin and Spies stomp all over the Hondas. The only shining light to ending the Suzuki reign is from a Ducati.
To be fair, I understand to a degree that the AMA teams no longer have the HRC support from Japan and they are coping/changing to meet that challenge. But-c'mon! What in the world is going on with the Suzuki's that they are SO dominant? Mladin had a 12 second lead at one point! Troy Corser had time to show off on the final laps! :pissed:
yeah I feel the same. Really disapointed to see miquel get edged out of a podium spot in the last turn. One thing for sure, mladin is a great rider, it's not like all the gsxr riders are that fast, but the 1krr seems worse off then last year.
maybe if they make a production v5 it will be allowed in superbike? yeah kinda early in the life of the 1krr to say that but it aint winnin? the 'win on Sunday, sell on Monday' rule must be hurting honda.
Yea the Suzuki are dominating superbikes this year, Vermillian is holding his own on his CBR in WSB, but down on power big time. It was obvious that the Ducati Hodgson was riging was holding up spies Suzuki, just didnt have the experience to get around the guy until traffic held him up.
They are gonna have to find some power to keep up with the Suzuki's - All the Hondas are having development problems this year, seems to be a repete of last year so far, with the exception of WSB of course. Curtis Roberts actually seemed relieved to be spared the embarrasment of losing in a legitimate race - out with clutch problems, I cant stand that guy! I feel sorry for Jake Z he is such a good racer, I hope they get the kinks worked out. 98 has got to be up front again soon!
In supersport It was Nice to See Hacking hold off the Hayden Brothers I never much cared for Kawasakis. I like to see closer racing, if its gonna be 6 second gaps from 1st, second and third in AMA this year I am gonna lose interest in a hurry.
Speed Coverage is a yawner too, could they spice it up a bit? They brought in Freddy Spensor but they got him on a short leash, that annoucner just puts me to sleep? whats his name? Too bad they cant get some of those british announcers from WSB, maybe Neil Hodgson can bring some of his press buds over to take over for those boring Speed guys.
Those smoking wheel spins coming out of the turns were great!! I kept calling the fiance and kids in to see and they were like "uhhhh, ok." Oh well, I though it was good stuff!
Corser doesn't surprise me at all...he stood out amongst a fleet of fairly similar Ducati's and did you see what he did last year for Fogerty? Those bikes are cool but not podium worthy! I actually hoped he might hop to a major ride in Motogp just because I think he is better than Gibernau.
Mladin threw a fit last year when the rules changed concerning airbox size and left the Suzuki's down on power. Suzuki came back with a vengence in the redesign, and gave him exactly what he wanted, so no surprises there. Plus he and Duhamel are pretty even on talent, but not years. Duhamel is older than I am ...and man, I feel OLD.... My question is, where the hell is Zemke? I think he needs to find his Jeremy Burgess to be competative...
Moto GP? Can only be summed up in one word...Rossi. Recently reading an article in RRWorld concerning slipper clutches some insider was talking about how Rossi actually slipped his clutch manually on four strokes before the current technology came online. The only other rider to do it before him? Mick Doohan. While I am sure they didn't invent the technique, the man is now a legend in his own time. The RCV might be the easiest bike to win on, but it has to race against the harderst rider to beat.
Nicky Haden? Never thought he had it and I still don't. He just never looks real smooth to me. The greatest American talent on the track is Colin Edwards. He might even have a world championship if Honda hadn't screwed him after his winning superbike season a couple of years ago. Now I fear he doesn't have the edge to win a championship but I guarantee you he will be on the podium this year. The second best American talent would have to be John Hopkins, if he could just get on a decent ride we might see him at the top. There is my second question, how can Suzuki make such an incredible machine for the road and such a POS for motogp? Go figure.
The way HRC shuffles their support around is curious. Certainly when they put their mind to it they will match a rider with a bike that can win. Right now it seems they lack focus around the CRR1000RR. Makes me wonder if something wicked is coming around the corner...Do I see small batches of V shaped engines on thinly disguised race bikes with lights....hmmmmmm...stranger things have been known to happen...
