I was never convinced on the argument for a big boost in displacement for the VFR.Why?Well Just try a ST 1300. A great bike for sure, but those bigger pistons just do not move with the same buttery smoothness as the 200 cc ones in the VFR. Not bad really,just looses something in the charisma department. Then the light when on. When the few journalist who have ridden the Rc211v comment on the experience, the uncanny smoothness is always mentioned.This from a V5 990 cc race bike with 230 or so horspower!There are those sub 200 cc pistons again.Now I don't think we need even 175 horpower, but I bet Honda could retune to get as a stump pulling 100 ft lbs of tourge and 150 HP. Now that would be fun.Adjustable ergonomics,a little better pasenger accomadations and keep the weight at least at current levels or maybe 20 pounds less,and I'll put down my deposit.
I don't know if this has been brought up before, but would Honda possibly be scared of pulling away interest from the 1000RR by giving a VFR that much power? The comfort factor is certainly there and moooore than enough power with those specs (100ft-lbs, 150HP). Perhaps they would be worried about loosing interest from potentia VFR owners in Europe that think the VFR already has plenty of power. Then again would anyone really complain about having more power? Probably not. Just not more weight.
vfrqqq, May 31 2006, 06:52 AMI don't know if this has been brought up before, but would Honda possibly be scared of pulling away interest from the 1000RR by giving a VFR that much power?
Yes, and that is why we won't see a displacement change for 07. Styling, suspension and maybe some motor layout and internal changes, but no difference in cc's.
Hannula, May 31 2006, 07:01 AMWhy would they make a single change for such a slow selling machine just one year after the FI update?
UMMMMMMM, maybe to boost sales. The FI update was just programming, the injectors were slightly different and the VTEC is going to stay around, so who is to say that they can't use the changes that they have made on the next bike. Honda knows that riders want the benefit of USD fully adjustable forks, sooner or later they will give it to us.
Hannula, May 31 2006, 01:01 PMWhy would they make a single change for such a slow selling machine just one year after the FI update?
actually, in a recent issue of two wheels only dealers have indicated that one of the quickest selling bikes is the VFR. honda discounts on 2005 models is encouraging brisk sales.
it's mostly a north american thing - big, bigger, faster - everyone else is content with the existing power and capabilities. they have a niche in the market, why change to meet demands that would require complete retooling - they have a loyal following of riders.
i can't imagine a power plant change until at least 2009 and a completely new generation and bike, just like the switch to VTEC.
To boost sales, a bunch of new customers and therefore a new VFR should be launched. If there was a new VFR coming out next year, they wouldn't have done any changes to the current model just for one year. Such short cycles doesn't seem to happen in the industry. This is my best guess, and I'm not expecting a new replacing model coming out before 08. However, it might be possible that a big brother for the current VFR would emerge, a replacement for the discontinued XX or something.
Edit: yep, I saw the artice, the sales peak was rather a sales push. To clean up the showrooms for the 06, they put plates on all the unsold 05 VFRs before they were actually sold, and then reduced the price hoping the customers would arrive. The plates thing was the trick since that made the VFR to emerge at the top of the sales charts before the bike business really started for the 06 season. The "miracle" happened during January and February, but in March, the normal state of things returned. It's all here:
I think what so many people in the US miss is that the bigger, more powerful, more displacement rush does not necessarily lead to a better overall bike for riders who ride daily or almost every day.
You can go buy a BUSA, ZX-14, etc.. today and yes they will do a 150+ mph freeway run better then a VFR but the thing is they are clearly not a better overall streetbike. Better sunny weekend jaunt bikes? Yah maybe, but not better commuter, traveling, everyday fun kind of bikes.
We are all b*tching and complaining about valve maintenance and so on and so forth but a lot of the other bikes on the market will easily make up the difference, even though they have less expensive engine maintenance they need it more often and they will run through tires & chains 2x as fast as the VFR, more then making up the difference IF the riders are piling on the miles. When you don't ride much of course our nasty valve checks and other things look bad.
chris2992, May 31 2006, 08:55 AMYes, and that is why we won't see a displacement change for 07. Styling, suspension and maybe some motor layout and internal changes, but no difference in cc's.
+1.gif On the styling issue... get rid of these oh so awful metal flake black and white viffers !!! Even if I'd had the money to buy a brand new one this year, I would've spent it on girsl and booze instead of a viffer on the account of the outdated, mid 70's, giggly-sparkly paintjob!!!
Last year's ZX-6R had an awesome titanium brush finish paintjob !!
The VFR sells very well everywhere besides the US it seems. The US wants cruisers or race replicas as motorcycles are toys for 95%+ of US motorcyclists; practicality is not a major buying criteria.
I would be very happy with some upgraded suspension, removal of VTec (unlikely) and shave a few pounds.
I wouldn't mind seeing a "R" model next to the unchanged standard VFR. A VFR-R with all the needed suspension upgrades, 1000cc V-4 or V-5 and that's about it. Or call it a RVF. tongue.gif
On the other side, I'm very happy with my non-surging, non-vtec transition issue, 36,000 mile 02 Vtec VFR! I've done all the suspension upgrades and this thing will do everything I want it too and well. No reason to up-grade IMO. I would rather see Sport tires that work like PPowers, but last over 5000 miles for me. I've spent over $3600 keeping tires on this thing! blink.gif
If there was a new VFR coming out next year, they wouldn't have done any changes to the current model just for one year. Such short cycles doesn't seem to happen in the industry.
5th Gens were only around for 4 years. And there were slight variations between the 98-99 and the 00-01 and the next year the 6th gen came out. I think it's entirely possible that they come out with a 7th Gen next year.
