Any Honda fanatics here that know Honda's motorcycle history really well?
On another site some of the car guys are claiming that Honda had VTEC on motorcycles before cars. (They say the first car with VTEC was in 1989)
I think this is utter BS, as far as I know there is just a CB400 VTEC in the japanese market and the VFR VTEC.
I have a bunch of Honda motorcycle books that talk about the models over the years and there is no mention of any other racebikes or anything that had VTEC, I am wondering if there were some obscure models in japan only that wouldn't have made it into any of the books. Most of the books seem to cover models that didn't come to the US though.
Those guys worship VTEC, they are all pissed at me for remarking that a lot of VFR owners are not so happy about it, and that VTEC is not necessarily the absolute best variable valve system in every way.
biggrin.gif
To each his own. Ride what you like!
Me; I like my Land Rocket ('01 VFR800Fi).
Not only does it "growl," but it "whines" too.
I like a motorcycle that isn't afraid to show both sides of it's emotions!
fing02.gif
Cheers,
Ron wheel.gif
Go here:
http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/vtec/p3.htmlIt looks like VTEC originally come from REV, which was used in the 1983 CBR400F.
It looks to me like VTEC and REV are basicially the same thing, Honda just renamed the technology at some point.
The VTEC systems in Honda cars operates differently than on the motorcycles. On the VFR, it is like an on / off switch at 7000 rpm. On the cars it is more like a rheostat I believe, varying valve operation over a range of rpm's. Someone correct me if this is wrong.
johnmark101, Jul 1 2005, 05:15 PMThe VTEC systems in Honda cars operates differently than on the motorcycles. On the VFR, it is like an on / off switch at 7000 rpm. On the cars it is more like a rheostat I believe, varying valve operation over a range of rpm's. Someone correct me if this is wrong.
You are right, VFR VTEC is a much simpler and abrupt system of adding two more valves at one preset RPM but in the cars it is a changing of valve timing with alternate cams. I can�t remember if all Honda Car VTEC systems always act at one preset RPM.
My 2002 Mazda Miata has VTEC (or whatever Mazda calls it) and compared to my 2004 VFR VTEC it is seamless, undetectable and maintenance free. I have tried the Honda VTEC on a Civic and it was also seamless, undetectable and maintenance free as compared to the VFR VTEC.
This is what I've been able to come up with. I'm no expert, so please correct me if you find something wrong. I was looking on howstuffworks.com and wikipedia.
Basically VTEC comes in multiple flavors. We're all familiar with the VTEC in the VFR. There is a definite change at the VTEC engagement point. This is identical to the REV system Honda used back in 1983.
In automotive engines, the DOHC-VTEC causes a definite change in engine performance. When the RPM reaches a certain point, a locking pin engages and a high-RPM cam takes over. From this point on, the values follow the high-RPM cam, which causes the values to open further and longer. This was the system first implemented in Honda's cars in 1989 and 1990.
Honda also applied this technology to SOHC engines. But instead of the abrupt engagement point that the DOHC-VTEC had, the SOHC-VTEC seemed to switch between cam profiles seemlessly. This is probability due to the fact that the power increases with the SOHC is not as great as with the DOHC. Only the intake values are effected by VTEC in the SOHC engine.
VTEC-E is another variation of VTEC. Instead of switching to higher profile cams at higher RPMs, VTEC-E keeps an intake value closed at low RPMs to maximize fuel economy. The goal of VTEC is economy (hence the E) and not performance.
Honda also has a 3-stage VTEC, which combines VTEC-E and SOHC-VTEC.
I know a lot of the details of how the various systems work, I was mostly just looking for info on motorcycles other then the VFR and CB400.
The VFR uses a pin just like the cars, that is most likely why they used the name VTEC. (Aside from marketing) The REV system didn't use a locking pin AFAICT.
One of the big reasons it's seemless in the newer cars is the new "i-VTEC" adjusts the cam timing in addition to the lift, it definitely is more smooth then the older cars. The cam timing is a smooth adjustment, the lift adjustment is "on/off" just like the VFRs system.
Hmm, so would this be a correct observation?
REV uses a locking pin to engage a second set of rocker arms. When engaged, the engine switches from two values per cylinder to four values per cylinder.
VTEC in cars uses a locking pin to switch from a low-RPM cam to a high-RPM cam. Not only does the cam profile change, but addition values become operative.
VTEC in the VFR uses a locking pin to engage addition values, but the cam remains the same. This not similar to REV because the VFR doesn't use rocker arms.
The VTEC system in the VFR is not the same system employed in Honda's cars. Perhaps even calling the VFR's system "VTEC" is a stretch. The VFR's VTEC is similar to REV, not in design, but in purpose.
Going back the original problem benSv had, i think the people he was talking weren't being specific enough. The REV system did exsit before VTEC, but the systems were different. VTEC was first used in cars, not motorcycles. You might even argue the VFR doesn't have true VTEC since the cam profile never changes, but Honda attach the VTEC name to the VFR.
I told my friend I had a turbo in my VFR that kicks in after 7k rpm.He rode and believed me.When I told I was just kidding, he said WOW it sure felt like it with out the turbo blow-off "whislte" beer.gif
Funny, but the Honda site has a big error on it: there was no CBR400F in 1983. CB400F, yes, but not CBR.
Ciao,