Yeah-Chris has talent! I would like to see him move up to MotoGP in a year or so and get on an RC211V! I think he could give Rossi a run for his money. I sure hope Honda gets it together soon...Maybe a few races where the Suzuki's spank 'em will wake the sleeping giant?
HS-I agree with you on the announcing, too. The MotoGP and WSB guys (Brits) do a "cracking" job of announcing.
HispanicSlammer, Apr 27 2005, 07:31 PM Curtis Roberts actually seemed relieved to be spared the embarrasment of losing in a legitimate race - out with clutch problems, I cant stand that guy!
OMG, you should of heard his pre-race interview over the P.A. system. The P.A. guy asked him about stradigy and Curtis pretty much said "my bike is not good, if I don't finish well its not my fault". Heck of an attitute to have while on the grid before a race. :pissed:
VFRMike, Apr 27 2005, 07:33 PMThose smoking wheel spins coming out of the turns were great!! I kept calling the fiance and kids in to see and they were like "uhhhh, ok." Oh well, I though it was good stuff!
VFRMike.
LMAO, yeah I do the same thing and get pretty much the same reaction.
Matt has dominated AMA for ages anyway and Troy has been stuck on uncompetitive machinery for a while. Chris V will be there soon as will Muggas. I think all together there are 7 Australians in WSB this year?
MotoGP: Honda seems to be doing decent with the good riders. Nicky just isn't having a good season so far.
World Superbike: Suzuki dominated as Troy Corser smokes everyone.
AMA Superbike: Suzuki powered Mladin and Spies stomp all over the Hondas. The only shining light to ending the Suzuki reign is from a Ducati.
To be fair, I understand to a degree that the AMA teams no longer have the HRC support from Japan and they are coping/changing to meet that challenge. But-c'mon! What in the world is going on with the Suzuki's that they are SO dominant? Mladin had a 12 second lead at one point! Troy Corser had time to show off on the final laps! :pissed:
There is other racing to watch! FIM SuperSport is dominated by Ten Kate Winston Honda 600RR. Honda needs to get Ten Kate to export a couple bikes to race in AMA SuperSport! Why they insist on only contesting FX is beyond me. They want to be dominant in 600, but only race against non factory teams. I just saw their commercial touting the Honda "Sweep" at the 200. Pretty shady advertising, since they were the only factory team in the 200. What about the fact that Vincent Hascovic is really challenging in FX? Sure on a Suzuki, but he's on a less suported team, and pushing #98, and #1 in FX. I still love to watch the Hayden Bros in AMA SuperSport. Who cares what they ride? They are very skilled and race each other hard. I like that Michael Jordan has stepped up his team for this season. Great showing at Daytona, and a couple strong riders. I just wish he had stayed with Yamaha. Guys like Robert Jensen, Opie Caylor, Geoff May, etc. These are the guys that you or I could (I have) see race or ride track days locally. Watching May wheelie out of a corner all the way down the straight to the brake marker was especially memorable in a CCS race at Homestead. Watching Jensen and Caylor mix it up at Jennings during a track day was also great. Jensen set the track record that day, then went on to set a record at Talledaga all while testing the new Michelin Powers. He was on a R1, and Caylor was on a 600. Opie would catch him and pull along side in the turns, but the R1 would pull away hard coming out of the turn!
...Still trying to remember when was the last time that Suzuki won a race in MotoGP... ahhh.. I remember now : NEVER !!! :P Suzuki is not a contender in the most important and technologically advanced motorcyle racing category in the world. Best riders on the best bikes. :goofy: Last time they won a World Championship in 500 was with Roberts Juniors... and before that was back in times of Kevin Schwantz... Not a real contender. On the other side, Honda has won it all. No other manufacturer has as many titles in 500 and MotoGP as Honda. ... Now only if this guy Valentino Rossi would like to ride for Honda again... :D
HispanicSlammer, Apr 27 2005, 07:20 PMMatt needs to move on to bigger competition, WSB or GP, all the other champs went on to the wider world racing. Yea its a risk but come on.