The horse is long dead, but the beating continues...
Kr0nus, May 31 2006, 02:56 PM5th Gens were only around for 4 years. And there were slight variations between the 98-99 and the 00-01 and the next year the 6th gen came out. I think it's entirely possible that they come out with a 7th Gen next year.
+1.gif
There were minor variations between the 94-95 and 96-97, also.
It was not a really a big deal to make the changes Honda made for the '06: 1a. Add clear plastic pellets instead of amber ones into the mold hoppers for turn signals. That is, if Honda makes them. Otherwise, they call Stanley and tell them to do it. 1b. Use amber light bulbs instead. 2. ECU's need to be flashed anyway. Now they get a slightly different program. 4. Throw extra parts in the paint racks 5. Put different color master cylinders 6. etc.
Car companies do similar things before the end of a model. They make slight variations in lighting or option groups to jazz it up and milk a little more sales from the model. This helps offset the real costs in retooling, like body panels. Honda is famous for this, with changing headlights and taillights for the last year or two of a model.
Kr0nus, May 31 2006, 10:56 AM5th Gens were only around for 4 years. And there were slight variations between the 98-99 and the 00-01 and the next year the 6th gen came out. I think it's entirely possible that they come out with a 7th Gen next year.
+1.gif too.
The current VFR is now being "challenged" by other bikes where in the past it was really in a class of it's own. Honda will need to react to this if it wants the VFR to remain the "best all arounder".
According to an older sales guy at a Honda dealership here in the Bay Area, a V-5 version of the VFR is coming in 2007 to replace the XX/VFR models as a single bike.
This was said to me as I sat on the 2006 in the showroom - so either he's (a) a bad salesman or ( cool.gif figured me as someone that would come back for an '07.
Again, according to him, the info came from a Honda employee in Southern California.
I dunno...I'm mostly happy with my '04. Don't love the VTEC changeover, but don't hate it and the Asphalt black always gets positive attention.
PorradaVFR, May 31 2006, 02:40 PMAccording to an older sales guy at a Honda dealership here in the Bay Area, a V-5 version of the VFR is coming in 2007 to replace the XX/VFR models as a single bike.
That's been the rumor for the last couple of years.....the V5 VFR/Blackbird??
There were even "renderings" in numerous moto mags of this future bike......might still be some of those threads archived on VFRD.
Can we imagine the reasons for and against a V5 introduction from Honda's point of view?
Against: 1. Inertia 2. Huge potential for the VFR VTEC concept 3. It orphans the VFR VTEC, unless the engine moves over to a renewed Magna...
For: 1. Honda, the motor company, has a well researched, extensively developed, thoroughly tested V5 motorcycle engine product without a home. Does anyone really believe that it will be down sized to an 800? 2. Honda, the motorcycle industry leader, had it's MaximumSport entry - the Blackbird - soundly eclipsed by Suzuki and Kawasaki and adding insult to injury, gasp, BMW! 3. Ditto, the SportTouring class. I don't seem to see a lot of Sport-touring articles that even speak of the VFR amongst the Triumphs, Yamahas, and BMWs. 4. Honda has always been the technological leader with the gee-whiz features. Unfortunately, the VTEC hasn't resulted in the planned sales numbers - any where. What would a V5 do?
There are more points, I'm sure. Now keep in mind the decisions affecting the 2007 model year were certainly made about a year ago. What was Honda thinking then?
My point is that 2007 is going to be an interesting year for Honda. We may be premature in ruling out the V5.
And Honda is supposed to be starting another one of it's 3 year "big push" cycles starting in '07...........................it should prove interesting fing02.gif
Kosh, Jun 1 2006, 05:44 PMWith the change to 800cc's for the 2007 MotoGP season, they'll yank the lights off of the VFR and slap them on the RVC and race the VFR.
Typical Honda efficiency and kills 2 birds with 1 stone.
benSV, May 31 2006, 02:27 PMYou can go buy a BUSA, ZX-14, etc.. today and yes they will do a 150+ mph freeway run better then a VFR but the thing is they are clearly not a better overall streetbike.� Better sunny weekend jaunt bikes?� Yah maybe, but not better commuter, traveling, everyday fun kind of bikes.
In what way are the BUSA, ZX-14, etc clearly inferior overall streetbikes?
Chumly, Jun 1 2006, 10:52 PMIn what way are the BUSA, ZX-14, etc clearly inferior overall streetbikes?
Reading comprehension? tongue.gif
He did not say the eyeabuser and alien (ZX-14) were clearly inferior. He said they were not clearly superior streetbikes. No mention of inferiority was made. biggrin.gif
BenSV: �they are clearly not a better overall streetbike� BenSV �not better commuter, traveling, everyday fun kind of bikes�.
Thus if they are clearly �not better� then they must be not as good unless BenSV had said they were equal which 1. he clearly did not 2. I doubt anyone would try and make that argument given it�s obvious weaknesses
Go ahead make the claim that BenSV inferred they were equal. Further when you accuse me of �Reading comprehension� I suggest you review the tenets of logic and reason firstly, as your assertion is demonstrably without merit and shows only your inadequate �Reading comprehension�.
From the reviews I have read, it�s as easy to ride as any other larger sport tourer when the revs are below 5,000 and in the lower gears, the reason is Kawi programmed the ECU to keep the engine docile under those conditions. Parking lots would be no harder than any other larger sporty machine and you don�t have to worry about massive power.
At lower speeds in lower gears it�s a pussy.
End of thread · 30 posts recoveredWayback Machine snapshot 19 Oct 2006