Didn't he try the old 500 GP class a few years back, and suck? I recall reading his statements to the effect of he wanted to stay the big fish in the small pond. As in AMA racing champ not World level also ran. :goofy:
Sure, he's fast but he should move up. Then we wouldn't be saying, anyone but Mladin. Hell if he was an underdog rider on the world level, I might be inclined to root for him as a past AMA champ. But as dominator of the AMA SB class for so long, I gotta go the other way. He should have moved up. But if I had the paycheck he's got.... Can't blame the guy in that respect. :beer:
OTOH, it's kinda like music, I wanna see the bands that are it in for the music, not the money. And the racers that love the race, not only the cash. Of course, cash is King, so WTF do I know. :goofy:
I think it's all in the development support for the bike and the riders. Per Freddie Spencer at his school, Honda America is taking a completely different tack here. The majority of club racers use Suzukis and Yamahas, because it is just too expensive to use HRC kit to race a Honda. This brand loyalty carriers into later racing careers.
With no HRC support Honda America is starting from ground zero in Superbikes. That is why you're getting Zemke leaving the race with fueling and clutch issues.
It may take a year for them to get on track, but I expect they will be back on top similar to FX where there is no support from HRC. While it hurts to watch Honda do so poorly, in the long run it will be good for the sport and Honda racing to get cheaper racing support and more newblood racing Hondas. It's good for us to, because ultimately a lot more real racing technology will trickle down to street bikes. It will not just be the Honda RC211V spin we get now.
VFR4Lee, Apr 28 2005, 03:46 AMDidn't he try the old 500 GP class a few years back, and suck? I recall reading his statements to the effect of he wanted to stay the big fish in the small pond. As in AMA racing champ not World level also ran. :goofy:
He raced the Cagiva for a season--I think he was 19 or 20yrs old at the time. His best finish was a 6th which isn't too bad considering the Cagiva wasn't a top machine and he had to deal with Kocinski as a teammate.
Why would Mladin move if he wasn't guaranteed a *competitve* ride in MotoGP? As it stands, he's closely tied with Suzuki (including his own race team, dealership) and the Suzuki MotoGP bike just doesn't have it. Besides, in the US, he can travel by motorhome with his family--not so easy on a worldwide series.
jonda, Apr 27 2005, 02:35 PMNicky Haden? Never thought he had it and I still don't. He just never looks real smooth to me.
True, but you can't argue with his results in AMA. I mean, he was spankin' 'em. I agree that watching his riding sometimes, he's leaning OVER the ragged edge, but he still seems to go damned fast. I wonder how much of his lack of results (if you can call them that) is lack of intimate knowledge of the tracks? He's done fairly well, I thought. This is his second year? I remember reading that he was playing a PlayStation 2 racing game that had most of the tracks on it so that he would have SOME idea of the track before he got there. So is it still a learning curve? I honestly dunno.
I'll grant you that I'm a little biased. All the Hayden boys are from my town, and as I type this, I'm sitting about three miles from their parents' house. When they're in town, they're usually in the Honda shop where I help out sometimes. So I'd pull for them even if they were finishing last every week.
I think Nicky'll come into his own in GP. And Tommy and Roger are certainly making everybody in AMA work hard...and since the shop I help at also sells Kawies, it works out alright.
WarriorRacer#13, Apr 28 2005, 09:47 AMTrue, but you can't argue with his results in AMA. I mean, he was spankin' 'em. I agree that watching his riding sometimes, he's leaning OVER the ragged edge, but he still seems to go damned fast. I wonder how much of his lack of results (if you can call them that) is lack of intimate knowledge of the tracks? He's done fairly well, I thought. This is his second year? I remember reading that he was playing a PlayStation 2 racing game that had most of the tracks on it so that he would have SOME idea of the track before he got there. So is it still a learning curve? I honestly dunno.
I'll grant you that I'm a little biased. All the Hayden boys are from my town, and as I type this, I'm sitting about three miles from their parents' house. When they're in town, they're usually in the Honda shop where I help out sometimes. So I'd pull for them even if they were finishing last every week.
I think Nicky'll come into his own in GP. And Tommy and Roger are certainly making everybody in AMA work hard...and since the shop I help at also sells Kawies, it works out alright.
Hurricane249, Apr 28 2005, 10:51 AMAre you an Apollo guy? :huh:
Ummmmm...do you mean did I go to Apollo High School? No. I didn't grow up in Owensboro. I moved here about 8 years ago. My wife grew up here, tho. And graduated from Apollo. Class of '89.
WarriorRacer#13, Apr 28 2005, 12:50 PMUmmmmm...do you mean did I go to Apollo High School? No. I didn't grow up in Owensboro. I moved here about 8 years ago. My wife grew up here, tho. And graduated from Apollo. Class of '89.
Are am I being made fun of and don't realize it?
If knew a way to make fun of you I promise that I would. :P I was wondering if you went to Apollo. I played baseball against them in high school, loved clearing that blue monster they had back in the day. B)
They still have it. And still have a helluva baseball team...produced in recent years, Brad Wilkerson, now starting for the Washington Nationals.
If you played Apollo, you may've played my HS, Madisonville-North Hopkins. We had a decent team (not that I was part of it, I played football) and played Apollo in most sports, including the sound thrashing they usually gave us in football.
Sorry to go off subject...back to my point. My money's still on Nicky to give a pretty good performance.
WarriorRacer#13, Apr 28 2005, 03:19 PMThey still have it. And still have a helluva baseball team...produced in recent years, Brad Wilkerson, now starting for the Washington Nationals.
If you played Apollo, you may've played my HS, Madisonville-North Hopkins. We had a decent team (not that I was part of it, I played football) and played Apollo in most sports, including the sound thrashing they usually gave us in football.
Sorry to go off subject...back to my point. My money's still on Nicky to give a pretty good performance.
Yup, played Madisonville quite often too. I played at Marshall County, also played for American Legion Post 31 in Paducah. We had a decent team; Steve Finley, Terry Shumpert, Joe Hall, and a few others that ended playing minor league ball. :)
WarriorRacer#13, Apr 28 2005, 03:47 PMI'll grant you that I'm a little biased. All the Hayden boys are from my town, and as I type this, I'm sitting about three miles from their parents' house. When they're in town, they're usually in the Honda shop where I help out sometimes. So I'd pull for them even if they were finishing last every week.
I think Nicky'll come into his own in GP. And Tommy and Roger are certainly making everybody in AMA work hard...and since the shop I help at also sells Kawies, it works out alright.
Damn, that is awesome! I help out sometimes in a bike shop myself, and an ex racer also works there part time. Not a Hayden, for sure! He's was really good at the local level, and built me one heck of a motor for my F3 racebike! But, not nearly at the level of a Hayden bro...
For the start of his 3rd year Nicky is doing just fine, 1st year two podiums, two crashes and 5th in points and rookie of the year.
Second year two podiums, two crashes, one mechanical dnf out two races due to training injury and he still finished 8th in points.
Two races into this year a screw up cost him a legit second place then a 7th in crappy conditions at Estoril, 11th in points going into this weekend, he'll be fine.
Shit Doohan took six years to win his first title with about 4 guys of Rossi's ability...Schwantz, Lawson, Rainey, Gardner.
None of the above mentioned guys won a title in their first three years in GP.
Give the boy a chance, your all spoiled cause Rossi has never finished the year lower than second.
Goose, Apr 28 2005, 09:30 PMFor the start of his 3rd year Nicky is doing just fine, 1st year two podiums, two crashes and 5th in points and rookie of the year.
Second year two podiums, two crashes, one mechanical dnf out two races due to training injury and he still finished 8th in points.
Two races into this year a screw up cost him a legit second place then a 7th in crappy conditions at Estoril, 11th in points going into this weekend, he'll be fine.
Shit Doohan took six years to win his first title with about 4 guys of Rossi's ability...Schwantz, Lawson, Rainey, Gardner.
None of the above mentioned guys won a title in their first three years in GP.
Give the boy a chance, your all spoiled cause Rossi has never finished the year lower than second.
For the start of his 3rd year Nicky is doing just fine
AMEN, AMEN!
I am feeling impatient with Nicky too, but I think he's doing well. With how fickle the teams are, I'm getting worried that HRC might dump him if he doesn't get a win this season, or at least battle Rossi consistently.
I think his lack of results has something to do with his inexperience. One, with the tracks. He's only raced most of these tracks two times. His top competitors have spent their entire careers on them. Alot of them are pushing 200 races on them.
Sometimes I wonder if he's not the master of bike set-up. He never, ever complains about his bike (unlike Biaggi). Does he just take whatever they give him and learn how to ride it? That can't be it. He's always one of the fast guys in practice and rarely throws it down the road.
Someone said he's not smooth. He doesn't look fast or smooth to me either. His lap times amaze me, because he doesn't seem to carry the corner speed like Biaggi does. But I think with the Motogp bikes, corner speed is not the answer. These are relatively heavy, powerful bikes. I think to go fast the key is to be able to put the power down on the corner exits. I think that is where Nicky excels.
While a degree of smoothness is important, I don't think it is the final answer. There is nobody smoother than Biaggi (and it is beautiful to watch when he's on) , but Rossi will come flying into the corner, back wheel waving in the breeze, foot off the peg and pass him. I think what makes Rossi so great is his will to win and the talent to ride a bike to it's ragged edge and do whatever it takes to win, even when on an inferior bike.
I doubt that Nicky will ever match the raw talent of Rossi (nobody will), but I do think he has the right skills to ride the Motogp bikes at their limits, he just needs to learn the tracks better and get the right people on the team to set up the bikes to his riding style.
VFRBee, Apr 29 2005, 04:44 AMFor the start of his 3rd year Nicky is doing just fine
AMEN, AMEN!
I am feeling impatient with Nicky too, but I think he's doing well. With how fickle the teams are, I'm getting worried that HRC might dump him if he doesn't get a win this season, or at least battle Rossi consistently.
I think his lack of results has something to do with his inexperience. One, with the tracks. He's only raced most of these tracks two times. His top competitors have spent their entire careers on them. Alot of them are pushing 200 races on them.
Sometimes I wonder if he's not the master of bike set-up. He never, ever complains about his bike (unlike Biaggi). Does he just take whatever they give him and learn how to ride it? That can't be it. He's always one of the fast guys in practice and rarely throws it down the road.
Someone said he's not smooth. He doesn't look fast or smooth to me either. His lap times amaze me, because he doesn't seem to carry the corner speed like Biaggi does. But I think with the Motogp bikes, corner speed is not the answer. These are relatively heavy, powerful bikes. I think to go fast the key is to be able to put the power down on the corner exits. I think that is where Nicky excels.
While a degree of smoothness is important, I don't think it is the final answer. There is nobody smoother than Biaggi (and it is beautiful to watch when he's on) , but Rossi will come flying into the corner, back wheel waving in the breeze, foot off the peg and pass him. I think what makes Rossi so great is his will to win and the talent to ride a bike to it's ragged edge and do whatever it takes to win, even when on an inferior bike.
I doubt that Nicky will ever match the raw talent of Rossi (nobody will), but I do think he has the right skills to ride the Motogp bikes at their limits, he just needs to learn the tracks better and get the right people on the team to set up the bikes to his riding style.
Go Nicky! :wheel:
Beg your pardon, but IMO Biaggi is not as fast as Rossi. Period. He never had Rossi's pace, not in MotoGP, nor 500... and not even in 250, where they used to go smoother than now. Everybody knows the marketing side of Mad Max career, but at the end he didn't sustain that fame with titles. Last year, as Rossy said, was Biaggi's great opportunity to win the title. He had a Honda ( Camel-Pons Hondas share components with and are as fast as the official Repsols, that was one of the reasons why Vale left the team ) and Valentino was in his first year on, at the time, the slower Yamaha, which Rossi couldn't ride till 2004, and that was another big advantage for Max. Yes, I'm a Rossi fan, but I'm not blind and know that at the top, there are many fast pilots in MotoGP. The difference is that they are one step below him...
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 23 May 2005